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Comments
First off, my tired eyes skipped right past the three-mode system. I saw "three-cylinder" system apparently, and posted accordingly. My apologies.
Second-of-all, there was no personal attack against you. I posted that those who keep MAKING attacks against the guys with the VCM should quit it (and probably just move along out of this forum). I also am growing tired of people assuming that all these Accords have the problem, as many posts here seem to indicate, such as your statement:
They confirm with their own experiences what golfrski, myself and others have said and are experiencing - the system is NOT seamless and passengers Do notice.
Aaaaarrrgghhh! Deny reality people.
You imply that those without the problems are "denying reality."
THAT'S where I came up with the "in-denial" statement. There was no insult intended.
And please...stop using CAPS when you're posting. You are shouting so loud, I can't even hear you.
And those articles that keep referring to will not help your cause since the reviewers from the said articles gave positive reviews to the Accord. As one of the reviewer said, "sensitive driver" might feel the VCM sensation. If you believe that this article is a fact then you are one of these so-called "sensitive drivers"
You won't notice a thing
The only noticeable difference is that you'll visit the petrol pumps less often. The VCM system monitors throttle position, vehicle speed, engine speed, automatic-transmission gear selection and other factors to determine the correct cylinder activation scheme for the operating conditions. In addition, the system determines whether engine oil pressure is suitable for VCM switching and whether catalytic-converter temperature will remain in the proper range. To smooth the transition between activating or deactivating cylinders, the system adjusts ignition timing, drive-by-wire throttle position and turns the torque converter lock-up on and off. As a result, the transition between three, four, and six cylinder operation is unnoticeable to the driver.
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Nothing could be further from the TRUTH.
The misleading advertising needs to stop at a minimum so that prospective buyers are educated about this vehicle. this coupled with extensive test driving is how driver acceptability can then be formed
While this analogy will seem odd to many, I will use it for color only:
Recently Dateline NBC did a story on Vodka. What the testing demonstrated was how many people tend to order top shelf or premium brands like Grey Goose for instance. Why? because the marketing and advertising is so powerful that people believe that Grey Goose tastes better then well vodka because they are told it is.
The test went on to a blind taste test between multiple avid Vodka afficianados.
Low and behold,,, the overwhelming majority chose the cheapest well vodka in almost every test both mixed drinks and straight, they said it tasted better and that is was smoother.... The testers took this theory of Marketing and Advertising power even further, by providing drinks to the participants telling them how do they like the strawberry taste? The participants went on to say it was the best strawberry taste they had ever had.. in fact they explained down to the detail how fresh the strawberry were .... know what? the drinks were not even strawberry they were something like Chocolate or vanilla. Their point was that Marketing has everything to do with how we precieve what we have and experience this is the issue with saying " YOU WONT NOTICE A THING" some clearly have, as did some of the participants in the taste tests and many did not. NOW, you may say well ok, if I dont feel it then there isnt a problem for me and you would NOT be off base. However, the fact that one individual does not find it objectionable in no way negates the issue that its the cheap vodka or the car has a design flaw...
I am only trying to add a differant slant of clarity to this issue as this has cerathinly become a HOT topic.
The V6 with VCM has design flaws.. its noticable, it shutters, surges and vibrates.. Some can handle it while others cannot. Changes and improvements to products typically are not dervied from those that dont ask for it or companies that ignore real world feedback, rather from those that demand it or those that are open to suggestions.. its called Product Development.
just another 2 cents..
You won't notice a thing
Nothing could be further from the TRUTH.
For you. It is true, obviously, for others. Please understand this!
My car has automatic-off headlamps. If there was an electrical problem that caused them not to turn off, but Honda didn't know how to fix my car, while many other buyers had their lights turning off with no problem, would that be false advertising, because MINE didn't work right?
Unfortunately, misleading advertising is the norm, as you pointed out with the vodka example. Everyone does it, and Honda is no exception. Honda dealership salesmen should make sure potential buyers test drive these cars thoroughly, to make sure the VCM operation is not objectionable to them. It would maybe prevent some of the future disgruntled customers. Maybe the advertising should say "practically" unnoticeable. But would that really make a difference?
As long as I can continue to share my experience, any potential resolution Honda offers and shed light on this for others considering this particular model I will. Lets just say that I which I had read a forum when I bought the car ,saw all the dialog about some of the concerns and then went into the purchase with my eye wide open......
One thing I did notice while out driving today though, was how high the RPM's were for the speed of the vehicle while cruising on the Interstate. I was doing 70 MPH at about 2500 RPM. That seems a little high for a V-6 with a 5 speed overdrive automatic. In fact, I think my '07 Accord SE V-6 only turns around 1600-1700 RPM at 70 MPH. And I did check to make sure I was in "D" and not "D3". Anyone else notice their RPM's for this speed? It is perfectly flat for miles where I was driving too.
Honda dealer should be able to solve any problem or answer any question regarding the service and operation of your Honda. Should a special problem arise, please follow these steps:
1. Contact the Service Manager at your dealership. If he or she is unable to resolve the matter;
2. Contact the Dealer Principal or General Manager of the dealership. Then if necessary;
3. Contact the Honda Customer Relations.
For Canadian Owners:
Honda Canada participates in an arbitration program administered by the CAMVAP. They will advise you as to your arbitration rights and will, as appropriate, arrange for your complaint to be reviewed and resolved by an independent third party though binding arbitration.
Again, the first step is necessary. Go to your dealer.
i dont think anyone has ever said dont test drive the car, in fact way the opposite.. the car needs to be heavily tested before a buy... this thread may help prospective buyers look out of those things that would not bother them on a 20 min trip around the dealer but will drive them to the point of insanity and in my case and some other folks total regret, on a trip from the city to the cape......
08 Honda Accord EX-L
3.5L V6
3600 lbs
194.3" Length
58.1" Height
72.7" Width
18.5 gallon tank
19/29 mpg (EPA)
07 Honda Accord EX-L
3.0L V6
3435 lbs
191.1" Length
57.3" Height
71.6" Width
17.1 gallon tank
20/29 mpg (EPA)
Given all of the differences the VCM, while maddening to some, seems to be helping with the overall mpg numbers.
I did test drive an EX-L V6 a/t coupe tonight. I put just over 20 miles on her, 3/4 of it on the highway. I tried the cruise at 62 as well as above and below 62, but I couldn't get it to vibrate. I might had gone through with the deal, but they don't have a coupe exactly like I want and I'm not sure about ordering one for fear that it would vibrate as others have noted on this board. It does make me wonder though, is there enough difference with the set up of the coupe that these problems only exist in the sedans?
I told the salesman that I was hesitant to buy an Accord right now until I find out what they are doing about the vibration problem in their V6's. He assured me that Honda wasn't having a problem with their V6's - it was Toyota who recalled the V6's in the Camry's.
Again, I feel that the 6 to 4 cylinder switch is not a problem, but the 4 to 3 cylinder switch is. I'm pretty anal about my cars, so this will eventually drive me nuts. Rodiron620, you mentioned something about me doing something while I still had a fair amount of leverage, what might that be exactly? I've already talked with the dealer, and they said sure we could do a deal for you to go to a 4-cylinder EX-L, but they indicated that I would take a hit on the trade-in of my V-6 with 120 miles. They're pretty much being @$$holes about this now.
Like one of the previous posters mentioned, while on a drive with my wife, she asked "What are you doing?" I said "What do you mean?", and then she asked why I was on and off the gas so much. I told her I wasn't, and then explained to her about this VCM issue and others' experiences with it. She just kind of rolled her eyes at this point since she knows how I am about vehicles, and wondered aloud how long I would be happy with this situation.
I was also considering a Camry SE V-6, but was scared of the 6-speed automatic transmission "flare" problems, and have heard nothing of a Toyota V-6 recall. I actually prefer the styling of the Toyota.
What I would like to see Honda do, is to put a switch in to defeat the VCM. they could even make it default to "ON" at start-up each time and I'd be satisfied. I would just turn it off each time I started the car. I wonder if an aftermarket tuner could produce a "chip" or new ECM that would bypass VCM? Sure, it would void the warranty, but at least you wouldn't have to deal with this not ready for prime time system they have now.
I have the 06 EX-V6. At 65 mph, I'm right at 2000 rpm. I believe for the 4 cyl, the rpms are a bit higher for the same speed. Therefore, it makes sense that the 08 V6 with VCM will be turning at higher rpms since it should be running in V4 mode at cruising speeds. That way it can stay in V4 mode longer, even during moderate acceleration.
Some of you may be familiar with the explanation of VCM that indicates that there should not logically be any vibration in 3 cylinder mode because all pistons are still moving, etc.. This is not satisfactory in my mind. There is an internal combustion happening in 3 cylinders on one side of the block that is not happening on the other. This is an incredible one sided force on the motor that absolutely would cause more vibration. That is the reason for the high tech motor mounts, etc. Honda anticipated this but on some vechicles (mind included) their answer to this isn't working correctly.
Those of you who are not experiencing problems, can you please confirm again that you really do not feel any low growing or vibrating feeling when the VCM is activated, especially around 50-60 mph? I'd really like to hear your response as while it is hard to believe, I do also find it very hopeful because obviously, there must be some adjustment or "fix" to make all these cars equal.
Let me answer that question with a brief story. I was about 13 yrs old in the back seat of my dad's car driving back from my grandparents house. We were on a blvd doing exactly 35 mph (my dad never broke the speed limit, talk about maddening when my friends are waiting for me to go terrorize the neighborhood). I can still vision this happening btw. Right along side of us is this hippie looking guy driving a car with a leak in his exhaust manifold, and he's accelerating until his taillights are even with our headlights, then decelerates until his headlights are even with our taillights, then he accelerates again, then decelerates... It went on and on for about 3 miles to the next light, and looking at him he was oblivious to us even being right along side him for the entire time. It was comical, and we were laughing about it all the way home. My dad said, "that's how not to drive".
If that guy would have had our VCM, I imagine he would been bucking his way the entire time. By slopping up, I meant like drive inefficiently maybe. Some of my old high school guys still drive sloppy. Always accelerating, harder braking, etc... If you drop full off the accelerator just after the VCM kicks in, I think there's a good chance you could get her to buck. I think there's a good chance all the mentioned reviewers needed a bit of time to get used to the throttle by wire like I did. My comment about VCM not being for everybody was vague. But if you're going to drive like you're on a slalom course, my feeling is the VCM would be lost and the driver would be complaining about it.
To answer your last question, you can't get sloppy with the cruise on. You just kick back in the sound studio and enjoy the ride.
I have said it before but since you have asked for reconfimation....let me assure you my V6 EXL does not show the slightest indication of "any" of the symptoms mentioned by some owners in this forum. For the benefit of the doubt, I have even taken test drives trying to reconstruct various scenarios that have been mentioned (varying speed, cruise cintrol, terrain, etc.) and nothing out of ordinary. At certain speeds going on uphills and trying to maintain the same speed (w/ or w/out cruise control) I feel the downshift obviously but that has nothing to do with the VCM.
Having said that I agree with "thegraduate"'s comment that if his auto light off is not working right that does not mean Honda has a bad auto off on all its cars. Actually it seems like this thread is becoming more of a "Bash Honda" than try to fix VCM issues for those who have it. Several people have suggested that those with VCM issues report back with their efforts working w/ Honda in resolving the issue and except one (or two?) the others just keep on bashing the VCM and not providing ant specifics on contacting the dealer and the status. I am wondering what is the relative technical knowledge of the people who adamently are claiming VCM can not perform properly as designed by Honda. It is a relatively new technology but why some think it is not doable, it is not more difficult than going to the moon, is it. I know someone was taking a survey on a Surveymonkey link he provided to get a tally of how many people are actually reporting issues with the VCM. I wonder how many people responded and when we'll get the results. I doubt many responded but I could be wrong. BTW, vibration could be from something else that is related to speed but not VCM, I know a friend of mine had a vibration problem on his older Accord (no VCM) and it got taken care of.
Accepted. When I said deny reality I do not suggest that those NOT having problems are denying the reality of their cars( and I AM happy for them), but that in attacking golfrsrki, me and others here with their personal attacks and how wonderful their cars are implies we are all supersenitive or imagining things wrong that don't exist - THAT is to deny reality. Reality is that numerous road testers have detected what we all have and our cars are apparently NOT unique and not operating outside "normal:" range,but that the VCM HAS some kinks to be worked out. I am only sorry Honda chose to "pull a General Motors" and use its custoimers as the Guinea pigs in this experient.
Think about it now, and I wish Ihad done so more before buying the "08 vs an '07 - you are going from two cylinders operating in the front bank and two in the rear, to none and three in the rear bank alone - there have to serious engine rocking and vibration issues with that transition and especially with the frequency with which it occurs. A daunting engineering task to address - I too thought if anyone could solve that problem it would be Honda. Unfortunately I put blind faith in them and did not test the car at all - I thought, HEY, IT'S A HONDA!!!! I have owned 12 of them with virtually no problems ever. What could be wrong? Well, I and others have found out - plenty. And that numerous testers have sensed and been annoyed by the same behavior merely confirms what others deny - there is a preponderance of evidence accumulating from owners and road testers that Honda has a BIG problem on its hands - because, assuming these cars are all "normal" - their dirveability will cause the market place to avoid them like the plague. The Camry V6 is smooth as butter, and seemingly more powerful with quicker acceleration times.
If you are in the DC area, check internet pricing for the car - Koons in Manassas, Hendrick in Woodbridge, and my personal friend, Tim Pohanka in Marlowe Heights, Md will all give you a GREAT deal - I had quotes on my '08 EXL V6 Sedan w/o nav of $25,950 including destination charge, door edge guards, wheel locks, wheel well trim. Be sure you deal with the Internet people only. Try the car with cruise control on at 60, etc.- and the vibration will vary - kind of like a "shudder" when you go out into the cold. It is not constant - only when it changes modes, but that too happens often enough to make it, on my car at least, annoying.
I have NEVER driven another car that behaves like the '08 VCM Accord, and I hate it as everyone here knows. I wish you luck. You have my empathy - for what that is worth.
As someone said here before, it doesn't matter if these articles are facts or not or what your are complaining about is true or not, what really matter is if Honda comes out with a TSB in regards to this issue. In order for Honda to do this, you have to personally let them know. Again, go to the dealer and let them investigate your concerns. That is the first step and nothing more.
We, current owners of 8th Gen Accord, are also interested since we might encounter this problem in the future.
you are DEAD ON... everything you are dealing with is identical to me, juts another validation. when i hit the gas pedal and the car goes into 6 mode it is truly smooth as silk and i almost sigh with relief!!!
give us an ON/OFF OD-like button HONDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then we can decide how and when we want to "Go-Green" and at what price.
This is ludicrous.
Have you indeed gone back to the dealer and written honda to open a case??
btw, has anyone seen the new Acura 09 RL... awesome, much more in price but 3.7L and NO VCM...
I dont get the point of this VCM V6. It doesnt have any significant mileage advantages over the competition so whats the point? :confuse:
I bet it was purely a marketing decision because it makes the car "seem" greener since Toyota and Nissan make Hybrid Camry and Altima.
I drove 2 EX-L V6's yesterday. Freeway driving - cruise control - slight / rolling hills. In the first car cruising at ~64-65 I could feel the car doing something. It almost felt like it was downshifting. Didn't feel any vibration as some have mentioned. While looking at the tachometer - I could see it was kind of bouncing between 1500 and 2000 RPMs. This is all with cruise control on - not touching the accelerator. I have to say however, that if I had not read this forum I probably would not have noticed or would have thought it was something on the highway or that the vehicle had shifted for whatever reason. It was not really that bad (still the markety material is wrong and Honda should fix it!)
The second one - took on the same route. Didn't notice a thing. So in my mind this is validated for the most part. I tried negotiating on this one. Offered 1000 over invoice (I know). Dealer wouldn't do it - said it's not an invoice vehicle...I'll save that story for the prices paid forum however..
Duke
You know what phantomv? When you state something like this, in combination with your previous rants, you invalidate everything you have been complaining about and you lose credibility. We understand everything you have said about VCM; we have read all the same articles and write-ups on the 08 Accord as you have. We are not denying anything that has been said or experienced by those who have problems with their 08 V6 VCM. There is a due process for you to follow, starting with your Honda dealer service department, and yet you refuse to bring it to their attention. It's quite puzzling to many of us. :confuse:
I am glad for you that you have nothing better to do than take your car to a dealership, write letters and make phone calls to Honda. See, I don't know how many Hondas you have ever owned and you and many others here are missing my points, but , alas, I don't suppose you ever will "get them".
First, the point of buying a Honda is to not have these kinds of problems! I spent my life at the BMW dealer with our '86 524TD ( the car was in the shop 10 days once waiting for parts - not me) and ultimately sold it to someone who lived far away from me - thank God. What a nightmare - what did we buy? An '88 Legend. Fabulous car that NEVER went back to the dealer, as our '81 and '83 Hondas, between them, had only gone back once. The remaining 10 Honda products with from 3,000 - 180,000 miles on each NEVER needed to go back to the dealer other than for routine maintenance. The '88 Legend was totaled - my wife was alone with the kids, hit black ice, hit a guard rail on an interstate, bounced back into the roadway, the driver's side was broadsied by a van, and the car ended up against the center guard rail - thank God that car protected my wife and kids in the process - not one scratch. We bought a '93 Dodge Intrepid because of its roominess, and my FIL worked for Chysler. At 34,000 miles EVERYTHING started going wrong - transmission, timing belt, water pump, the entire front suspension, the flywheel cracked - the dealer had the car more than we did and I did something I had never done with a used car - took it to a corner used car dealer and asked - what'll you give me? I could never, in good conscience, have sold that car to anyone. We went back to Honda again - 1997 V6 and have never looked back - we had learned our lessons with other cars versus Honda products. At least I thought.
The other point? Why bother taking a car back to the dealer when its problems are so well documented by reviewers, and others here who HAVE done that, as "normal" operation?
I will however call my friend - that is pretty effortless.
Here is another advice. Have you tried resetting the ECU? Maybe the fix is as simple as that.
By the way, some of your postings do suggest that you are "excited, declamatory and such" especially when you are using CAPS to prove your point. For some of us, it is a rant. This is not a personnal attack, just an advice.
Also, sir, I would like to ask you to stop sending me those e-mails. I don't know how to block you but I am asking you as a fellow member of this forum.