the dealership washed my black slk(which was swirless) and gave me a free swirl job-wasnt that nice of them.(i am the guy they stare at bec my slk is always so clean and i make them put a big sign in the window reading "no wash." it took some time to get all the swirls out that they had originally gave me-free of charge, of course and i dont want to have to go thru the same process again. i was wondering, since it has been out long enough, if people have found the new Z5 to be any better than the old Z5-i wasnt too impressed with the old stuff(Z5 that is--->the Z2, now thats a different story)
I have used Zaino products for the past 4 years, but I have not been as meticulous as many of you. However, since I have had 4 years experience, I thought I would share this experience with you.
I followed the normal procedures with my vehicles (Dawn, Z-1, Z-2). I have used Z-6 occasionally. I have never stripped the Z-2 with Dawn and restarted with Z-1; I have simply added coats of Z-2. I wash my cars with Z-7 every week.
After 3 years of Zaino (maybe 12 coats), I turned my inferno red 300M in at lease-end. The car clearly out-shone every new vehicle at the dealer's lot. The lease manager literally did a double take when I showed him the car and he immediately stated that they were not going to turn the car in to Chrysler Financial. He asked how I got such a shine and we then had a Zaino discussion. He had never heard of Zaino.
I currently have a 2003 silver 300M and as you might expect the shine is more subtle than with the inferno red, but is still very noticeable. It has 3 coats of Z-2 -- 2 with ZFX rather than Z-1. My wife's 2001 cinnamon glaze 300M has about 9 coats of Z2(2 with ZFX) -- again, I have never "started over" by removing coats with Dawn. Both cars get compliments on the high level of shine.
Also, I have never used claybar. My Zaino usage is maybe a little unconventional (and less fanatical?), but has produced fantastic shines on our cars. I am extremely satisfied with Zaino!
Congrats on your Zaino success. I've had similar experiences, but all 3 of the cars I've used Z on have been light colored.
Two questions -- Did you reapply Z-1 or ZFX to your inferno red 300M during that 3-year period, or just apply Z-2. I'm curious, because Sal Zaino recommends Z-1 or ZFX every 6 months for all but show cars. Supposedly the Z-1 or ZFX "locks" on the Z-2 or Z-5.
Also, are you aware that Dawn probably won't remove previous coats of Z? My understanding is that Dawn is required only before the first use of Z -- to remove old waxes/polishes.
I never applied ZFX to the inferno red 300M. In fact I didn't buy any until after I purchased my silver M. But the shine on that car was unbelievable -- of course, being red helped.
I know Sal recommends the 6 month Z-1 treatment, but I never did -- just kept applying Z-2. I believe the re-applied Z-1 is supposed to help the Z-2 bond to the car. But I always felt the Z-2 worked just fine without the Z-1 -- maybe because I always kept the car clean. However, now that I have ZFX, I plan to use that with my Z-2 at least once a year. By that time, I should have about 7-8 coats of Z-2 on my car and 12-13 on my wife's!
Has everyone else been out putting Z on their car before winter (or avoiding the hurricane)?
I just finished putting the 4th coat of the new & improved Z-5 on my '98 Aurora (which I just had professionally buffed out last weekend). There still were some swirls and deep scratches after the buffing, and, after using the New and Improved (tm) Z5, you can barely see them. I was never too impressed with the old Z5, but the new stuff is great. I guess I'll use my full bottle of the old stuff on my relatives' vehicles.
Based upon graphicguy's recommendation, I ordered a couple of the Viper microfiber applicators from properautocare.com, along with a couple of large mf towels, a couple of small mf towels, and their wash mitt. I do like the applicators much better than the Zaino ones, and the wash mitt is fantastic. The towels are pretty good, too - only I used one of the small ones to remove the Z-5, and, after 2 cycles in the washer, the Zaino residue's not coming out :-(
I'm planning to put 6 coats of Z-5 on my 'rora, then put 6 coats of Z-2 on it. The car is 6 years old and does have its share of little paint chips/door dings/scratches, but the reflection (the car is black) is outstanding. When I'm done, in another week or so, weather permitting, I'll post some pictures.
I'm going outside shortly to try to put the Zaino glass cleaner to good use. I work for a printing company (in an industrial park), and our next-door neighbor is a company that manufactures and paints snowplow blades. When I washed up my car before I took it to get buffed out, I noted lots of little red, orange, and yellow specks in the paint - you got it - paint overspray. The person who worked on my car spent hours trying to get most of them out (and he did, except for areas too close to buff, i.e. around the sunroof - his clay wouldn't take the overspray out), but the glass is hosed (I have to drive east into the sun in the a.m., and west into the sun in the p.m., so my windshield is full of little tiny stars). We'll see if the Z product can help take it off the glass (otherwise, I've been advised to use a razor blade or steel wool, yikes!).
Did y'all check out the pictures on the "testimonials" page on zainobros.com? Lots of neat pics there...
Does anyone know if bug and tar remover takes off Z2 or 5 (w/zfx)? I drove to Chicago last week from St Louis for business and made quite an insect collection on the front bumper! Took me an hour to get the little guys off before a full wash / Z6.
Does anyone have any advice on how to remove the streaks after cleaning your windows? Z12 does a great job of cleaning but in direct sunlight (particulary near dawn and dusk) you can see suvbstantial streaking on the windows.
I have tried damp cloths followed by dry cloths with limited success.
I had streaks too after using the glass polish. (That's z12?) Anyway, what I've done is use the z12 but then afterwards, I use the Windex premoistened cloths. They come in a flat package which I leave in my glove compartment. I can't always see the streaks so when I do, I pull out a wipe and clean the window. Then I can also clean the console area, etc. while I'm sitting at a light. A good way to keep the car clean!
try a mixture of 1/3 vinegar and 2/3rds water. Wipe on with clean towel...wipe off with another dry clean towel. That should get rid of the window streaks (at least temporarily...vinyl gives off fumes that cause the streaking).
for the window streaking fixes. I'll try the vinegar first, since I have some available.
How does the vinyl cause streaking? Are the fumes mixing with something on the glass to cause this? My streaks are only in isolated parts of the glass, so I guess I was wondering why not over all the glass if its from vinyl fumes...
Hi all. I've been reading ALL the posts in this and the other wax forum and know one has touched on this topic. I'm looking for a way to get my new Forester through the winters here in the Great White North. Winter here lasts a good four months. (Spring and Fall aren't that warn either) They salt and sand the roads. It can be -22F to -40F for weeks at a time and if you do wash your car there's a good chance you won't be able to get back into it because it will freeze like a big ice cube. I'm planning to have the Forester oil sprayed sometime soon to keep it from rusting. It's a messy business, the over spray will attract a lot of dirt and is a bear to remove. It also gets in every crevice of the car. I have two questions .
1. What's a good strategy to clean the car after the oil spray? It seems that your car is never the same after. You can clean the exterior but dirt always collects in the door jams, under the hood etc. its a thick gooey mess and sticks to any cloth or mitt you use to wash with. Is there a foaming grease remover I could use? HELP.
2. From what I've read it looks like Z products are one of the most durable on the market. I'm hoping it will protect my new friend through the heck I'm going to put it. Would it be better to apply Z before oil spray or after?. I'm assuming before.
Any other tips or hints on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
I know that "waxol" was once a popular kind of aftermarket "rust proofing" in the UK. It generally was applied in such a way that it mostly did not get on the visible surfaces.
If the stuff does get on the door sills and other "semi-visible" areas I would FIRST ask the applying shop to clean it off. If they don't do a good enough job I would think that that you could safely remove the stuff with something like Goop or LanLin -- superfatty handcleaners. These will remove oily/tarry substances.
I would DEFINATELY plan on laying down a good protective layer of Z (or even regular wax) BEFORE visting the undercoater AND then do a FULL DETAIL with more Z afterwards. The last thing you want is for the undercoating to be on an exposed surface and have moisture/salt-packed sand stick in it -- that would ACCELERATE the rusting! (I think that is also why 'factory undercoating' is more of an air-cured rubberized type compound -- it dries smooth/hard and will not collect road crud -- I think that even Zeibart uses that sort of material, I would think it is superior for obvious reasons...)
I used to live in Canada (Ontario and Manitoba) so I know what cold is! I recall cars generally had a 5 year life in Ontario because of all the salt rusting the cars out.
There use to be a rustproofing franchise called Ziebart. I know it was more expensive than oiling, but a lot cleaner and you only did it once. As I recall, oiling had to be done once every 2 years. I guess if I was going to protect the underside of my car, I'd "Ziebart" it!
Some posters in Edmunds claim that Zaino polish does very little for keeping dirt, salt, etc. off the car, although it is acknowledged to give the best shine. California cars benefit most from Zaino -- maybe you might want to use a "slipperier" product against the elements?
My sister had her '90 Mustang GT rustproofed by Zeibart. When she sold it 10 years later there was no rust to be found but I know she had to go for yearly check / touch ups to ensure the warranty. I read in one off-road magazine a couple years ago that they were going to try spraying the whole underside with Line-X (spray in bed liner for pickups). I don't remember results but I like the idea, basically a solid hard epoxy coating that seals all and nothing sticks to it.
Ok it was a perfect day to get some Z on my dark teal 93 Corolla. Started early while cool and had shade. Dawn, clay, dawn, 3M Finesse it, 3M SMR, 3M IHG(car always looked good but 24/7 outside, acid rain has left some etching) Z-5, Z-6, Z-5, Z-6. Car looks great! Nice shine / reflection. Elbow feels like it's gonna fall off.
I still must be doing something wrong with the Z-6. The car feels more slick with just the Z-5. I used it (Z-6) sparingly 1 1/2 to 2 sprays for the hood and also same for roof, 3/4 to 1 spray per panel for the rest. I used the recommended large white towels and even followed with a Viper microfiber detailing cloth after. I just am not feeling the "slickness" everybody raves about. I had waxed my outlaws RX300 a couple days ago with original Turtlewax hardshell green bottle liquid. It still feels slicker than my complete Zaino job. I know the Zaino is the way to go for shine and protection (won't waste it on the outlaws(only difference between in-laws and outlaws.....outlaws are wanted!)) Why am I not getting that slick feeling????? Shine / depth / easy to apply / swirls and etch disappearing, got it! Still looking for that, drop a rag on the hood and watch it slide off kinda slick!!!
I can't imagine what you might have done "wrong" with the Z6, unless you applied it over Z5 that was not quite dry.
If you did not use ZFX, it might have impacted things. Recall that without ZFX, you can only do one coat of Z5 every 24 hours. Also, it is probably best to have at least one coat per year done with either Z1 of ZFX.
I presume you wiped of the Z6 before it dried.
I would email Zaino and for their help, if I were you.
ZFX both coats (used a little more than 1 ounce total) Much better than on the Sequoia on a hot day.
Bret - I thought everybody here posted to use Z-6 after every coat and after every wash. As I understood it, Z-6 is the icing on the cake. Should I NOT use it after the final coat, only between coats? Would I "ruin" the Z depth if I used P21S or other quality wax over it? Would I get that "slicker" feel by doing this? Would I need to dawn wash before the next Z again to ensure a good bond. I really like all I've read about the length of Z protection between Edmunds posts, Guru Reports, Zaino testimonials etc. With snow showers forecasted on the Weather Channel for Colorado and Michigan Peninsula, I know I'll be lucky to get out to do both cars again before the real winter. It will definitely be another coat or 2 of Z-2 or 5. I know when it does snow in NY, I want the ice and snow to slide off easier.
Right now, I am waiting for a coat of the new Z5 to dry on my car. The last time I applied Z5/2 was in May, so I am a little rusty! Got the applicator too wet, but Z is very forgiving. The water just evaporated, leaving the Z haze. In a while, I'll let everyone know if I see an improvement in new Z5. My car is a color where I can't see swirls, so I am neutral on the topic of how well Z5 covers swirls. I do like it as "undercoat" to Z2. The new Z5 does not seem as thick.
As far as Z6 being the icing, I am not recalling how slick it is after the Z5/Z2, but on my car, the color just looks so much better when applying Z6. In that sense, Z6 is the icing, but not necessarily because the surface is slicker.
I washed my car yesterday, and applied Z6 today just prior to my application of Z5. Z6 definitely made the surface slicker. (Sadly, I am generally too lazy to apply Z6 after every wash, but I should because the car looks so much better with Z6 after every wash).
I will let the current coat of Z5 dry, and then apply Z6, paying attention to Z6 impact on both appearance and slickness.
Just finished applying two coats of Z5 with Z6 before, after and between the two coats.
Z6 does not increase the slickness, but doesn't seem less slick either. I do think it improves the appearance of the car, however. Also, Sal probably recommends Z6 between coats as an opportunity wipe off residual Z, which may have been missed.
The new Z5 is thinner in consistency, easier to apply, and dries faster than its predecessor. It seems also to be shinier, but not a shiny as Z2.
I wrote to Sal asking about why the Z2 I purchased last spring is of a different color than the that I recently purchased, and Sal confirmed that the Z2 formula is also new. Here is his response verbatim:
"All the Z-2 is new higher gloss, slicker, more durable version.... Killer product.... I'm always improving on my stuff... Z-5 also has the same improvements as Z-2 plus it will hide swirls better.."
How do you tell whether you have older or newer products? Both the older Z2 and Z5 have an orangy tint, you might call the color peach.
My new Z5 has a very light yellow tint, and the new Z2 is pink.
can you tell if it hides swirls better than the old stuff. i ended up giving up on the old z5 and went extra steps with "other" products with a little abrasive in it to get a perfectly smooth finish(well as good as i could by hand), but it makes you realize how easy zaino is to apply and id love to use the z5 if it has made some improvements. i just finished a day of getting at it: wash,clay, meguirs scratch x dawn wash 3 coats of z2/z6--->looks brand new minus road scars. any comments appreciated. just ran out of my old z2 and looking forward to the new stuff, although i dont know how near perfection could be improved upon.
But with the color of my car, I have to park under halogen lights to see swirls. I guess that is some compensation for not being able to see the haze etc.
Anyway, Sal advertises that the new Z5 is better at removing swirls but you might want to ask bretfraz directly if he notices the difference.
Not a huge difference but it's there, especially after a few coats. I did an "old Z5 vs. new Z5" comparo a couple months ago and the new stuff is glossier and fills light swirls better.
Personally, if I have anything more than spider-webbing, I bust out the PC and remove the swirls instead of depending on multiple coats of Z. Currently I'm using Einszett Lack Politur (Green can) and I'm loving it so much I can hardly contain myself. The BEST polish I've ever used.
Bret - I thought everybody here posted to use Z-6 after every coat and after every wash. As I understood it, Z-6 is the icing on the cake. Should I NOT use it after the final coat, only between coats? I think this is totally up to you. I don't use Z6 between coats or after the final step unless I feel I need to. If the car is dusty or I need to remove a little product hazing, I'll Z6. That's about it for me.
Would I "ruin" the Z depth if I used P21S or other quality wax over it? Before today I'd have said, "don't apply a carnauba over Zaino" but after the M5 I detailed today, I'm liking the look. I still feel Zaino is a little glossier and slicker that a carnauba topper but it's hard to deny the look of wax, especially on a dark colored car. It's worth an experiment if nothing else.
Would I get that "slicker" feel by doing this? I don't know. I can say I couldn't tell a tangible diff between the Z5 and the Pinnacle Souveran over Z5 I used today.
Would I need to dawn wash before the next Z again to ensure a good bond? Yes, if you want to apply more Z you'll need to remove the carnauba.
I really like all I've read about the length of Z protection between Edmunds posts, Guru Reports, Zaino testimonials etc. With snow showers forecasted on the Weather Channel for Colorado and Michigan Peninsula, I know I'll be lucky to get out to do both cars again before the real winter. It will definitely be another coat or 2 of Z-2 or 5. I know when it does snow in NY, I want the ice and snow to slide off easier.
I haven't been around for awhile. Its a long story. I had a serious pancreatic attack and am now waiting to have my gallbladder removed. Bummer. Anyway, I did manage to get some more Z2 on the car to prep it for winter. The new Z2 is an improvement. I even put some on my windshield (and the other windows too).
I am in the midst of winterizing my car. I put two coats of the new Z5 last weekend, and plan to do at least two more of Z5 this weekend. I normally put 4 coats of Z5 and four coats of Z2 on once every 6 months. Maybe I'll be able to get some of the Z2 on this weekend.
Anyway, it HAS been quiet lately. I started having withdrawals when bretfraz was not on EITHER board for what seemed forever but only turned out to be a couple of weeks. I feel much more secure now that bretfraz and the members of the "just one more coat club" are posting again after a reprieve.
On the other hand, what is there to say that hasn't already been said about Z?
I think the next step is for you photo experts to coach tmart on how to get his car photos posted. I want to see tmart's Z'd car! Maybe if tmart gets his photo out there, I'll be motivated to do the same. (Lord help me.)
I've been wanting to do a full winterize job (2x Z5+Z2) and every weekend is full of driving here and there. Worst of all, the past few weekends here in the NE have been absolutely gorgeous.
tmart - the problem may be with the place that you are storing the photo. Some do NOT like you linking them to other sites - it eats too much of their bandwidth. Check for other sites where they allow linking.
pblevine- trust that you will be fine. We will all send good vibes your way.
Anyone heard from fastdriver? I have tried to contact him for a while. He should be on coat 42 by now.
I'm in Hong Kong at the moment, sharing your winterizing stories vicariously while it is 88F (feels like 95, they say) and 89% humidity. My baby is under cover at home.
I expect to get a new car in December when my lease runs out, and will try to get it with the shrink wrap on again so I will have complete control like I did with our TSX. New or not, I think that I will glaze or polish it anyway, just to make it that much smoother before the Z. Best to all.
Sometimes it seems that using an abrasive polish is presented here as an alternative to Z5, but in truth does not Z5 serve a different purpose?
Specifically, isn't Z5 intended to enable one to put off using abrasive polishes?
I can understand using abrasive polishes regularly if one is leasing for 3 years or something, but don't abrasive polishes decrease the longevity of the paint if not used judiciously and by a professional?
I had an older BMW once, and when it was about 5 years old, I had it detailed. It looked great, but in ignorance I had it detailed again one year later. The third time I had it detailed, it destroyed the paint. I was ignorant at the time that a thin layer of paint was actually being scraped from the car.
I intend to keep my current vehicle for ten years, and I am determined to avoid using abrasives unless I absolutely must.
Can a professional like yourself tell the degree to which abrasives have been used on a specific paint job?
I am thinking of those who want to purchase a used car. How can they tell whether the paint on the car is just shy of that point where the paint is destroyed from one more polishing job?
atoews - Well, there is polish and there is polish. Some are much more aggressive than others. I plan to use a "glaze" - a very fine polish that will remove as little paint as possible, just shining the already smooth paint. Your paint coat and clear coats are only about as thick as a piece of paper - it doesn't take much manhandling with a power buffer to wipe it off!
Z5 tries to eliminate the need for polishing by optically "filling" minor swirls and spider webbing. Of course it can only do just so much.
The best defense is several layers of Z2, and then Z5 if necessary, and polish only every couple of years. Z is really HARD, and does protect your car. Just let you applicator dry out to see how hard it gets.
BY the way - there are some magnetic measuring gadgets that can actually measure the thickness of paint coatings - maybe a body shop near you has one and check for you if you are suspicious?
You've asked some good questions, ones where I'm not sure there's a definitive answer but I'm happy to offer my thoughts.
When it comes to "polishes" - defined as products developed to remove paint defects, improve shine and gloss, and prep the paint for final protection by wax or sealant - one has to determine what problems need to be fixed (if any) and what products are needed to fix them and get the paint to a stage where its ready for the final product. It's been my experience that very few cars do not need some amount of polishing. Maybe only new cars don't, but then I've seen plenty of brand new cars on dealer's lots that need some serious work to fix problems like acid rain damage. So, as a car owner, you've got to ask yourself, "what paint prep does my car need to fix the problems and look its best?"
Now, if your goal is to maintain as much paint as possible, you'll probably have to compromise on how much, if any, polishing you'll want to do. If you are willing to live with certain defects and warts in the name of paint preservation, that's great. You have your priorities and you're going with them. No problem.
I believe that most people detail their cars (or have them detailed) because they want them to look as good as possible. That almost always means some polishing has to be done. And, yes, some amount of clearcoat will be removed in the process. That's the trade off. A top notch detailer should know exactly what product to use in any given circumstance to improve the appearance of the paint without damaging it permanently. This is where having a rapport with a local product dealer/distributor of a respected mfr is critical. The product mfr knows exactly how their product is supposed to work and what tools & techniques to use to get the best results. Consulting them in tricky situations can help eliminate the chance of misusing a polish or compound.
On the subject of Z5, Sal knows its not going to take the place of a compound or swirl mark remover. Z5 is not going to fix a lot of paint problems. If you call Sal and tell him what's wrong with your paint and what you are trying to accomplish, he might suggest that it need some polishing prior to Z5 or Z2. If you are starting with a new car and it has no major paint defects like acid rain damage or rotary-installed swirl marks, then Z5 would be a fine product to start with and continue with unless something stronger is needed in the future. Can it take the place of a polish? In some circumstances, yes. But sometimes the only way to fix a paint problem is to abrade the paint surface. It all depends on paint condition and desired results.
Can I tell which abrasives have been used on a paint job? No. There's lots of ways to butcher a paint job ;-) Its easy to tell if an aggressive product/tool/technique was used. It takes some experience to know what product/tool/technique it will take to fix them.
As mentioned, there are measuring devices that can tell you how thick paint is on a given panel. Electronic paint thickness meters are the way to go. One type is called an Elkometer and the cost is $300+. A good body shop, used car dealer, or a high end detail shop should have one. I got a chance to play with one recently and its a nice toy and something I may need to buy if my detailing biz continues to expand. Right now I've got my hands on a new rotary polisher (Porter Cable 7428) so I need to blast off the rust and rehone my rotary skills. I got a vivid reminder recently of the amazing results one can get with a rotary but I need some serious practice to get there. As always, I use my own car as a guinea pig. I only hope I don't kill the paint - the poor thing is lease and its almost over.
The guideline is if you don't use ZFX, you need to use Z1 Polish Lok once every six months. According to Zaino, Z1 establishes a molecular bond between polish and paint. You don't need it for every coat of Z2/5.
ZFX replaces Z1. If you use ZFX at least once every 6 months, you don't need Z1 at all. If you opt for ZFX in place of Z1, the guideline is to use it once every 6 months at minimum. Also, Sal is now recommending that if you use ZFX in place of Z1, you should use it with at least one out of every 10 coats of Z2/5.
So, with fastdriver's alleged 42 coats, for example, he needs to have applied ZFX four times minimum. :-)
Been away for awhile enjoying the last vestiges of summer and the first beautiful Fall Days. Hello again to all. PB...hope you are feeling better. Automophile, hope you have a safe trip home...looks like bret is holding down the fort.
I've got about 7 coats of Z2 on the RX8 and am officially ready for winter. Last coat went on last weekend. It's almost to the point I have more coats of Zaino on the car than miles on the odometer.
Just also found out that snow tires are going to run me a couple thousand (all around with "winter" alloy rims). So, I decided that I'm going to leave my car in the garage whenever there's snow and ice on the ground.
Found a nice Honda Civic that has had the finish ignored but good shape mechanically. The plan is to make it my snow car. If the deal goes through, I'll be compounding, Dawning, claying and Z-ing next weekend (if the weather co-operates). I'm always of the mind that I'd rather have the swirls than to use a compound, but in this case, I'll make an exception since there are sone real old "bug goo" that's been there awhile. Only way they come off is compound.
Thanks, my Gallbladder surgury is now scheduled for Oct. 27th. The sooner the better as this diet sucks. Anyway, the doctors didn't say I couldn't Z my car, and I'll try again this weekend. A little question: I've been washing my towels with liquid Tide which does a good job. But lately these towels seem to be a bit discolored. Does that mean they are retaining dirt, etc? Or does it just mean its time for a new batch of 100% cotton, made in USA towels?
Comments
They are microfiber and are bigger, softer, easier to handle, and much sturdier than the ones that Sal ships with orders. They are called Viper.
They actually cut down on the time it takes me to apply Zaino since they are bigger.
They also wash up quite well and don't fall apart after a few washings.
I followed the normal procedures with my vehicles (Dawn, Z-1, Z-2). I have used Z-6 occasionally. I have never stripped the Z-2 with Dawn and restarted with Z-1; I have simply added coats of Z-2. I wash my cars with Z-7 every week.
After 3 years of Zaino (maybe 12 coats), I turned my inferno red 300M in at lease-end. The car clearly out-shone every new vehicle at the dealer's lot. The lease manager literally did a double take when I showed him the car and he immediately stated that they were not going to turn the car in to Chrysler Financial. He asked how I got such a shine and we then had a Zaino discussion. He had never heard of Zaino.
I currently have a 2003 silver 300M and as you might expect the shine is more subtle than with the inferno red, but is still very noticeable. It has 3 coats of Z-2 -- 2 with ZFX rather than Z-1. My wife's 2001 cinnamon glaze 300M has about 9 coats of Z2(2 with ZFX) -- again, I have never "started over" by removing coats with Dawn. Both cars get compliments on the high level of shine.
Also, I have never used claybar. My Zaino usage is maybe a little unconventional (and less fanatical?), but has produced fantastic shines on our cars. I am extremely satisfied with Zaino!
Two questions -- Did you reapply Z-1 or ZFX to your inferno red 300M during that 3-year period, or just apply Z-2. I'm curious, because Sal Zaino recommends Z-1 or ZFX every 6 months for all but show cars. Supposedly the Z-1 or ZFX "locks" on the Z-2 or Z-5.
Also, are you aware that Dawn probably won't remove previous coats of Z? My understanding is that Dawn is required only before the first use of Z -- to remove old waxes/polishes.
I know Sal recommends the 6 month Z-1 treatment, but I never did -- just kept applying Z-2. I believe the re-applied Z-1 is supposed to help the Z-2 bond to the car. But I always felt the Z-2 worked just fine without the Z-1 -- maybe because I always kept the car clean. However, now that I have ZFX, I plan to use that with my Z-2 at least once a year. By that time, I should have about 7-8 coats of Z-2 on my car and 12-13 on my wife's!
I just finished putting the 4th coat of the new & improved Z-5 on my '98 Aurora (which I just had professionally buffed out last weekend). There still were some swirls and deep scratches after the buffing, and, after using the New and Improved (tm) Z5, you can barely see them. I was never too impressed with the old Z5, but the new stuff is great. I guess I'll use my full bottle of the old stuff on my relatives' vehicles.
Based upon graphicguy's recommendation, I ordered a couple of the Viper microfiber applicators from properautocare.com, along with a couple of large mf towels, a couple of small mf towels, and their wash mitt. I do like the applicators much better than the Zaino ones, and the wash mitt is fantastic. The towels are pretty good, too - only I used one of the small ones to remove the Z-5, and, after 2 cycles in the washer, the Zaino residue's not coming out :-(
I'm planning to put 6 coats of Z-5 on my 'rora, then put 6 coats of Z-2 on it. The car is 6 years old and does have its share of little paint chips/door dings/scratches, but the reflection (the car is black) is outstanding. When I'm done, in another week or so, weather permitting, I'll post some pictures.
I'm going outside shortly to try to put the Zaino glass cleaner to good use. I work for a printing company (in an industrial park), and our next-door neighbor is a company that manufactures and paints snowplow blades. When I washed up my car before I took it to get buffed out, I noted lots of little red, orange, and yellow specks in the paint - you got it - paint overspray. The person who worked on my car spent hours trying to get most of them out (and he did, except for areas too close to buff, i.e. around the sunroof - his clay wouldn't take the overspray out), but the glass is hosed (I have to drive east into the sun in the a.m., and west into the sun in the p.m., so my windshield is full of little tiny stars). We'll see if the Z product can help take it off the glass (otherwise, I've been advised to use a razor blade or steel wool, yikes!).
Did y'all check out the pictures on the "testimonials" page on zainobros.com? Lots of neat pics there...
--Robert
Thanks,
Squirrel
I have tried damp cloths followed by dry cloths with limited success.
Any help would be appreciated!
How does the vinyl cause streaking? Are the fumes mixing with something on the glass to cause this? My streaks are only in isolated parts of the glass, so I guess I was wondering why not over all the glass if its from vinyl fumes...
1. What's a good strategy to clean the car after the oil spray? It seems that your car is never the same after. You can clean the exterior but dirt always collects in the door jams, under the hood etc. its a thick gooey mess and sticks to any cloth or mitt you use to wash with. Is there a foaming grease remover I could use? HELP.
2. From what I've read it looks like Z products are one of the most durable on the market.
I'm hoping it will protect my new friend through the heck I'm going to put it.
Would it be better to apply Z before oil spray or after?. I'm assuming before.
Any other tips or hints on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
Having a car you care about is a horrible thing.
If the stuff does get on the door sills and other "semi-visible" areas I would FIRST ask the applying shop to clean it off. If they don't do a good enough job I would think that that you could safely remove the stuff with something like Goop or LanLin -- superfatty handcleaners. These will remove oily/tarry substances.
I would DEFINATELY plan on laying down a good protective layer of Z (or even regular wax) BEFORE visting the undercoater AND then do a FULL DETAIL with more Z afterwards. The last thing you want is for the undercoating to be on an exposed surface and have moisture/salt-packed sand stick in it -- that would ACCELERATE the rusting! (I think that is also why 'factory undercoating' is more of an air-cured rubberized type compound -- it dries smooth/hard and will not collect road crud -- I think that even Zeibart uses that sort of material, I would think it is superior for obvious reasons...)
There use to be a rustproofing franchise called Ziebart. I know it was more expensive than oiling, but a lot cleaner and you only did it once. As I recall, oiling had to be done once every 2 years. I guess if I was going to protect the underside of my car, I'd "Ziebart" it!
Some posters in Edmunds claim that Zaino polish does very little for keeping dirt, salt, etc. off the car, although it is acknowledged to give the best shine. California cars benefit most from Zaino -- maybe you might want to use a "slipperier" product against the elements?
Sounds like heresy, but it's just a thought!
I still must be doing something wrong with the Z-6. The car feels more slick with just the Z-5. I used it (Z-6) sparingly 1 1/2 to 2 sprays for the hood and also same for roof, 3/4 to 1 spray per panel for the rest. I used the recommended large white towels and even followed with a Viper microfiber detailing cloth after. I just am not feeling the "slickness" everybody raves about. I had waxed my outlaws RX300 a couple days ago with original Turtlewax hardshell green bottle liquid. It still feels slicker than my complete Zaino job. I know the Zaino is the way to go for shine and protection (won't waste it on the outlaws(only difference between in-laws and outlaws.....outlaws are wanted!)) Why am I not getting that slick feeling????? Shine / depth / easy to apply / swirls and etch disappearing, got it! Still looking for that, drop a rag on the hood and watch it slide off kinda slick!!!
If you did not use ZFX, it might have impacted things. Recall that without ZFX, you can only do one coat of Z5 every 24 hours. Also, it is probably best to have at least one coat per year done with either Z1 of ZFX.
I presume you wiped of the Z6 before it dried.
I would email Zaino and for their help, if I were you.
Bret - I thought everybody here posted to use Z-6 after every coat and after every wash. As I understood it, Z-6 is the icing on the cake. Should I NOT use it after the final coat, only between coats? Would I "ruin" the Z depth if I used P21S or other quality wax over it? Would I get that "slicker" feel by doing this? Would I need to dawn wash before the next Z again to ensure a good bond. I really like all I've read about the length of Z protection between Edmunds posts, Guru Reports, Zaino testimonials etc. With snow showers forecasted on the Weather Channel for Colorado and Michigan Peninsula, I know I'll be lucky to get out to do both cars again before the real winter. It will definitely be another coat or 2 of Z-2 or 5. I know when it does snow in NY, I want the ice and snow to slide off easier.
As far as Z6 being the icing, I am not recalling how slick it is after the Z5/Z2, but on my car, the color just looks so much better when applying Z6. In that sense, Z6 is the icing, but not necessarily because the surface is slicker.
I washed my car yesterday, and applied Z6 today just prior to my application of Z5. Z6 definitely made the surface slicker. (Sadly, I am generally too lazy to apply Z6 after every wash, but I should because the car looks so much better with Z6 after every wash).
I will let the current coat of Z5 dry, and then apply Z6, paying attention to Z6 impact on both appearance and slickness.
Z6 does not increase the slickness, but doesn't seem less slick either. I do think it improves the appearance of the car, however. Also, Sal probably recommends Z6 between coats as an opportunity wipe off residual Z, which may have been missed.
The new Z5 is thinner in consistency, easier to apply, and dries faster than its predecessor. It seems also to be shinier, but not a shiny as Z2.
I wrote to Sal asking about why the Z2 I purchased last spring is of a different color than the that I recently purchased, and Sal confirmed that the Z2 formula is also new. Here is his response verbatim:
"All the Z-2 is new higher gloss, slicker, more durable version.... Killer
product.... I'm always improving on my stuff... Z-5 also has the same
improvements as Z-2 plus it will hide swirls better.."
How do you tell whether you have older or newer products? Both the older Z2 and Z5 have an orangy tint, you might call the color peach.
My new Z5 has a very light yellow tint, and the new Z2 is pink.
I can hardly wait to try my new Z2!!
i just finished a day of getting at it:
wash,clay,
meguirs scratch x
dawn wash
3 coats of z2/z6--->looks brand new minus road scars.
any comments appreciated. just ran out of my old z2 and looking forward to the new stuff, although i dont know how near perfection could be improved upon.
Anyway, Sal advertises that the new Z5 is better at removing swirls but you might want to ask bretfraz directly if he notices the difference.
Personally, if I have anything more than spider-webbing, I bust out the PC and remove the swirls instead of depending on multiple coats of Z. Currently I'm using Einszett Lack Politur (Green can) and I'm loving it so much I can hardly contain myself. The BEST polish I've ever used.
Bret - I thought everybody here posted to use Z-6 after every coat and after every wash. As I understood it, Z-6 is the icing on the cake. Should I NOT use it after the final coat, only between coats?
I think this is totally up to you. I don't use Z6 between coats or after the final step unless I feel I need to. If the car is dusty or I need to remove a little product hazing, I'll Z6. That's about it for me.
Would I "ruin" the Z depth if I used P21S or other quality wax over it?
Before today I'd have said, "don't apply a carnauba over Zaino" but after the M5 I detailed today, I'm liking the look. I still feel Zaino is a little glossier and slicker that a carnauba topper but it's hard to deny the look of wax, especially on a dark colored car. It's worth an experiment if nothing else.
Would I get that "slicker" feel by doing this?
I don't know. I can say I couldn't tell a tangible diff between the Z5 and the Pinnacle Souveran over Z5 I used today.
Would I need to dawn wash before the next Z again to ensure a good bond?
Yes, if you want to apply more Z you'll need to remove the carnauba.
I really like all I've read about the length of Z protection between Edmunds posts, Guru Reports, Zaino testimonials etc. With snow showers forecasted on the Weather Channel for Colorado and Michigan Peninsula, I know I'll be lucky to get out to do both cars again before the real winter. It will definitely be another coat or 2 of Z-2 or 5. I know when it does snow in NY, I want the ice and snow to slide off easier.
How is everyone?
Anyway, it HAS been quiet lately. I started having withdrawals when bretfraz was not on EITHER board for what seemed forever but only turned out to be a couple of weeks. I feel much more secure now that bretfraz and the members of the "just one more coat club" are posting again after a reprieve.
On the other hand, what is there to say that hasn't already been said about Z?
I think the next step is for you photo experts to coach tmart on how to get his car photos posted. I want to see tmart's Z'd car! Maybe if tmart gets his photo out there, I'll be motivated to do the same. (Lord help me.)
boo hoo
I have a Mac. Do the Windows folks have a problem seeing tmart's images?
What's really weird is I tried it again and got the red X box, and when I went into edit, the photo shows!
pblevine- trust that you will be fine. We will all send good vibes your way.
Anyone heard from fastdriver? I have tried to contact him for a while. He should be on coat 42 by now.
I'm in Hong Kong at the moment, sharing your winterizing stories vicariously while it is 88F (feels like 95, they say) and 89% humidity. My baby is under cover at home.
I expect to get a new car in December when my lease runs out, and will try to get it with the shrink wrap on again so I will have complete control like I did with our TSX. New or not, I think that I will glaze or polish it anyway, just to make it that much smoother before the Z. Best to all.
Specifically, isn't Z5 intended to enable one to put off using abrasive polishes?
I can understand using abrasive polishes regularly if one is leasing for 3 years or something, but don't abrasive polishes decrease the longevity of the paint if not used judiciously and by a professional?
I had an older BMW once, and when it was about 5 years old, I had it detailed. It looked great, but in ignorance I had it detailed again one year later. The third time I had it detailed, it destroyed the paint. I was ignorant at the time that a thin layer of paint was actually being scraped from the car.
I intend to keep my current vehicle for ten years, and I am determined to avoid using abrasives unless I absolutely must.
Am I wrong?
I am thinking of those who want to purchase a used car. How can they tell whether the paint on the car is just shy of that point where the paint is destroyed from one more polishing job?
Z5 tries to eliminate the need for polishing by optically "filling" minor swirls and spider webbing. Of course it can only do just so much.
The best defense is several layers of Z2, and then Z5 if necessary, and polish only every couple of years. Z is really HARD, and does protect your car. Just let you applicator dry out to see how hard it gets.
BY the way - there are some magnetic measuring gadgets that can actually measure the thickness of paint coatings - maybe a body shop near you has one and check for you if you are suspicious?
You've asked some good questions, ones where I'm not sure there's a definitive answer but I'm happy to offer my thoughts.
When it comes to "polishes" - defined as products developed to remove paint defects, improve shine and gloss, and prep the paint for final protection by wax or sealant - one has to determine what problems need to be fixed (if any) and what products are needed to fix them and get the paint to a stage where its ready for the final product. It's been my experience that very few cars do not need some amount of polishing. Maybe only new cars don't, but then I've seen plenty of brand new cars on dealer's lots that need some serious work to fix problems like acid rain damage. So, as a car owner, you've got to ask yourself, "what paint prep does my car need to fix the problems and look its best?"
Now, if your goal is to maintain as much paint as possible, you'll probably have to compromise on how much, if any, polishing you'll want to do. If you are willing to live with certain defects and warts in the name of paint preservation, that's great. You have your priorities and you're going with them. No problem.
I believe that most people detail their cars (or have them detailed) because they want them to look as good as possible. That almost always means some polishing has to be done. And, yes, some amount of clearcoat will be removed in the process. That's the trade off. A top notch detailer should know exactly what product to use in any given circumstance to improve the appearance of the paint without damaging it permanently. This is where having a rapport with a local product dealer/distributor of a respected mfr is critical. The product mfr knows exactly how their product is supposed to work and what tools & techniques to use to get the best results. Consulting them in tricky situations can help eliminate the chance of misusing a polish or compound.
On the subject of Z5, Sal knows its not going to take the place of a compound or swirl mark remover. Z5 is not going to fix a lot of paint problems. If you call Sal and tell him what's wrong with your paint and what you are trying to accomplish, he might suggest that it need some polishing prior to Z5 or Z2. If you are starting with a new car and it has no major paint defects like acid rain damage or rotary-installed swirl marks, then Z5 would be a fine product to start with and continue with unless something stronger is needed in the future. Can it take the place of a polish? In some circumstances, yes. But sometimes the only way to fix a paint problem is to abrade the paint surface. It all depends on paint condition and desired results.
Can I tell which abrasives have been used on a paint job? No. There's lots of ways to butcher a paint job ;-) Its easy to tell if an aggressive product/tool/technique was used. It takes some experience to know what product/tool/technique it will take to fix them.
As mentioned, there are measuring devices that can tell you how thick paint is on a given panel. Electronic paint thickness meters are the way to go. One type is called an Elkometer and the cost is $300+. A good body shop, used car dealer, or a high end detail shop should have one. I got a chance to play with one recently and its a nice toy and something I may need to buy if my detailing biz continues to expand. Right now I've got my hands on a new rotary polisher (Porter Cable 7428) so I need to blast off the rust and rehone my rotary skills. I got a vivid reminder recently of the amazing results one can get with a rotary but I need some serious practice to get there. As always, I use my own car as a guinea pig. I only hope I don't kill the paint - the poor thing is lease and its almost over.
I think there is some danger of novices like myself thinking that polish is a substitute for Z5 in a regular maintenance program.
I plan to avoid polishes unless absolutely necessary.
ZFX replaces Z1. If you use ZFX at least once every 6 months, you don't need Z1 at all. If you opt for ZFX in place of Z1, the guideline is to use it once every 6 months at minimum. Also, Sal is now recommending that if you use ZFX in place of Z1, you should use it with at least one out of every 10 coats of Z2/5.
So, with fastdriver's alleged 42 coats, for example, he needs to have applied ZFX four times minimum. :-)
I've got about 7 coats of Z2 on the RX8 and am officially ready for winter. Last coat went on last weekend. It's almost to the point I have more coats of Zaino on the car than miles on the odometer.
Just also found out that snow tires are going to run me a couple thousand (all around with "winter" alloy rims). So, I decided that I'm going to leave my car in the garage whenever there's snow and ice on the ground.
Found a nice Honda Civic that has had the finish ignored but good shape mechanically. The plan is to make it my snow car. If the deal goes through, I'll be compounding, Dawning, claying and Z-ing next weekend (if the weather co-operates). I'm always of the mind that I'd rather have the swirls than to use a compound, but in this case, I'll make an exception since there are sone real old "bug goo" that's been there awhile. Only way they come off is compound.