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Honda Accord VCM



  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    Well, at least the owners here only paid about $26,000 - 30,000 for the privilege of the aggravations THEY are experiencing with VCM - a bargain! :P
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    Idiots! This does not make any sense at all and shows who is really driving the ship. The marketing division will be shut down as soon as the lawsuits come out for fraud on the current Accord VCM. They should leave the car building to the engineers. A V8 with VCM - what a contradiction. For $70k I want something that moves, I'm not worried about gas savings. And for those who wanted the VCM turned off or to have an on/off button, I think you can forget it after this announcement.
  • jam1000jam1000 Posts: 182
    Can you point me to the post where Honda (i.e., American Honda Motor Co.) admitted to noticeable issues with VCM in 30% of the '08 Accords that have it? I missed it, and an official acknowledgement of that will probably help me in my own tribulations. Thanks.
  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    But a V8 that reduced to 4cyl activation would still be a balanced engine -- right???? So, maybe VCM would work much more smoothly in a V8? [It makes logical sense that the biggest problem with the VCM in the V6 Accords is the very unbalanced 3cyl. operation.]
  • steevosteevo Posts: 383
    Consider this... The RL will be REAR wheel drive. So the engine will not be transverse mounted and it is likely the VCM will deactivate down to 6 or 4 rear most cylinders. Shouldnt require the funky vibration and sound dampening parts. My guess is it will be a much better application with a V8.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    Setting aside the issues with the current V6 Accord, why would someone who is buying that car at that price care about fuel economy?????? Look at the pics, and the price. It is basically a sports car and does not need the VCM. It seems to me the marketing team is making decisions that are so far off what people are wanting. If it does come out, we'll see what the sales numbers are? I would be willing to bet the numbers are very low. V8 - good. Rear wheel drive - good. Looks (as of now) good. VCM - sales killer.
  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    I respectfully disagree ---- RL customers are into technology - and the RL is marketed to showcase technology. I don't view RL customers as sport car guys/gals who care only about performance. Rather, they want a damn fancy touring sedan and they aren't hung up on European brand names. They want a car that is VERY nice and they are willing to pay for amenities and technology. Frankly, I don't think Acura can beat BMW or Mercedes in the brand recognition arena, so they have to find a way to distinguish themselves. Personally, I think VCM is a great way to do that.. . . . . particularly if VCM can be implemented in a V8 without the issues it presents in a V6.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    No, that is incorrect. The next RL will be on the rear drive platform (vs the current FWD architecture), but it will be offered with all wheel drive. Probably an advanced iteration of the "super handling" AWD system currently found on the RL, RDX, MDX, and upcoming TL.

    The real test is whether VCM will be offered across virtually all Acura offerings. Most notably the next TL will be the one to watch. If VCM is offered, that will be a significant development and a further acknowledgement that Honda believes that the technology works and has application to a broad audience spanning luxury and performance.

    Or, Honda will simply crash and burn in a flurry of lawsuits if a handful of people on this forum are correct. Time will tell.
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Posts: 275
    Regardless of a persons income and ability to afford a car like the RL, we should all care about fuel economy. The 2010 RL with a V8 will move the marque more upscale. Joe Well To Do can drive his wife to the latest PETA gathering where she can write a 5 digit donation to save some obscure creature, saving fuel in the process. The next day he can beat the b'jesus out of his RL to make his 12:00 tee time at the local country club. Fuel economy and get-up & go is the promise of VCM with the added benefit of lower emissions.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    Where do you get this figure and from what source? You are implying that Honda acknowledged this 30% but I perused the internet and I couldn't find anything that remotely acknowledge this figure. If it's coming from one of these posters, it's just that, an anecdote.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    So for $70K, you're willing to roll the dice on whether your car has any issues with the VCM? For $70k, you're open to the possibilty that you might have to spend quality time with the dealer for test drives, phone calls with Corp and tech lines in an effort to resolve any VCM issues. (Honda admits that 30% of the Accord's have issues with the VCM - I will confirm this on Thurs when I take mine back to the dealer for this issue) I wish you good luck if you decide to buy. And I can assure you people with $70K to spend on a car will not tolerate any VCM issues. They have the resources to fight a legal battle, maybe not so much for the Accord crowd.

    Just as an FYI - I was considering this car but decided against it because of $$. I went with the Accord and now 100% regret it. I have been working with the local Acura dealer to try and minimize my loss if I do a trade in. Acura/Lexus or Infiniti will be my next car here shortly. As soon as I can find the right deal. So long VCM!!!!!!
  • parvizparviz Posts: 484
    "...And I can assure you people with $70K to spend on a car will not tolerate any VCM issues. They have the resources to fight a legal battle, maybe not so much for the Accord crowd...."

    Assuming your prediction of the VCM failure on the RL (a big assumption), I don't think the well-off people would care about suing a car company. Just look at the reliability issues with all the big names including Range Rover, Jaguar, MB and BMW. How many law suits have you heard of, only jokes about how unreliable they are and life goes on.

    On a related note, I think technology and efficiency belongs where the luxury is as well, Cadillac Escalade is coming up with a hybrid version and we all know it is going to be pricey.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Setting aside the issues with the current V6 Accord, why would someone who is buying that car at that price care about fuel economy??????

    Those in the LS600h chose a hybrid over a V12 for the same money, so I'd say some apparently DO care about economy, even if it's not a matter of affording the gas or not.

    People paying over $50k for a Lexus RX400h or a GS Hybrid are paying lots for hybrid powertrains that improve economy (and performance) as well. Honda is doing the same, just with a different type of technology - having lots of power without the power penalty.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    I would beg to differ. If that was the case then the Accord Hybrid would still be around. They don't sell and this is Honda's way is sneaking it in the back door. I could see a BIG SUV or the Mini-Van with this type of VCM technology (I still don't agree with it) because I generally don't see those as "performance or racing type vehicles". I would have to research the models you quoted to know if there is a "hybrid" version and a non-hybrid version and see which sold more. But someone with a car like the RL would not spend that kind of money and have to deal with the VCM (Plus in my opinion there is a performance loss with the VCM. My car definetly does not pick up as fast as my old 2001 and I suspect that is because of the VCM) V8 means more about power and strength and less about mileage, especially with the change to rear wheel drive. Maybe they should put the VCM on the TL and leave the RL.

    Also - I need to find the website that did the dyno test on the new accord. It never did put out 260 horses, more like 230-240 and that was only when they ran the crap out of it, not something you could do on the normal highway.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I would beg to differ. If that was the case then the Accord Hybrid would still be around.

    Hold it, first you are talking about $70k cars not worrying about economy, then relate it to the plebian family-car Accord? I can't make much sense out of that one.

    They sell, or Lexus wouldn't still have these on the market, as the RX400h and its GS brother have been on sale for a nice little while now. Whether or not you'd buy one is a different story (you are obviously biased against VCM/MDS technology, which I don't have a problem with; it's still obviously a fact though). Other automakers don't have an issue with it in their large sedans (Impala, Chrysler LX platform sedans, etc).

    It never did put out 260 horses, more like 230-240 and that was only when they ran the crap out of it, not something you could do on the normal highway.

    First-of-all, all cars will have driveline losses from the flywheel to a dyno. A typical amount is 15% from what I understand. Second, what gas-powered family car DOES NOT have to be wound up to get the max amount of power? The Malibu's peak hp is at 6300 RPM. The Accord's is at 6000 RPM. Gas powered engines make their power peaks up high in the RPM range typically. In this class it shouldn't be a problem. Punch the pedal and you're there.

    I have an idea; why not create a topic based on the 2010 Acura RL VCM, if you'd like to continue discussing it. I just realized what this forum really is, and our discussion is headed off topic in a big hurry! :)
  • hank119hank119 Posts: 39
    If 70% don't have the problem how can someone find six cars in a row that do have the problem? Consider the probability.

    I am very sympathetic to the posters here who complained about VCM problems with the cars they actually own. But considering all the posts from the very few individuals who insist that VCM problems is wide spread and which they have determined through extensive testing of demonstrator vehicles, I have to consider myself extremely lucky.
    So lucky I should be considering investing heavily in Lottery tickets.

    Incidentally, itochu what color is your 2008 Honda Accord. Mine is White Diamond Pearl. I drive it a lot. Not just test drives.
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    Lucky me. Again - your questionning my experiences is an attempt to diminsh them. Like I said - I do not diminsh your pleasureable experiences. Exasperating.
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    A poster here cited Honda Technicians in California, his regional representative by Name, and even gave his case number for reference. His dealer, Midlands Honda exchanged out his car for a 6MT coupe. I am not going to go back looking for it - you can. This is not a courtroom and you are not the judge - got find it yourself. I don't have to show you evidence! Perhaps he will repost - it may be on the Honda Accord Sedan and Coupe forum. This is not anectdotal.

    POST 4979 Honda Accord Sedan and Coupe
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    There was a poster with a 2008 Coupe with AT and VCM who took it back to his dealer, Midlands Honda in Columbia, SC and they exchange out the carfor a MT coupe. He cited his regioanl rep by name who spoke with Honda technicians in CA who acknowledged 30% of the cars have "issues" but that Honda considers them within "normal" operating conditions. The poster cited the rep by name, phone number, and gave his case number invigint people to contact him.

    It is in this forum - within the past two weeks - or the Sedan and Coupe forum - same time frame.

    POST 4979 Honda Accord Sedan and Coupe
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    Ask your service rep to get ahold of David Kitchen, my area Honda service rep out of California, who is over North Carolina, South Carolina, and Missouri. He has definitely heard about the VCM issue. My Honda Tech, who felt the hunting and surging in my car and verified it contacted the online Tech help and they talked with Honda techs in California and they are aware of the VCM when they stated to him that about 30% of the cars they drive out there in California the VCM is felt more than other cars and they say at this time it's within the normal limits. My two page letter detailing what my car was doing that went to Honda in California was shared with the Honda Engineers last month as told to me by David Kitchen so yes Honda is aware of the VCM issue or whatever is related to that issue. I would assume that when these reps meet or have their own site to discuss issues they have all heard about the VCM issue unless they are not keeping in touch with their counterparts who represent other states. I will even give them my Honda Case # so they can look it up. Case # N012008-02-0600823
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Thanks itochu, but you need to make it clear when you are quoting someone else. Your post looks like it's coming directly from you.

    For everyone, here is the link to the post itochu copied and pasted in #1144: cody3764, "2008 Honda Accord Coupe and Sedan" #4979, 13 Mar 2008 12:14 pm

    For future reference, it couldn't be easier to link to another post here (although it could be way more obvious than it is, indeed ;)). All you need to do is right click on the post number, which is actually a link, and choose Copy or Copy Shortcut or whatever similar choice your browser provides.

    Then go to a new message, right-click and choose paste. You won't see all the fancy stuff until you post the message, but, just like that link above, it will be there then.

    Hope this helps!
  • jam1000jam1000 Posts: 182
    Thanks. I do remember this post now that you re-post it. I had forgotten that it mentioned a 30% number but, more importantly, that it referenced that an American Honda CSR was involved. Note, though, Mr. Kitchen's position that "they [Honda Tech Line] say at this time it's within the normal limits." So the corporate line is that it's an issue -- but not a problem -- 30% of the time. There's also no indication that anything is being done to address the issue (and presumably the answer is no, since it's not recognized as a problem). The poster in question was able to get out of the V6 and into an I4, as I recall, solely as an accommodation by the dealer, not by American Honda.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's just remember that we are going on a single third-hand report about what Honda corporate's position is. That does not make the statement of the postion dispositive, IMHO.

    That's not to say it should be written off, I just want all of us to keep a cool head about what we're reading. ;)
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    As I's anecdotal and I am not writing off cody's experience. But the 30% is debatable coming from a single source. By itochu's post, it seemed like Honda (corporate Honda) admitted to the 30% VCM problem but apparently, that was not the case.
  • Honda should not be able to say that the VCM being felt at all is within "normal" limits. They should be reminded of their own marketing language of "seamless", and "unnoticed". "Normal" should be nothing being felt whatsoever when VCM switches modes. I would think at some point that some type of legal action will be taken on this matter.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We don't know if that is the case or if that is not the case. We know that a member reported that his technician said that corporate Honda did admit to that. That's what we know.

    The reason I keep posting about this is that I'd like to help folks not to jump to conclusions. Take the words for what they are worth. Don't read more - or less - into them than what is there.

  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    itochu.... thank you for sharing and THANK YOU FOR THE COURAGE to share your info to us. Honda told me that they have had minimal people complaining about this car and any issue with VCM. I am here to tell everyone this is being covered up..... this is a much larger issue and I have spoken to Honda Engineers that say this is an issue... Its a ashame that some of us will get hosed in this process... what a lesson learned. I drove my buddies Maxima today and I do not like toyota's but it drove like a dream compared to my V6 08 Accord... a dream....
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Until Honda releases an official statement, if they ever do, it's all hearsay.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I drove my buddies Maxima today and I do not like toyota's but it drove like a dream compared to my V6 08 Accord... a dream....

    When did Toyota start making Maximas? :confuse: Which is it? A Toyota, or a Maxima? Can't be both.
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