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Toyota Camry Check Engine Light - Catalytic Converter
Hi Folks, Can anyone help me? I have a 2001 Toyota Camry LE, 4 Cyl with 125K miles and I'm going on my fifth (that's right 5) catalytic converter. I bought the car used from a dealer and a short time later the Check Engine Light came on (42K mi.). The dealer said it was the catalytic converter and replaced it under warranty. About 1 year later, same thing (different dealer)(62K mi.). About 2 years later same thing only this time not covered under warranty and many other parts including sensors were noted. I took it to my mechanic who told me 2 Oxygen Sensors and 2 Cat Converters were bad. The sensors were probably bad all along and they would make the cat converters go bad over time. I spent the $2K+ and thought it would be fine. 6 Months later, same thing. My mechanic replaced the converter under warranty. 6 Months later same thing light came on. My mechanic says it's the cat converter again. Only now he not so sure given the number of times I've been through this. Here is my question: Could this be the oil gel problem? Note: Oil is changed regularly. No blue smoke or oil consumption evidence. My mechanic ruled this out based on his knowledge of the vehicle. If not oil gel, what else could it be? (My next step is calling the Car Guys.)
See Also: Video Explains Why Catalytic Converters Fail (4 min.)
See Also: Video Explains Why Catalytic Converters Fail (4 min.)
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Are you loosing coolant (like caused from a blown headgasket)? or perhaps is something off in the timing?
What is the downside of doing nothing? I would like to drive this car as long as possible but spending $1350.00 when the car is running like a charm seems crazy.
Many if not most states, will not pass your vehicle for state inspection if the check engine light is on. Perhaps where you live it is different, but you should be aware of that protential exposure.
Secondly, you may have caused more damage already, due to not taking action at the first sign of a problem. For instance, you could have had one faulty sensor originally, and because you drove it for another 5 months you actually then damaged the catalytic converter beyond repair. The sensors tell the engine computer how well and complete it is burning the mixture, and it lets the computer adjust the mixture and timings correctly. If your engine is now running lean, you could end up burning the valves in the engine and then you are in for some big buxx. Running to rich, ruin the converter. Hard to know how many miles you put on in 5 months, and how much fuel was put thru the engine.
If it was me, I'd clear the error codes and then after the error code sets again take it to an autoparts chain where they will read the codes for you. I personally have a reader as they are now relatively cheap, but many of the chains (pep boys, autozone, etc) will read it for you for free. That code (search on the internet if you don't have the service manuals) will suggest the first failing component, which very well might be the first in line Oxygen sensor.
I don't know the cost of a sensor for your car, but they typically run around 50-100 bucks, plus installation which is usually pretty easy. I would not delay getting this problem identified and resolved, and you may find it doesn't need all of the parts suggested.
The prices sound about right for a dealer. From my experience go with the dealer installed opart and get the longest possible warranty. My mechanic did some research about using after market parts for the catalytic converters and they typically don't last as long. In my case, as Kiawa pointed out, the mixture seems to be "destroying" the after market cat converters.
Make sure you have a dealer you can trust and if they suggest replacing the O2 sensors then you should as they will cause the cat converters to fail if they are not fuunctioning properly. (The sensors are used by the computer to adjust the fuel mixture.) If you're not sure the dealer is being straight, take it to your local mechanic for 2nd opinion. If he is reputable he will charge you a nominal fee to diagnose, $50 or so, and it may be worth it for the piece of mind.
Best of luck.
PS - Thanks for the input Kiawa. The mechanic did check the things you suggested and was not able to find a problem. The cat converter will be replaced under warranty (again) and I will see what happens in 6 months. After that I will get the dealer replacement. Even at $2K for a fully warranteed repair it is still cheaper than buying a new car.
I replaced my cat converter at 107,000 miles Oct. 2006 on my 2003 Camry. That was after a year of an off and on check engine light. It cost me right around $250.00 which was mostly labor charges at the dealership. I've since found an excellent Toyo mechanic that happens to be a Master Toyota mechanic that does all my work for a third of the cost.
I have a 2001 corolla w. over 112k miles. I was just told by my dealer ( in NJ) that I need replace my cat converter for my car w. $23K after they diagnosed my check engine light. Why the cost you paid and the one I was told is 10 times different?
I went to autopartswarehouse.com searching the cat converter for my car. The highest parts price is about $400, and the lowest is around $70. I know those are after market parts, but who can tell me the difference? ( I searched the online, there is no official toyota parts price online.)
I paid 100 bucks to my dealer for my check engine light diagnosis, do I need pay another 50 bucks to another mechanic for a 2nd opinion?
On April 2007, that dealer just changed the 222204-15010 meter sub-assy, INTA for my car since the check engine' light was on. Is the present problem can be related to the previous one?
What should I do next? The light has been on since July 10, 2008, should I still drive to the place 100 miles away from my house?
The exhaust is already gone and in the converter and doesn't effect engine unless there is a back pressure issue. This could cause loss of power and backfiring and eventual shut-off.
Instead get the code for the Catalytic Conv. problem. The code can be read with a tool at Autozone. They will check it for you for free. Theres so many codes for the electronic ignition and emission system. This will narrow it down to a specific symptom.
The converter could effect the pollution if raw gas gets in it. A bad ignition coil causes raw fuel to go out the exhaust ruining it over time. This would may cause a higher reading of Nitrous gases or the Hydrocarbons it is suppose to burn in the converter.
The post before mentions poor acceleration. This could be a bad ignition part like the wire or coils if it has separate coils for each cylinder. If not it might just be a spark plug wire going bad.
Had to replace the catalytic converter when the check engine light came on for the first time back in 11/04 when the vehicle had 139k miles. Toyota was kind enough to do a "good will" no charge warranty replacement.
Once again within the past 6 mos or so, the check engine light came back on again and catalytic converter needed replacement again. Total cost to repair at Dealer this time around was $617 which included $377 for the part, $53 for gaskets and $187 for labor.
According to my dealer, I should expect this to occur every 100k miles give or take. He further explained that today's fuel mixtures are harder on the cat converters, thus causing them to fail earlier/more frequently. Don't know if this is true or not, but this is what my dealer told me so take it FWIW.
Other then the issues with the cat converter, I can't complain much about the reliability of my Camry as I've pretty much had 254k trouble free miles and going strong.
Thanks!
The funny thing is the sensors were boxed as aftermarket Bosch, but actually the upstream was stamped "Toyota" and the downstream was stamped "Denso" which I believe both are OEM Toyota.
I went ahead and installed both sensors and the check engine light disappeared for about a day. The next day about halfway home from work (80 miles one way) the check engine light came on again, this time giving the code of P0420 which indicates the converter has failed.
I took the car to the dealer and asked them to check the new sensors to ensure that I had not recieved a bad sensor. The dealer did not bother to test them, and just assumed that they were good. He quoted $795.00 to replace the converter which he did not have in stock. I asked him how did he know that the converter was bad, and did he test the emissions from the tailpipe? He advised that he did not have the equipment to test the emissions and also admited that if the downstream sensor was bad it would indicate P0420.
My advice is to get the emissions from the tailpipe checked before you shell out for a converter, I know I am.
Thanks
My question is this; is this the cat that I should have worried about in the first place and the second one is just redundant since it's a California model? I live in colorado and I don't even have an emissions test to worry about, what I am concerned about is performance and possible ramifications down the road if I don't pony up to fix this in the next couple weeks? Will this cat going bad affect power because I have noticed as well these past couple of weeks that it is more sluggish tackling hills and I get a whiff of exhaust through the vents when it kicks up a gear.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, I noticed one post asking how difficult this is to replace, if necessary, and I ask the same question since two sets of mechanics out here have missed the fact that this thing was even installed in the first place? Why throw good money after bad people?
thank you for your help, I greatly appreciate it after all I have been through with this car I really would like to do it the honor of driving it until it drops
miles. The exhaust pipe in front of the catalytic converter broke off, requiring the
replacement of the rear catalytic converter. My mechanic did the replacement with
what I would think is an aftermarket replacement, since the total bill was about $600.
( I am only learning now of the the problems with non-Toyota replacement converters.)
The converter was replaced 6-8 weeks ago. A few weeks ago, the engine light came on. My mechanic said that the code came up that now the front converter needs to
be replaced. Based on what I've been reading, this may not be a final fix since the
back converter is aftermarket. I have asked the service people at my Toyota dealer
if they can determine if the replacement rear converter will work adequately if I go
ahead and replace the front converter with a Toyota converter. They told me that there really is no way to determine that. I am looking at at least $660. for the dealer
to replace the front converter. If the rear converter does not work adequately, then I am looking at an additional $1,325 to replace the rear converter with a Toyota
converter. If both air sensors are bad, there is the chance that the repair bill could
be even $400 higher. I'm trying to determine if it is time to cut my losses. The worst case scenario is that these repairs could add up to about $2,400. Potentially
another $2,400 into an 8 year old car??? The choices seem to be prepare for the
possibility of $2,400 in repairs, or take my chances and just drive it the way it is.
Any experience with how long I might be able to continue driving it if I do nothing?
Or risk the $660. to replace the front converter? Thank you for your thoughts.
First, air sensors should be easy to change, and about $25.00 dollars each. You're check light is coming on? I would not get to concerned about the light. It could be improper installation on the rear converter.
Not much could go wrong here though. I would get an Emissions test to check for exhaust pollution levels. I think converters reduce NOX's gases.Then go from there.This is only the exhaust and dosn't effect the engine at all only the atmosphere.
My question is: Is there something either the smog check or tune up technician could have done, or forgot to do, to make the check engine light come on?
Is there some sort of code that was supposed to be reset and possibly forgotten?
It is difficult to believe that there some failure so soon after a passed smog check.
Thanks
I bought a used 2001 Camry CE in year 2005. I had no idea about the separate emission warranty until now. I failed my state inspection in MA last year (Setp. 2008, around 70K miles) for the bad catalytic converter. However, i never got the check engineer on. I went to Toyota dealer and replaced the catalytic converter, which costed me $1300. I remembered that i asked the service manager if this is under warranty, and he said no.
Now (7 months later), I realized there is a emission warranty, which is for 8 yrs / 80K miles. Could anyone confirm this for me since i don't have the owner's warranty booklet? I just checked my repair receipt last night, and it stated as Exhaust System (Front). It didn't say Catalytic Converter. Is the Exhaust System (Front) same as Catalytic Converter.
Tomorrow, I am going to the dealer and ask for the money back. Is there any chance I can get my money back since the catalytic converter is under warranty?
Thanks and any inputs are appreciated.
The new models have gone up. Does anyone go to junk yards? You can find cheaper prices and sometimes you get lucky and find a new part. A sensor should be easy to remove, (search blog 1990 Q-45, a trip to the junkyard). Although converters are sold for scrap and missing most of the time.
A lot more profit/markup for factory converters so of course aftermarket, possibly from the exact same supplier but absent the factory logo/#, converters are a lot less expensive, inordinately so.
Supply & demand.
Yes, absolutely.
Not even the after market service shops will install a non-OEM labelled converter, so the vendors are disposing of the stock on hand at firesale prices.
Is it because those non-OEM labelled converters are less efficient, less reliable, or is it because there is a LOT more profit to pocket if you begin with the pricing level of an OEM labelled converer...??
Who, in their right mind, would buy a USED converter, aftermarket or otherwise...??
Maybe if I removed it myself from the low mileage donor car at the wrecking yard, otherwise I would be highly suspicious of the "source".
The dealer said he give me a copy of the service bulletin. I can provide additional detail if anyone is interested later.
It would be VERY helpful to obtain a copy of the service bulletin concerning the Catalytic converter replacements. I phoned a local Toyota dealership (service dept) today and they could not find anything about this (perhaps it is new?). Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!