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Perhaps they will pay them to not produce them?
Why doesn't GM just tell all of of it's workers, your getting a 50% paycut effective immediately, and if you don't accept it, your fired!
Simple as that.
UAW won't like that? Too bad. GM should tell the UAW to go to hell, and if you don't like the 50% paycut, quit or be fired!, and if you don't like that, then sue us.
There won't be much in the pockets of GM to sue for anyway! I think GM should make a decision to not honor their contracts with the UAW. It should be survival mode right now, and I'm sure GM has a few lawyers on the payroll that could make any legal action take forever, and hence, be inconsequential at least for a couple years, and if they lose, then they go bankrupt, but at least they'd be a viable company for 1 to 2 years, whereas currently they haven't been viable in decades, and won't be in the foreseeable future.
I do see that the plug in Prius will get 65 mpg (assuming a full charge at start of test) while the Volt gets over 100 per the proposed epa testing.
So if the Volt got the same size battery as the plug in Prius (coming late 2009 for fleet buyers/Li-Ion) what would the vehicle cost differential be. I would assume they would both have the same initial no gas range. What components are in the Volt that are not in the Prius and vice versa?
GM had their golden opportunity to do that in 2007. They were bleeding red ink by the tanker load. Yet they let the UAW off with screwing the new employees that they hoped to replace the older ones with. Wagoner has no business running GM. The board is to blame. It is their responsibility. The stockholders should revolt. Though they are probably screwed for hanging in after GM buckled in the 2007 strike. Looking back over the last decade of losing market share and money. GM failed in 1998 to stem the tide. They could have just moved all the plants that were on strike to Mexico. That would have kept a lot of illegals from coming up and helped Mexico out of their situation.
They could tell the retirees you are on your own for health care. The costs are prohibitive. If you are too young for medicare, get a job with health care. I know several pensioners under 65 that are paying $800+ per month for health care. Just a fact of life.
OK, so the UAW goes on strike and GM goes out of business anyway. The UAW old liners do not see much upside in any scenario so they may just strike. Not exactly a low risk scenario. They are better off taking buyouts if they feel their time is numbered.
I don't see that as inevitable.
I have a feeling a lot of UAW members don't see eye-to-eye with the old geezers that are the UAW old liners.
If GM doesn't offer buyouts, then the next best logical course of action is to take what GM offers you, which in my opinion should be 50% pay for 100% work from now on, and you get to keep your job for another year (at least to start). The other option is to go on strike, they go out of business or hire new labor from all the unemployed lines, and go on about their business.
Is the UAW really that together? I could see their members crossing into the enemy lines and switching sides.
Carsales.com Ltd, Australia's number one automotive classifieds company, announced the award after online car buyers voted for their favourite vehicles using one of its websites.
Carsale's editor in chief, Mike Sinclair said the awards were the only popular poll where car buyers determined the awards themselves.
"These awards are a true indication of the cars that really make the grade on car buyers' shopping lists," Mr Sinclair said.
"This is the ultimate popularity contest so for Commodore to take this award away for the sixth consecutive year shows that the remar kable love affair between Australian drivers and Holden's signature large car just goes on and on."
U.S. auto sales in January likely stayed at quarter-century lows for the fourth straight month, as stable demand at dealerships couldn't make up for plunging deliveries to fleets.
Analysts surveyed by Automotive News projected a January seasonally adjusted annual sales rate of 10 million to 10.6 million cars and light trucks. General Motors forecasts a figure below 10 million, which would be the lowest since August 1982.
North American production levels that were two-thirds lower than last year's may trigger a 60 percent decline in fleet sales compared with a year earlier, said George Pipas, Ford Motor Co.'s sales analyst
At best, the sales rate will be around 10.3 million, Pipas said. The retail rate will be in line with recent months -- about 8.3 million units. Sliding fleet sales "most likely" will drag demand below a 10 million annual rate, he said.
A rate below 10 million would crush any hope that demand hit bottom in November, when seasonally adjusted sales fell to a 26-year low of 10.3 million units. The figure rose to 10.4 million in December.
"I wouldn't expect to see the fleet business come back necessarily in February or March," Ford's Pipas said.
In contrast, retail sales have stabilized and may rise in coming months, analysts say. Edmunds.com says January purchase intent rose 13 percent from December. Last week, the Conference Board reported its highest monthly purchase intent data since April.
The figures reflect pent-up demand, said Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of Edmunds.com
hmm, guess we will have to see who is more conservative with their SAAR.
GM Reports 129,227 Deliveries in January
* New products and GMAC financing help stabilize retail share above 21 percent for the second consecutive month
* Cars and crossovers were 65 percent of GM retail vehicles sold
* “Presidents Day Sale” begins with 0 percent APR or bonus cash offers on select vehicles for qualified buyers
DETROIT – Driven by an 80 percent reduction in fleet sales, General Motors dealers in the United States delivered 129,227 vehicles in January, down 49 percent compared with a year ago. Retail sales were off 38 percent, but retail market share held steady compared with December. GM’s retail share performance was assisted by reduced-rate APR financing capacity through GMAC and a GM loyalty cash offer. GM January total car sales of 43,943 were off 58 percent and total truck sales (including crossovers) of 85,284 were down 42 percent compared with a year ago. Additionally, retail sales for GM cars and crossovers combined were about 65 percent of sales mix in the month.
Truck sales were not down as far as car but probably due to fleet being primarily cars.
The 38% drop in retail matches Toyotas 35% and probably the industry average.
What is amazing is the production drop in January:
In January, GM North America produced 65,000 vehicles (6,000 cars and 59,000 trucks). This is down 232,000 vehicles or 78 percent compared with January 2008 when the region produced 297,000 vehicles (106,000 cars and 191,000 trucks).
I'm not following you here - are you asking if people think the plug-in Prius will cost $40K as it is anticipated that the Volt will?
And is the 2010 Prius plug-in Li-Ion, or will it initially be NiMH like the non-plug-in version is now?
I am assuming that it is the cost of the Li-Ion battery packs that is pushing the Volt price up so high, and I am wondering if GM ever considered at least launching the model at more like $30K with a NiMH battery.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Regards,
OW
What are the cost of the Toyota hybrid/trans system?
The Prius has 2 electric motor/generators and a couple inverters.
The Volt engine just charges the battery through a generator. The battery runs some kind of electric motor. Which of these 2 systems is cheaper?
The plug in Prius is supposed to get Li-ion.
Which brings up another question: how fast will the plug-in Prius be programmed to go (with medium throttle) before the gas engine kicks in? My guess would be, not much faster than now, since it has only gained about 15 mpg. And now it can only go what, 35-40 mph before the gas engine takes over?
If the gas engine in the Volt is only to charge the batteries and is never connected to the drive wheels, why not have a smaller engine? Does it need to be so big? Some little 1L 60 hp thing would suffice, would it not?
If Toyota is planning on debuting a plug-in Prius with a Li-Ion battery and a $40K price tag, I think they will have as few takers as I fear Chevy will have with the Volt. The price is a killer on both of these.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
During GM's monthly sales call today, Mike DiGiovanni, GM's executive director of global market and industry analysis, said an estimated 790,000 vehicles were sold in China in January.
Total U.S. sales in January were about 668,000, DiGiovanni estimated. Automotive News estimates that 656,881 vehicles were sold in January.
"If you want to put this industry in perspective," DiGiovanni said, "it's the lowest January in terms of unit sales since January 1963."
GM's January sales were down 49 percent from a year ago.
"This is the first time in history that China has passed the U.S. in monthly sales," DiGiovanni said. "We are estimating that China is going to come in at 10.7 million seasonally adjusted annual rate in January, about 790,000 units. The U.S. industry, we estimate, at about 668,000 units or about 9.8 million SAAR."
Actual sales figures from China are not yet available.
I saw a 9.53 MM SAAR also.
Regards,
Ow
At one time it was going to be smaller but I think they used an existing powertrain so they can use a volume motor (Cruze engine). Once the volumes are up and we have smaller vehicles (Beat) they will probably use a smaller engine.
With the new CAFE requirements we may need the higher MPG Volt/Prius to offset the work trucks that will be needed. So maybe they lower the price of the high MPG electrics and raise the price of the larger vehicles?
I think though by 2013 we will see big drops in pricing of the Li-ion powered vehicles.
The proposal, championed by the National Automobile Dealers Association, was added to an economic stimulus bill under debate in the Senate. The vote was 71-26.
The provision was not in a House-passed version of the more than $800 billion package of spending increases and tax cuts.
A conference committee will decide whether the provision stays in. The bill is a top priority of President Barack Obama.
If the measure passes, taxes on auto loans will be deductible for the first time since 1986.
The provision on deductibility of loan interest is the first significant measure aimed at getting consumers back into showrooms and buying vehicles to get action from Congress. NADA says the measure will save consumers about $1,500 on a $25,000 vehicle.
Some experts have criticized the provision for not having enough up-front punch. Too many worried would-be buyers aren't thinking ahead to cutting future tax bills, they argue.
But the measure is a significant incentive and NADA had to focus on what could be accomplished politically, an organization spokesman said today. ...
I don't see that as inevitable.
Agreed. There is a lot of value at GM and even if the current company bellies up, somebody is going to buy or acquire the valuable parts. Even if that is 33% of the current company, the new company would have competitive products and would be able to build from that point without all of the baggage of 12 divisions/dealers/UAW/etc.
At one time it was going to be smaller but I think they used an existing powertrain so they can use a volume motor (Cruze engine).
The other thing to remember is that if the only power to move the Volt is electric, and the engine charges the batteries, then the most power you can have in the car is a function of the engine power. There is no free lunch; in fact, there are charging losses in efficiency. So if you are driving the Volt cross country at 85mph for 100's of miles at a time, the engine is basically providing enough energy to move the car at 85mpg PLUS the losses in efficiency due to the charging and electrical cycles of the drivetrain system. So a weaker engine might mean that once the batteries are run down you would not be able to go very fast or accelerate very quickly.
This is not good news for a corporation that is trying to prove viability in the next 1-2 months. This means just like Dec. GM is losing billions of $'s/month.
While Ford, GM, and Chrysler are the ultimate optimists, always dreaming they have this great possibility or these 1 or 2 shining stars in their product line, they continue to lose $.
It odes not matter what they have plans for, it does not matter what awards they win, it does not matter what great cars they have for 2011, the bottom line is "Are they making $?" $ $ $ $. Profit, profit, profit.
If they aren't making profit, the D3's last chance - government is going to walk away from them. The American public is not going to put billions of $/month into these companies for the next few years, while the rest of the economy gets little comparatively.
GM and Chrysler are going to learn that the world does not revolve around them, and we'd be very happy to be rid of their whining family issues.
No one is making much if any profit at this level of sales. GM needs to show that the restructuring will make them profitable per the restructuring agreement:
The net effect of the operational and financial restructuring elements contained in the Plan will be a company that is profitable (at an EBIT basis) in a U.S. industry with annual sales between 12.5-13 million units. Given the very significant operating leverage in the automobile business, this means a restructured GM would realize healthy profits in a more typical 16 million unit year and be able to self-fund its operations long-term.
This is what the administration agreed to and GM will show a plan with progress toward that level of profit.
Regards,
OW
Auto dealers are seeking at least $10 billion from the $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund, and suppliers are requesting several billion before the end of the month to prevent a spate of collapses.
"Today, we're in the vortex of the economic downturn," said Ford Motor Co. economist Emily Kolinski Morris, as automakers announced a 37 percent plunge in car and light truck sales last month compared with January 2008.
At January's anemic selling rate of 9.57 million vehicles, the lowest level since June 1982, the U.S. auto market is no longer the world's biggest, said General Motors Corp. industry analyst Mike DiGiovanni. "This is the first time China has passed the U.S. in monthly sales," he said.
In addition to depressed economic conditions and tight credit, tumbling demand from fleet buyers such as rental car companies contributed to the collapse in sales, which were 27 percent below December levels, according to Autodata Corp.
"We estimate industry fleet sales were down 65 percent or more from a year ago," said Ford market analyst George Pipas. The drop reflects declines in business and holiday travel as consumers and companies rein in spending.
The collapse in fleet sales hit Detroit's Big Three the hardest. Their combined market share shrank to 43.2 percent from 52.1 percent a year earlier, after GM's sales plunged 48.9 percent, Chrysler LLC's slid 54.8 percent, and Ford's fell 40.3 percent.
Asian brands took 49.5 percent of the U.S. market, up from 41.8 percent in January 2008.
Sales might have bottomed but Market Share for the US continues to slide.
Regards,
OW
According to Ford, it has wiped $1.2 billion in warranty costs off its books over the last two years. The improvements come even as Ford has upped its warranty coverage from 3 years/36,000 miles to 5 years/60,000 miles.
$1.2B SAVED on Warranty Costs
What's up GM? Put your money where your mouth is.
Regards,
OW
I believe that is what GM said, not what Congress wrote. Anyway that was a different administration and Congress, and they make the rules, and can rewrite anything they want.
GM is going to have to go in there and prove they can make a profit at the current sales - in the 9-10M range. Conditions are changing very fast and what someone predicts in Nov. or Dec. is basically worthless.
GM needs to make profit; the American public is not going to subsidize GM for 1-2 years, as this economy has not bottomed. You can be as optimistic as you want but the effect of many of these millions of job cuts has not really started. These cuts are just starting and people still have money,; when they start running out of unemployment later this year, then you'll start to have real economic problems.
There is nothing that has been to stop the global economy from heading towards a Depression. The government is too far in debt, to put the sort of stimulus together to stop this slide.
What's up GM? Put your money where your mouth is.
Well that is easy enough. GM improved their warranty outlays 2 years ago. Ford is now just catching up.
Perhaps the most telling statistic in this quality story is that we have reduced our total warranty repairs by 40 percent over the last five years.
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gm- news/viewmediaspeechdetail.do?domain=4&docid=28444
Sales might have bottomed but Market Share for the US continues to slide.
Retail sales for GM remained steady for January from December/November. What fell is fleet sales due to the plants being shut down and not building the ordered fleet cars.
And GM is now working the restructuring plan to the worst case level of 10.5 million sales which looks to be where we will be for this year. 9.6 SAAR with a 90% drop in fleet means that with fleet the SAAR would have been well over 10.5 million. And if sales do start to rise it will be over 11 million for year.
We will see but I do not think anyone with a brain in government (now we are in trouble) expects anyone to make profits this year. Not gonna happen. GM needs to show that they have restructured/cut cost enough to be viable in the future. You can disagree but that is what the Bush administration and almost the congress agreed to and I really doubt the Obama administration will expect more.
If we do go into a full depression and the $3 trillion in stimulus packages do not work we will see more than GM go out of business.
General Motors' new mini car, which is due to be rolled out by year-end (in India), will be based on the Beat concept showcased at the New York Auto Show two years ago. The car will sport a small diesel and petrol engine, and be the third-small car in GM's stable, after Spark and Aveo U-VA.
It will be a premium mini and take on the likes of Skoda Fabia and Honda Jazz. GM will invest $50-60 million (Rs 200-250 crore) in tooling and equipment for the model.
Speaking to ET, GM India president and MD Karl Slym said: "The new mini car will rollout of our Talegaon plant near Pune. With this new factory, our capacity will exceed domestic needs for the first time. India will be the export hub for the new mini car."
The mini car will be locally made and not kit-assembled. "We are moving away from the completely knocked-down kit assembly, with this product. The engine and transmission will come from our new powertrain facility and the new stamping plant in Talegaon will cater to this project," Mr Slym said.
GMI's new powertrain (engine and transmission) plant, in which it invested $200 million (around Rs 800 crore), will crank out small petrol and diesel engines in the 1-1.5 litre range.
"This will go into our vehicles, including the new mini car, and also cater to export allocations," said Mr Slym.
"At this current Hummer sales rate, we'll run out of Hummers just when our franchise agreement expires, October 2010," Williamson says. "It's going to be very difficult to talk us into ordering any Hummers at all."
So there is some kind of franchise agreement expiration date? Perhaps that is a way out of paying off the Hummer dealers?
Of GM's 62,000 hourly workers, Sapienza said 22,000 are eligible to retire.
I doubt many will take the GM offer. Much better financially to stick it out and hope for the best. If GM does go under they only turned down a car and $20k.
Fredline also said workers who already earn the lower-tiered wage will not be eligible for the offers.
Anybody know how many are new hires?
If General Motors has anything to say about it, San Francisco and Washington, D.C. will be the first early adopter markets for its plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt. The company is currently working with the local municipalities to flesh out the details. The goal is to make tax incentives for purchasing electric cars and build an infrastructure that'll support them. San Francisco is already part of the way there since they, along with San Jose and Oakland, have already endorsed Better Place's $1 billion plan to put electric grids in the Bay Area. Of course, GM's deeds aren't exactly selfless -- after all, more markets mean more potential Volt customers -- but if this is what it takes to foster an eerily silent rush hour, we're all for it. [Via Yahoo!]
Despite the industrywide declines, auto company executives see signs of stabilization because most of the declines came in fleet sales to rental car customers and commercial customers — not individual consumers in dealer showrooms, known as retail sales.
“It’s the fourth month in a row we have seen stability,” Mike DiGiovanni, GM’s executive director of global market and industry analysis, said of retail sales.
GM, for example, lost 4.5 percentage points of U.S. market share. Its retail sales declined 38%. But its fleet sales declined even more, 80%.
Fleet sales also declined 80% at Chrysler and 65% at Ford.
“The retail market was pretty steady over the last three months of 2008 and it appeared to remain so in January,” added George Pipas, Ford’s sales analyst. “Lower fleet sales account for almost all of the decline from December to January.”
Italy's automotive sector is eagerly awaiting an economic stimulus package. Italian new-car sales are expected to fall 17 percent this year, after a 13 percent drop in 2008. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne warned in January that 60,000 auto industry jobs could be at risk due to the economic crisis.
Italy's government promised that a major aid package for the auto industry will be issued in early February, but has said little about the sums involved or initiatives included.
So remember who the auto companies have to make their case to: Other money losers.
Are there still people out there whose mouths are watering for more layoffs in the US?
If we should close down the auto companies for losing money, we should also eliminate enough teachers in each state to balance the individual state budgets. In CA, that would be 50 billion dollars worth of teachers, right? Teachers make $33.33 an hour, about 20% more than UAW workers.
I'm glad someone is optimistic about car sales. i see nothing positive when I read every day that more companies are laying people off.
Viable to most financial people means "to make a profit". And the profit needs to cover the repayment of the loans. So if GM thinks the future is 2 years from now, and the Congress is considering the future is months, then GM and Chrysler are in for a rude surprise.
that is what the Bush administration and almost the congress agreed to and I really doubt the Obama administration will expect more.
Very, very reluctantly they approved. You will find their is no political will to pass anymore loans to the D3. The economy has changed greatly, and with hundreds of thousands being laid off each month there is going to be no public sympathy to favor the automakers.
And if GM is not going to turn to profit this year, where are they going to get the money to continue into 2010. More loans? How much more do you think the government should give them?
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Just do not use the radio or air!! That is why the extender is there. Plain electrics are a ways off yet.
What the 40% reduction means overall GM warranty cost from year 2001 to year 2006.
2018 430i Gran Coupe