I've been reading both topics for a time now and I am amazed by a few things.
1. I have not tried Zaino yet, but I have the check written and the envelope stamped, I just forgot to mail it today.
2. I have a garage full of waxes and other products I've tried. My favorite so far, Mother's 3 step and an orbital buffer. Now for anybody who's tried to wax a full size truck with a hard tonneau knows, it's a lot of damn work. The mothers process is time intensive and very labor intensive. The results are quite nice though.
3. In reading SBW, I noticed a couple of comments about swirl marks and hazing. In reading the Zaino site, everybody seems to have glowing remarks. I don't remember seeing a post in either site where somebody had a bad experience with Zaino.
4. Now just assume that if a SBW user and a Zaino user were given a clean garage and as much time as needed to clean and polish similar cars and they both came out the same, If the Zaino were easier to apply and lasted longer, it'd be an obvious decision. It also seems as if alot of the SBW users complain about getting swirl marks. Maybe it's the wax, maybe it's the method.
Now, being as I am new to everybody here, I think the arguement as I've seen it so far comes down to this.... The Zaino vs SBW is almost like a Chevy vs Ford or an America vs foreign arguement. There is no clear winner as each consumer has different needs and different tastes. So your winner might be my hated loser etc.
I look forward to trying Zaino on my new vehicle and if I am unimpressed, I will switch back to my previous brands.
In the end, all we're talking about here is car wax guys, I mean come on!!!!!!!
There is a bunch of common items to Z and SBW's. I am sure that you have already ferreted out what they are.
The problem and opportunity with a Porter Cable is the relative skill of the operator. It goes without saying that neither Zaino or any SBW protects against improper operation of a "buffer."
To me the use of wax/polish etc etc. vs Zaino comes down to a few things based on a few assumptions. Bang for the buck and effort and ability to last for up to 6 mo. or longer.
While you are used to using Mothers and a buffer, I was used to doing the Meguairs gig, ending with one to multiple coats of #26 (paste) If you go to their web site and read between the lines, you have a recommendation to do the "full monty" every month; with a weekly washing. In my case Zaino has allowed me to cut down my "janatorial time" down significantly. (monthly washing and 6 mo Z-1, and Z-2) I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this but "wax on wax off" may be ZEN to some, but to me it makes me sweatty and is a ticket to intense boredom, not to mention mulitiple increase chances of scratches and swirls. Scratches and swirls are the main reason I do not take it to the best car washes in town. If you have one huge vehicle and have that observation, I have 5.
ispangler If you have a buffer, use it with a good polish and/or glaze to get rid of all your existing scratches and swirl marks, and then 'Z' your car. Claying is also advised, at least once. The ultra smooth finish after polishing and claying will make the application of Z go much faster and easier. I used Eagle One's "Wet Look" on my car as a glaze, and then clayed it for a super slick surface. A year later, it is still really smooth and slick. Z5 will take care of any small marks you may pick up. As long as you wash your car yourself instead of going to a dreaded car wash, you can stay swirl free, and have a glass-like finish.
Actually, the thing you describe is a "BASELINE." The term, while very specific, of course practically means different things to different people!!! The neat thing about a good baseline is that once you have high standards, it is far easier to keep it there using the Z products.
As you know, a buffer is not recommended with Zaino, once you have removed the swirl marks/defects.(establish your baseline).
If you have established your baseline with other than Z products, it is a good idea to do a wash with Dawn. (blue liguid dishwashing detergent) That washing will serve as a chemically neutral surface so the Z-1 doesn't have to work as hard.
automophile makes some very good points about those damn swirl marks. But to go directly to your question, I feel that most swirl marks and 'spider webs' are caused by the method rather than the product. I've had swirls with various waxes and Zaino too. The 'spider web' effect is actually a collection of very small swirls which are not easily visible 'til you look for them. Like swirls, they are caused by dirt being dragged or scraped across the finish (or wax or polymer).
When I was using the normal waxes, I had lots of swirls. And even with Zaino, I'd get those spider webs. In my case, I had used a less than clean towel to remove residue. The dirt in the towel must have contained some hard particals such as metal rust. Such dirt will scratch any paint, clear coat, wax, or polymer. The trick seems to be to keep the newly coated surface free of dust and to use really clean 100% cotton towels made in USA. When using Zaino, please wash and dry your car first taking care to dry it with a clean towel without using much pressure. Don't buff it dry. And then use Z6 prior to another layer of Z2. The Z6 will help remove residual dust and lay down a smooth surface. And then apply the Z2 with an applicator pre-moistened with Z6. Use very light overlapping strokes. When dry, again use very light strokes with a very clean towel to remove the residue.
But if you've managed to collect some swirls (spider webs, etc.), the best cure is Z5 which really will fill in those swirls while laying down a good layer of Z. It really worked for me.
Another reason why I use the Z product. The CLEANEST application and the LESS frequent application really helps to hold down the swirl/spider marks.
The real structure is that it is against the law (EPA) to apply paint that is more durable. The net effect is that we are stuck with less durable paint.
The reference paint in 1978 was a paint called Dupont Imron? (car paint, JET BLACK to boot) I had two 80 cu in aluminium dive tanks painted with this product and after 30 dives (salt, clear water and intense sun, in FL) not even so much as a swirl mark. (applying that today is probably a felony)
I'd like to ask where you came up with the procedure to use Z-6 AFTER a wash and before using Z-2. Maybe I'm missing something. If you've just washed the car, is there really any residual dust left for the Z-6 to remove? I think I understand your comment about laying down a smooth surface, but I have to say that the surface on my car is very slick, after multiple coats of Z-2 and another of Z-1/Z-2 after six months.
Normally, if I intend to use Z-2, I apply it after a wash. Then, occasionally but not always, I apply the Z-6. Ideally, I apply Z-6 several days after a wash and INSTEAD of a wash -- if the car is very clean and if I first remove any dust layer (NOT DIRT), using a California Duster or a clean towel (100% cotton, of course!). That way I retain the clean surface and prolong the "just waxed" look. My biggest problem is the frequent separate wheel wash to remove the build up of brake dust.
If I'm not mistaken, Sal recommends the Z-6 after the Z-2 or Z-5, but please set me straight if I'm wrong.
"Actually--the attitude wouldn't bother me as much if the Zaino products were superior to the best of what's out there--problem is--they're not."
What problems did Zaino give you that these other superior products did not?
Name some of these better products...I've tried just about everything I can find. So far Zaino has been the best. Easy on/off, superior protection, and excellent mirror like finish(unlike wax, which gives a greasy feel and does not last thru a rainstorm or high temperature).
I am always looking for a better product though. I won't continue to use a product if I(you) can show me something better. I am not compensated for using Zaino. It is not exactly cheap, but it is well worth the price. Name some better products to try. I will try anything within my budget up to $80 per can of wax.
Automophile wrote: Has anyone clayed again after the original treatment - say a year later?
I know several people who clay their vehicles every spring.
The only time I clay is if something won't wash off. First thing I try is full strength Z7 applied to the area with a cotton swab. I let it sit for a couple hours and often the stuff just washes off. If that does not work I will re-clay the affected areas.
I'm with automophile here, except that for old or damaged paint I use Meguiar's professional products "Swirl Remover" followed by "Show Car Polish" with an orbital buffer then after a wash, begin the "Z-process". Z5 might be the best I've used to try and hide the scratches, and it does wonders with the small stuff, but for an old car, glaze or polish it for best results.
Ooops...You're right. I meant Z6 AFTERWARDS. I have used Z6 after washing and before Z2, but it didn't do anything for my finish. And besides, I was talking about swirls and spider webs. When trying to remove swirl marks, I agree, apply Z5 directly after washing and careful drying. Then apply Z6. The Z5 should fill in those swirl scratches. I think Sal recommends alternate applications of Z5 and Z2 until all the swirl marks are gone.
Actually, I used a slightly different procedure last year. It was a bad winter for my car with all the road salts, etc. 'Had a whole collection of swirls and spider webs. So after a really complete washing (Z7), I clayed the car again and then washed it a second time. I then applied Z1 and then Z5. The results were dramatic. I then waited about 24 hours (the next day), and used Z6. And finally, I applied a coat of Z2. After drying and residue removal, I even used my Z6 again. It was worth it!
Again, there's no need for Z6 after washing and before using Z2. My mistake. What I'll do sometimes is wash and dry the car and then use Z6 when I'm not applying Z2. And about claying each spring: my car a lot of road / brake dust and road salts during the winter. Even after a good wash when the car looks absolutely clean, there will be some embedded tiny brake dust particals present. Although my car "looked" clean after washing last spring, my clay bar picked up a lot of dust. Talk about junk on your wheels, right now my car looks like a bar of calicium chloride and my wheels are completely covered with that junk. Oh for a warm day!
While I continue to poke fun at the Zaino users I consider more anal than myself, the fact remains that the stuff works. It takes about half a day over a weekend to do the ritual first application. After that, you rinse it, dry it, and enjoy it. Every so often you might want to put on another coat of something or other and buff it off, but it's not a requirement.
I'm into my sixth decade and tend to drive cars that handle well (as opposed to those that: 1) look like they might handle well or 2) other people think handle well), so how the car looks isn't the priority it might otherwise be. I often go six months without even rinsing the car off. That's less likely for me now that rinsing off pays better dividends.
Point being, if anyone is still reading this forum who doesn't already have an opinion of Zaino, don't get the impression that only zealots use it. I'm not and I do. It works.
After slogging thru 3 days of posts I must say that #1158 gave me the best light hearted laugh of the nite & # 1183 came in second!! My kids were laughing at me today when I took the Stang out and it came back with mud spatters! It's been in the garage for a week becuase of all the snow and crap on the roads but I HAD to take it out! Can't wait for a nice day for a wash and Z!! I'll be glad when things settle down here:-)
I just have a couple newbie questions. I plan to clay my new car in the spring and this will be my first time claying. From what I've been reading, clay takes paint contaminates, tree sap, bug splatters, raildust, etc off the paint. Does it fix minor scratches that may have accumulated from this winter weather? Will claying introduce new scratches if I don't use it properly?
Claying will take off imperfections on top of the paint. It will not make scratches go away.Claying can cause scratches if you don't use enough lubricant with the clay. If you do use plenty of lube, claying will not harm the finish. As far as your scratches go, if they are not deep, (your fingernail doesn't catch in it) I would use multiple coats of Z5. If you don't see an improvement, I would suggest 3M Scratch and Swirl mark remover part #39009. That has some abrasives in it so you have to be careful. If you do use the 3M make sure you dawn wash it off and then re-zaino.
jjccrv said it all. When I clay, I first wash the car and then 'lub' it. I use Z7 (about 3 cap fills) and water (about 20 oz) in a spray bottle to lubricate the panel I'm about to clay. I spray lots of 'lub' on the panel. The clay will then glide over the surface. Even on a new car it will pick up assorted brake dust.
An additional hint: tell your dealer NOT to apply any wax or "hand glaze" to your car. They tend to do that sort of thing. In fact, the first time you wash the new car prior to claying (and using Zaino), I'd use liquid Dawn in water to wash the car. That will remove any wax residue and road oils. After claying and applying Zaino, only use Z7 as your car wash.
Again, nothing against those 3M products, I just don't have any experience with them.
I do know that ALL of the Zaino products were developed by Sal Zaino. Z6 (Gloss Enhancer) is a case in point. The 3M "Detail Wax" is a wax, not a polymer like Zaino's Z2. And because Zaino's Z6 must work with Z2, it had to be developed separately just for Z2. Many companies which produce wax and detailing products have their own gloss enhancer products. Its a natural that car owners would wish to freshen up the finish.
Again, because the Zaino product line is based on polymer chemistry, these products were separately developed to work together and are unique.
I clayed a truck I have had for 21/2 years and a car I have had a month and got alot moree junk off the new car!I suggest claying any new car for sure.
Thanx guys for the info about claying. I've already dawn washed and put a layer of Z1 and Z2 late December. I haven't noticed any scratches on the new car yet but I think I'll put a layer of Z5 anyway so I never find one. Am I correct to assume that the clay will take off my current coats of Z so I'll have a fresh clean surface for new coats?
I have another newbie-ish question for the experienced clayers. Why do you dry the car off before and after claying? Isn't it just going to get wet again anyway when you lube it up? Plus the 2nd dawn wash (followed by dry) should take care of any water spots correct?
My impression was the following: Dawn wash, rinse, clay (lube sections before claying), rinse, dawn wash, rinse, dry thoroughly, Z1, Z2. Note that the only time I dry is after the 2nd dawn wash. This way I dont use up as many towels for drying and I get the whole process done faster. Please shoot me down with the reasons why this isn't advisable. Thanx in advance for any responses.
Sounds good to me I did dry after the clay but it shoulcn't matter.After claying I used the Zaino car wash instead of the Dawn but it shouldn't matter either but don't use the Dawn anymore after that.The clay worked very good for me!
reid8 - I had a different experience with Z-ing my new car. I didn't clay and have no regrets. But I used Zaino almost immediately after I took delivery, following the Dawn wash, Z-1, Z-2 routine. That was last April, on brilliant silver paint, which is still very slick, slippery and super "wet look" shiny! I've added 5 or 6 additional Z-2 coats, plus the repeat Z-1/Z-2 after 6 months.
But I tend to believe that using clay on a new black or dark colored car would pay dividends. On a light color or white, claying may be an overkill for us lazies. I really liked Post # 1176 by cdnpinhead, although most of us who post here are probably a bit less laid back about car care.
I agree the clay can be an overkill, both of mine are black and for sure the Z makes them so much easier to keep clean.I was suprised how much junk I got off the new car,it looked like rust,the clay turned red,I just got finished with the 3rd coat on it and it looks great!!!!!!!
I cannot recommend it enough, even on a brand new car. Before waxing my new car the first time, I used a glaze. It made a great difference, even to new paint, and left the car VERY smooth and shiny, When I switched to Zaino for the next polishing, I decided to clay first, even though the car was already very smooth. I was amazed at how much smoother the paint became, even after the glaze! The applications of Z became effortless. The car was so smooth after polishing that a towel set on the hood would slide right off. I am due to re-Z1 soon, and will clay again first. As they say on TV - just DO IT! It can't hurt and you will be impressed with the results.
automophile makes a valid point. Even though your car "looks" clean, smooth, and shiny too, there may be tiny to microscopic pieces of brake dust embedded in your finish (and/or Z2 layer). These thin but sharp fragments of metallic dust are "shot" into your finish at 65mph (or faster if you drive like me). You may not see them, but you can feel them. When this embedded dust oxidizes (rusts), it leaves really tiny pits in either your finish, clear coat, or Z2 layer. Hey, that's what Z2 is for, protection. Among other things, these pits wear down the Z2 protection layer over time (or an unprotected clear coat).
"Claying" is a very effective way of removing such dust. Try claying a (quote) "Clean" just washed car that has been exposed to the highway elements for a year. You'll see an interesting collection of 'stuff' in the clay. By claying once a year just before re-applying Z1/Z2, you'll leave a really clean surface without any embedded rusting dust. This should make it easier for Z2 to protect your clear coat. And your Z2 layer should last a bit longer too.
I was playin' with car care products this weekend since I have no life. I clayed my hood before laying down a coat. Smooth as glass, baby.
Didn't clay the roof before laying down and I can feel the residue underneath. Lookin' at it, you can't tell. But feel it, baby. Feeeel it.
Just do small sections at a time and use lots of lubricant. I like Meguiars Final Inspection since I'm a stockholder in Meguiars eventhough they are a family-owned company and are not traded publicly.
to the above comments about clay, the truth is that even with a great paint job on a Lexus or Mercedes, for example, it is still not as good and smooth as an expensive custom, hand-rubbed paint job. Clay helps get it closer.
pjyoung - Some people don't have the self-control to stay away.
Meguair's clay doesn't last and they don't give you much. It goes without saying the bang for the buck isn't there. If you do use the Meguair's clay, save yourself an extra car wash and don't use the Meguairs detailer (silicon in the formula) that is recommended. Use Zaino Z-7 or such as the lubricant.
Guess I'm the lonely voice in the wilderness here regarding claying. I didn't, and I probably won't, but I'm still perfectly satisfied with the Zaino finish (brilliant silver) on my 9-month-old car. The paint couldn't get any smoother and silkier, both in looks and feel.
Maybe I'm just not fussy enough, but in my own case I still think claying is an overkill. My car gets limited use and is garaged every night. I also keep it very clean with regular Z-7 washes.
By the same token, I have no doubt that claying works wonders in removing embedded dirt and grime and that claying dark colored paint pays great dividends.
Well the best way to side by side compare is to clay a spot on your car's finish and do a portion and do an A/B comparison. I think after that it is just a decision of whether the work is worth the extra smoothness. I mean, for the effort it takes to do it it is not like you shoud go around touching it after you wash polish it. The clay doesnt prevent scratches.
I have used Zaino now for about six months on my Black MB ML320 and am happy to say that it seems to be holding up very well so far through this winter rain season. Since it seems we are hitting a nice warm stretch I decided to clean it up and give the paint a nice inspection. I noticed that there is dirt already embedded in the paint.
My ML is garaged and washed (usually) every 1-2 weeks. I did clay it when I put my first coat of Zaino on, but my question is how often should I be claying? The hood seems to be in the worst shape. The paint is still slick and smooth, but I can feel tiny bumps on it here and there.
I've been using Zaino on my black Lincoln AS for about a year, and after several Z5 applications, the swirl marks are as bad as ever. I realize it will be impossible to completely eliminate them on a black car, but I've come to the conclusion that it must be the wash cloth, although I thought I bought a quality wash pad from one of the leading on-line car care sites. So, can anyone suggest a safe product that's easy on the paint? Thanks in advance!!!
Comments
1. I have not tried Zaino yet, but I have the check written and the envelope stamped, I just forgot to mail it today.
2. I have a garage full of waxes and other products I've tried. My favorite so far, Mother's 3 step and an orbital buffer. Now for anybody who's tried to wax a full size truck with a hard tonneau knows, it's a lot of damn work. The mothers process is time intensive and very labor intensive. The results are quite nice though.
3. In reading SBW, I noticed a couple of comments about swirl marks and hazing. In reading the Zaino site, everybody seems to have glowing remarks. I don't remember seeing a post in either site where somebody had a bad experience with Zaino.
4. Now just assume that if a SBW user and a Zaino user were given a clean garage and as much time as needed to clean and polish similar cars and they both came out the same, If the Zaino were easier to apply and lasted longer, it'd be an obvious decision. It also seems as if alot of the SBW users complain about getting swirl marks. Maybe it's the wax, maybe it's the method.
Now, being as I am new to everybody here, I think the arguement as I've seen it so far comes down to this.... The Zaino vs SBW is almost like a Chevy vs Ford or an America vs foreign arguement. There is no clear winner as each consumer has different needs and different tastes. So your winner might be my hated loser etc.
I look forward to trying Zaino on my new vehicle and if I am unimpressed, I will switch back to my previous brands.
In the end, all we're talking about here is car wax guys, I mean come on!!!!!!!
The problem and opportunity with a Porter Cable is the relative skill of the operator. It goes without saying that neither Zaino or any SBW protects against improper operation of a "buffer."
To me the use of wax/polish etc etc. vs Zaino comes down to a few things based on a few assumptions. Bang for the buck and effort and ability to last for up to 6 mo. or longer.
If you have a buffer, use it with a good polish and/or glaze to get rid of all your existing scratches and swirl marks, and then 'Z' your car. Claying is also advised, at least once. The ultra smooth finish after polishing and claying will make the application of Z go much faster and easier. I used Eagle One's "Wet Look" on my car as a glaze, and then clayed it for a super slick surface. A year later, it is still really smooth and slick. Z5 will take care of any small marks you may pick up. As long as you wash your car yourself instead of going to a dreaded car wash, you can stay swirl free, and have a glass-like finish.
As you know, a buffer is not recommended with Zaino, once you have removed the swirl marks/defects.(establish your baseline).
If you have established your baseline with other than Z products, it is a good idea to do a wash with Dawn. (blue liguid dishwashing detergent) That washing will serve as a chemically neutral surface so the Z-1 doesn't have to work as hard.
When I was using the normal waxes, I had lots of swirls. And even with Zaino, I'd get those spider webs. In my case, I had used a less than clean towel to remove residue. The dirt in the towel must have contained some hard particals such as metal rust. Such dirt will scratch any paint, clear coat, wax, or polymer. The trick seems to be to keep the newly coated surface free of dust and to use really clean 100% cotton towels made in USA. When using Zaino, please wash and dry your car first taking care to dry it with a clean towel without using much pressure. Don't buff it dry. And then use Z6 prior to another layer of Z2. The Z6 will help remove residual dust and lay down a smooth surface. And then apply the Z2 with an applicator pre-moistened with Z6. Use very light overlapping strokes. When dry, again use very light strokes with a very clean towel to remove the residue.
But if you've managed to collect some swirls (spider webs, etc.), the best cure is Z5 which really will fill in those swirls while laying down a good layer of Z. It really worked for me.
The real structure is that it is against the law (EPA) to apply paint that is more durable. The net effect is that we are stuck with less durable paint.
The reference paint in 1978 was a paint called Dupont Imron? (car paint, JET BLACK to boot) I had two 80 cu in aluminium dive tanks painted with this product and after 30 dives (salt, clear water and intense sun, in FL) not even so much as a swirl mark. (applying that today is probably a felony)
Normally, if I intend to use Z-2, I apply it after a wash. Then, occasionally but not always, I apply the Z-6. Ideally, I apply Z-6 several days after a wash and INSTEAD of a wash -- if the car is very clean and if I first remove any dust layer (NOT DIRT), using a California Duster or a clean towel (100% cotton, of course!). That way I retain the clean surface and prolong the "just waxed" look. My biggest problem is the frequent separate wheel wash to remove the build up of brake dust.
If I'm not mistaken, Sal recommends the Z-6 after the Z-2 or Z-5, but please set me straight if I'm wrong.
What problems did Zaino give you that these other superior products did not?
Name some of these better products...I've tried just about everything I can find. So far Zaino has been the best. Easy on/off, superior protection, and excellent mirror like finish(unlike wax, which gives a greasy feel and does not last thru a rainstorm or high temperature).
I am always looking for a better product though. I won't continue to use a product if I(you) can show me something better. I am not compensated for using Zaino. It is not exactly cheap, but it is well worth the price. Name some better products to try. I will try anything within my budget up to $80 per can of wax.
Has anyone clayed again after the original treatment - say a year later?
I know several people who clay their vehicles every spring.
The only time I clay is if something won't wash off. First thing I try is full strength Z7 applied to the area with a cotton swab. I let it sit for a couple hours and often the stuff just washes off. If that does not work I will re-clay the affected areas.
Actually, I used a slightly different procedure last year. It was a bad winter for my car with all the road salts, etc. 'Had a whole collection of swirls and spider webs. So after a really complete washing (Z7), I clayed the car again and then washed it a second time. I then applied Z1 and then Z5. The results were dramatic. I then waited about 24 hours (the next day), and used Z6. And finally, I applied a coat of Z2. After drying and residue removal, I even used my Z6 again. It was worth it!
Again, there's no need for Z6 after washing and before using Z2. My mistake. What I'll do sometimes is wash and dry the car and then use Z6 when I'm not applying Z2. And about claying each spring: my car a lot of road / brake dust and road salts during the winter. Even after a good wash when the car looks absolutely clean, there will be some embedded tiny brake dust particals present. Although my car "looked" clean after washing last spring, my clay bar picked up a lot of dust. Talk about junk on your wheels, right now my car looks like a bar of calicium chloride and my wheels are completely covered with that junk. Oh for a warm day!
I'm into my sixth decade and tend to drive cars that handle well (as opposed to those that: 1) look like they might handle well or 2) other people think handle well), so how the car looks isn't the priority it might otherwise be. I often go six months without even rinsing the car off. That's less likely for me now that rinsing off pays better dividends.
Point being, if anyone is still reading this forum who doesn't already have an opinion of Zaino, don't get the impression that only zealots use it. I'm not and I do. It works.
My kids were laughing at me today when I took the Stang out and it came back with mud spatters! It's been in the garage for a week becuase of all the snow and crap on the roads but I HAD to take it out! Can't wait for a nice day for a wash and
Z!! I'll be glad when things settle down here:-)
I do not like heavy handed tactics.
I think the community can usually "police" itself.
I like spirited discussions.
BUT... sometimes oxygen and acetylene find their way into the same room and you know what happens.
So. Enjoy your nice clean board and let's keep it clean.
BTW, I DO NOT want all of you posting: "I'll be good, it was just the other guy..." Just get over it and stay ON TOPIC.
Thanks for all the recent posts that were on-topic.
bnormann
Host
Maintenance & Repair Message Board
Specifically, the detail wax and gloss enhancer.
An additional hint: tell your dealer NOT to apply any wax or "hand glaze" to your car. They tend to do that sort of thing. In fact, the first time you wash the new car prior to claying (and using Zaino), I'd use liquid Dawn in water to wash the car. That will remove any wax residue and road oils. After claying and applying Zaino, only use Z7 as your car wash.
Don't get me wrong, I'm just guessing from the info I've read here and at the Zaino site.
And I don't believe the detail wax is abrasive. I could be wrong.
TC
I do know that ALL of the Zaino products were developed by Sal Zaino. Z6 (Gloss Enhancer) is a case in point. The 3M "Detail Wax" is a wax, not a polymer like Zaino's Z2. And because Zaino's Z6 must work with Z2, it had to be developed separately just for Z2. Many companies which produce wax and detailing products have their own gloss enhancer products. Its a natural that car owners would wish to freshen up the finish.
Again, because the Zaino product line is based on polymer chemistry, these products were separately developed to work together and are unique.
I have another newbie-ish question for the experienced clayers. Why do you dry the car off before and after claying? Isn't it just going to get wet again anyway when you lube it up? Plus the 2nd dawn wash (followed by dry) should take care of any water spots correct?
My impression was the following:
Dawn wash, rinse, clay (lube sections before claying), rinse, dawn wash, rinse, dry thoroughly, Z1, Z2. Note that the only time I dry is after the 2nd dawn wash. This way I dont use up as many towels for drying and I get the whole process done faster. Please shoot me down with the reasons why this isn't advisable. Thanx in advance for any responses.
But I tend to believe that using clay on a new black or dark colored car would pay dividends. On a light color or white, claying may be an overkill for us lazies. I really liked Post # 1176 by cdnpinhead, although most of us who post here are probably a bit less laid back about car care.
"Claying" is a very effective way of removing such dust. Try claying a (quote) "Clean" just washed car that has been exposed to the highway elements for a year. You'll see an interesting collection of 'stuff' in the clay. By claying once a year just before re-applying Z1/Z2, you'll leave a really clean surface without any embedded rusting dust. This should make it easier for Z2 to protect your clear coat. And your Z2 layer should last a bit longer too.
Didn't clay the roof before laying down and I can feel the residue underneath. Lookin' at it, you can't tell. But feel it, baby. Feeeel it.
Just do small sections at a time and use lots of lubricant. I like Meguiars Final Inspection since I'm a stockholder in Meguiars eventhough they are a family-owned company and are not traded publicly.
pjyoung - Some people don't have the self-control to stay away.
Some think all I use is Meguiars and that I'm a sell out to them. In reality I only use one of their products currently; Final Inspection.
And apologizin' goes both ways. I'm man enough.....
Maybe I'm just not fussy enough, but in my own case I still think claying is an overkill. My car gets limited use and is garaged every night. I also keep it very clean with regular Z-7 washes.
By the same token, I have no doubt that claying works wonders in removing embedded dirt and grime and that claying dark colored paint pays great dividends.
My ML is garaged and washed (usually) every 1-2 weeks. I did clay it when I put my first coat of Zaino on, but my question is how often should I be claying? The hood seems to be in the worst shape. The paint is still slick and smooth, but I can feel tiny bumps on it here and there.
Chris