Just looked at Honda sales numbers for Feb. Accord sales down 13%. YTD they are down 10%. (They don't break it down by 4I or 6 cyl) Overall for 2008 there have been 51600 Accords sold. Based on what I personally see on the road, the majority would be the 4I (guessing 80/20 4I vs 6 cyc). Not sure what is driving the numbers but when I see the same car I have go down $1200 in 6 weeks, that tells me something is up.
I don't work in the sales department so I don't know the exact numbers. I will tell you that we can't even keep the V6 accords on site because thats how fast they are selling off our lot. The comments you are making are rather humorous. You are implying that I said VCM issues are fake. I'm just giving an example. I saw another person post that we aren't even sure if it's a widespread problem. I simply stated I live in a large city and the flow of cars coming in and out of the dealer is massive. We are also the only honda dealer in this area. So you can imagine how many we see. Maybe southern california just hasn't experienced these issues. Maybe it's a certain manufacturer. There is Canadian, USA, Japan, Mexico and Great Britain vehicles. With time we will know more. Honda will not ignore the issues. They are pretty darn good about keeping there reputation. I would give it some time and let them investigate.
"Reality is that relatively FEW Accords with VCM are on the road, yet there are reported issues everywhere."
Hello all. I just purchased a new 08 V6 Accord Sedan EX with VCM. The car has 22 miles on it. It gets a 1200 mile round trip this weekend.
I have not noticed the VCM shift on the highway at 60 to 70 MPH with cruise set. I have noticed the VCM shift (change) at 45 MPH on a local highway with the cruise set. In local traffic, stop and go, I have not noticed the VCM shift, but know it is occuring due to the ECO light. The light is more a more a bother than some thing I need. The blinking on and off is distracting. I'm sure I will get used to it.
Dont take it as a personal attack. I am just pointing out that you,(and others who discount this issue), are making nothing but generalizations yourself based on the perceived size of your dealership and how many V6 Accords you are assuming they sold. You are in a unique position. You could actually go to the service department and check the records to see what, if any, complaints have actually come in and let us know. It should also be pretty easy to find out how many 08 V6 auto Accords have been moved through your dealership so far rather than assuming its been thousands so there is really no need for us to "imagine" how many you see. Get the real scoop. Keep us posted!
I work in a large office. I now know three people who have purchased the 6-cyl., 08 Accords with VCM technology. They all know I have the 08 4-cyl and so we talk about our cars. All the cars now have between 3k and 7k miles.
Recently, I asked all three what they thought of the VCM. None of them knew much about it -- but two said they like it, one said "what is VCM?" I then told them about this forum and all the complaints that have been lodged against the VCM. That was two weeks ago.
In the past two weeks, all three have taken road trips. Today, I asked, so, "what do you think about VCM now?" The unanimous answer -- "we noticed it - but we like it." None of these owners are "drivers" and none of them are into cars. They just want reliable transportation.
As has been said by most posters making the observation I just made --- I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH VCM. However, if my little study is representative, which it may not be, then Honda's failure to treat this like it is a major design flaw is predictable.
I work in the parts dept and have talked to the service dept. Zero issues so far about the VCM. I had a long talk with the service manager about this same issue. We just haven't seen it here. Have not came across it. If we do come across it then it will be dealt with and looked into he told me. Asked sales for kicks, avg we have sold about 900 08 Accords since september. Mix of V6 and V4 im assuming, he wasnt specific.
"Asked sales for kicks, avg we have sold about 900 08 Accords since september. Mix of V6 and V4 im assuming, he wasnt specific."
Uh...a Honda V4?? Considering that response, I have to assume everything else you have posted as fiction. Or, if a Honda parts guy thinks they make a V4, all Honda owners are in seroius trouble!!! :P
Wow! You're pretty hard on someone who just made a simple typo. You'd better hope that never happens to you or we'll have to assume everything else you've posted as fiction!
Yeah... sorry about that. You are probably right - a mere typo - but a pretty serious one! I can understand typso ( :P ), but a V4? I's and V's are not even close to each other on the keyboard, nor are V and 4 transposed!
Folks,,, I dont know how many times i need to say this and then to see 20 more posts make the statement that Honda wont talk about it. THEY HAVE TOLD ME THAT "THEY ARE AWARE OF THE CONCERN, THEY KNOW ISSUES WITH THE VCM EXSIST AND THERE IS CURRENTLY NO FIX OR RESOLUTION,HOWEVER THEY ARE WORKING ON IT."
So,m they are aware, its no secret and they have no fix... i guess what i am trying to say again is those that keep saying the issue doesnt exsists are not listening... its does and Honda has admitted it to me.. then they backed off it calling it normal characteristic of the design... mixed messages for sure..
I have nothing to gain by talking about it other than a resolution to my personal issue and hopefully others...those that are posting here saying they work for Honda cmon already......we're pretty educated people.
Okay, forgive me for missing stuff, because with all that I read each day all over the entire Sedans board, I do forget what's been said before.
Were you able to demonstrate the bucking and surging (I think that was another poster's description, feel free to correct me if that does not describe your issue) to a service person at your dealership? And then they told you that was normal?
Have you tried any other dealerships? Have you been able to get a Honda representative (not a dealership representative) to observe the problem?
Again, I'm sorry, I'm sure you've already explained these things and I'm not asking because I don't believe you, I'm asking in an effort to help clarify your situation all in one place.
Just got the V6 EX-L AT coupe. Production date 01/08. Drove 45 min including highway and side streets coming home. I have been following this thread and took notice while driving. Yes there was a MINOR vibration when Eco light went on. The car in general is not the quietest, and it seemed by the end of the trip the vibration became second nature and I stopped noticing it. If Honda does not fix this "problem", I can certainly live with it what I've felt so far. Who knows down the road.
Also, someone had mentioned that the headlights flicker when turning on the AC? I didn't notice any flickering with AC turning on/off.
" ...those that are posting here saying they work for Honda cmon already......we're pretty educated people. "
Never once said you weren't educated. Is this not what these forums are for? If you don't want my 2 cents then Iet me know. I work there and can probably help out in the long run. As of now, no issues here yet. Im still asking questions and trying to see what Honda is doing about it. If you don't need my help and opinions let me know and I will keep them to myself or email the people who do want it.
HI, yes, your input is part of this board, it will help in the long run and if you note a problem at your dealership please let us know ...its' would help to figure this puzzle out........opened a case with Honda America today regarding steering wheel vibration at highway speed....vibration is noticed in 3 cly mode at 60-75 mile per.......step on the gas go to 6 cly mode vibration goes away....
Yep, 2 dealers, 2 service managers one Regional Honda rep, and Honda Customer relations... oh and two Honda dealer tenured mechanics......all agreed with me, all said they felt the surging and lurching believe its the VCM and felt the excessive vibration. However anyone that has ever delt with honda will know that the Honda rep holds the key. If he doesnt want to do anything or feels its normal (per Honda) then that is the gospel and so its is said by customer relations...
now all of a sudden its normal and its a normal characteristic of the vehicle..
Okay, one other thought - have you asked each of the other dealerships to let you test drive other VCM-equipped Accords to see if they behave the same way? If not, that might be worth a try. Maybe find a third dealership to try that out in addition to, or instead of, the ones you've been working with.
Let me be sure I have this straight. These two service managers, one regional Honda rep, two dealer tenured mechanics have all experienced the surging, lurching and vibration, acknowledged those symptoms to the degree you experience them, and then declared them to be normal? It can only be normal if it happens in every single other VCM-equipped Accord and from what we are seeing here, that does not seem to be the case.
Again, not disbelieving you and your experiences at all. But there seems to be a difference in how the VCM Accords are behaving from what we are reading here and, unfortunately, you may just have to keep hunting for a car that behaves correctly and then demonstrate that your car's behavior is sub-par to the one that you find.
I'm sorry. Tough position to be in, no doubt about it. Keep us posted.
I think this is a perception issue. I'm certain Honda "screwed" virtually all these engines together properly. I'm also sure that most drivers don't notice,or mind, the vibrations. I would mind. The fact that Honda had to design special motor mounts to quell the vibrations says it all. It was a bad engineering call that made it to production. I really would not let some tech mess with my motor or mounts if I owned one of these,it's just the nature of the beast. I did see that there was a transmission software update to smooth one of the shifts,maybe this will help some owners. Just my .02.
Thanks for your thoughts, but unless you have driven a car owned by someone who has the problem and can observe the problem for yourself, you can't know that it is a perception issue.
Can you share more information about the transmission software update?
You have my sympathies golfrski, and I do not doubt your experience for a minute as it seems others do here. Sure they can drive another car that does not do what yours does - they won't change their tune. That is just wrong. Anyone who has been through this type of thing with a car knows you are telling the truth - they stonewall, stonewall and the Japanese are notorious for it - it took a class action suit against Toyota about the Camry tranmissions to get them to do anything.
I got the tranny shift info off another board. The poster has a V6 auto that has bad shifting issues between 2nd and 3rd. She went to a tech and he told her that Honda was working on a fix. No date on when that would be released.
Yes I have been there done that too Pat. I have driven 5 other V6 accords with diff production dates from Oct - Jan 08. At 3 diff dealers and ALL had the surging/lurching hyperactivity... and all the sales people denied knowing anything about it or having any customers complain. HOWEVER, not all had the vibration issues issues to the degree of mine. 3 did 2 were much less noticeable. I guess my concern here is this... I have Honda admitting to me that they are aware of this issue and that there is "no fix" for it. In fact, the Honda Rep said " well of course the VCM is noticeable and not seamless"! total contradiction from Honda marketing I also have been told that Honda engineering is working on it... why would Honda be looking to fix a "normal operating" function? I have had several Honda techs tell me this is an issue...
I posted on www.justanswer.com to 6 online Honda techs and got no reply over 2 days. Previous to that I had gotten a reply from Babylon, NY saying they were reprogramming the transmissions with some success, but my follow up was met with silence :confuse: .
Itochu---I think it is fine that you support or not support another poster with your own opinions about the technology or vehicle design or a good/bad experience they've had. That is what this forum is about, and there are many good comments along those lines. But when you start to offer your generalized opinions about other forum members or about a particular ethnicity (comments like "sure they can drive another car....they won't change their tune" or "they stonewall, stonewall and the Japanese are notorious for it"), I think you start to cross the line. I would suggest that you not generalize about other members of this forum, or make broad statements about a particular ethnicity (ie: "the Japanese"). Just give us the facts and your opinions about the technology, along with your personal experiences to the extent it educates us. I don't mean to get politically correct, but I think you are out of line by suggesting that "the Japanese notoriously stonewall" or offer generalizations about other forum members. You jumped all over that guy over the V4 comment and I thought you were unnecessarily harsh on a minor point. Make sense?
Sorry if I was not clear re the VCM and "perception". The point was, most casual drivers won't notice or object to some small amount of vibration. More astute drivers,such as on this board,notice and object to this less than smooth operation. I believe the problem exists and support these posters frustrated by this, I would be one of them had I bought one. But I don't believe something is broken that can be "fixed" by my local yokel honda tech,so I would not let them touch my car. My point was don't let them damage your car with wrenches when the problem is really a design problem.
Sorry - no ethnic slur intended - check my name! I should have phrased it this way - the business model of the Japanese manufacturers when faced with issues and their cars is to stonewall - in my opinion. It is not an ethnic slur - these manufacturers are headquartered in Japan - so what are they? Japanese manufacturers.
This is now what is happening to me. The American Honda rep finally got back to me, and in a voice mail basically gave me the big middle finger. He said that if the dealership said the car is operating normally, then there is nothing American Honda can do. He said my only choice is to take it to another dealership; if they say it's operating normally, then I will have "peace of mind" that indeed everything is ok, and if they decide it's not normal, they can try a warranty repair. Anyone want to take a guess as to which way a second dealership would come out?
Like I said - stonewalling. It is the company line right now that you are all experiencing. SOL unless you can get the lemon law to apply - and it seems from another post here that some states require 3 attempts to establish a "lemon" :lemon: , dealerships know it, your VIN is in ALL their computers, so no surprise - two visits and they won't even look at your car again. They will look it up in the computer - see its history - and not even take it in telling you it has been seen twice and the car is operating normally. I would put money on it.
Presumably you can go into 3 different dealerships. I don't think the lemon law, at least in my state, requires that you visit the same dealership. Perhaps you couldn't name the dealership as a defendant, since it didn't have 3 bites at the apple, but if the Honda corporate reps are telling us (as they did me) to take it to a different dealership, Honda would be in a hard position to argue that you lose b/c you didn't take it to the same dealership.
Sure would be interesting to get discovery in a lemon law suit about complaints made to Honda about these issues.
PS -- you are absolutely right about the stonewalling. I understand it is the approach many companies like to take because they think it is cost-effective, but it is penny-wise and pound-foolish. Honda will ultimately come out with a fix for these issues, but in the meantime will have lost previously loyal customers and their referral business.
HI,Honda America called me back withen 24 hr,and has set up a time for a test drive by a Honda tec....next week.....will keep you informed on what we find out about vibration at highway speed...........i will drive until vibration is felt in 3 cly mode and then the rep will drive to also feel the vibration.
Seriously, Honda needs to have a class action suit filed against them on this. That's what it took for Toyota to own up to the 6 speed automatic transmission problems they had with the Gen 6 Camrys.
If Honda (or their dealership service departments) continue to claim this is "normal" operation for the VCM system, it totally goes against their claims in advertising literature.
At this point, I would gladly accept a 4 cylinder EX-L with a refund of the price difference between it and the 6 cylinder model. If Honda would be agreeable to that, I would still consider purchasing cars from them in the future. With the exception of VCM, the Accord is a fantastic vehicle.
"At this point, I would gladly accept a 4 cylinder EX-L with a refund of the price difference between it and the 6 cylinder model. If Honda would be agreeable to that, I would still consider purchasing cars from them in the future. With the exception of VCM, the Accord is a fantastic vehicle."
Me too. And I would add in the depreciation on the vehicle at the IRS reimbursement rates. But I fear that it will take a class action before Honda owns up to the issues that have been discussed on this forum.
Certainly seems like a reasonable proposal to me! At this point I believe many others here would do the same. As for me - well, I will have to drive the 4 again. I know how capable and sophisticated Honda 4's are, but 190 HP pulling around 3300 + pounds - remember - that is curb weight. Put a couple of people in there and you are over 3600 pounds. In my opinion that is a lot of weight for a 4, AND may be the reason behind some of the fuel economy figures I have been reading about - below 20 all around! Any car that is underpowered will deliver poorer fuel economy because the engine has to work so hard. A friend of my father's worked for GM and always told him to get the 348 instead of the 283 because with the 283 2 Bbl. V8 the old Chevies that weighed 4000+ were underpowered and actually got worse fuel economy. He was right.
Actually that might not be so great a "solution". I am reading about an apparently serious electrical problem with the 4's with lights - alll of them - flickering every 20 seconds or so when the A/C cycles off and on. Check the Accord Sedan and Coupe forum. Just as many complaining there about that as here about VCM. Seems the electrical system is overloaded but I am no mechanic or engineer, but that is crazy!
Put a couple of people in there and you are over 3600 pounds. In my opinion that is a lot of weight for a 4,
Having taken a 2000 mile road trip (Birmingham, AL to Oklahoma City, OK) in my 166hp Accord I can tell ya that it is plenty quick for safe passing and high-speed economy. There were three of us (2 200lb guys and a ~130 lb girl), and our luggage for a week (the trunk was full). We averaged 35 MPG, and ran 75-80 MPH the whole way. Never had a shortage of power for passing or merging.
My weight for the car would've been between about 3900 lbs (~3200 + 520 + luggage + fuel).
What 4 cyl Honda do you have that weighs 3200 pounds??! '08? Because my friend's 2007 Accord V6 weighs about 3300 pounds, I do not know but I would suspect that a 7th generation 4 might even be < 3000 pounds.
And I agree - at higher highway speeds Honda 4s perform fine. But a quick pass on a 2 lane hghway? Acccelerate onto an interstate from 30-70 with 166 HP and , as you say, 3900 lbs? Sorry - not enought grunt for me - I would find that scary. But I am used to more than adequate power from V8s and V6s. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree - our comfort levels are very different.
I have seen 0-60 in 8.2 for the 190 HP sedan with 5 speed. 166 Hp with 3900 pounds? 0-60 in ? 12-13 seconds? Out of my comfort zone.
I too have posted here about my VCM problem with my 2008 Coupe AT which currently has about 1800 miles on it. I had a meeting with the GM of Midlands Honda in Columbia, SC about it and he amazingly agreed to switch out my car with a 6-spd manual coupe. As any of you know these are rare cars to find out there and especially a black on black EX-L Coupe. He is giving me exactly what I paid for my A/T coupe in trade (No depreciation folks on my trade) and he is selling me the 6-spd for the same price I bought the A/T one for which was a couple hundred over invoice. NOW can you say CUSTOMER SERVICE. The dealer could have easily said not my problem and devalued my car a few thousand in the trade as you all are all too aware can happen in trade even on a new one. My new 2008 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V6 6-spd will be built the 3rd week of March and be shipped to my dealer at the end of this month and I can't wait to turn the keys over to them on my A/T coupe and say goodbye to VCM. They were able to do a dealer swap on paper to ship this one to them. I wish all of you the best with this VCM problem or you have a dealer like mine that knows how to treat their customers with service after the sale when you have a problem. I can't say enough good about the great people at Midlands Honda. They stated they wanted me to be happy with my purchase and they proved it with their actions.
We got off point about isellhondas suggestion that people who don't like the VCM buy an I4, and then a subsequent exchange that the I4 does not necessarily have enough power for some people. .
I have personal experience with Midlands Honda as well - and you are absolutely right - they are a quality organization - upstanding, and will do right by their customers. Beleive me - THEY will now take this up with Honda and get compensated, but when the dealers have to start taking these cars back to keep their customers happy and avoid bad publicity THEN you will see a response from Honda. Unfortunately a 6 speed MT coupe will not meet the needs of a family of 4 and a mom who drives AT only. Great news for you - enjoy your new car - only one comment - having lived in Columbia on Heyward Street near USC for 6 months one year and through a Summer - black/black!!!!???? YIKES - that car will be hot! :surprise: .
Do you really think they will take this up with Honda? They will probably just re sell it. They took the car back..Still have a new sale at over invoice, will re-sell the auto for Invoice or a few hundred under as slightly used still making a nice profit. It should be easy to sell a slightly used V6 coupe since so few are discounted yet.
You are lucky to have that kind of a deal. I decided to trade in my silver AT EX-L V6 4DR (1400 miles) couple weeks ago for a black 08 Pilot EX-L (non-Nav) that had 6500 miles on it. The deal was not as good as yours but I expected that to happen.
I guess I was the first person at my dealership to trade in my new car within 2 months. I lost $4k for my Accord (trade in value for $24k - it was bought on 12/26/07). Originally, I went there trying to get more info from the salesperson and the service manager about the VCM issue. They did not hear anything from Honda nor from others who bought the V6 (the service manager told me previously that Honda said the VCM switching is normal...). Since I figure I would be getting nowhere, I decided to take the loss.
I must say that my salesman was nice and professional. He spent almost 3 hours with us. He just went for lunch when my wife and I went there and the manager/owner called him and he came right back. He had us tried out an I4 08 Accord EX (190 HP), a 08 CR-V, and the Pilot. I liked the Pilot the most and I pulled the trigger on it. Everything on the Pilot is great (I feel like I am working for the Secret Service now) except the cruise/volume controls on the steering wheel. They do not light up at night... Oh well...
The Pilot was considered new because the manager/owner's wife took it and drove it for a period of 6 months and put 6000 miles on it (I guess it is an advantage if your spouse is the owner of the dealership). I did not think it was a big deal because the vehicle was in good shape. I just considered it as someone broke in the vehicle for us. He took $3k off the Pilot from the MSRP so I ended up paying $31k. So I ended up losing $4k and paying almost another $7k... (at least I can use the Pilot to fit a soccer team inside)
Someone reading this probably thinks that I am nuts losing $4k on the vehicle. I look at this as a lesson I learned (an $$$ one). I know that a car depreciates once you sign the paper and the car gets out of the parking lot. I believe my car dealership has done a fair job (may not be excellent). They worked with me on the issue and tried to give me options. My salesman even told me to hold on to both cars for a while but I made the decision (no one is going to say no if I am going to give them business). Personally, I wasn't going to spend my time with Honda on something that may never be resolved.
I probably will trade my wife's red one in for a 08 CR-V, or a 08 Accord I4 EX-L. I will have to pay $1500 for the I4 and I am not sure about the CR-V...
I am just trying to be positive on this situation and to not loss all my hair over it.
Can you tell the difference if a car is running 3 cylinders vs 6 cylinders (or a Cheetah running with 4 legs vs 2 legs)? Of course you can! That is the bottom line that I made the switch.
Comments
"Reality is that relatively FEW Accords with VCM are on the road, yet there are reported issues everywhere."
No issues here yet, but I will keep you posted.
I have not noticed the VCM shift on the highway at 60 to 70 MPH with cruise set. I have noticed the VCM shift (change) at 45 MPH on a local highway with the cruise set. In local traffic, stop and go, I have not noticed the VCM shift, but know it is occuring due to the ECO light. The light is more a more a bother than some thing I need. The blinking on and off is distracting. I'm sure I will get used to it.
You are in a unique position.
You could actually go to the service department and check the records to see what, if any, complaints have actually come in and let us know. It should also be pretty easy to find out how many 08 V6 auto Accords have been moved through your dealership so far rather than assuming its been thousands so there is really no need for us to "imagine" how many you see. Get the real scoop.
Keep us posted!
Recently, I asked all three what they thought of the VCM. None of them knew much about it -- but two said they like it, one said "what is VCM?" I then told them about this forum and all the complaints that have been lodged against the VCM. That was two weeks ago.
In the past two weeks, all three have taken road trips. Today, I asked, so, "what do you think about VCM now?" The unanimous answer -- "we noticed it - but we like it." None of these owners are "drivers" and none of them are into cars. They just want reliable transportation.
As has been said by most posters making the observation I just made --- I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH VCM. However, if my little study is representative, which it may not be, then Honda's failure to treat this like it is a major design flaw is predictable.
Uh...a Honda V4?? Considering that response, I have to assume everything else you have posted as fiction. Or, if a Honda parts guy thinks they make a V4, all Honda owners are in seroius trouble!!! :P
Uh...noooooooo - flat six, yes.
It doesn't have VCM anyway.
So,m they are aware, its no secret and they have no fix... i guess what i am trying to say again is those that keep saying the issue doesnt exsists are not listening... its does and Honda has admitted it to me.. then they backed off it calling it normal characteristic of the design... mixed messages for sure..
I have nothing to gain by talking about it other than a resolution to my personal issue and hopefully others...those that are posting here saying they work for Honda cmon already......we're pretty educated people.
Were you able to demonstrate the bucking and surging (I think that was another poster's description, feel free to correct me if that does not describe your issue) to a service person at your dealership? And then they told you that was normal?
Have you tried any other dealerships? Have you been able to get a Honda representative (not a dealership representative) to observe the problem?
Again, I'm sorry, I'm sure you've already explained these things and I'm not asking because I don't believe you, I'm asking in an effort to help clarify your situation all in one place.
Also, someone had mentioned that the headlights flicker when turning on the AC? I didn't notice any flickering with AC turning on/off.
Never once said you weren't educated. Is this not what these forums are for? If you don't want my 2 cents then Iet me know. I work there and can probably help out in the long run. As of now, no issues here yet. Im still asking questions and trying to see what Honda is doing about it. If you don't need my help and opinions let me know and I will keep them to myself or email the people who do want it.
Please skip the posts you don't care to read, but remember that someone out there might just want to read that post. This goes for everyone.
now all of a sudden its normal and its a normal characteristic of the vehicle..
we are beside ourselves.
Let me be sure I have this straight. These two service managers, one regional Honda rep, two dealer tenured mechanics have all experienced the surging, lurching and vibration, acknowledged those symptoms to the degree you experience them, and then declared them to be normal? It can only be normal if it happens in every single other VCM-equipped Accord and from what we are seeing here, that does not seem to be the case.
Again, not disbelieving you and your experiences at all. But there seems to be a difference in how the VCM Accords are behaving from what we are reading here and, unfortunately, you may just have to keep hunting for a car that behaves correctly and then demonstrate that your car's behavior is sub-par to the one that you find.
I'm sorry. Tough position to be in, no doubt about it. Keep us posted.
Can you share more information about the transmission software update?
I should have phrased it this way - the business model of the Japanese manufacturers when faced with issues and their cars is to stonewall - in my opinion.
It is not an ethnic slur - these manufacturers are headquartered in Japan - so what are they? Japanese manufacturers.
Sure would be interesting to get discovery in a lemon law suit about complaints made to Honda about these issues.
PS -- you are absolutely right about the stonewalling. I understand it is the approach many companies like to take because they think it is cost-effective, but it is penny-wise and pound-foolish. Honda will ultimately come out with a fix for these issues, but in the meantime will have lost previously loyal customers and their referral business.
If Honda (or their dealership service departments) continue to claim this is "normal" operation for the VCM system, it totally goes against their claims in advertising literature.
At this point, I would gladly accept a 4 cylinder EX-L with a refund of the price difference between it and the 6 cylinder model. If Honda would be agreeable to that, I would still consider purchasing cars from them in the future. With the exception of VCM, the Accord is a fantastic vehicle.
Me too. And I would add in the depreciation on the vehicle at the IRS reimbursement rates. But I fear that it will take a class action before Honda owns up to the issues that have been discussed on this forum.
Having taken a 2000 mile road trip (Birmingham, AL to Oklahoma City, OK) in my 166hp Accord I can tell ya that it is plenty quick for safe passing and high-speed economy. There were three of us (2 200lb guys and a ~130 lb girl), and our luggage for a week (the trunk was full). We averaged 35 MPG, and ran 75-80 MPH the whole way. Never had a shortage of power for passing or merging.
My weight for the car would've been between about 3900 lbs (~3200 + 520 + luggage + fuel).
Basically, I beg to differ.
This belongs in the I4 vs V6 forum doesn't it?
And I agree - at higher highway speeds Honda 4s perform fine. But a quick pass on a 2 lane hghway? Acccelerate onto an interstate from 30-70 with 166 HP and , as you say, 3900 lbs? Sorry - not enought grunt for me - I would find that scary. But I am used to more than adequate power from V8s and V6s. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree - our comfort levels are very different.
I have seen 0-60 in 8.2 for the 190 HP sedan with 5 speed. 166 Hp with 3900 pounds? 0-60 in ? 12-13 seconds? Out of my comfort zone.
I guess I was the first person at my dealership to trade in my new car within 2 months.
I must say that my salesman was nice and professional. He spent almost 3 hours with us. He just went for lunch when my wife and I went there and the manager/owner called him and he came right back. He had us tried out an I4 08 Accord EX (190 HP), a 08 CR-V, and the Pilot. I liked the Pilot the most and I pulled the trigger on it. Everything on the Pilot is great (I feel like I am working for the Secret Service now) except the cruise/volume controls on the steering wheel. They do not light up at night... Oh well...
The Pilot was considered new because the manager/owner's wife took it and drove it for a period of 6 months and put 6000 miles on it (I guess it is an advantage if your spouse is the owner of the dealership). I did not think it was a big deal because the vehicle was in good shape. I just considered it as someone broke in the vehicle for us. He took $3k off the Pilot from the MSRP so I ended up paying $31k. So I ended up losing $4k and paying almost another $7k... (at least I can use the Pilot to fit a soccer team inside)
Someone reading this probably thinks that I am nuts losing $4k on the vehicle. I look at this as a lesson I learned (an $$$ one). I know that a car depreciates once you sign the paper and the car gets out of the parking lot. I believe my car dealership has done a fair job (may not be excellent). They worked with me on the issue and tried to give me options. My salesman even told me to hold on to both cars for a while but I made the decision (no one is going to say no if I am going to give them business). Personally, I wasn't going to spend my time with Honda on something that may never be resolved.
I probably will trade my wife's red one in for a 08 CR-V, or a 08 Accord I4 EX-L. I will have to pay $1500 for the I4 and I am not sure about the CR-V...
I am just trying to be positive on this situation and to not loss all my hair over it.
Can you tell the difference if a car is running 3 cylinders vs 6 cylinders (or a Cheetah running with 4 legs vs 2 legs)? Of course you can! That is the bottom line that I made the switch.