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Comments
As Sunday was warm and I was up in Newtown (visiting), and my relatives have a nice driveway, I managed to put another coat of Z5 on the car. 'Did the full wash, drying, Z6, Z5, Z6 in under 2.5 hours. My results are very good. But your CL-S takes the honors. I needed this extra coat before the winter arrives. And oh yes, my relatives still fed me dinner (my wife was not happy, however).
Lex430: Yep, as Joe166 and bh001 stated, you don't have to use Dawn any more. I too would recommend claying again. Using Z1 after only 6 months and only one coat of Z2 is unnessary.
Hmmmm...that CDN .02 is worth about 1/2 cent US?? ;-))
pblevine-
Thanks. I love the shine! I have about 12 coats of Z2/Z5/Z6 on the car since 3/28/01. I might do a Z2/Z6 later this week when the temp is supposed to be in the 70's. That is if I have the energy after work! Some days it's VERY draining!
Wasn't it a great weekend? I should have put the Z2 on yesterday when I was free all day, but.........I just didn't feel like it. I spent time in front of this thing playing pogo.com games trying to win some jackpots! ;-)) I can't wait for Sal to come out with that ZFX!!!
fastdriver
fastdriver: WOW! The Canadian $ must have had a good day ;-)
Oh no! You mean it's LESS than that? ;-)
fastdriver
I started with the Dawn wash when I took delivery to remove the dealer wax, then did the Z-1, Z-2, followed by many coats of Z-2 and Z-6. Applied another Z-1 coat about 6 or 7 months later, followed by more coats of Z-2 and Z-6. I believe Sal recommends Z-1 after about 10 coats of Z-2 or after 6 months (or a year?). Did another Z-1, Z-2 in the spring, and will repeat next month in preparation for the winter.
Bottom line: I'm convinced that claying a new white or light colored car usually isn't necessary, even for a fanatic like me. Perhaps a dark colored car would benefit from claying, or a light colored car that's exposed outdoors 24/7 might require claying. But I'm perfectly pleased with the results I've achieved without the benefit (?!?) of claying.
I got a new Lexus SC430 in April and was new to Zaino at the time. Since I figured the car came with some good paint, I skipped the clay because I did not think it was important on a new car.
Since then, I have put zaino on two used cars, on which I used the clay right after the initial dawn wash, and I was very impressed. At the same time, as I would wash and z6 the Lexus, I learned to feel the small bumps that only clay can remove.
Last weekend, to get the car ready for winter, before my semi-annual z1, I used the Zaino clay, and the difference is astounding.
So, although the car has always been in the garage overnight, and although it had 5 or 6 coats of Z2 almost from the day it was new, and although the car has about as good a coat of paint as I have ever seen on a car, the clay made a big difference.
So, based on what I have read and my experience, I would suggest to owners of new cars that they clay the car before the first coat of z1. It does not take that long, it's not hard work, and I think it can make a big difference. Like mbdriver, I was "perfectly pleased with the results . . . achieved . . . without claying," but I am overwhelmed by the improvement from the clay.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
BTW, I think a Clay more is a mine?
Respectfully,
Larry
On the flip side, there might be a need to clay a new car if the paint is a dark color (black, navy blue, emerald). My unscientific reasoning being that darker colors car can not hide imperfections as well as lighter painted cars.
Particularly with a new car and depending on many factors like how it was shipped, how long it was on the dealer's lot, the pollutants in the air, claying will smooth out the surface to be waxed. The degree of its effectiveness depends on how good (bad) the surface was to begin with.
I've never seen clay harm the surface of any vehicle as long as it is used with plenty of "lube". As with anything else, if you follow the directions, no harm should come from Zaino clay (and, yes it will also safely remove overspray).
Claying takes me, at most, 30 minutes on a relatively large car (300M). After the initial claying, I now only do "spots" that may have tar or other sticky road debris on them.
The extra "smoothness" of using clay on my vehicles (with liberal applications of Z1/Z2/Z5 or whichever Z you use), I find that even tough bug splats rinse right off my finish with no need for harsher chemicals or "cleaner waxes" to do the job. I would imagine that the cleaner/wax or chemicals would be more harmful to your surface than clay is.
As always, if you're happy with your finish with the way you're doing things now, why change?
I see the bennefits on my own finish, though. After a "claying", I also find that it's easier and quicker to apply Z. No quantifiable evidence, but I find that Z goes on easier (if that's possible) and dries quicker on a clayed surface.
I know a claymore is a mine; I thought that was cute.
If you were to use a "glaze" to prep the paint before z'ing, I think you would do that after the Dawn wash, not before. Still, I don't think that's good or necessary for a new car. I did do that procedure on the older cars. First I washed with Dawn to take off the old wax and grease. Then I used a glaze and finish restorer, designed to remove oxidized paint, etc. I did not notice a big improvement with this step, but it was recommended and probably did not hurt. I then did a clay job, and the finish was then perfectly smooth to the touch. I then used a light polishing compound on spots where scratches, splotches or swirl marks were most evident, in order to get rid of as much of that as I could. Then I applied Z1, etc, as usual. The results were very good, especially on the dark green '96 Toyota (RAV4). The same went for the other older car, a 96 or 97 Celica (light blue).
It was at this time that I realized that these older cars had a smoother feel than my new Lexus. I did the clay as described above, and can feel a noticible difference. I'm not sure if there is any visual difference; I'm sure to the ordinary observer there is not.
But I can feel the difference when I work on the car, and that's half of the joy of using Z, when I know the finish (black) is as good as any on the road.
I also use the Calif Duster on a regular basis as necessary, and follow with z6 maybe once a week or as necessary.
I don't think it's the black paint vs silver in this regard, as we are talking about the smooth as glass feel of the paint to the naked hand. We know that the Z shine is more mirror-like on dark colors, and that white and silver are the two light colors where the shine is less noticible. On the other hand, it's really a [non-permissible content removed] trying to keep a black car looking clean, as we all know, as it shows every spot of dust.
One final observation: it was on the top of the hood and the top of the trunk where I noticed the problem that needed clay; the doors and other horizontal surfaces already seemed smooth. Perhaps this is the "rail dust" or other metalic fragments that settle onto a car after after painting or during shipment.
I don't think clay is routine upkeep; but if you feel some small "bumps" that might be metallic dust on the surface, the clay will smooth that out without much work. Hopefully, however, I will not have to clay the car again for a long time.
That's about all I know about clay.
"Claying" WILL remove the tiny (even microscopic) bits of metalic brake dust that can penetrate your clear coat, rust out, and leave very small (tiny) pit marks. Its those little critters which degrade your clear coat/paint. That (in part) is what both wax and Zaino are designed to protect your car against. Let the damn dust degrade a layer of Zaino rather than your paint. The other popular little bits of junk (sap, mud, road salts, and saliva from Mequiars user's mouths, etc.) are also removed by claying, but that's icing on the cake.
I've been claying once per year in the Spring. As my car is a daily commuter normally exposed to all sorts of heavy stuff, I've been collecting more than my fair share of Meguiar killing globs. And yes, you can actually feel some of them thar bumbs. When I do feel or see such stuff (the technical term is: "Terrible Taliban Bits" or talibits for short), I know its time for a little Claymoring. Thus, during my next washing session, I'll (lightly) rub my magic Zaino Clay Bar over a tabibits infected panel after I've washed with Z7/water. And then I'll rinse as normal. Presto and the talibits are history. And so, in conclusion, our guys over the Afgan Talabits need more "clay".
My question is would using clay clean out the affected areas, or would nothing less than a repaint do? I'm definitely not going for a repaint, but it'd be nice to know if clay would help so I may order some in the future.
Thanks!
Leo
In short, probably no benefit, but try it.
I did talk to Sal about new droppings, and he is clear that time is of the essence in removing them. By nature, they are acid, and it will eat through the Zaino, then through the clear coat, and finally will start to work on the paint itself.
When removing them, be careful because, as noted, birds eat gravel and poop it out. So don't wipe the bird do around on the paint, as it will scratch. The best thing to do is wet it down (with Z7 if you can) and lift it off as best you can without wiping.
Using this technique, I have kept spots from forming, as I get to the stuff before it has time to eat through the Zaino.
I think you have at least a day or two, but I'm not sure.
That's all I know about bird poop. Thanks for asking.
LOL..... I was just in there and read your comments. I also went to that site the other day to see what it was about. Of course, they not only bashed Zaino, but also all the Zaino Zealots who e-mailed them within 8 hours of their site being on line!
I sent them e-mail this morning. I didn't bash them because I think their Zaino comments were ridiculous. I gave them a few "hints" on how to apply it. I also said that the long term test would be interesting. Of course I could probably predict the outcome already!
I also sent them a "FEW" of my Zaino pics of the previous 300M and the Acura CL. Same links that are in my profile above. No word back from them.
As far as I'm concerned, they and anyone else can use whatever they want. It has no affect on me or my car. I just know the shine and protection I've had on both cars that I've used Zaino on.
fastdriver
They give customer support a C-...yet they were able to talk to the owner of the company and said he was nice...but "gruff". I guess he gets an "A" for being nice and an "F" for being gruff which averages out to a C- ??? Or maybe they expected to him to go to Bella Visa, Arkansas and show them how to properly apply it.
WAX TEST - I haven't read the review, but I would bet that the magazine has waxes as advertisers. so it cannot be objective. This holds the same for any magazine that takes advertising - the reviews cannot say what they want. Try and find one that says something bad about an advertiser's product!
fastdriver - your car is so shiny now, I think it burned in a spot on my monitor!
LOL... THAT was funny! Guess they never heard a NY accent before! Wonder if they were able to talk personally to the owner/CEO of the other companies without going through 10 people to get to him/her? Guess you're right- A and F= C-!!
automophile-
LOL........WELCOME HOME! If your monitor wasn't so big you wouldn't have a burn spot from my ZAINO shine! ;-))
As for the clay issue- I never clayed the 300M because I hadn't heard about clay until AFTER I had several coats of Z on the car. It seemed fine to me. That car was never clayed.
As for the Acura, I did clay that. I can't really say for sure if claying improved the appearance because both cars looked fantastic to me. I figure the claying didn't hurt and was not hard to do, so I did do it for the new car.
fastdriver
PS Maybe Sal can go to speech school to "soften" his "gruffness"!! LOL...... I just laugh at this whole thing. BTW- the wax test people did e-mail me back and said they followed the Zaino directions "verbatim" and waited the "obligatory" 6 hours between coats. They were glad that I liked Zaino and said that I should keep using it.
Leo
ps. My car already looks great with just 3 coats of Z5. Soon I'm going to put Z2 on, and I can't wait to see how much more shinier it'll make her.
"3.) We are evaluating the waxes subjectively, and averaging grades as assigned by the group."
This is what the "group" consists of:
"3 people testing, 2 people assisting with site design & judging, and a few wives throwing in opinions (that weren't counted) :-) Total of 5."
Rick
Try:
1.) The ability to order the Z product on line.
2.) *In this day in age, it's kinda unbelievable that Sal can't process credit card orders.
I bet most people consider those issues, a barrier to a top box customer service experience.
* Perhaps Sal has a bad credit rating?
-Larry
fastdriver - too bad you can't post the superb photos of your Acura and 300M on the other forum. That would really intimidate them, and I'm sure you'd be accused of photo doctoring, trick photography, etc.
You can try to clay it. It certainly can't hurt, but I doubt that it would do much good, either. Next step would be to try 3M polish pad. Just keep in mind that this will intruduce very light abrasives to your finish. If that doesn't work, then you're going to have to go on to a light rubbing compound. If that doesn't work, you're probably looking at a "repaint".
pblevine--talabits??????? You a funny guy!
And you do have a point about not being able to order Zaino online and Sal not accepting credit cards (people CAN hold contentious opinions and still be civil). Perhaps Sal is old fashioned or refuses to be dragged into the 21st century.
However, neither of the above shortcomings is a problem for many Zaino users because Sal has a network of local distributors. Mine is terrific! He accepts personal checks or credit cards, and he even delivers, with super fast service.
One question for you -- have you ever actually tried Zaino? If so, I'd be interested in your opinions.
"ORDER EASE: How easy is it to order or purchase merchandise from this particular vendor? If it's online, do they have a secure shopping cart?"
I am taking issue with their customer support rating. "CUSTOMER SUPPORT: Ok, so you've got a minor problem. How well did they handle it?" Customer support has nothing to do with ability to order online or via CC. Sal would talk ad nauseum to a person before or after purchasing his products. He offers extensive support of his products. And for this he deserves an A IMO. The testers should elaborate on the C- and why they raised it to a C+.
Of course,if the minor problem is that they don't take online orders or CC then you would be correct and they should remove the Ordering Ease category and include that criteria in the Customer Support category.
I responded as politely as I could, but I'm still amazed at how much Zainoites are despised and accused of heinous crimes.
You're kidding me, right? That was said in jest, wasn't it?
I mean, I know better only because I've been around here a little while. So have you.
You sound like Hillary Clinton with that comment.
I'm not sure if your comments are a compliment or an insult?!?. Hillary? Don't forget, she's now a distinguished senator from the great State of New York! And some believe she'll become the first female U.S. President. We should be so successful!
In any case, I'm certain we both know about my comment. But it really is amazing how emotional people can become over car care products. Loyalty to an alma mater or military service is one thing, but . . .
BTW, how are you able to use italics for the quote?
Check out this site for tips on how to change your posts color, font, add italics and bold, things like that:
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
How-to's are in "Tutorials".
-Larry
I'm sending the order in today for my Zaino products. Since I talked to Sal on the phone (I found him "nice, but gruff") about weather I should clay or not, I will share HIS thoughts on it. Sal said to wash with Dawn and rinse. Take a piece of cling wrap large enough to cover the palm of your hand and go up over your fingertips, and of course put it over your hand. Then run your hand over the paint of your car. If you feel anything, use the clay. In other words, He reccomends it.
I was kidding about the "gruff" part. He sounded like a busy guy who gets to the point.
BTW, I have a 01 Suburban LX, Redfire Metallic...purchased about 8 months ago.
JnJ
proto, fastdriver, mbdriver, joebob, etc.: I'm getting just a little tired of the anti-Zaino crowd. If they want to use their favorite wax, that's just Jim Dandy with me (Shifty: see, I didn't curse). But to actually go out of their way to insult Sal, customer service, etc. is truly a joke. Hey, its true that Zaino is "hard" to order. You have to write a check. Hard work, very hard. Especially if you're not quite literate. Gimme a break. May a Talibunny marry one of their daughters.
Did Hillary actually run over a guard?
(Bret - Note the italics! Thanks again.)
Yes. The security guard had to get his arm treated at a hospital. Hillary can probably cop out by saying her driver did it, but she's probably the one who told him to drive through the checkpoint :-)
It was in a *small* local NY newspaper (I can't find the URL now). The big ones didn't carry the story at all, nor did any of the local media in Boston.
Hate to be the killer here but I did this months ago on one of my cars, I honestly see no difference between the cars I applied Z over carnuba wax as opposed to the ole Dawn wash and Z application. To my knowledge, other then theory and Sal's opinion, this has never been studied by anyone. Is it possible that there is no diff or it may actually be better but Sal does not want to promote another product be used prior to his. Who knows.
I am only saying that I see no difference to date!!!! I have come to like Z and will continue its use but there is no scientific proof (theory yes, but no proof) that Z over carnuba makes the Z less effective. Perhaps I missed something 2000 posts ago.
.
LOL.......I don't even know how to doctor a picture or use trick photography or I would be busy doctoring bin Laden pics!
As for the wax test- I got a good laugh. I know what my Acura looks like and how easy it is to keep it looking that way! Let them use whatever they want.
fastdriver
Also has anyone had experience with the Zaino leather cleaner?
Thanks,
Julie
Regarding the Zaino leather products, I'll have to agree with joe166's post above. The leather cleaner is good but not great. The leather treatment product (the second Zaino leather related product) also seems to do a very good job, but I don't have anything to compare it against. The treatment product contains mink oil, is very easy to use, smells great, and does the intended job.
Nor do I know if the cleaner is designed to be used with the conditioner, or if it is just as effective on bare leather or leather treated with another conditioner, such as Lexol.
Given that, I will report that I find the products excellent. Apply the conditioner with your bare hands; it goes further, goes on more completely, and feels good, too. I have found that the cleaner takes off both scuff marks as well as general surface dirt extremely well.
I'm not sure if these are the best on the market, but they well might be. I do know that I am very happy with the results I have had keeping high quality white leather in a convertible soft, clean and smelling good.
What more can you ask for?
Any pics of that beauty? I love that car, but can't afford a new one. I should know what color you have because I'm sure I read it here, but I forgot. Is it red? ;-)) Maybe I'll buy it in a few years. ;-) I love a white interior. Had that on my 94 Infiniti J-30. Not many companies make a white interior anymore.
fastdriver
I will compare the Zaino and ?? then post my results here.
Also, Where can I purchase the California Water Blade/ Duster that I have read so much about? I've never seen one.
Julie
The big advantage is that the Zaino products leave a great REAL leather smell (as opposed to some "fake" leather smelling stuff that I've been in contact with).
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/detprod.html
Blades are in "wash and dry". Dusters are in "quick detail".
In the last four months, I've spent a fair amount of time at the Autopia web site. You can learn a lot about all aspects of auto detailing.
http://autopia-carport.com/forum/forumdisplay.php3?s=9bbef64675d03168016dd1aa51c7e4ed&forumid=3
I'll tell you what I like about this web site, the really don't bicker about their preferred wax/polymer paint protectant of choice. The folks there, DO have their egos however; NO ONE claims their product "is the end all , be all" of paint protection. Now, for me; thats the rub with Zaino. Some folks at this topic are so cocky about the merits of Zaino, I'm turned off to the stuff. This is not a flame, just my honest opinion.
-Larry