I had a day off today and I finally had the chance to drive my wife's red 08 Accord EX-L V6 on a longer trip.
I drove mostly on highway (mixed flat and hilly) for 80 miles x2 (back and forth) with her, and we did experience a little bit of vibration (or noise) at high speed (> 60 MPH, I could feel the vibration thru the steering wheel). The vibration occurred with the ECO light on, and I guess that it could be related to the 4- or 3-cylinder operations. It bugs me a little but my wife is OK with it.
The surging also happened. When I was driving on a 4-5 miles long of flat highway at 65 MPH, the ECO light was on (I assume that it was on 4-cylinder mode). Even with the ECO light on, the car surged again during that stretch of road (I assume that it went down to the 3-cyclinder mode). The car was fine when the ECO light was off (6-cylinder mode). We had all music turned off and both of us could experience that.
The surging happened on and off when I drove in the metro area (60 MPH, up and down some slopes). It was a 4-lane highway and I stayed on the second left lane. The ECO light came on and off when the surging happened. It was difficult to describe the surging but we could feel it. Again it bugs me a bit but my wife is OK with it.
I just want to share my experience because the vibration and surging happen in BOTH of my 08 V6 Accords. They are not something that made up by phantom or golfski or any other ones who have been loyal customers to Honda. I could deal with the vibration, but the surging bugs me a bit. OVERALL, I could still deal with the problems. My wife can feel them too but she is OK with the car (unless the engine or a wheel falls off). She is more easy going person than I am. Perhaps I am more of a type A and she is a type B person...
I will try to give my salesman a call this week and let him know about my experience ( I want to add an extra voice to your voices to Honda). Maybe he will let Honda know about this. I am "OK" with my cars at this moment (the V6 has much more power that the tiny Hybrid engine) that I don't want to waste my time to send my cars in for trouble shoot... I am not an expert on VCM but I believe that it was probably the problem and I think the car will run better if VCM can be deactivated. I would like to see Honda put a "VCM OFF" button in our vehicles in the near future.
"....As for the Accord w/ Navi cooment how did you learn about this and what was exactly said? "
I was specifically looking for an EX-L v6 with NAV in black/black and few dealers had it. I asked if they had any coming in and they said they do not have any EX-L V6's with NAV coming in for the next 3 months. Honda has restricted them. I don't know exactly what that means but that's exactly what one dealer told me. 5 other dealers told me they did not have any EX-L V6 NAV's coming in for the next three months but they did not say it was restricted and I didn't ask.
I work for a Honda dealer and have seen zero issues on the VCM. So like this user stated, some folks just have had no issues at the moment. Maybe with given time and looking into the problem more thoroughly Honda may take some action.
That is simply remarkable given the people here and on other forums having, at best, unpleasant experiences with it, AND it being commented on by reviewers. Perhaps people are being told by their dealers that it is "normal" and they are simply accepting that explanation?
It just hasn't been an issue. Nobody has come in complaining about it. So far no issues whatsoever with it. Honda has no bulletins or anything on it anywhere. So if your having an issue, take it to your Honda dealer and have them look into it.
I think we ALL really need to keep in mind that there is no reason to think that all V6 08 Accords are created equal.
It seems very likely that some cars exhibit issues with this technology whereas others do not. There are many possible reasons for that (including the perceptions of the driver but not limited to that by any means) - complicated electronics cannot always be quickly boiled down to black or white.
What everyone here needs to accept is that some owners are having problems they consider intolerable with this technology and others are not. This does not make ANY of the owners wrong.
What are the owners who are unhappy doing to get the problem resolved?
Guess I have just been lucky. Of the 14 new Hondas I have bought since 1981, I have only had to take one back to the dealer with a problem - the 1983 with automatic and lock up overdrive - the transmission was "hunting" and would not lock up. There was a TSB on that one.
That is why I have continued to buy Honda/Acura products - their reliability. Taking a car in to the dealer is a major production and pain in the ***. Our 1990 Acura Legend had 180,000 miles on it and had not seen a dealer's repair shop in 5 years. I have not taken my car in yet - the nearest dealer is NOT the one from which I purchased the car, so I anticipate that will be a problem too. With Honda service managers supposedly stating that they have had no complaints, and hondamatic commenting as he/she has, and others here expressing their opinions, maybe my car is normal and it is I that is the problem, although the comments by reviewers seem to bear out that the drivetrain behavior can be maddening. I have come to accept it as "normal" - though that does not mean it is acceptable to me. I merely caution others NOT to do what I did and buy on blind trust but to extensively test drive the car before buying it - they too may find the behavior of the VCM unacceptable, as the WSJ tester and I do. Have you driven one?
phantomv (post 571) asks about experiences with VCM. I've driven my 2008 EX-L V6 about 3500 miles, including a 1000-mile round-trip done mostly on cruise @ 65-70. Not a hint of surging or vibration. For smooth and powerful driving pleasure this 2008 even surpasses my two previous Honda V6 coupes, 2002 and 2007.
I just refer back to the WSJ tester, and not my own experiences, for his comments about the VCM's operation being "maddening behavior". There is either a great discrepancy in driver sensitivity to it, or the "seamlessness" of VCM from car to car, as Pat suggests.
I know if I was having these problems I would be beating Hondas doors off. For those of you having these problems with the VCM and there are quite a few and for more than one reviewer to mention it than I think there is a problem there that needs to be addressed. I would call Hondas customer service and get a report filed and follow that up with a visit to the dealer. I personally don't have a problem with mine but the VCM is not seamless but no way intrusive as far as I can tell with my car. I wonder if the green "eco" light didn't come on would this problem be as noticeable. I myself for one think there is something going on with the VCM but for me it doesn't take anything away from the car. I really think that everyone is experiencing this to some degree or another but there are some who are alot more sensitive about it. I think Honda will come up with a solution for this and smooth things out so we can all be happy, but in the meantime people on here need to get "proactive" and sound the alarms to Honda.
Ok, Ok so reading all of this VCM maddness...I was sure there were just a few impossible to please hypochondriacs complaining about nothing. Then low and behold I took my car on a Sunday drive and guess what, the VCM was annoying the heck out of me at mostly highway speeds. Mostly w/o the cruise on fyi. Cut to today......Honda calls to see if I understand the "Technology" on the car, meaning the Navi, XM Radio, and was I aware of the tire pressure monitoring system....blah, blah, blah. After we discussed these things I expressed my concerns about the VCM and he said, "We are hearing about VCM issues and depending upon the sensitivity of the driver :confuse: it is perfectly normal and within operating specifications to feel the VCM." I then asked him, as I had read on here that the brochure states the VCM is seamless and undetectable. He acknowledged that it said that but again went into the issue being how intune the driver was to the car. Anyways I asked him to please note my concerns and I told him I would be taking the car to the dealer to note the deficiency as well. I also asked if Honda was working on the issue and he said he didn't know. Well guys/gals....lets see where this goes from here. Cheers to all of you.
I have not taken my car in yet - the nearest dealer is NOT the one from which I purchased the car, so I anticipate that will be a problem too.
Any dealership is required to do warranty repairs. You don't have to bring the car back to the dealership you purchased the car from. I realize that they will probably give you the run-around, saying the issues you feel are "normal", but if the issues are "maddening" as you say they are, I think you should at least make one visit to a dealership (for your own good). I think you are doing yourself, Golfrski, and all the others an injustice, if you don't make your issues known to Honda. If you did half as much complaining to Honda, as you do on this forum, I think you would get some kind of positive response. If you are not one of the squeaky wheels, you will not get any grease, IMO. If I am stepping over the line, please forgive me, but it seems you want Golfrski (and others) to do all the work for you, then give you the answers afterward.
My 08 V6 w/Navi was finally into dealership yesterday for the first time. Mileage is just now 4K and 3 months old. Have had the issue since day one.
Service manager took car on short drive (20 miles) and could feel issues described. Took second new vehicle from lot and could immediately feel same issue. Contacted the tech line (Canadian tech line) and there is no report of the problem currently on Canadian tech line (guess I should say there wasn't - because there definately is now). Additionally, the tech line attendant has the same vehicle and told my service manager that he was having the same problem. Strange - tech guy admits problem with his vehicle but no report filed.
They did a diagnostic but there are no error codes stored. Obviously the car doesn't realize what it's doing or doesn't consider it a fault although those who have driven MY CAR (and I emphasize mine because it's apparent this is not happening on all) widely accept that the surging exists and that it's not acceptable.
My service manager has asked for a bit of time to look into the problem further internally - and offered that they will have to come up with some fix for this issue - he suggested he didn't feel it was acceptable for a Honda Product.
The combination of the salespeople are the service people are the reasons I purchase Honda products. And provided they do come up with the approriate fix for this concern I will continue to purchase Honda products. But the issue will have to be solved or this will be my last Honda.
I will keep you all posted on any further developments - it humors me that some individuals on this site continue to dismiss our claims. So to be perfectly clear - This problem exists with MY CAR - others have expressed a concern about THEIR car - and others still have the luxury of being bug free. I'm jealous, maybe one of the lucky ones want to trade with me.
Does your vehicle start with a 2 in your vin number? Im wondering if it could be a certain manufacturer that is having this issue. Wondering if japanese, mexican, british vehicles are also having these issues. 2 would make it canadian, thats why I ask. J japanese, 3 Mexico, 1 USA, 5 British. Just curious, trying to see if maybe there is a trend.
Sorry, I'm not running out in the cold to check right now, but as I am Canadian and my vehicle was purchased in Canada I can only assume that it starts with a 2. I will certainly let you know if it turns out it doesn't.
I believe you mentioned in an earlier post that you worked for a Honda dealer, so you might know that I am prevented (by Honda America) to cross the border to purchase a new vehicle. Little something the boys and girls at Honda started after our dollar gained substantially on the US dollar - for reference - my 2008 V6 with Navi was $39,000. + taxes in Canada. And that's with a dollar at parity. Local border town US dealers were/are prevented by Head office from selling to non-residents. That's definately a story for a different thread - I must really support Honda.
I have to agree. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE report to Honda of America and get a case started as I have and all the others. I think what you must all consider is that more people that find this forum the more reports of this you will see as evident of the last 24hrs and the new names we see here.
I am telling you this is a BIG problem and i for one am very concerned about not only my car and getting it to an acceptable level of satisfaction but resale.
I continue to feel all sorts of VCM issues and vibration that really is bad. Honda has not called me back in the last two weeks so I am getting a bit preturbed. None of us should have spent this amount of money to be dealing with an unsatisfactory buy. In the end I will reiterate for all of the Honda lovers.... I LOVE HONDA! however this new design and the operation is not something I will stay married too for long one way or the other.
I applaud those that are stepping up to share but again, PLEASE contact Honda and by all means if you take your car in BE SURE TO GET ACCURATE SERVICE RECORDS,,, Dont let the dealer put on your reciprt that it is operating normally Insist they put that it is still operating in the manner it is and you remain unhappy so that your case can be addressed effectivly later. This is NO time to hold onto a meaningless service recipt.
I thought I had a problem with MY car - seems not. Judging from what I have read here and in reviews - the car is normal - I am just too sensitive to be driving it and never should have bought it. For others it may be just fine, but for me it is not. I only caution others NOT to do what I did and trust Honda implicitly - test drive the car you would actulally buy extensively.and be certain you can live with VCM. I could not on a day to day basis - fortunately living in Manhattan I only have to drive it occasionally on weekends - I'll simply suffer for my mistake.. But I will never trust Honda again.
I don't know which is worse? Having a problem, and just living with it? Or righting off a company, without giving them a chance to rectify the problem? Heck! your dealership may be the ONE that solves this problem for everyone. I would go to the dealership at least once. If they blew me off, it would be phone calls, and letters to Honda of America.
Have you written and called Honda of America? What have they told you? Also, dont just live with it,, bring the car to the dealer until they fix the problem.... you should not settle for a car that you are not happy with Phantom.. keep the faith and calling Honda for help.
I bought a Honda so I would NOT have to go back to a dealership - out of 14 cars since 1981 I have taken a new Honda back once - 1983.when the torque converter would not lock up and the car would "hunt" geears. There was a TSB - one visit and fixed.
The VCM issue, if there even is one since it may simply be "normal", at this point is a fishing expedition. No one knows what is "wrong" if anything. Frankly, I suspect it is normal - that Honda released a car to the public knowing full well how the VCM worked and what it felt like driving it, figuring most people would not sense it or care - and be right. We, golfrski, are not most people.. Unfortunately, we either stick it out and grin and bear it, or sell the car. I am very disappointed Honda would release this poor bit of engineering on us and betray our loyalty and trust. Oh well, c'est la guerre. I for one surrender. Mark my words though - this car will have a big black mark from consumer Reports - just give it time..
There is some reasons that in certain areas all Hondas are equal. If this were 40 or more years ago when cars were built with minimum number of machines and a lot of human input I would have agreed with your statement. But today with the high tech machinery being used to make all the parts there is very little opportunity for any variation in the quality of parts.
Since the VCM issue is mostly one tied to an electronic computer circuit and program, if all the computer boards and identical and the program in them are identical there there is no reason to believe that in that area all are not equal.
Now I have no way of knowing if Honda changed the software controlling the VCM area. But I can tell you that I am very in tune to minor noises and operating conditions of an engine. My 2008 EX V6 has never displayed any of the characteristics described here. Yes, there might be a slight movement of feeling as the engine goes into the ECO mode but I associate this with the transmission shifting into 5th gear. I believe that the ECO mode does not activate until the transmission is in 5th gear. So it might well be that the shifting into 5th is being blamed for the engine going into the ECO mode. Now I might add that the transmission is very smooth and the shifts are hardly felt but they are there.
While the engine is in ECO mode has anyone felt the undesirable engine surges mentioned on this message board? I just wonder.
I test drove a 2006 V6 prior to me purchase and did not notice any problems claimed here and my 2008 V6 EX has been driven well over 2500 miles with no notice of the problems mention here.
I'm really glad you are not having the problems reported here. But the fact is that some are indeed having difficulties and that right there shows that there is something not "identical" about the electronics in these cars.
It may very well be that the issue is not widespread. That seems likely from what we've heard here. But we do need to be careful to allow for the fact that one experience does not negate another.
I bought the 2008 EX-L V6 last january 3 and so far I have travelled about 2000kms with this car. Highway performance is smooth with a slight tire/road noise, however, I have not experience the VCM issues that most of these folks are experiencing right now. Mine was built @ the Ohio plant with a manufactured date of Nov. 2007. Maybe as the someone here mentioned, this VCM issue might be subjective and does not apply to everyone. Just like when I test drove the Nissan Altima. I could not figure out the slight drone coming from the car. The salesman said that he couldn't hear or feel the drone but I was assuming that he was just doing his salespitch. I talked to a friend of mine who had an Altima and he said that the drone was an inherent characteristic of the Altima transmission which is a CVT. For him it was ok and the drone doesn't bother him at all but personally, it was annoying and I figured that I would not be able to live with it so I bought the Accord instead.
One thing that I noticed though about the Accord is that slight hesitation going from 1st gear to 2nd gear. I also have this with my 6th gen accord so I'm assuming that it is just the characteristic of the car.
There is no shifting of gears at 65-70 MPH in cruise - the car is in 5th. Yet many of us experience the surging and vibration when the car goes into and out of ECO mode. This is NOT a transmission shifting issue at lower speeds - please I think we can all tell the difference between that and the surging. The RPMs would change - and they do not at highway speeds and in cruise control mode.
Being cursed with a bad VCM and attributing it to karma would mean that golfrski would have had to have done something very wrong in hs previous years of life! :shades: And I doubt that to be the case!
Telling me that I had just plain luck for not having any issues with the VCM and changing the title of my message was just asking for a retort. If you believe that it's luck then yes, luck it is, bad or good.
Back to the topic:
Phantomv, golfski, dpsorts,et al. Why don't you guys give us the dealership name(s) and the Honda personnel(s) that you complained to. At least this will give owners in your respective locations a heads up in case they experience the same problem. At least, they can go to these dealerships and complained about the same issue. Dpsports, if you are located in Toronto, do you mind giving me the dealership and the service manager's name that you dealt with in regards to your problem? Will help us in the future just in case.
Telling me that I had just plain luck for not having any issues with the VCM and changing the title of my message was just asking for a retort. If you believe that it's luck then yes, luck it is, bad or good.
YRMAC -
First, I did no such thing as change the title of your message. Second, I never said "Told you" you were lucky to not have an issue with VCM - golfrski posted that.
I suggest that you be more careful to whom you attribute what. Your inaccuracy casts aspersions on the truth of your other assertions.
Let's get back to topic and not be taking people to task for things they did not write.
As far as VCM is concerned I am convinced now, given the people here who are experiencing VCM "problems" and those who are not, the posts of various reviewers finding the behavior "noticeable" or "maddening", and the accuracy of automated vehicle production today, especially among the Japanese manufacturers whose production tolerances are minute, that all of us are experiencing normal VCM operation. To some of us it is noticeable and intolerable - to others it is merely a matter of seeing the ECO light go on and off when the car shifts into and out of 6-4-3 mode.
Thus my contention - if anyone is contemplating purchase of an Accord with VCM, regardless of how many other Hondas you have ever owned and driven, drive the car you will actually buy extensively, trying it on the highway with cruise control on for a few miles. Really put i through its paces - you too may find that you are very aware of the shifintg of engine modes and find it unacceptable, as many of us here have. I had 3 previous Accord V6's and 4 Acura Legend V6s - NONE of those experiences prepared me for the VCM V6 of the '08 Accord. This is a VERY different car, and a technology that I, personally, find very unsatisfactory, annoying, maddening, frustrating, bothersome, certainly not up to what I thought were Honda engineering standards, and takes away from the enjoyment of the many other nice features of the car.
See, that is just it - it is a CAR - which means, to me, satisfaction with the engine and drivetrain operation is paramount to anything else - I don't care how great the stereo is, the heat/ac, the seat warmers, the power locks operating automatically, etc. if the engine/drivetrain performs unacceptably. My 1994 Legend Type II 6 speed was a fantastic car - what performance. My S2000? Unbelievable performance from a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder. Our old 1990 Legend V6 - superb highway performance belying its mere 161 HP - even at 180,000 miles would cruise all day at 80 effortlessly without any surging or shifting, and accelerate to 100 with ease and alacrity. Sadly this '08 V6 engine/grade logic transmission combination does not deliver, for me anyway, the satisfaction I would have thought it would - the detraction being all the goings on with it over which I have no control - surging, shifting, downshifting of the transmission when I don't want or need it to.
My point again? CAVEAT EMPTOR - DO NOT BUY THIS CAR WITHOUT EXTENSIVE ROAD TESTING. IT DOES NOT BEHAVE, I SUSPECT, LIKE ANY OTHER CAR YOU HAVE EVER DRIVEN UNLESS YOU OWNED A CADILLAC V-8-6-4. NOT EVEN THE ODYSSEY VCM - IT WAS AND REMAINS A MORE SIMPLE 6-3 OPERATION.
Well, you have now! And since you sell Hondas I strongly recommend you read the January 25, 2008, Wall Street Journal article comparing the new Mailbu to the new Accord, wherein the reviewer finds the Honda VCM operation "maddening behavior" and while only delivering 22MPG, even more "annoying".
Yes, I have now. I was directed here by a customer. I have driven quite a few V-6 2008 Accords and I have not felt this nor had I heard of this happening.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Every reviewer is entitled to his or her opinion. I'm as curious as anyone else is and I'm sure the people at Honda read these forums too!
That same reviewer talked about how Honda had dropped some "ill conceived" models such as Hybrid Accord Coupes.
so far the only people I see having the problems are from Canada. So again im wondering if it may be a certain manufacturer. I agree though may be isolated. I have not seen that issue even be talked about here at my dealership. Im very sure that if something is going on Honda will adress it. That i know for sure. So please give it some time for all the folks who are writting Honda off.
I am from NY - Manhattan. My car was manufactured in 11/07 in Marysville, OH. Gorgeous car - Polished Metal/Black interior. Gets all kinds of looks and boy do I now get treated differently at the garage here in Manhattan versus the old Acura, and at the car wash too! But in this case the beauty is only skin deep.
I am from Canada, specifically from Toronto, and I don't have this VCM problem YET. I even drove this car in the highway this week when the temp was -20C temperature and didn't feel that surging/vibrating sensation. Having said that, these folks who are having VCM problems should not villify Honda and/or Honda owners right away. Maybe Honda is aware that this problem exist and they are working on it. Give them time.
Again, to help us all, could phantomv, golf and dpsport provide us with dealer's name and contact person that they dealt with regarding the VCM? dpsort, what is the name of the dealership that you dealt with? Thanks
#3208 of 3653 Re: 2008 Accord V6 [seeker12] by dpmeersman Oct 09, 2007 (3:16 am) Replying to: seeker12 (Oct 08, 2007 12:11 pm) I've been enjoying the EX-L V6 Sedan for a couple of weeks. Only have about 600 miles on it but I don't find the variable cylinder system to be that noticeable. Unlike most reviewers that say it’s completely unnoticeable I can feel a little more going on then just the transmission shifting. When you consider the frequency that the ECO light on the dash comes on, this system is constantly making adjustments based on the terrain and attitude your right foot has with the accelerator, and anything that is activated as often as this is, based on my driving style, Honda better have gotten it right or it could be a big headache for both Honda and myself. I previously drove a 2003 Taurus and I'm amazed at the size of the new Accord. With 4 adults conversing while traveling 70 MPH on an interstate the Eco light tells me I'm getting a reasonable return on a gallon of gas, no one is shouting as the cabin is quiet and when you look in the rear view mirror and see your rear passengers seemingly in another zip code I smile and feel I made the right choice and I've got a lot of car for what I paid.
This is one of my first post on any of the Accord Forums and I almost regret posting it. To not purchase this car because something that is mechanical in nature and can be barely noticed would be absurd. Would you change your mind on the purchase of an automobile because you could feel the tranny shifting? What can be felt cannot be considered a surge or a clunk or a shudder, as it is less noticeable then a shift. I know a lot of Honda drivers make their purchase on a multitude of considerations, it's legendary reliability, form and function of most switchgear etc. But many are also driving their Honda's because they enjoy driving and sometimes, actually frequently they get a little frisky with their car because you can, they are fun cars to drive. So I mentioned the VCM as a perceptible feature on the new 08's just as a heads up to those who have a history with Honda and enthusiast driving styles so that they may pay a little more attention during their test drive to see if it's something that they may find objectionable.
Early on I felt those that were true Hondaphiles would be upset by the constant VCM activity. A few months later I still feel the same about my car but feel sympathetic to those that feel Honda has, if not deceived them, have implemented a technology that while not objectionable in a vehicle like the Odyssey, it degrades the driving experience in a car like the Accord. Owners loyal to the Accord have shown this loyalty for a number of very good reasons not the least of which is the ability to deliver a vehicle that offers utility when you need it and a "connectedness" with the vehicle and the road. For those that have that expectation thru past ownership of Honda vehicles, a valid argument can be made of a "dis-connectedness" as the vehicle actively switches between cylinders to match the demand of the current situation. And I purposely used the word "actively" because it is an action that can be felt, the level of which it bothers some more then others might be traced to more then just a difference in vehicles and the implementation of VCM within each vehicle. At the risk of sounding like some Madison Avenue ad salesman previous Accord owners felt a oneness with their vehicles for they were truly connected to the road via the drivetrain. Hondas use of words like imperceptable & seamless would lead previous owners to think they were buying another Accord with technology that has been applied by other auto mfg's but hey this is Honda and their engineering will surely get it right. In time maybe, but not yet. Good luck to all that feel Honda has failed them, and they have, and may they work towards a resolution that will benefit all.
I have repeatedly now explained that I have not taken mine to the dealer - the point of buying a Honda is to NOT have to go back to a dealer. What difference would it make to you what dealer I take it to in Manhattan anyway? Do you live here?
I have stated that I think my car is probably operating normally and accepted that I am particularly sensitve to it. No one is villifying Honda - I have owned them since 1981, probably many more than you have. I am simply saying that before buying the VCM, one should test it thoroughly and see if it is acceptable to them - it is a very different driving experience over any other Honda V6 I have owned. It is not normal for any car to have any of its cylinders shut down and restarted repeatedly - I challenge anyone here to name one other manufacturer that has risked the engineeering reputation of its bread and butter car on this technology other than Honda? Again, not villifying Honda, but I think it a very bad business decision to unleash this "technology" on its loyal devotees and other buyers and have it operate so offensively to many of us. And I am NOT even an unbiased judge! I have been a loyal Honda customer for 27 years!!!
What a great post dpmeersman!! You have stated it so eloquently. I have long considered Accords a driver's car - and a connection through them to the road. I can no longer say that because the car now actively does things I do not want it to do,and over which I have no control. Imagine my shock when with the cruise set at 62 on a rolling curvy divided four lane highway(not an interstate so the hills were fairly steep) the car downshifted on the downslope instead of simply releasing the "gas" and letting the gear reduction of the final drive ratio slow the car to maintain its steady speed. This, coupled with the constant VCM operation, and I feel like the car is totally in control and I have very little input.
But I need not rewrite what you wrote - great post. You said it all.
Phantomv, I am not here to downplay the VCM woes and/or other 8th gen accord woes. If you think the car is operating normally, then whats the beef? You said that you are sensitive to it, then that is subjective and not an inherent issue at all.
The point of having a car dealership is for you to have an avenue in case you have a problem with the car. You feel that the technology behind the VCM is faulty and "a very bad business decision", then explain this to the dealer. Harping about your problems here and not bringing your car to the dealer to get it checked just doesn't make any sense. Buying a Honda does not exempt you for not having any car issues, you are in denial if you think otherwise.
If you have the time, you can go to Planet Honda located in Union, NJ. I bought some stuff for my Accord at that dealership when I was @ Jersey three weeks ago. Helpful bunch of guys. As stated before, I am only asking about the dealership names for anyone's information in case owners in your area have the same issues as yours and golfrski.
Phantomv, I am not here to downplay the VCM woes and/or other 8th gen accord woes. If you think the car is operating normally, then whats the beef? You said that you are sensitive to it, then that is subjective and not an inherent issue at all.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt (as I have tried to give others here without VCM issues yet complaining about those of us who do have issues with it) with the above statement that you were not dismissing me or insulting me with your "what's the beef?" comment. "What's the beef?" You can't be serious!! Just because I may concede that my car may be normal does not logically lead to the conclusion that there is not a problem!!
I'll tell you - the "beef" is that this is an outrageously irritating, annoying, maddening drivetrain for which I paid $27,000, and was advertised, and continues to be by Honda - " The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers." Uh...no it doesn't. It makes my wife ill!! :sick: At least I KNOW when it is going to happen - ECO lights up. She never has a clue - simply feels it. Read the WSJ, read the USA Today road tests. And I have given up my personal "beef" - and am now taking it upon myself as a public service to counter Honda's misleading advertising to inform those unacquainted with the VCM and its operation to thoroughly test it before purchasing it. That is it -period. If you or anyone else here finds that offensive or my having a "beef" - so be it. As I have said until I am blue in the face - this car does NOT function or operate like any other Honda V6 with which anyone might have experience, nor for that matter ANY other mainstream V6 car on the market today. NAME ONE OTHER V6 BEING SOLD IN THE US TODAY BY ANOTHER MANUFACTURER WHOSE ENGINE SHUTS DOWN AND RESTARTS MULTIPLE CYLINDERS CAUSING THE ENGINE TO RUN OUT OF HARMONIC BALANCE REQUIRING ACTIVE ENGINE MOUNTS. You cannot because there are none and have been none other than the ill fated Cadillac V-8-6-4. Read the Auto Week and USA Today reviews from Honda's own web page - http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/reviews.aspx
And contrary to Honda's advertising claims - as evidenced by my experiences, others here, and among the reviewers cited on its own page, the system is not as claimed by Honda. YOU MUST TRY IT YOURSELF. Some find it unobjectionable - many others do not. Make sure before you buy.
Comments
I drove mostly on highway (mixed flat and hilly) for 80 miles x2 (back and forth) with her, and we did experience a little bit of vibration (or noise) at high speed (> 60 MPH, I could feel the vibration thru the steering wheel). The vibration occurred with the ECO light on, and I guess that it could be related to the 4- or 3-cylinder operations. It bugs me a little but my wife is OK with it.
The surging also happened. When I was driving on a 4-5 miles long of flat highway at 65 MPH, the ECO light was on (I assume that it was on 4-cylinder mode). Even with the ECO light on, the car surged again during that stretch of road (I assume that it went down to the 3-cyclinder mode). The car was fine when the ECO light was off (6-cylinder mode). We had all music turned off and both of us could experience that.
The surging happened on and off when I drove in the metro area (60 MPH, up and down some slopes). It was a 4-lane highway and I stayed on the second left lane. The ECO light came on and off when the surging happened. It was difficult to describe the surging but we could feel it. Again it bugs me a bit but my wife is OK with it.
I just want to share my experience because the vibration and surging happen in BOTH of my 08 V6 Accords. They are not something that made up by phantom or golfski or any other ones who have been loyal customers to Honda. I could deal with the vibration, but the surging bugs me a bit. OVERALL, I could still deal with the problems. My wife can feel them too but she is OK with the car (unless the engine or a wheel falls off). She is more easy going person than I am. Perhaps I am more of a type A and she is a type B person...
I will try to give my salesman a call this week and let him know about my experience ( I want to add an extra voice to your voices to Honda). Maybe he will let Honda know about this. I am "OK" with my cars at this moment (the V6 has much more power that the tiny Hybrid engine) that I don't want to waste my time to send my cars in for trouble shoot... I am not an expert on VCM but I believe that it was probably the problem and I think the car will run better if VCM can be deactivated. I would like to see Honda put a "VCM OFF" button in our vehicles in the near future.
I was specifically looking for an EX-L v6 with NAV in black/black and few dealers had it. I asked if they had any coming in and they said they do not have any EX-L V6's with NAV coming in for the next 3 months. Honda has restricted them. I don't know exactly what that means but that's exactly what one dealer told me. 5 other dealers told me they did not have any EX-L V6 NAV's coming in for the next three months but they did not say it was restricted and I didn't ask.
Perhaps people are being told by their dealers that it is "normal" and they are simply accepting that explanation?
It seems very likely that some cars exhibit issues with this technology whereas others do not. There are many possible reasons for that (including the perceptions of the driver but not limited to that by any means) - complicated electronics cannot always be quickly boiled down to black or white.
What everyone here needs to accept is that some owners are having problems they consider intolerable with this technology and others are not. This does not make ANY of the owners wrong.
What are the owners who are unhappy doing to get the problem resolved?
Guess I have just been lucky. Of the 14 new Hondas I have bought since 1981, I have only had to take one back to the dealer with a problem - the 1983 with automatic and lock up overdrive - the transmission was "hunting" and would not lock up. There was a TSB on that one.
That is why I have continued to buy Honda/Acura products - their reliability. Taking a car in to the dealer is a major production and pain in the ***. Our 1990 Acura Legend had 180,000 miles on it and had not seen a dealer's repair shop in 5 years. I have not taken my car in yet - the nearest dealer is NOT the one from which I purchased the car, so I anticipate that will be a problem too. With Honda service managers supposedly stating that they have had no complaints, and hondamatic commenting as he/she has, and others here expressing their opinions, maybe my car is normal and it is I that is the problem, although the comments by reviewers seem to bear out that the drivetrain behavior can be maddening. I have come to accept it as "normal" - though that does not mean it is acceptable to me. I merely caution others NOT to do what I did and buy on blind trust but to extensively test drive the car before buying it - they too may find the behavior of the VCM unacceptable, as the WSJ tester and I do. Have you driven one?
Cut to today......Honda calls to see if I understand the "Technology" on the car, meaning the Navi, XM Radio, and was I aware of the tire pressure monitoring system....blah, blah, blah. After we discussed these things I expressed my concerns about the VCM and he said, "We are hearing about VCM issues and depending upon the sensitivity of the driver :confuse: it is perfectly normal and within operating specifications to feel the VCM." I then asked him, as I had read on here that the brochure states the VCM is seamless and undetectable. He acknowledged that it said that but again went into the issue being how intune the driver was to the car. Anyways I asked him to please note my concerns and I told him I would be taking the car to the dealer to note the deficiency as well. I also asked if Honda was working on the issue and he said he didn't know.
Well guys/gals....lets see where this goes from here. Cheers to all of you.
Any dealership is required to do warranty repairs. You don't have to bring the car back to the dealership you purchased the car from. I realize that they will probably give you the run-around, saying the issues you feel are "normal", but if the issues are "maddening" as you say they are, I think you should at least make one visit to a dealership (for your own good). I think you are doing yourself, Golfrski, and all the others an injustice, if you don't make your issues known to Honda. If you did half as much complaining to Honda, as you do on this forum, I think you would get some kind of positive response. If you are not one of the squeaky wheels, you will not get any grease, IMO. If I am stepping over the line, please forgive me, but it seems you want Golfrski (and others) to do all the work for you, then give you the answers afterward.
What are the affected people doing to get their problems resolved? We'd really like to know.
Carnut29, thanks for your report. Keep us posted.
My 08 V6 w/Navi was finally into dealership yesterday for the first time. Mileage is just now 4K and 3 months old. Have had the issue since day one.
Service manager took car on short drive (20 miles) and could feel issues described. Took second new vehicle from lot and could immediately feel same issue. Contacted the tech line (Canadian tech line) and there is no report of the problem currently on Canadian tech line (guess I should say there wasn't - because there definately is now). Additionally, the tech line attendant has the same vehicle and told my service manager that he was having the same problem. Strange - tech guy admits problem with his vehicle but no report filed.
They did a diagnostic but there are no error codes stored. Obviously the car doesn't realize what it's doing or doesn't consider it a fault although those who have driven MY CAR (and I emphasize mine because it's apparent this is not happening on all) widely accept that the surging exists and that it's not acceptable.
My service manager has asked for a bit of time to look into the problem further internally - and offered that they will have to come up with some fix for this issue - he suggested he didn't feel it was acceptable for a Honda Product.
The combination of the salespeople are the service people are the reasons I purchase Honda products. And provided they do come up with the approriate fix for this concern I will continue to purchase Honda products. But the issue will have to be solved or this will be my last Honda.
I will keep you all posted on any further developments - it humors me that some individuals on this site continue to dismiss our claims. So to be perfectly clear - This problem exists with MY CAR - others have expressed a concern about THEIR car - and others still have the luxury of being bug free. I'm jealous, maybe one of the lucky ones want to trade with me.
I think those who find fault here are finding fault with those who believe it to be an all or nothing issue.
I do hope that you read through my entire post as I very clearly indicated that I understand that this issue is not occuring with all vehicles.
I believe you mentioned in an earlier post that you worked for a Honda dealer, so you might know that I am prevented (by Honda America) to cross the border to purchase a new vehicle. Little something the boys and girls at Honda started after our dollar gained substantially on the US dollar - for reference - my 2008 V6 with Navi was $39,000. + taxes in Canada. And that's with a dollar at parity. Local border town US dealers were/are prevented by Head office from selling to non-residents. That's definately a story for a different thread - I must really support Honda.
I am telling you this is a BIG problem and i for one am very concerned about not only my car and getting it to an acceptable level of satisfaction but resale.
I continue to feel all sorts of VCM issues and vibration that really is bad. Honda has not called me back in the last two weeks so I am getting a bit preturbed. None of us should have spent this amount of money to be dealing with an unsatisfactory buy. In the end I will reiterate for all of the Honda lovers.... I LOVE HONDA! however this new design and the operation is not something I will stay married too for long one way or the other.
I applaud those that are stepping up to share but again, PLEASE contact Honda and by all means if you take your car in BE SURE TO GET ACCURATE SERVICE RECORDS,,, Dont let the dealer put on your reciprt that it is operating normally Insist they put that it is still operating in the manner it is and you remain unhappy so that your case can be addressed effectivly later. This is NO time to hold onto a meaningless service recipt.
Golf-
The VCM issue, if there even is one since it may simply be "normal", at this point is a fishing expedition. No one knows what is "wrong" if anything. Frankly, I suspect it is normal - that Honda released a car to the public knowing full well how the VCM worked and what it felt like driving it, figuring most people would not sense it or care - and be right. We, golfrski, are not most people.. Unfortunately, we either stick it out and grin and bear it, or sell the car. I am very disappointed Honda would release this poor bit of engineering on us and betray our loyalty and trust. Oh well, c'est la guerre. I for one surrender. Mark my words though - this car will have a big black mark from consumer Reports - just give it time..
Since the VCM issue is mostly one tied to an electronic computer circuit and program, if all the computer boards and identical and the program in them are identical there there is no reason to believe that in that area all are not equal.
Now I have no way of knowing if Honda changed the software controlling the VCM area. But I can tell you that I am very in tune to minor noises and operating conditions of an engine. My 2008 EX V6 has never displayed any of the characteristics described here. Yes, there might be a slight movement of feeling as the engine goes into the ECO mode but I associate this with the transmission shifting into 5th gear. I believe that the ECO mode does not activate until the transmission is in 5th gear. So it might well be that the shifting into 5th is being blamed for the engine going into the ECO mode. Now I might add that the transmission is very smooth and the shifts are hardly felt but they are there.
While the engine is in ECO mode has anyone felt the undesirable engine surges mentioned on this message board? I just wonder.
I test drove a 2006 V6 prior to me purchase and did not notice any problems claimed here and my 2008 V6 EX has been driven well over 2500 miles with no notice of the problems mention here.
It may very well be that the issue is not widespread. That seems likely from what we've heard here. But we do need to be careful to allow for the fact that one experience does not negate another.
One thing that I noticed though about the Accord is that slight hesitation going from 1st gear to 2nd gear. I also have this with my 6th gen accord so I'm assuming that it is just the characteristic of the car.
Are you in the GTA? If so, which dealership in TO did you go to?
Back to the topic:
Phantomv, golfski, dpsorts,et al. Why don't you guys give us the dealership name(s) and the Honda personnel(s) that you complained to. At least this will give owners in your respective locations a heads up in case they experience the same problem. At least, they can go to these dealerships and complained about the same issue. Dpsports, if you are located in Toronto, do you mind giving me the dealership and the service manager's name that you dealt with in regards to your problem? Will help us in the future just in case.
Telling me that I had just plain luck for not having any issues with the VCM and changing the title of my message was just asking for a retort. If you believe that it's luck then yes, luck it is, bad or good.
YRMAC -
First, I did no such thing as change the title of your message.
Second, I never said "Told you" you were lucky to not have an issue with VCM - golfrski posted that.
I suggest that you be more careful to whom you attribute what. Your inaccuracy casts aspersions on the truth of your other assertions.
Let's get back to topic and not be taking people to task for things they did not write.
As far as VCM is concerned I am convinced now, given the people here who are experiencing VCM "problems" and those who are not, the posts of various reviewers finding the behavior "noticeable" or "maddening", and the accuracy of automated vehicle production today, especially among the Japanese manufacturers whose production tolerances are minute, that all of us are experiencing normal VCM operation. To some of us it is noticeable and intolerable - to others it is merely a matter of seeing the ECO light go on and off when the car shifts into and out of 6-4-3 mode.
Thus my contention - if anyone is contemplating purchase of an Accord with VCM, regardless of how many other Hondas you have ever owned and driven, drive the car you will actually buy extensively, trying it on the highway with cruise control on for a few miles. Really put i through its paces - you too may find that you are very aware of the shifintg of engine modes and find it unacceptable, as many of us here have. I had 3 previous Accord V6's and 4 Acura Legend V6s - NONE of those experiences prepared me for the VCM V6 of the '08 Accord. This is a VERY different car, and a technology that I, personally, find very unsatisfactory, annoying, maddening, frustrating, bothersome, certainly not up to what I thought were Honda engineering standards, and takes away from the enjoyment of the many other nice features of the car.
See, that is just it - it is a CAR - which means, to me, satisfaction with the engine and drivetrain operation is paramount to anything else - I don't care how great the stereo is, the heat/ac, the seat warmers, the power locks operating automatically, etc. if the engine/drivetrain performs unacceptably. My 1994 Legend Type II 6 speed was a fantastic car - what performance. My S2000? Unbelievable performance from a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder. Our old 1990 Legend V6 - superb highway performance belying its mere 161 HP - even at 180,000 miles would cruise all day at 80 effortlessly without any surging or shifting, and accelerate to 100 with ease and alacrity. Sadly this '08 V6 engine/grade logic transmission combination does not deliver, for me anyway, the satisfaction I would have thought it would - the detraction being all the goings on with it over which I have no control - surging, shifting, downshifting of the transmission when I don't want or need it to.
My point again? CAVEAT EMPTOR - DO NOT BUY THIS CAR WITHOUT EXTENSIVE ROAD TESTING. IT DOES NOT BEHAVE, I SUSPECT, LIKE ANY OTHER CAR YOU HAVE EVER DRIVEN UNLESS YOU OWNED A CADILLAC V-8-6-4. NOT EVEN THE ODYSSEY VCM - IT WAS AND REMAINS A MORE SIMPLE 6-3 OPERATION.
You have to remember, these forums attract people with problems like a magnet.
I honestly think there may be some isolated problems and I also believe some people may be a bit over sensitive?
I don't know. Someone directed me to this forum otherwise I would know nothing about this. I do know that Honda is usually quick to react to problems.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120111703171810629.html?mod=todays_us_weekend_jo- urnal
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Every reviewer is entitled to his or her opinion. I'm as curious as anyone else is and I'm sure the people at Honda read these forums too!
That same reviewer talked about how Honda had dropped some "ill conceived" models such as Hybrid Accord Coupes.
Honda never built a Hybrid Accord Coupe.
I'll stay tuned, I'm curious about this too.
Gorgeous car - Polished Metal/Black interior. Gets all kinds of looks and boy do I now get treated differently at the garage here in Manhattan versus the old Acura, and at the car wash too! But in this case the beauty is only skin deep.
Again, to help us all, could phantomv, golf and dpsport provide us with dealer's name and contact person that they dealt with regarding the VCM? dpsort, what is the name of the dealership that you dealt with? Thanks
#3208 of 3653 Re: 2008 Accord V6 [seeker12] by dpmeersman Oct 09, 2007 (3:16 am)
Replying to: seeker12 (Oct 08, 2007 12:11 pm)
I've been enjoying the EX-L V6 Sedan for a couple of weeks. Only have about 600 miles on it but I don't find the variable cylinder system to be that noticeable. Unlike most reviewers that say it’s completely unnoticeable I can feel a little more going on then just the transmission shifting. When you consider the frequency that the ECO light on the dash comes on, this system is constantly making adjustments based on the terrain and attitude your right foot has with the accelerator, and anything that is activated as often as this is, based on my driving style, Honda better have gotten it right or it could be a big headache for both Honda and myself. I previously drove a 2003 Taurus and I'm amazed at the size of the new Accord. With 4 adults conversing while traveling 70 MPH on an interstate the Eco light tells me I'm getting a reasonable return on a gallon of gas, no one is shouting as the cabin is quiet and when you look in the rear view mirror and see your rear passengers seemingly in another zip code I smile and feel I made the right choice and I've got a lot of car for what I paid.
This is one of my first post on any of the Accord Forums and I almost regret posting it. To not purchase this car because something that is mechanical in nature and can be barely noticed would be absurd. Would you change your mind on the purchase of an automobile because you could feel the tranny shifting? What can be felt cannot be considered a surge or a clunk or a shudder, as it is less noticeable then a shift. I know a lot of Honda drivers make their purchase on a multitude of considerations, it's legendary reliability, form and function of most switchgear etc. But many are also driving their Honda's because they enjoy driving and sometimes, actually frequently they get a little frisky with their car because you can, they are fun cars to drive. So I mentioned the VCM as a perceptible feature on the new 08's just as a heads up to those who have a history with Honda and enthusiast driving styles so that they may pay a little more attention during their test drive to see if it's something that they may find objectionable.
Early on I felt those that were true Hondaphiles would be upset by the constant VCM activity. A few months later I still feel the same about my car but feel sympathetic to those that feel Honda has, if not deceived them, have implemented a technology that while not objectionable in a vehicle like the Odyssey, it degrades the driving experience in a car like the Accord. Owners loyal to the Accord have shown this loyalty for a number of very good reasons not the least of which is the ability to deliver a vehicle that offers utility when you need it and a "connectedness" with the vehicle and the road. For those that have that expectation thru past ownership of Honda vehicles, a valid argument can be made of a "dis-connectedness" as the vehicle actively switches between cylinders to match the demand of the current situation. And I purposely used the word "actively" because it is an action that can be felt, the level of which it bothers some more then others might be traced to more then just a difference in vehicles and the implementation of VCM within each vehicle. At the risk of sounding like some Madison Avenue ad salesman previous Accord owners felt a oneness with their vehicles for they were truly connected to the road via the drivetrain. Hondas use of words like imperceptable & seamless would lead previous owners to think they were buying another Accord with technology that has been applied by other auto mfg's but hey this is Honda and their engineering will surely get it right. In time maybe, but not yet. Good luck to all that feel Honda has failed them, and they have, and may they work towards a resolution that will benefit all.
I have stated that I think my car is probably operating normally and accepted that I am particularly sensitve to it. No one is villifying Honda - I have owned them since 1981, probably many more than you have. I am simply saying that before buying the VCM, one should test it thoroughly and see if it is acceptable to them - it is a very different driving experience over any other Honda V6 I have owned. It is not normal for any car to have any of its cylinders shut down and restarted repeatedly - I challenge anyone here to name one other manufacturer that has risked the engineeering reputation of its bread and butter car on this technology other than Honda? Again, not villifying Honda, but I think it a very bad business decision to unleash this "technology" on its loyal devotees and other buyers and have it operate so offensively to many of us. And I am NOT even an unbiased judge! I have been a loyal Honda customer for 27 years!!!
But I need not rewrite what you wrote - great post. You said it all.
The point of having a car dealership is for you to have an avenue in case you have a problem with the car. You feel that the technology behind the VCM is faulty and "a very bad business decision", then explain this to the dealer. Harping about your problems here and not bringing your car to the dealer to get it checked just doesn't make any sense. Buying a Honda does not exempt you for not having any car issues, you are in denial if you think otherwise.
If you have the time, you can go to Planet Honda located in Union, NJ. I bought some stuff for my Accord at that dealership when I was @ Jersey three weeks ago. Helpful bunch of guys. As stated before, I am only asking about the dealership names for anyone's information in case owners in your area have the same issues as yours and golfrski.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt (as I have tried to give others here without VCM issues yet complaining about those of us who do have issues with it) with the above statement that you were not dismissing me or insulting me with your "what's the beef?" comment. "What's the beef?" You can't be serious!! Just because I may concede that my car may be normal does not logically lead to the conclusion that there is not a problem!!
I'll tell you - the "beef" is that this is an outrageously irritating, annoying, maddening drivetrain for which I paid $27,000, and was advertised, and continues to be by Honda - " The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers." Uh...no it doesn't. It makes my wife ill!! :sick: At least I KNOW when it is going to happen - ECO lights up. She never has a clue - simply feels it. Read the WSJ, read the USA Today road tests. And I have given up my personal "beef" - and am now taking it upon myself as a public service to counter Honda's misleading advertising to inform those unacquainted with the VCM and its operation to thoroughly test it before purchasing it. That is it -period. If you or anyone else here finds that offensive or my having a "beef" - so be it.
As I have said until I am blue in the face - this car does NOT function or operate like any other Honda V6 with which anyone might have experience, nor for that matter ANY other mainstream V6 car on the market today. NAME ONE OTHER V6 BEING SOLD IN THE US TODAY BY ANOTHER MANUFACTURER WHOSE ENGINE SHUTS DOWN AND RESTARTS MULTIPLE CYLINDERS CAUSING THE ENGINE TO RUN OUT OF HARMONIC BALANCE REQUIRING ACTIVE ENGINE MOUNTS. You cannot because there are none and have been none other than the ill fated Cadillac V-8-6-4. Read the Auto Week and USA Today reviews from Honda's own web page - http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/reviews.aspx
And contrary to Honda's advertising claims - as evidenced by my experiences, others here, and among the reviewers cited on its own page, the system is not as claimed by Honda. YOU MUST TRY IT YOURSELF. Some find it unobjectionable - many others do not. Make sure before you buy.