Thanks for your suggestions. I usually use a high concentration of dishsoap when i want to do a through cleaning, but usually use the car wash solution most of the time... although i don't scrub, i just use an old sponge or something. It just seems that the tire dressing i use just doesn't last. Maybe if i scrubbed the tires really clean it will help. Having clean sidewalls on a truck can make a difference. I've used several products ranging from spray to gel. Right now i'm using this solution that sprays out of a can but doesn't foam. Its silcone based and pretty easy to use. The manufacturer is ZEP and so far, it seems promising. Its only for commercial use only though.
To make your tires look their best, it is essential to clean the rubber first with any of the cleaners mentioned above, or good ol' Westley's Bleche-White (That's how it's spelled) tire cleaner. Once you have all the old greasy tire dressing and accumulated road grease and grime off, and you are down to clean rubber, 2-3 layers of the Zaino tire dressing will give you very good looking tire. I have found that it dries hard, not sticky, so you can simple wash the tires with your Z-7 car wash and they will look good for several washes.
Wheel cleaners are also advised if your wheels are really dirty and greasy, but don't use them too much. Most are caustic to remove the grease and brake dust (and any wax or polish) and can eventually harm your wheel's finish.The will also take off the tire treatment, so plan to clean the wheels and tires at the same time.
Clean the wheels good ONCE, then Zaino them with Z2 or Z5 for protection. Then, you only need to wash them with Z-7 to keep them clean. A separate sponge or mit should be used so the grit never finds it's way to your paint, and a soft brush is good for getting between the spokes and in the recesses.
My vote is for Z7 wash followed up with Z2. I use a paint brush to wash the alloy wheels on my 01 Buick Regal. I wrapped the metal band on the paint brush with duct tape to eliminate any chance of scratching the wheels.
I was in NAPA over the weekend getting a battery for my lawn tractor. As I'm loading up the battery in the parking lot, a guy comes up and comments on the Cruiser and its shine (all very positive). I told him what I used and that it was only available mail order.
He motions me to his F150 Pick-up (also very shiny) to show me some wax he had in the bed of the truck.
It was called "Der Shiny Stuff" (stupid name). He had cases of it and other products all starting with "der". He had clay, car wash, seat treatment...all the normal finish care products under the same brand name.
He was selling it out of the back of his pick-up. While I don't buy things from the back of pick-ups in parking lots, and I don't want to pollute the shine I've got, I do have to admit his truck looked good.
That got my curious side up. Looked up "der shiny stuff" on the net an found their WEB site. Sounds an awful lot like Zaino. Anyone heard of this "stuff" or used it?
Don't want to try "der" anything on my cars. But, you're right...I should try it on the ever growing auto population of vehicles in my stable...just none of the Zaino'd ones. Something has to go! I've got an old Chevy Blazer (closing in on 170K miles and still runs strong) that I used to tow my boat. Boat is gone, so I think the Blazer must go, too. Hate to do it, since there's a lot of fun memories I had with that beast. Maybe try some "der Shiny Stuff" (if I can still find the guy in the pick-up truck full of it). I don't want to waste any Zaino on it.
robr2...it's funny you mention setting it on fire. Their WEB site shows that. Still a really stupid name for a product.
...sorry - I mentioned the fire because I saw it on their website (www.dershineystuff.com).
Maybe it does work - who knows. I've finally found something I'm happy with. I have not put on a coat of Z on either car in 4 weeks and have only washed once due to water ban. Vehicles still glisten and the beading with the recent rain is great - I love how all the water splashes onto the windshield of the Ody when I step on the brakes!!
I gotta admit that I actually laughed out loud when I went to the Der Stuff web site. Particularly funny was the caption under the photo: "Der Dave." Also the line, "If you don't like what you're using now, STUFF IT!"
But I think I'll just stay with Zaino.
BTW, Bret had an interesting comment over on the "Store Bought Waxes - No Zaino Posts." He said he'd found water spots on his car's finish, had trouble removing them, and "so much for Zaino." I'm not sure what he expected, but given Bret's expertise and experience with car detailing I was a bit surprised that HE was surprised by the water spots. I haven't had any on my own Zainoed finishes, but the cars are almost always garaged, and they're washed regularly. I suggested that he should have tried either Z-6 or Z-7 to remove the spots. Maybe I should have added clay.
I don't think any product prevents water spots from etching. I even believe Zaino's optical clarity may be a contributing factor to acid rain etching faster than on a waxed surface.
The one time that I had noticed some spots(I am not even sure what these spots were - they did not look like typical water spots) after washing and QDing: I was able to remove them using Z1.
That is why I have stated that Z1 is not obsolete. Its cleaning ability came in useful...at least for the spots I had.
Every once in a while, someone will take a "shot" at us Zaino users. I don't even go over to the "Store Bought Wax" thread anymore.
A couple of years ago, this debate was raging and quite heated, which prompted the split into "two topics". I know that fastdriver was here then and so was pblevine, I think. One of the best detailers I've ever talked to, Chris Parrish, got so "brow beaten" he left and never came back. Hopefully, daverose still lurks. Not ideal in my estimation since all of us have so much in common we could share, but so be it.
I, too, was around when the flames were red hot! It got quite nasty and occasionally quite personal. Z-users are often accused of being outlandish in their defense of the products' worth, even close to being a cult. I have to admit that sometimes we get carried away by what Zaino does for a car's finish, including the shine, the long-lasting protection and ease of use.
But I think the other board does offer some good ideas and is worth reading.
LOL.... do I ever remember!! We were all called SHILLS!!! Accused of working for Sal or owning stock in the company!! Here it is FOUR years later since I started using Zaino and who has the shiniest car around! ;-)))))) AND..I'm NOT out there 24/7 to keep it looking like that!!
I posted pictures a while back of what my car looked like with NO Zaino applied since LAST March! It looked good. A few weeks ago, I gave it a coat of Z-5. Looks fantastic again.
I was very lazy this summer because of the heat and the fact that I had Vertigo all summer up until a few weeks ago. I wasn't too wild about stooping and bending. The CL looked good enough to me. Besides, I lease this car. I keep it clean for ME, not the next person. Even though I'm not out there 24/7, the next person will be VERY happy with this troublefree, shiny Acura.
I have the other group bookmarked too, but I have not read the last 200 messages. I have NO clue why I even keep it.
Chris Parrish is alive and well and still around- just not HERE!! I believe it was 'shoman"- don't hold me to it- who started all the flame wars here. Man, it was hotter than HE//!!
Oh well- to each his own. There's plenty of waxes/polishes out there for everyone. I just found the one that works for ME!
"Every once in a while, someone will take a "shot" at us Zaino users.
Why are you bringing this up? I don't think anyone was taking a "shot" at Zaino users on the other board. I think Bret got some water spots, is not happy with the way Zaino protected and posted his opinion. I see nothing wrong with that.
If I was selling wax out of the back of my truck, I would be waxing it EVERY day. Of course it would look good. For that matter, less scrupulous people would ZAINO their cars and say it was "der" stuff. Don't be taken in by such sales pitches! When "Der" stuff has an on-line following for a couple of years, and user's cars that look like fastdriver's, I MAY consider it.
Also - Don't be so surprised by bretfraz's posts on the "other" forum. Regardless of his "sheep's clothing" here, he never passes up a chance to deprecate Zaino products to others and will even bend the truth to make his point, e.g. in the above mentioned post and in an earlier one, commenting that Zaino did not remove scratches very well (DUH - of course not - it's not abrasive, and he KNOWS that!). Be aware.
LOL... NO DER here, just "der" ZAINO!! ;-))) I really don't know if there could be anything easier to use or apply as Zaino. When did a car look so good after 5 months of NOTHING applied to it except soap and water?
mbdriver...I thought you may have been around during the "flame wars" but wasn't sure. I'm sure there are some on the other thread that would be helpful in sharing their "tips". Just posting "over there" (which I haven't done in a long, long time) caused derision towards me personally and some nasty personal e-mail's to come my way. So, I just don't go there. Besides, all the help I need, I can get right here. I've yet to see anything that looks as good, anywhere using any other products on your car or fastdriver's, or pblevine's or automophile's, or squidd, or........
fastdriver...Chris got me through my "first" Zaino application. Plus, he was very helpful with other tips/tricks not even related to using Zaino. Just a great guy and very helpful. Where is he these days? I'm getting ready to put in another order for ZFX/Z2/Z6/Z7. If anyone else is planning on a purchase, maybe we can get a "group purchase" together. The weather here is cooling off. Perfect time to put a couple of coats on before winter.
Automophile...the "DER" guy I ran into was using the same words to describe the stuff he was selling..."it's optically pure...it's easy to put on/take off...etc". Almost sounded like Zaino. That's what got my curiousity up. Very satisfied with Zaino. NO reason to use anything else. However, it looks like some may want to continue the "debate". I don't want to go there, though. After all, I have over 4,000 posts here that will help if I need it. Plus, there's always the call to Sal, the owner of the company, to give advice if I need it.
Funny story...a couple of weeks ago I attended a "cruise-in". There was a guy there that had a booth set up, selling some sort of "pure carnuba" wax and glaze, towels that were supposedly used in Germany for high buck cars, etc. About every 30 minutes, he would start the same speech/demo all over again. He had the hood of a cadilac that he kept waxing over and over with the wax/glaze and towels. The hood he was using was filled with swirls when you got close enough to look at it, which I pointed out to him. He asked me what my car looked like? As luck would have it, my cruiser was parked two spaces down from him. Of course, I had just zaino'd it the previous day with a fresh Z6 touch-up that morning. It looked great with the sun reflecting off the chrome and paint. By comparison, his wax job (with at least 10 coats he applied that day) looked dull. He accused me of having a custom paint job (no such thing...just factory paint with 2 coats of Z2). That was the best compliment I had ever received.
Ya know, the good ol days. I especially love to hear from all the old guys who were front line soldiers and online flamers but now have a hard time even recalling those days of yore. A few guys have come and gone but it's still the same crew of bomb throwers today as it was yesterday. Some things never change except for the selective memories of the core crew in this thread.
But JOEBOB is correct - I wasn't taking a shot at anyone in particular but instead at the long held view that Zaino is so slick and protective that virtually nothing sticks to it and that driving a wet car will blow off the water and reduce or even prevent spotting. Ain't true and my 6 coats of Z is proof.
Two Z7 washes didn't dent it. P21S wash did nothing. Took a wash from Blackfire shampoo to make a diff. But my car will definitely need some work with my PC and DACP to get the paint looking good. Swirl marks are raising their ugly heads again so a shot of SMR or PPCL will be in order too. And please don't mention Z5 as an SMR - after three vehicles I've found it sucks big time for that purpose.
Anyway, nice to be the center of y'alls attention again. Good to know I'm still #1 on the Most Hated list.
No memory lose here. Maybe "most hated" isn't quite the word some of us would use. You hated Zaino from the first time you even HEARD about it, never mind using it. Anything negative you say about it doesn't surprise me in the least.
Glad you finally found something that you like. No- THANK GOD you found something that you like! We ZAINOHOLICS are "safe" again! ;-))
If you'd bother to look back in time in this thread and the other one you will read that I've stated several times that I don't "hate Zaino" as until recently I had never tried it. It took a free sample kit from a friend to convince me to compare it to my current (and extensive) inventory of products.
What I have said over and over is that I don't care for a number of the PEOPLE who use Zaino, many of whom are or were regular posters in TH. Dig back into the TH archives and you will find what I am talking about.
Saw a TV commercial yesterday about GS 27 scratch remover. Seems very easy to use and great results. Anyone has experience with it? Do you think it will work with Zaino on the car?
I'll temper my comments about GS 27 because I've never used it. I've never found products touted on the "infomercials" to be worth their asking price. I kind of put GS27 in the same league as the colored waxes that are out there. That is to say, not very good. Go to 3M, Langka, or any number of other proven scratch treatments.
bret...
"I especially love to hear from all the old guys who were front line soldires..."
Are you saying we're all old "geezers"? Just a feeble attempt at humor...now let me go sit back down in my wheel chair and rest a bit before I put on another coat of Z2.
You have to sit in your wheelchair too before applying Zaino? Man, I thought I was the only one who had to rest before that arduous chore. You must have to rest a lot because you have the 300M and the PT Cruiser to Z. Be careful. Don't exert yourself. Maybe you should go over to that OTHER topic and find something easier to use even if you have to do it every month!
yes, every coat of Z2 takes all of about 20 minutes on the 300M and about 10 minutes on the PT. I must rest between each coat to save my tired old bones....LOL!
Off topic, but I just noticed in the local paper this a.m. that they are offering loaded G35s around here for $27.5K. I miss driving my 300M since the wife took it over.
The PT is a fun drive, though. And, it hauled my mower and mulch last weekend. That's something I couldn't do in the 300M or the G35.
I do think that sometime in the next couple of years, when the 300M hits the 100K mark, I'll turn the PT over to my wife (since she's the one who wanted the PT in the first place) and jump on the G35. I really do like that car. Then again, the 300N could be out by then....so many choices, so little money.
In the last 6 weeks we've gone from 5 vehicles down to two. Gone are the Avalon, Chevy Blazer and a Saturn. My son has an older LeSabre but that's totally his responsibility. Insurance bill went from $3,500 year for all vehicles to $1,800. I can now pull into my garage without having to tell someone to move one or the other car out of the driveway. Life is good.
My Dad had the perfect solution to "all the cars in the driveway". The last one home was to reshuffle all the vehicles in the order for the next day. If you didn't, you were either awakened at 4:30 AM to the sound of Dad "forgetting" to use the clutch or your car with all your books gone for the day.
More than once, I've taken one of the cars in the driveway "that wasn't mine". Only to come home hours later to get some sort of chagrinned face from the "original" driver. Usually the complaints turned into whining about this or that couldn't be done because I took someone else's car.
My response? "Too bad...so sad!" If I'm blocked from pulling my car out of the garage, I'm taking the first car in my way.
That's when my son started parking his car on the street. One of my "pet peeves" was when my wife pulls her car in the driveway, blocking mine in the garage. I never could figure out why she just didn't pull it into the garage so no one would be blocked in. Of course, I never said "too bad...so sad" to her. I surely don't want to be on her "bad side".
It's weird having only 2 car keys on my key chain instead of 5. Now, I don't have this huge bulge in my pocket and I don't fumble for the right key. I like it!
Sorry I haven't been around for a few weeks. I've been involved in a very heavy system conversion effort and didn't even have time to sleep. This effort should be finished after next week (I hope!).
Bretfraz: Hey man, chill out. You're welcome here and have made a positive contribution. No need to go back to our past problems.
graphicguy: I do miss Chris Parrish and hope he is doing well. We all learned a lot from him. Also, that funny story was great! Almost choked on my coffee as I read it. There's a fellow here who uses Mothers on his pickup. Lots and lots of wax with very little cleaning/washing between applications. His swirls have swirls. He took one look at my car and "determined" I was cheating!
fastdriver: 'Hope you are feeling better. My dad hasn't had a Vertigo attack in over 4 months now. Progress. And I too haven't had much of a chance to work on my car over the last few weeks.
LOL.... OK.. now, the $1,700 that you are saving on the insurance goes into a separate account for either the 300N- if they EVER decide to make it the way they should have originally- or the G35. I like the G35 too. Can't wait to see the 2-door version coming out soon. I already know that they have a shade of red that I like! ;-)))
pblevine-
Thanks. The Vertigo just disappeared about 4 weeks ago the same way it appeared- SUDDENLY!! I was taking the anti-vert 3 times a day even though it didn't make the Vertigo disappear. I hope I never get it again. It pretty much slowed me down for the whole summer which wasn't too bad because I did do a lot of stuff around the house. I never did Z the CL though until 8/23. Before that, it hadn't been Z'd since last March. It still looked good though, but not as good as I knew it would look with a fresh coat of Z. To the "ordinary" person though it looked great!
I still need to put on a few more coats before the snow starts flying, but by the time I get home from work, I'm pretty much wiped out! It's nice enough outside right now to wash it and Z it, but I don't feel like it. Maybe tomorrow! ;-))
Don't work too hard unless YOU'RE the boss. No one really cares in the long run! Life is too short.
Every post I have ever come across by those that have tried it said to avoid it at all cost. Remember to believe NOTHING you see on TV or in the movies.
I haven't been in here lately. The Z is working fantastic. Took the Buick in for an oil change today. The service guy tried to sell me that Teflon junk again. I showed him the Z car and he couldn't believe it. I promised to bring him some Z samples so he can do his car.
how long after new paint do you need the wait before applying zaino? this isn't the factory stuff - the car was hit and the hood and front panels were replaced. any suggestions? i've heard a lot of different things...
I too have heard all sorts of curing time estimates. With the new water based paints, only a day or so should be required. But I'm no expert. My recommendation would be to first find out exactly what type (brand, etc.) of paint was applied, and then, call Sal at Zainobros. He would really know the answer and is more than willing to help out in such situations.
I had my front bumper, hood, and fenders painted in July. The body shop people told me to wait 3 MONTHS before putting anything on the paint (wax is what I assume they were talking about). So I emailed Sal Zaino and he told me to wait one week at the most before putting Zaino on.
Over 3 mo. ago I detailed my 2 late-model DC vehicles- a Gr Caravan and a 300M. Both have dark-colored factory paint in excellent condition. One weekend my wife & I thoroughly cleaned each vehicle (inc. bug&tar remover, claying, and washing with Dawn). Then the GC got Mother's liquid Cleaner Wax (2 coats) while the 300M got Z1/Z5/Z6/Z5/Z6/Z2/Z6 (my first Z use !). That sounds like alot on the 300, but the Z's go on and off so easily that my total "rag time" doing the Z's by hand was less than my time doing the 2 coats of Mother's CW using a power buffer on the (larger) minivan. Both vehicles have seen similar usage since then, inc. garaging at night & regular Z7 washes. Observations: 1. The Z shine was slightly better at the start, but WAY better after 2-3 weeks. After about 4-5 weeks, the Mother's CW shine was about gone & I had to wax again. The Z is still shining strong after 3+ mo. 2. The Z is a slicker finish. Dirt & bugs are MUCH easier to wipe off the Z-treated car than the waxed van. The Z looks much cleaner after driving in the rain- the wax finish seems to hold on to alot more road grime. 3. Z5 provides a gloss slightly less than the glass-like shine of Z2. Some even prefer the look of Z5 to Z2. Z5 can cover finer swirls, but even several coats are no substitute for true swirl removers (which are abrasive). I choose to live with a few swirls a this point rather than apply an abrasive SMR. (I can always do that later if things get worse!)
Bottom line- I am very happy with Zaino (original Z1 process- I have not tried ZFX) as a cost-effective, beautiful, and durable shine. I'll put another coat of Z2 on before winter and see how it holds up to Midwest salt spray. Long ago I gave up on regular waxes lasting 3-4 mo. in winter. To be fair to Mother's, I think their CW performed similarly to my past experience with Meguiar's CW. Both are inexpensive "mass-marketed" products, but I happened to have some Mother's on hand. I have not tried either company's newer polymer-based polishes.
Glad to hear your first encounter with Zaino was so positive. Same thing the regulars have been saying for a while. It takes much less Zaino to achieve the results you experienced, plus it lasts much longer. So, in the long run, Zaino is cost effective and your choice over Mother's.
Just ignore those who, for whatever reason, feel it neccesary to slam your post.
bret...not in the mood to take the bait from your attempt at "fanning the flames".
It's a shame the uninitiated and nonbelievers who lurk here don't acknowledge (or realize) that Zaino costs are about comparable to (or in the long run even less than) store-bought, one-step cheapy products that require frequent, labor-intensive re-application to achieve almost similar (but a quickly disappearing) shine! Let them wallow in their ignorance while we celebrate the ultimate (at least for now) car-care product!
(Bret -- I don't think I took the bait either, but it sure is fun, ain't it? I was hoping for a comparo of performance figures and subjective styling analysis between a used Yugo and a new Mercedes-Benz S500.)
I don't know what he is trying to prove. Jona57, if you had come to the Autopia forums and posted that exactly as written I would bet he would never make a reply like that. He would have ignored the post and moved on. http://autopia.ws/forums/
In fact, he never even mentioned on Autopia about his water spots problem that he mentioned in the other forum, i.e. "So much for Zaino's resistance to water spotting."
between the Infiniti G35 and the BMW 330i since the original topic comparing the two has degenerated. It's a good thing cause I'll probably end up with a M45 anyway.
Zaino is not for everyone. Could you imagine if it was? BTW, I've used it for over two years on my black Silverado and use whatever's lying around for the lighter colored Denali which I lease.
Just washed the CL-S today after weeks of not washing it. Looks and feels GREAT since my one application of Z on August 23rd. Previous to that- last application of Z was last March.
I question the common sense of someone's post (I didn't question them, just the post) and I get three (count 'em!) direct or thinly veiled personal attacks.
How typical. Of course the mods will never assess any punishment to those who clearly and blatantly violate the terms of agreement.
I feel sorry for all the honest and decent lurkers who are just looking for unbiased information about car care products. Hint: Don't look in this thread!
I can't understand why someone would waste the time and energy to visit a board and post poorly contrived insinuations time and time again, when eveyone on the board is aware of the duplicity. Is there some perverse thrill to trying to get people riled? It's not like there is any value to such posts. I guess some people just have WAY too much time on their hands and low self-esteem.
If someone was posting poorly contrived insinuations and they were viewed as duplictious and valueless, why would anyone get riled?
Unless of course it was clear to everyone that said posts were based in truth and fact, supported by the past writings of those who responded with multiple personal attack.
Lies that attempt to cover past lies do not create truth. Personal attacks upon veiled antagontic commentary does not create a moral and ethical high road.
"I question the common sense of someone's post (I didn't question them, just the post"
Why bother to question it at all? I don't think the author of the original post was looking for any opinions on his findings. The people on this forum don't care whether you agree with his findings or not. And referring to the members of this board as the "choir" is insulting.
Be gone infidel! Dost thou dare to besmirch the sacred name of Sal, to doubt the great miracles wrought by the Temple of Zaino? And Chris Parrish-who arose on the third application of Z7-now sits at the right hand of Sal. At the last trump, the heavens will roll back as a scroll, and the protection offered by all other car care products will wither and be thrown into the lake of eternal acid rain. And lo, only those cars which bear the mark of Zaino shall be delivered. Sal-ellujah!
I must say that it does seem to me as though bretfraz has a point when he insinuates that this board has become a place where anyone not touting the Zaino party line is highly discouraged from expressing his opinion, to put it mildly.
Don't get me wrong - I use Zaino exclusively because it does a great job for me and even if something better exists "out there", I am unwilling to experiment.
But let's leave the board open to dissenters, OK?
PS - I have noted from some of bret's comments that he does use Zaino, albeit not at all exclusively, a point which many of you seem to have missed. So, for goodness sakes, fellow Z lovers, let's not give folks rightful cause to accuse Zaino users of being the most narrow minded folks around!
Comments
Wheel cleaners are also advised if your wheels are really dirty and greasy, but don't use them too much. Most are caustic to remove the grease and brake dust (and any wax or polish) and can eventually harm your wheel's finish.The will also take off the tire treatment, so plan to clean the wheels and tires at the same time.
Clean the wheels good ONCE, then Zaino them with Z2 or Z5 for protection. Then, you only need to wash them with Z-7 to keep them clean. A separate sponge or mit should be used so the grit never finds it's way to your paint, and a soft brush is good for getting between the spokes and in the recesses.
He motions me to his F150 Pick-up (also very shiny) to show me some wax he had in the bed of the truck.
It was called "Der Shiny Stuff" (stupid name). He had cases of it and other products all starting with "der". He had clay, car wash, seat treatment...all the normal finish care products under the same brand name.
He was selling it out of the back of his pick-up. While I don't buy things from the back of pick-ups in parking lots, and I don't want to pollute the shine I've got, I do have to admit his truck looked good.
That got my curious side up. Looked up "der shiny stuff" on the net an found their WEB site. Sounds an awful lot like Zaino. Anyone heard of this "stuff" or used it?
DUH??? Never heard of DER??? LOL...... HOW could it possibly be better than ZAINO?? Should have bought some to use on the Saturn! ;-))
fastdriver
robr2...it's funny you mention setting it on fire. Their WEB site shows that. Still a really stupid name for a product.
If curious, here's their WEB site:
http://www.der-realstuff.com/index.html
Maybe it does work - who knows. I've finally found something I'm happy with. I have not put on a coat of Z on either car in 4 weeks and have only washed once due to water ban. Vehicles still glisten and the beading with the recent rain is great - I love how all the water splashes onto the windshield of the Ody when I step on the brakes!!
But I think I'll just stay with Zaino.
BTW, Bret had an interesting comment over on the "Store Bought Waxes - No Zaino Posts." He said he'd found water spots on his car's finish, had trouble removing them, and "so much for Zaino." I'm not sure what he expected, but given Bret's expertise and experience with car detailing I was a bit surprised that HE was surprised by the water spots. I haven't had any on my own Zainoed finishes, but the cars are almost always garaged, and they're washed regularly. I suggested that he should have tried either Z-6 or Z-7 to remove the spots. Maybe I should have added clay.
The one time that I had noticed some spots(I am not even sure what these spots were - they did not look like typical water spots) after washing and QDing: I was able to remove them using Z1.
That is why I have stated that Z1 is not obsolete. Its cleaning ability came in useful...at least for the spots I had.
A couple of years ago, this debate was raging and quite heated, which prompted the split into "two topics". I know that fastdriver was here then and so was pblevine, I think. One of the best detailers I've ever talked to, Chris Parrish, got so "brow beaten" he left and never came back. Hopefully, daverose still lurks. Not ideal in my estimation since all of us have so much in common we could share, but so be it.
But I think the other board does offer some good ideas and is worth reading.
I posted pictures a while back of what my car looked like with NO Zaino applied since LAST March! It looked good. A few weeks ago, I gave it a coat of Z-5. Looks fantastic again.
I was very lazy this summer because of the heat and the fact that I had Vertigo all summer up until a few weeks ago. I wasn't too wild about stooping and bending. The CL looked good enough to me. Besides, I lease this car. I keep it clean for ME, not the next person. Even though I'm not out there 24/7, the next person will be VERY happy with this troublefree, shiny Acura.
I have the other group bookmarked too, but I have not read the last 200 messages. I have NO clue why I even keep it.
Chris Parrish is alive and well and still around- just not HERE!! I believe it was 'shoman"- don't hold me to it- who started all the flame wars here. Man, it was hotter than HE//!!
Oh well- to each his own. There's plenty of waxes/polishes out there for everyone. I just found the one that works for ME!
fastdriver
Why are you bringing this up? I don't think anyone was taking a "shot" at Zaino users on the other board.
I think Bret got some water spots, is not happy with the way Zaino protected and posted his opinion. I see nothing wrong with that.
Also - Don't be so surprised by bretfraz's posts on the "other" forum. Regardless of his "sheep's clothing" here, he never passes up a chance to deprecate Zaino products to others and will even bend the truth to make his point, e.g. in the above mentioned post and in an earlier one, commenting that Zaino did not remove scratches very well (DUH - of course not - it's not abrasive, and he KNOWS that!). Be aware.
LOL... NO DER here, just "der" ZAINO!! ;-))) I really don't know if there could be anything easier to use or apply as Zaino. When did a car look so good after 5 months of NOTHING applied to it except soap and water?
fastdriver
fastdriver...Chris got me through my "first" Zaino application. Plus, he was very helpful with other tips/tricks not even related to using Zaino. Just a great guy and very helpful. Where is he these days? I'm getting ready to put in another order for ZFX/Z2/Z6/Z7. If anyone else is planning on a purchase, maybe we can get a "group purchase" together. The weather here is cooling off. Perfect time to put a couple of coats on before winter.
Automophile...the "DER" guy I ran into was using the same words to describe the stuff he was selling..."it's optically pure...it's easy to put on/take off...etc". Almost sounded like Zaino. That's what got my curiousity up. Very satisfied with Zaino. NO reason to use anything else. However, it looks like some may want to continue the "debate". I don't want to go there, though. After all, I have over 4,000 posts here that will help if I need it. Plus, there's always the call to Sal, the owner of the company, to give advice if I need it.
Funny story...a couple of weeks ago I attended a "cruise-in". There was a guy there that had a booth set up, selling some sort of "pure carnuba" wax and glaze, towels that were supposedly used in Germany for high buck cars, etc. About every 30 minutes, he would start the same speech/demo all over again. He had the hood of a cadilac that he kept waxing over and over with the wax/glaze and towels. The hood he was using was filled with swirls when you got close enough to look at it, which I pointed out to him. He asked me what my car looked like? As luck would have it, my cruiser was parked two spaces down from him. Of course, I had just zaino'd it the previous day with a fresh Z6 touch-up that morning. It looked great with the sun reflecting off the chrome and paint. By comparison, his wax job (with at least 10 coats he applied that day) looked dull. He accused me of having a custom paint job (no such thing...just factory paint with 2 coats of Z2). That was the best compliment I had ever received.
@! of of him, he was praying the cops would come rescue him! HA ha!
But JOEBOB is correct - I wasn't taking a shot at anyone in particular but instead at the long held view that Zaino is so slick and protective that virtually nothing sticks to it and that driving a wet car will blow off the water and reduce or even prevent spotting. Ain't true and my 6 coats of Z is proof.
Two Z7 washes didn't dent it. P21S wash did nothing. Took a wash from Blackfire shampoo to make a diff. But my car will definitely need some work with my PC and DACP to get the paint looking good. Swirl marks are raising their ugly heads again so a shot of SMR or PPCL will be in order too. And please don't mention Z5 as an SMR - after three vehicles I've found it sucks big time for that purpose.
Anyway, nice to be the center of y'alls attention again. Good to know I'm still #1 on the Most Hated list.
Have a nice day!
No memory lose here. Maybe "most hated" isn't quite the word some of us would use. You hated Zaino from the first time you even HEARD about it, never mind using it. Anything negative you say about it doesn't surprise me in the least.
Glad you finally found something that you like. No- THANK GOD you found something that you like! We ZAINOHOLICS are "safe" again! ;-))
fastdriver
If you'd bother to look back in time in this thread and the other one you will read that I've stated several times that I don't "hate Zaino" as until recently I had never tried it. It took a free sample kit from a friend to convince me to compare it to my current (and extensive) inventory of products.
What I have said over and over is that I don't care for a number of the PEOPLE who use Zaino, many of whom are or were regular posters in TH. Dig back into the TH archives and you will find what I am talking about.
here is a link I found from google: http://www.seenontvmall.com/automotive/gs27.htm
bret...
"I especially love to hear from all the old guys who were front line soldires..."
Are you saying we're all old "geezers"? Just a feeble attempt at humor...now let me go sit back down in my wheel chair and rest a bit before I put on another coat of Z2.
You have to sit in your wheelchair too before applying Zaino? Man, I thought I was the only one who had to rest before that arduous chore. You must have to rest a lot because you have the 300M and the PT Cruiser to Z. Be careful. Don't exert yourself. Maybe you should go over to that OTHER topic and find something easier to use even if you have to do it every month!
fastdriver
Off topic, but I just noticed in the local paper this a.m. that they are offering loaded G35s around here for $27.5K. I miss driving my 300M since the wife took it over.
The PT is a fun drive, though. And, it hauled my mower and mulch last weekend. That's something I couldn't do in the 300M or the G35.
I do think that sometime in the next couple of years, when the 300M hits the 100K mark, I'll turn the PT over to my wife (since she's the one who wanted the PT in the first place) and jump on the G35. I really do like that car. Then again, the 300N could be out by then....so many choices, so little money.
In the last 6 weeks we've gone from 5 vehicles down to two. Gone are the Avalon, Chevy Blazer and a Saturn. My son has an older LeSabre but that's totally his responsibility. Insurance bill went from $3,500 year for all vehicles to $1,800. I can now pull into my garage without having to tell someone to move one or the other car out of the driveway. Life is good.
My response? "Too bad...so sad!" If I'm blocked from pulling my car out of the garage, I'm taking the first car in my way.
That's when my son started parking his car on the street. One of my "pet peeves" was when my wife pulls her car in the driveway, blocking mine in the garage. I never could figure out why she just didn't pull it into the garage so no one would be blocked in. Of course, I never said "too bad...so sad" to her. I surely don't want to be on her "bad side".
It's weird having only 2 car keys on my key chain instead of 5. Now, I don't have this huge bulge in my pocket and I don't fumble for the right key. I like it!
Bretfraz: Hey man, chill out. You're welcome here and have made a positive contribution. No need to go back to our past problems.
graphicguy: I do miss Chris Parrish and hope he is doing well. We all learned a lot from him. Also, that funny story was great! Almost choked on my coffee as I read it. There's a fellow here who uses Mothers on his pickup. Lots and lots of wax with very little cleaning/washing between applications. His swirls have swirls. He took one look at my car and "determined" I was cheating!
fastdriver: 'Hope you are feeling better. My dad hasn't had a Vertigo attack in over 4 months now. Progress. And I too haven't had much of a chance to work on my car over the last few weeks.
'Back to work --- Have a good weekend all.
LOL.... OK.. now, the $1,700 that you are saving on the insurance goes into a separate account for either the 300N- if they EVER decide to make it the way they should have originally- or the G35. I like the G35 too. Can't wait to see the 2-door version coming out soon. I already know that they have a shade of red that I like! ;-)))
pblevine-
Thanks. The Vertigo just disappeared about 4 weeks ago the same way it appeared- SUDDENLY!! I was taking the anti-vert 3 times a day even though it didn't make the Vertigo disappear. I hope I never get it again. It pretty much slowed me down for the whole summer which wasn't too bad because I did do a lot of stuff around the house. I never did Z the CL though until 8/23. Before that, it hadn't been Z'd since last March. It still looked good though, but not as good as I knew it would look with a fresh coat of Z. To the "ordinary" person though it looked great!
I still need to put on a few more coats before the snow starts flying, but by the time I get home from work, I'm pretty much wiped out! It's nice enough outside right now to wash it and Z it, but I don't feel like it. Maybe tomorrow! ;-))
Don't work too hard unless YOU'RE the boss. No one really cares in the long run! Life is too short.
fastdriver
Pic of my car at 3736
how long after new paint do you need the wait before applying zaino? this isn't the factory stuff - the car was hit and the hood and front panels were replaced. any suggestions? i've heard a lot of different things...
Observations:
1. The Z shine was slightly better at the start, but WAY better after 2-3 weeks. After about 4-5 weeks, the Mother's CW shine was about gone & I had to wax again. The Z is still shining strong after 3+ mo.
2. The Z is a slicker finish. Dirt & bugs are MUCH easier to wipe off the Z-treated car than the waxed van. The Z looks much cleaner after driving in the rain- the wax finish seems to hold on to alot more road grime.
3. Z5 provides a gloss slightly less than the glass-like shine of Z2. Some even prefer the look of Z5 to Z2. Z5 can cover finer swirls, but even several coats are no substitute for true swirl removers (which are abrasive). I choose to live with a few swirls a this point rather than apply an abrasive SMR. (I can always do that later if things get worse!)
Bottom line- I am very happy with Zaino (original Z1 process- I have not tried ZFX) as a cost-effective, beautiful, and durable shine. I'll put another coat of Z2 on before winter and see how it holds up to Midwest salt spray. Long ago I gave up on regular waxes lasting 3-4 mo. in winter.
To be fair to Mother's, I think their CW performed similarly to my past experience with Meguiar's CW. Both are inexpensive "mass-marketed" products, but I happened to have some Mother's on hand. I have not tried either company's newer polymer-based polishes.
Jon
Next comparo: Performance figures and subjective styling analysis between a Pontiac Aztek and a Ferrari 360 Modena.
Just ignore those who, for whatever reason, feel it neccesary to slam your post.
bret...not in the mood to take the bait from your attempt at "fanning the flames".
(Bret -- I don't think I took the bait either, but it sure is fun, ain't it? I was hoping for a comparo of performance figures and subjective styling analysis between a used Yugo and a new Mercedes-Benz S500.)
I don't know what he is trying to prove. Jona57, if you had come to the Autopia forums and posted that exactly as written I would bet he would never make a reply like that. He would have ignored the post and moved on. http://autopia.ws/forums/
In fact, he never even mentioned on Autopia about his water spots problem that he mentioned in the other forum, i.e. "So much for Zaino's resistance to water spotting."
Zaino is not for everyone. Could you imagine if it was? BTW, I've used it for over two years on my black Silverado and use whatever's lying around for the lighter colored Denali which I lease.
LOL.........................
Just washed the CL-S today after weeks of not washing it. Looks and feels GREAT since my one application of Z on August 23rd. Previous to that- last application of Z was last March.
fastdriver
How typical. Of course the mods will never assess any punishment to those who clearly and blatantly violate the terms of agreement.
I feel sorry for all the honest and decent lurkers who are just looking for unbiased information about car care products. Hint: Don't look in this thread!
fastdriver
It's not like there is any value to such posts. I guess some people just have WAY too much time on their hands and low self-esteem.
Unless of course it was clear to everyone that said posts were based in truth and fact, supported by the past writings of those who responded with multiple personal attack.
Lies that attempt to cover past lies do not create truth. Personal attacks upon veiled antagontic commentary does not create a moral and ethical high road.
Why bother to question it at all? I don't think the author of the original post was looking for any opinions on his findings. The people on this forum don't care whether you agree with his findings or not. And referring to the members of this board as the "choir" is insulting.
Sal-ellujah!
Don't get me wrong - I use Zaino exclusively because it does a great job for me and even if something better exists "out there", I am unwilling to experiment.
But let's leave the board open to dissenters, OK?
PS - I have noted from some of bret's comments that he does use Zaino, albeit not at all exclusively, a point which many of you seem to have missed. So, for goodness sakes, fellow Z lovers, let's not give folks rightful cause to accuse Zaino users of being the most narrow minded folks around!