Zaino Car Care Experiences

pblevine

Unfortunately not true. Meguiar's is a "wax" based product and Zaino is a "polymer" based product. Meguiar's is one of the best waxes and Zaino is the best of the very few polymer products. Wax is a hydrogenized hydrocarbon (carbona wax [sic]). The Zaino polymer is a chemical which (upon drying) forms very long linked molecule chains which act sort of like a chain link fense. The various chemicals added to both products are very different due to the nature of the type of bonds required for waxes vs polymers. Not only are those "feature" chemicals (UV filters, anti-static agents, etc.) different but the manner in which they react is also rather different. Therefore, simply knowing the chemical combinations of their "secret ingredients" will not reveal their bonding and reaction "methods".

cyranno99

where did you get this information? What is the exact makeup? Do you have this from the patent office?

bretfraz

Read PB's post again.

Here's my point: Meguiar's is not a "wax". Meguiar's is a company that produces and sells car care products. They offer a wide variety of products including both carnauba-based and polymer-based products. They have mutiple distribution channels for which they develop and sell specific products.

By comparison, Zaino Bros. is a very small, family-owned and operated business. They produce and sell a small line of car care products, most of which are designed to be used together as part of a system. They have no retail distribution by design; they are strictly mail order. I have never seen or heard of any advertising or product promotion. They offer 13 different products.

So what we have is a classic "David vs. Goliath" story.

The only reason I post this is to alert readers to the need to compare specific products, not brands or companies. So comparing a little mail order company to a much larger one offering dozens of products is not valid. Be careful you don't get drawn into generalizations that mean nothing.

Stick to comparing specific products and evaluating results based on equitable testing of those products.

pjyoung

Stick to comparing specific products and evaluating results based on equitable testing of those products.

But I still haven't seen one post from you in this topic that does that.

dhanley

You seem pretty stuck on the zaino.

It dries to form long polymer molecules? Really? Have you broken it down yourself to determine what in in the stuff, and what happens when it dries? For one thing, your chemistry is wrong. A chemical does not dry into a long(er) molecule.

You declare that it's the best of the polymers. Based on what test? You say we need testing, then you declare your feeling as fact with no test at all.

You say meguiars's is a wax. Really? They sell many products, waxes and polymers.

dave

pblevine

bretfraz: That's actually a very good post and I concur. But first, yes, Meguiar's does have some complex chemistry in some of their products. And I could go through a rather detailed explaination of why unbonding polymers are different from bonding agent activated polymers such as Zaino. But let's go to cyranno's question:

cyranno: I'm no expert but I have been reading and asking questions. Almost as an aside, I'm on contract to Con Edison, and in our engineer office here in White Plains we have some GE engineering vets who were involved with polymer chemistry up in Pittsfield, MA. I've tried to tap their minds, call Sal Zaino, and just generally read up a bit on the subject. Still, what I really know about this subject is less than some of these chemists have forgotten. Luckily, Sal Zaino is one of those experts. It turns out that the chemical properties of waxes and the various types of polymers are well known and common knowledge that you can access via the net or any library. But we don't have to be chemists in order to judge these products. Tests such as the one published in this topic and our own experiences are enough to form opinions and make critical judgements.

That's why pjyoung (hi pj - how are you), bretfraz, and I who normally disagree on which product to use, can at least agree with pj's post above.

cyranno99

I don't want to belittle anyone in TH for their differences in opinions, but I cannot consider Sal to be a fair expert.... Yes, I do have enough chemical backgrounds if I want to do research on this stuff, but I don't feel the need to do it.... consider this, the marketing schemes of toothpaste manufacturers. As you can see... their active ingredients are the same.....

pblevine

We all seem to be going 'round on this subject. I try to steel a minute here and there between my normal work to look at the net. If I don't answer for awhile, its only 'cause I'm busy here at work. Anyway, you may have a point about the "active ingredients". Polymers (as I understand it and I'm not an expert) can be constructed to have attachment-like properties which permit additional molecules to be attached, and various "active ingredients" can thus be added into the mix. So, UV filters, anti-static compounds, etc. can be added. I guess you can then compare the composition of each such feature as a method of analyzing competing products. That, however, is way beyond my abilities. And I don't know that either Meguiar's or Zaino will be willing to disclose the composition of their additives. But, give it a try. Might prove interesting.

bretfraz

But I still haven't seen one post from you in this topic that does that.

You're right, I haven't. And I won't.

I've never claimed that a particular brand I use is clearly superior to another. I've never attempted to take a moral high ground based on my choice of car care products. I use eight different brands of products, and have used dozens of brands during the past 20 years.

I have no desire to convince others to use the same brand of car care products as I do. I use too many competing brands to do that objectively.

I think if someone passionately feels the product or brand they use is so superior to all the others, then that person should back up all their statements and opinions with facts and objective analysis.

I simply don't understand the motivation of some people who make public proclaimations of the superiority of one brand or product, yet fail to supply a reasonable amount of proof supporting their claims. It is exactly what Snake Oil salesmen did many years ago. Perhaps you could elaborate in a logical and sensible fashion?

pjyoung

attack like you did since my first post (since deleted because it was obviously worthless as so eloquently pointed out by you in every subsequent post). Not bad for a guy who never resorts to name calling or attacks.

Mr_Shiftright

why don't you two shake hands and save your poor host a lot of work?

bretfraz

I can play nice as well as play mean. So I'm game if you are.

pjyoung

As I told you offline, I posted something related to this topic and was in essence called a liar by bretfaz. No matter what I posted, which did not include any personal comments or attacks on him, he responded with nothing about this topic, just hammering my opinions and observations, lowering himself to personal slams and all the while claiming that I was notorious for personal attacks. I deleted my posts because I got sick and tired of writing about my experiences only to have replys from him be personal attacks. I was engaged in a discussion (civil I might add) with dhanley. He and I are on opposite sides of the fence, but he had lots more class that to post, in essence, "you are a liar". I wish Edmunds had an ignore feature. Bretfaz would be my first addition.

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, okay!

Any OTHER comments on this subject or are we ready to shut it down? Please let the host know what you'd like to do......

Mr. Shiftright

graphicguy

I've used both Durashine and Collinite.

I used Durashine on my wife's car. She bought it a couple of years ago based on the infomercial. It's garbage...fair shine, terrible durability (but if you want to set it on fire, it works great). I finally pitched the slightly used bottle of it sitting in my garage this past spring.

Collinite is a good premeium wax. The Marque d'elegance is excellent. Durability is better than Meguiars and the shine is as good, maybe a little better. I still have some left. I used it before I tried Zaino a few years ago.

Quite honestly, when I started using Zaino, I found that I preferred to stick with it because it is easier to use than Collinite and it doesn't leave the white residue. I haven't used the Collinite since then. I keep it around because my sister brings her car to my house to wash and wax (she lives in a condo with no garage or washing facility). I don't want her to use my stash of Zaino (and she won't buy her own), so I let her use the Collinite.

pblevine

'Just curious, how do the Zaino panels look compared to those done with Collinite? Not only shine but swirls too. Except for testing, I've never seen a car done with two+ products. Might make for some interesting effects.

joebob6

Just kill the thread...It is going nowhere anyway.

bretfraz

Anytime you can kill a Zaino topic is good thing as far as I'm concerned.

bretfraz

I wish Edmunds had an ignore feature. Bretfaz would be my first addition.

Yes, we've talked about your problems with self control many times in the past. No progress, I see.

pjyoung

as you can see, bratfez can't let it go. Shutting it down will permit him to go back to the Store bought waxes and "wax" philosophically about the Merits of Meguires.

Note to bret...I know that I never took any personal shots at anyone who had a differing opinion in this topic. Once it's closed, grab a hot cup of coffee and look at YOUR responses. They don't make a lot of sense because you had a bug up your rear about me. But read 'em and make a note of all the good info you provided.

div2

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, then, if you can't get along, I'd better shut the store before you both get into worse trouble. Next time, try to enjoy yourselves and don't take all this personally, okay? You are supposed to be here to have fun.

Thank you everyone for your participation and for an interesting link to that "test".

Mr. Shiftright
Host

camryv6

I bought a uesd white 1999 camry le v6. It was a used rentel car. There are alot of swirl marks on the car from the car washes. I polished this car like four times. But the car waxes i bought were junk.
Is the zaino wax the blue colored one. And is this wax good.

joebob6

Zymol is the Blue Colored wax I think you are referring to. Zaino is only available thru local distributors or via mail order. www.zainobros.com

armtdm

I haven't inspected closely the difference in panels but just looking at the cars they seem similar. Zaino holds up much better though. I am also one of the few that have applied Zaino over a carnuba wax, done it on two cars. It probably does not last as long, I do have one where I followed Sal's directions and that has been at school with daughter for 6 weeks so next week I get to see how the Zaino is holding up. Sitting under a tree and no washes in that time frame. However, shine on cars with Z over carnuba really looks as good as straight Zaino but again, it may not be as durable. I just hated to wash off the perfectly good and recent carnuba when I got my Z in the mail.

pjyoung

Zaino's not blue, so you're thinking about a different wax. I have noticed that the Z5 "swirl remover" didn't do as well on my white car as it did on my dark blue car. I don't know why that is. You might try a polish with some mild abrasives to see if you can get the swirls out, then finish it with Z1/Z2. If they are really bad, you may not be able to get them out no matter what you use, short of taking it to a detailer.

pblevine

armtdm: That's interesting. Again (I'm sure you've heard this before), Zaino over wax cannt bond with the clear coat and thus, will wash away at first chance.

pj: I think (opinion not fact) that swirls cut into the clear coat/paint should be buffed out prior to applying "Z". Z5 WILL eliminate those swirls that consist of micro-scratches in the "Z" layers via the fill-in method. Z5 will also help will the deeper swirls but cannot possible be as effective there. And your suggestion of using a mild abrasive first is probably the best advice we can give someone with that condition. PS: Its amazing to see how some of the "other" folks go nuts in that M vs Z test topic. What's your opinion.

pjyoung

No comment.

janmap

I 'zainoed' my car last October Z1/Z2.
I have been using Z7/Z2/Z6 since then (approx. 4 layers). When should I apply Z1 again? How do you prepare the surface for it?

pblevine

You could probably get away with not using Z1 for awhile yet. I apply Z1 about once a year too. My method is simple. First I do the normal wash with Z7. Next, I clay the car to remove any residual brake dust, etc. I wash again (Z7+water). Then I apply the Z1. After waiting about 5 minutes, I follow with an application of Z2. Then I let it dry overnight and remove the Z2 residue with a good towel. And finally, I then apply some Z6.

theresa11

Here's my problem - I need to re-Zaino my car. The Zaino is still giving off a bright shine, but it has been almost a year. Originally put on 3 coats and can not say enough about Zaino! I use the Z7 to wash the car by hand which unfortunately is only every few weeks. My problem is that I can not do the re-Zaino myself (bad hip). If I took the Zaino products to a car detailer would they do it, or am I asking for trouble? Any comments?

Bushwack

I suppose if you furnish Sal's instruction sheet on how to apply Zaino and you supervise, its the next best thing to doing it yourself.

headers8

I thought that waxing a new car would give it an initial protection that would go a long away protecting the body from weather, rust and othre corrosion...
However I heard that waxing a new car is not a good idea as the wax is "too strong" for a new car's paint, and it is better to do so after 6 or 8 months. Is there truth to this???

protegextwo

It is ok to protect your new auto's paint finish right away. Nonetheless, since your paint is in the best condition it ever will be, "brand new", it is a great idea to protect it properly. There are a lot of products available and possible "waxing" programs to follow, however you will need to decide how much time and money you will wish to spend. The WAX/POLISH topics here at Edmunds are one of the really good places to start your research. I also reccomend AUTOPIA.COM.

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/

BTW, the ZAINO product, that this discussion refers to by name, is considered a very good high end polymer multi-step product. A comparable high end polymer multi-step product, that is a tad easer to apply is called KLASSE. Both products are rated top box by their users and are available only thru mail order. If you prefer a "over the counter" wax/polish program, check out Meguiar's and/or Mother's products.

Respectfully,
Larry

pblevine

Has anyone heard anything new about the ZFX Quick Cure & Multiple Coat Enhancer and Z1 replacement product. Wasn't it supposed to be released this month?

robr2

Sal responded to my e-mail asking about it and he said it will be 1-2 months. I read that as a late November to late December timeframe.

Too late in the year for me to use but there is always next spring.

protegextwo

I thought they froze this discussion? Two posts in four days. I guess the bloom is off, the Zaino rose?

-Larry

pjyoung

and most of us have already applied our "winter coats". Decided against starting any war on the other board by suggesting to the guy who wanted something to take him thru winter to ask over here. Guess he'll be looking for an above freezing day to wash and M7 and M26 his sled.

fastdriver

pblevine-

When I wrote to Sal earlier this month, he said 45 days which would take it to November 18-19 for the ZFX!! Blooms still on the ZAINO rose here! How about there? ;-))

fastdriver

PAman

There's lots of hype out there, but here's a test conducted by an Acura NSX owner that proved interesting. He pitted his "custom" $144 a jar Zymol NSX wax against Zaino, Mequiars and the inexpensive Zymol wax sold in discount stores.

He also used several other NSX owners to help judge the results. Considering that many of these guys think of their cars as if it were their religion (there's something very sad in that thought) I knew they would "take no prisoners" when it came to determining which wax worked best.

Here's the link to see the results of the test:

http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html

Have a good day!

Joe

pblevine

Thanks for the info. I'm still going to try to put another Z5 layer on before the real winter hits us. I would have liked to use the ZFX additive for extra protection. And as for "blooms", ignore proto..... This is nuts, first he baits us, and if we respond, he complaigns that we're being too aggresive. Well, damn the coconuts, full speed ahead.

bigbadboss101

Is it ok to use the Zaino products on a new car? I would think the Dawn, Claying isn't necessary at all when new. Do the Z1, Z2, and Z6 is ok? Or should the paint be aged a bit before waxing?

joe166

Sure it is, unless you got the custom water based brush applied job. You might think you don't need to Dawn, but the problem is that most dealers, even if you tell them not to will put a quick glaze on the car to take off the grime and deposits from the transportation of the vehicle. That is the best reason to do the prep. I am not sure that it is absolutely essential, but the dawn is to remove all other waxes and the clay is to smooth out rough stuff, including but not limited to acid rain, bird droppings, iron shavings from the rail road tracks, etc etc. As I said, I am not sure it is essential, but if you are going to the trouble of using this product, why not go the whole way and follow the manufacturers reccomendations? If you don't get the results you expect, it is kind of hard to complain if you didn't follow the directions.

bh0001

Absolutely you should Dawn wash and clay even a brand new car. I know for a fact that the dealer didn't touch my car, but I did both anyway and I'm glad I did. If you are truly committed to having the BEST looking finish on your car, you won't mind the little extra time to do these two steps.

protegextwo - Bloom off the Zaino rose? Not me!

fastdriver

pblevine-

LOL....... Full speed ahead!! That's me!

Sal- we NEED our ZFX fix. Come on. You know we need something else to "HYPE" besides pics of our shiny Zaino cars! Speed things up! It's getting colder in CT.

fastdriver

fastdriver

New Zaino pics from yesterday.

Zaino pics Oct. 21, 2001

Enjoy.

fastdriver

lex430

Hi, I started the Zaino process about 6 months ago, the shine is great! However, I did not clay the car being that it was brand new when I got it.

It's been 6 months, and I am thinking of starting the process over, I am wondering what is the recommended steps?

Should I Dawn wash, clay, Z7, Z1, then Z2/Z5, Z2/Z5..etc??

joe166

There is no reason to Dawn a car that already has Zaino on it. The purpose of using Dawn is to remove waxes or other things that have been applied to the finish which might diminish the Z shine. According to Sal Dawn does not remove Zaino so it would be futile, but you probably want to wash it anyway, so the only harm is that you are using a very harsh detergent on your finish when you don't have to. If, on the other hand, you use clay with some other gloss product as a lubricant, you will have to use Dawn to remove that product if you want to follow the instructions to the letter. If it looks good right now, just wash it, and then put the right gloss product on it. You only have to use Z1 once a year according to the instructions. I would probably want to do the clay and then do the Z1, but you sure don't have to.

bh0001

I started Zainoing my car back in May. As prep for winter I decided to clay and Z1 again, just to be "safe". It really doesn't take that much extra time to go through these two steps, so if you're really picky about your car's appearance (as I am), I would recommend doing them anyway.

Just my CDN$0.02.

lex430

Let me get this straight, I do NOT need to dawn the car again. So, the steps would be to do a Z7 car wash, clay, Z7 car wash, then Z1?