All-New 2009 Toyota Matrix

cklho818cklho818 Member Posts: 29
edited May 2014 in Toyota
Toyota will be debuting their 2009 all-new Corolla and Matrix in Las Vegas at this Halloween.

Wants to see if anybody has any news whatsoever on this. Can't wait anymore!!!



  • cklho818cklho818 Member Posts: 29
    I think the Matrix and Corolla will not very close to these 2 if not entirely identical.



    Sorry can't make the girl disappear!
  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    The red car is a Yaris Sedan (Hatchback style).
  • cklho818cklho818 Member Posts: 29
    Sorry, more like the Auris not the Vitz. My bad!

    link title
  • nilknilk Member Posts: 3
    Toyota has posted some info on their website:

    It's going to have a 2.4L w/ available AWD.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Here is a better pic:

  • nilknilk Member Posts: 3
    Looks like its also going to have an 1.8L as an option. That's good for those of concerned with fuel economy.

    Some more info here:
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Wow, fuel economy isn't that great no matter what engine you choose. They could have done better.
    A V6 Accord gets the same or better MPG than the XRS and close to the mileage of even the base model.
  • tdiaz339tdiaz339 Member Posts: 10
    Wow, what a disgrace. Supposedly, Toyota took an "extra" year to redesign the Corolla. Sill looks boring to me. And no 2-door coupe?? Heading over later this weekend to get my.....2008 Honda Civic COUPE 2-door EX. If that don't work, then there's always the '08 Ford Focus 2-door COUPE. If that don't work either, there's the '08 Saturn Astra 2-door HATCH. If that don't work, there's the '08 Chevrolet Cobalt 2-door COUPE (and Pontiac G5 coupe).
    Corolla is not on my list due to lack of a sporty coupe.
    Toyota is missing a major market here.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    No coupe was ever talked about. That isn't surprising at all.
    People can buy a Civic coupe and it doesn't have anything to do with the Matrix.
  • tdiaz339tdiaz339 Member Posts: 10
    Supposedly Automobile mag indicated that in 2012, a Corolla coupe is supposed to make a comeback.. I am tired of waiting, ever since the Paseo was killed.

    Corolla/Matrix, same thing to me.

    And what about this "Blade?" I thought Matrix was going to be called Blade.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I'm pretty sure there is ALSO going to be a Blade, to be released next year. Don't give up on that one yet.

    I agree - the new Matrix is so evolutionary it really doesn't move the desirability quotient up much. I was getting set to be a little sad that my Matrix becomes the "old" model in a few months, but aftr seeing this I won't be sad. I think mine, purchased with the routine discounts there have been the last two years on Matrix, is a better deal than the new one which will probably sell closer to sticker for a while.

    The looks are a little better, apart from that what's to like? I am sure it will gain a couple hundred pounds, so with the base engine it will actually be SLOWER while getting worse fuel economy. There's a win-win, huh?! :-)

    And the 2.4 only comes with an automatic, so it will probably have roughly the acceleration of the 4-cylinder Camry, a model with the same powertrain. There's a thrill ride.

    And you still have to go for the 'S' trim to get the full power package? That's weak, and bodes ill for Corolla. But what really stinks is that the XRS used to be a true sport model. With the '09 it will just be the loaded model.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    Does all matrix get double-wishbone rear suspension or just the XRS?
  • aneeshaneesh Member Posts: 43
    Matrix has a passing resemblance to Saturn Astra........and the Corolla is just not pretty!!!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Toyota will be debuting their 2009 all-new Corolla and Matrix in Las Vegas at this Halloween.

    Are you sure it is ALL NEW?
    There isn't ONE part in common from the 2008 to the 2009?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Didn't see the double wishbones mentioned anywhere - are you sure the XRS will have them? Where did you see that? That would be one genuine improvement from the old XRS.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    I didn't see it, but heard it through this video :D
  • nilknilk Member Posts: 3
    The fuel economy is the same as the previous generation. My concern was they were going to offer only the 2.4L, like was done with the Scion xB. The Matrix w/ 1.8L isn't class-leading in fuel economy, but at least they are still offering it.

    But yeah, I wish they could have at least matched the mileage of the current generation Corolla.
  • longleglongleg Member Posts: 9
    Has anyone been able to tell from pictures or other sources if the rear liftgate will still have the separate liftglass? It isn't clear from the photos I've seen, but it doesn't appear to be there.

    I'm also curious what they mean by "roof rack accommodations" on the Toyota website.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I heard it was getting axed, before any of the recent announcements. Seems surprising though, given that it is pretty popular and has just been ADDED to the Highlander, so it seems they know people like it.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Is the fuel tank larger on the AWD, same size or smaller as it was on the last gen Matrix?
  • irismgirismg Member Posts: 345
    In my opinion, that front end is ugly beyond belief. Made an unattractive car even worse. :(
  • longleglongleg Member Posts: 9
    I think I can answer my own question: no liftglass. Pontiac's website has a preview of the '09 Vibe and clearly shows the inside of the hatchback with no hinges or struts on the rear window. Given that the Matrix has essentially the same body, it seems unlikely that the Matrix would retain the liftglass when the Vibe does not.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I thought they parted ways after 2005, each taking over the evolution of their own version of the platform? If so, then stuff like the liftglass could easily be different between Vibe and Matrix. And given the fact that Toyota has just introduced liftglass on the Highlander, I can't imagine they would remove it from the Matrix for the redo.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    NUMMI is still a partnership. Matrix and Vibe are still twins.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Matrix was never built at NUMMI. Matrix and Vibe are not currently twins, as Toyota has done some minor mechanical upgrades and of course has changed the interior and the exterior cosmetically.

    To rephrase the question I posed: did GM and Toyota collaborate on the second generations of thse two models? I had not heard that, so I wonder. GM has proposed offering a Vibe GT with the 260 hp turbo four from the Sky/Solstice and other GM models. There is certainly no such thing proposed for the Matrix (the XRS trim will get the larger NA engine from the Camry).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Matrix was never built at NUMMI. Matrix and Vibe are not currently twins, as Toyota has done some minor mechanical upgrades and of course has changed the interior and the exterior cosmetically.

    Corolla, Tacoma and Vibe are all produced at the Fremont NUMMI plant.
    Two of the vehicles coming down the lines are Toyota's with the Vibe is essentially a Toyota in GM clothing.

    What mechanical upgrades does the Matrix have that the Vibe does not? Minor or major?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Well of course, there was the TSB and later production change to the twilight sensor in the Matrix that the Vibe never got (headlights flicking on and off every time you went under a tree, it was really annoying in the early Matrixes, thank goodness Toyota offered a fix).

    Toyota updated the internals of the manual transmissions in 2005 after there began to be reports of premature failures. Indeed, some of that is detailed in the transmission woes thread right here. Nuttin' for the Vibe.

    At the auto show yesterday there were both '09 Matrix and Vibe on display, both roped off so one could not get too close. But the glass is different, as is the shape, between the two, and that's just gleaned from a quick once-over on opposite sides of the show. I think the twins have been separated for good.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • peterraopeterrao Member Posts: 4
    Worst looking car thus far!!
  • hbcorollahbcorolla Member Posts: 6
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Matrix. Not Corolla.
  • lkc037lkc037 Member Posts: 1
    The newspaper quoted the '09 Matrix at $26,000-$30,000.
  • zombietom3zombietom3 Member Posts: 74
    It seems to me if they were going to make the model different enough to justify a quantum leap in pricing then they would have to call it a new model name and not present it as just a new Matrix.
  • caliberchiccaliberchic Member Posts: 402
    Wow! :surprise:
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Vibe less than $16K

    Pontiac Vibe will have lower price for 2009, I'd be very surprised if the Matix did not also have a lower price.
  • zombietom3zombietom3 Member Posts: 74
    That sounds far more likely than the huge increase mentioned earlier. I find it hard to believe any car maker would introduce a totally new model at a totally new price point using an old model name unless the name were being resurrected from retirement and had a lot of nostalgic market pull attached..
  • jefe47jefe47 Member Posts: 3
    i want to buy a matrix and can not decide between 08 and 09. i can't find out when the 09 is really coming out. can anybody help? thanks.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    The official date is February 15. I think you will see exactly ONE new Matrix (the '09) at dealers on that day, and if it gets sold the next day, you won't see another for a week.

    But by March, you should begin to see decent stock at dealers.

    There's not that much to distinguish between the old ('08) and the new ('09) unless you want the bigger engine or the AWD. In those cases you would need to wait for the '09. Apart from that, power is about the same, size is about the same, interior materials are about the same, and at any given price point features are about the same (except for standard ABS and 6 airbags on all models). With the discounts on the old model now, you could probably get an '08 with the airbags and ABS for the same price as you will be able to get a comparable '09 for, for the first few months of availability.

    And of course, there's a styling change, as minor as it have to decide which one you like the looks of more. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It's disappointing that gas mileage on the 2.4 is almost the same as the larger RAV4 and many much more powerful V6 sedans.
    Why does the 2.4 use so much gas for so little horsepower?
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    Not really a bad engine, the 2.4. It's just that the new Toyota 3.5 V-6 is so good.

    The 2.4 has been around for awhile now, so it's not the most modern 4 out there. I think the Nissan 2.5 is possibly a better engine overall, and the VW 2.0 Turbo is just amazing.

    I've really curious as to what Toyota has up its sleeve in the new 2.7L 4-cylinder coming in the new Venza.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It's not just the 2.4 engine, since the RAV4 with the same engine gets about the same mileage ratings despite being in a significantly large and heavier vehicle.
    The Camry also gets competitive mileage with this same engine.
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    Good point.

    Reference: the revised 2008 Ratings for the RAV4 with 2.4 Auto are 21 / 27 - both numbers down 3 mpg from 2007.

    Matrix 2.4 Auto are 21 / 29. I was surprised that the wheelbase of the Matrix is only 2.3" less, and that the weight is only 335 lb less. (Matrix gained 209 lbs in the re-do). Yet, the same City mileage for a 10% lighter car is kinda fishy. I'll bet that physics won't be cheated, and we'll see better real-world City mpg with the Matrix.

    I wonder if the higher stance on the RAV allows for a freer-breathing exhaust?

    The good news is we have the option of the 1.8 Auto; it's listed at 25 / 31 - 19% better City mileage, and nearly 15% Highway than RAV4. THe Manual numbers are 1 mpg better. This is the model I want to test drive for myself. I now have Highlander with the 2.4 Auto, 3516 lbs. and I'm hoping the Yamaha-built 1.8 is smoother than 2.4, and gives me equivalent (or better) performance with better mileage.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Where are you getting those numbers?

    Per Toyota's own website today, RAV4 AWD 2.4 (auto) is rated at 20/25 for 2008. Matrix AWD 2.4 (auto) is at 20/26. The '09 Matrix in its AWD trim only weighs about 100 pounds less than the RAV4 2.4 AWD, probably the main reason the numbers are so similar.

    What stinks is that all 2.4L versions of the Matrix get the 5-speed auto EXCEPT the AWD! What's that all about? The AWD only gets the 4-speed, which must detract from fuel economy.

    Another significant item to me is that the gas tank in the Matrix remains only 13.2 gallons, fine for the smaller engine with its higher mileage, but not so great for a 2.4L Matrix which will require fill-ups every 250-300 miles with that little gas capacity.

    Compare this to the Subaru Impreza, priced the same and making a point better in gas mileage (and an extra 10 hp), but with a 16 gallon tank for much improved range compared to Matrix.

    What's puzzling is that the Camry, with exactly the same 2.4L powertrain (and slightly better gas mileage) as the '09 Matrix, gets an 18.5-gallon gas tank, so clearly someone at Toyota acknowledges the need for a car with this fuel economy to have a bigger tank. Perhaps there's just no space under there to shoehorn it in?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    My numbers were from Toyota's website - for a FWD RAV4, not AWD. See link title

    Wanna know something even crazier? I just sat in two new 2009 Corollas - they are both listed for 27/35 mpg with the 1.8 Auto.

    I just checked, the Corolla final drive ratio for the 1.8 Auto is 4.130, and the Matrix is 4.312. And the Matrix is taller, so it'll have more drag at highway speeds. Toyota is positioning the new Matrix as a "Sport Coupe" look with a hatchback. They even try to disguise the rear doors be removing the 2007's side glass behind the rear doors. So, the diff ratio is numerically higher, so the Matrix will be quicker off the line, but get lower mileage. Your mileage may vary, though.

    I guess you just can't beat the physics of it, no matter what.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The 1.8 fuel efficiency is decent, but it only has 4 speeds with automatic, so you can count on high revs at 70 mph and the resultant annoying engine noise on highway drives.
    The Nissan Rogue is much, much larger and gets 22 MPG city vs 21 for the 2.4 liter Matrix..
  • 719b719b Member Posts: 216
    final drive ratio of the top gear will determine highway gas mileage, not the number of gears.
    another factor no one mentioned is the axle ratio. you'll have to know that also to make a fair comparison.
    this is only speculation, but from reading various forums here and other sites, the 4 speed auto is more durable than the 5 speed. i have read that the toyota 5 speed transmission has had some problems. this must explain why they are using the 4 speed for the awd matrix... it will stand up to more stress.
  • sacbasquesacbasque Member Posts: 1
    The new Corolla's are already on the dealer lots in my area. I have yet to see a new Matrix though. The web site for Toyota was saying that it should be Febuary. Visit your local dealer web site and go from there. Good luck!
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    Just stopped by the local dealer in Irvine. They had a dark gray S Auto, and I got a quick drive in it. It had the optional 215/45-17's. Impressions:

    - Roomy enough for this guy, 6"4" 260. Enough adjustment in the tilt/tele for me to lift off the gas and hit the brake without banging the back of the wheel with my knee. Seats above average comfort. Seat height relatively high - much higher than, say, and Altima. Getting out, my knees were above 90'. Big plus for me. Noticeably narrower than an xB, but OK.
    - Nice combination of ride and handling; just a tad rough for my taste, but considering the wheel/tire combo, I thought it was very good. Steering was very good. Brakes were very firm and linear.
    - A little too much road noise, again OK considering the 45 series tires.
    - Power was more than adequate. Merged onto the freeway without needing more than 3/4 throttle. (this is the 2.4L)
    - Impressively quiet ride. Very smooth engine. Less bouncy in this configuration than in the Scion xB.
    - Good rear-set room for two, or three small people. With Driver's seat ALL the way back, I sat behind it fine.
    - Very good cargo room. Seemed even larger than the fish-eye pictures showed. A nice, flat floor, with some additional storage underneath. Plenty wide, and even deeper than it is wide. Seats fold down true flat.
    - Nice dash layout. Sharp overall styling. Nose less pointy in person than in pictures. Overall, very sleek. Shapely enough for Gen Y, but classy enough for the over-50's too.
    - Well-placed mounts for roof rack for my bikes. Roof-height perfect for putting two bike up there.
    - Only negative - five speed auto shifting only so-so. Not nearly as crisp as my 4-speed auto in my 2.4L Highlander. Three distinct episodes of hunting between 2-3 upshift. (Maybe this brand-new trans needs to learn?) I had heard negative comments of 2005-2007 3.3L Highlander 5-speed auto, and went 2.4L 4-speed as a result and have been glad I did. Toyota Service reports that the 4-speed is very rugged.

    I originally wanted to try a XRS, but the one they'd had was gone. With choppy-riding 215/45-18's on the XRS, I'm more interested in seeing how comfortable the ride the Standard's tires would give.

    I left requesting a call when they got a 1.8L Auto in. I'll let y'all know what that's like as well.

    All in all, a very positive drive in a very modern ride.
  • rawdonrawdon Member Posts: 1
    Having brooded on the 09, I just bought the 08. I don't like the lower roof and the swept, solid rear pillars on the 09. Less vertical room and worse vision. Especially for our dogs--who wouldn't have been able to see to the right or left! Only thing I regret is not having an MP3 ready sound system.
  • ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    I thought about the same thing. But I need the tilt/tele steering wheel, so it's not an option.

    I got a $180 Sony CD player with an AUX / MP# input installed in my 2007 Highlander, and it's better than the factory MP3 in the 2008 Highlander. I'm sure you must have save lots more than that with the '08 vs. the '09. So splurge and go to Best Buy / Circuit City.

    I hope you and your dogs enjoy the new ride.
  • waltchanwaltchan Member Posts: 124
    Longo Toyota at El Monte, CA has 10 base Matrixs with the 1.8L automatic in stock right now. Why wait?
This discussion has been closed.