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Geo Metro Tire and Wheel Questions

jdncaljdncal Member Posts: 1
edited July 2014 in Chevrolet
I have a 1994 Metro and have 2 broken wheel studs in the front. I removed the tire, the 4 bolts to the rotor and the hub bolt was removed. Why doesn't the hub come off? The hub has to come off to replace the studs but what do I need to do? Thinking I have to use a slide hammer puller but I only have two lugs to mount the puller to.


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    indhelpindhelp Member Posts: 2
    I have a 93 Geo Metro 4 door Hatchback. It's been a very reliable car and very easy on gas. A few months back, I started hearing a knocking sound coming from the right side. Mostly while I was sitting at a red light, or when I would put it in reverse. One day as I was turning a corner it made a funny sound. A few miles down the road, it started shaking and I thought I had a flat tire. I pulled over and looked and the tire was not flat. I called road side assistance and had it towed. I haven't been able to drive it since. Can anyone please help me to understand what the problem might be? I've heard a couple people say it might be the A frame. Or maybe it needs new tires and an alignment. :sick:
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    pipemanpipeman Member Posts: 58
    Yes, you must used hub remover.
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    pipemanpipeman Member Posts: 58
    Yes - you must use the hub pulley remover.
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    nosrednaydujnosrednayduj Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1997 Geo Metro which has been converted to electric drive, and the spare tire well is full of batteries. No spare was provided with the vehicle when I bought it. I want one, as I regularly drive 20 mile trips. I've posted on usedpartscentral.com, but was wanting to look on ebay as well. I see a couple of spares available for other model years (92, 91). Wondering what the compatibility is. Thanks. Also, when was the metro turned from the Geo brand to the Chevy brand? That will help my searches.

    Judy Anderson
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    demonchilddemonchild Member Posts: 2
    are there any other cars that i can get rims from and use on my car? like the older 4 bolt mustang rims or aveo rims? i want wider tires.......4inch wide tires arent gonna cut it for me..

    oh i have a 1995 geo metro 4 door 4cyl 1.3L
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    munchkin2munchkin2 Member Posts: 1
    Just a bit of info for all U people with 12in tires...
    We have a 92 Geo Metro and it sat dead in the water for some months because of not finding the ever so popular 12in tires it needed that are so hard to find.
    We have come to learn that 13in tires and rims with the right bolt pattern will work just bueatifully.
    The measurements are side to side 3 1/4 and across 4 1/2. the rims can come from a mid 70's dodge colt, Plymouth horizon, I believe even some volkswagens also... Hope this helps, wish I'd of known it sooner I almost thought of getting rid of the car at one point because of not finding 12in tires...
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    esheljeeshelje Member Posts: 2
    I keep burning up the front tires on the inside .How do I adjust the alignment??? HELP!!!! :cry: :sick:
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    bugsbugnibugsbugni Member Posts: 1
    I have a 92 metro with 328,000 miles . To check your allignment you will need a tool to measure the inside distance between both front tires in the front and the distance between the wheels at the back. I use two thin pieces of wood taped together in such a way as to the slide on each other to be able to place it on the wheel forward edge of both wheels. slide the two pieces out so that it is snug. where the two pieces are next to each other mark across both pieces with a pencil. you will use this measurement along with the measurement you get from doing this at the rims closest to the back of the car. take the measurements let say 40" front and 39" back. this will show that you have toe out of one inch. there are jam nut on both tie rods going to both wheels . loosen them and depending on toe out or toe in you can make your adjustments. check and recheck. around 1/4" toe in is good. I have used this procedure on numerous vehicles and it works great . one set of tires lasted me 88,000 highway miles and my steering wheel is dead on. also keep in mind that it is best to have the car on ramps with weight on the front end due to some cars will vary toe in/out with car in air or on ground. if your steering wheel is straight, or if your car pulls to one side or the other or if your steering wheel is of and your car does not pull, then you have to see what it takes to correct this. questions reply I will help you if I can. I have seen just about all combinations including a cadillac that would wear out a tire in one week , it had hit a curb at high speed. i was able to correct it with just alligning it
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    garynofishinggarynofishing Member Posts: 1
    Is there anyone out there who knows for sure what the factory original tires were for my -------or ANY----- 1989 to 1994 Geo Metro? I am wondering if it was Yokohama. Hopefully, someone who has or has a low mileage car remembers what was on it. I know the tire size was 145/80R/12
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    rondean15rondean15 Member Posts: 3
    I have a friend that used wheels and 13" tires off of a 2000 Hyundai Accent. Says it drives a lot better.
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    butch22butch22 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 92 Metro which came stock with the 12" wheels. I want to use the 13" rims but the lug nuts seem too small to tighten the wheel up. Can i get the right size nuts which are a little bigger on the outside?
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    butch22butch22 Member Posts: 2
    What lug nuts did he use?
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    zendenzenden Member Posts: 62
    HI! Because you said : Mostly while I was sitting at a red light, or when I would put it in reverse.
    The GEO is known for the crankshaft pulley to come lose. it is located on the right side, and is the main drive belt pulley for PS, AC and alternator, (there are only! 4- 10 mm bolts that hold it on! ), Sometimes the bolts brake off one at a time, or just over a period of time they come lose. This was a flaw in the engine from the factory!) This pulley is maid of heavy steel and is also the harmonic balancer for the engine. When it comes lose it will make a noise and shake; if you jack up the car and grab it with your hands and wiggle it; there is a good chance that you could see it wobble slightly, or look straight down at it from under the hood while it is running to see if it is wobbling. Also when they first start to come lose on this type of car; ( usually but not always,) over time it will make a noise by rubbing the black plastic timing cover down near that pulley. The pulley will melt a whole in that cover by rubbing it. You may see this by looking down at it.
    I hope that this helps you. Dennis
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    You guys are all wrong about everything!First of all,12"tires like 145-80R-12 are easy to find,and I have been buying them for years...not only all season 12 inch but snow tires with or without studs!Online is the trick!Not at your local tire store!Go online to the Tire Rack Store.Right now,you can get the 145-80-R12 for 39.00 apiece,and its around 30 or 40 dollars to ship all 4 tires anywhere in the USA.....and my last order I received in about a week!Mavis tire is another online co.(I'm not sure of that spelling however,but the phone # is 1-800-757-4291).Now I know that the Tire Rack has the 12"in stock,but i'm not sure about Mavis,but you can call.Yokohama are the all seasons and Cooper Weather Master are the snow tire brand.
    One other very important thing here.....
    About the 13"wheels.Forget it!!!!!! I own a 1992 Geo Metro hatchback. I've tried the so called 13"wheels with matching bolt(stud)pattern.I've tried a wheel from the Horizon,Omni and others.You would think that as long as the bolt pattern matches that there would be no problem,right?.....WRONG! This is the problem:On the Geo Metro,atleast 1992-94 and possibly other years(with the plain 2 door Geo hatchback,not necessarily the LSI or fancy models),the stock studs coming out of the rotors are of "substandard"size!They are actually significantly smaller than the hole diameter in the matching 13" wheels from other model cars!!!!So this is a safety hazard as I was told by several tire mounting professionals!!! Yes,the 13"matching bolt pattern wheel can be easily mounted on to the matching Geo's studs,BUT there is too much play between the stock 92 Geo stud and the hole in the 13"wheel.Yes you can tighten down the Geo's lugs down into the wider hole of the 13"wheel,but the Geo's lugs ALSO have a smaller outside diameter.....so the chance of the wheel coming slightly loose or the "play"in the lug verses the larger hole diameter in the 13"wheel can pose a safety threat.I seen it with my own eyes!Many junk yard inventory computers will "tell you" that the horizon wheels and other 13"wheels will fit the 1992-94 Geo Metro....and yes they will.....but trust me,this is a mistake to mount the 13"rim....go see for yourself and take a "closer"look at the hole verses the lug diameter!
    Plus,at 39 dollars apiece for 12"tires at the Tire Rack online(still available as i write this),forget the expense of the wheels PLUS the more expensive 13"tires!
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    Forget the larger lugs.You won't find them with the substandard mm inside diameter and larger outside diameter...does NOT exist!Take note to my other response about tire size and wheel change.You just bought a set of 13inch tires and wheels you can now resell.The whole setup is useless!Go to the Tire Rack and buy your 12 inch tires again.There are a few online company's,one from Canada that sells the 145-80R-12.Google search.make sure you don't buy the 12"boat tires,that won't work either.
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    also let me mention one other thing about these 13"wheels that "supposedly fit(and do not) with the 91-94 Geo Metro hatchback.Even IF you could find larger sized lug nuts that could take up all of the additional space between the outside of the lug and the larger hole diameter in the 13"wheel....forget it again!No good!Why?Simple:
    The weight of that tire and other stress forces are being overly focused on the lug,because the hole diameter is too large in any 13"wheel you put on the car,especially when you hit pot holes,dips,rough roads and more.The wheel can still move in the lug area on a microscopic,level and the substandard mm studs can then bend with alot of additional stress.Think about it....if you need to find larger sized lugs to "try"and make the 13"wheel fit,then you must realize that there is something wrong here.If the 13"wheels truly fit the Metro(91-94)then you should be able to put them right on,zip your lugs on and be on your merry way!But this unfortunately is NOT the case.Put 13"wheels on yout metro hatchback,and you could be playing with an eventual large repair bill,or your life.Do what I do and order your 12"tires online.I've never failed to have a problem except once in a while with the snow tires.But then,hardly anyone orders 12"snows.I'm one of the few that oders 12"snows with studs on all 4 tires!Why?because i live in the mountains...need I say anymore?
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    geopetegeopete Member Posts: 2
    My '94 1L Geo makes a noise which seems to come from the drivers side front wheel. At first I though it might be the CV so I pulled it out and replaced it. But that didn't solve it. Now after talking to some folks my thought is that it might be the left wheel bearing. The noise occurs when I'm driving straight or turning towards the right. When I'm turning left there's no noise. As long as I'm under 55 mph, the noise is not that bad, but when I speed up to 65 it get's pretty noisy. Is the wheel bearing pressed in and do you have to take off the whole front wheel assemply? If that's the case it looks like you have to take off the ball joints as well. This seems like a two day job taking off the front wheel assembly getting a new bearing pressed in and putting it all together again. Would appreciate any feedback/comments on this.
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    The convertible geo metros (and a few other models of the Suzuki Swift) came originally with 13 inch rims. Larger diametrer lugs are available for the larger rims. I bought mine through Advance Auto. But you will have to remove the rear brake drums and front hubs, knock out or press out the old smaller lugs, very carefully drill the holes to accept the larger lugs, press in the larger lugs and re-install the hubs and drums. I have done this with my 90 metro hatch and am using 13 inch wheels from the convertible. There were other answers to your question that indicated that if you swap to larger wheels you will have alot of problems. That is not really true as long as you use the proper size lugs and the wheels you use have the proper offset plus you don't go crazy with tires that are to large.
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    No,you are the wrong one butch 22.You should read my answer alittle more closely.First of all I did NOT say anything about convertibles,you did.I said hatchback which means "Non Convertibles".The hatchbacks from 91-94 did NOT have 13"rims,only 12 inch rims.And even if some models did,this is NOT the issue.I'm speaking primarily about "my" or most other standard Metro's that only have the 12"tires and smaller lugs.Your second big mistake is not reading my answer correctly again.You Will have problems based upon the smaller diameter lugs that DO come with the 12 inch set up on the "standard" 91-94 Geo Metro hatchback,because of the slightly larger lug hole in any of the 13"wheels that correctly match the lug pattern.The additional"play"between the hole in the 13" rim and the 12"lug may not seem like much,but the tightness of fit is what is needed for a safer mount,even if it "appears" that you can tighten down heavy on the 13"rim with the smaller lug.All of the 13 inch wheels I remember correctly that I tried out matched the Geo's lug pattern absolutely perfectly but the "bottom"of the lug either "fit"inside the 13"wheel hole or just barely touched the ouside of the 13"rim hole.If the 12"lugs become worn on the edges,you'll have even a larger safety problem.Your 3rd mistake is that I did NOT deny that that you can mount 13 inch wheels on a 12 inch set up but with all the work involved with removing the hubs and drums,drilling and more,its really not worth the effort,especially if,like most people,they cannot do the work themselves and have to go to the shop.The expense involved,well,i'm sure most people will agree,would be quite large indeed!Much cheaper,better and faster to obtain 12 inch tires through the internet as I mentioned...and yes,they are still very readably available from several USA sources and Canadian internet sources.
    Again,perhaps you "may"have found one specific 13"wheel that fits a more precise smaller lug diameter on the Standard Non LSI 91-94 Geo Metro Hatchback,but I seriously doubt that,since i have tried several.The larger hole diameter in the 13"wheel does pose a safety threat when mounted on the smaller lugs on my 92 Geo Metro standard Hatchback,even if its just a few hairs wider.I have discussed this issue with several professional mechanics not only at dealerships,but at various other shops and salvage yards.Yes,modifications can be made,but your conversion work was "unnecessary"if you can still find 12"tires as easy as pebbles in the road!Now,once 12 inch tires are no longer available,well then I personally would consider all the modifications you mentioned,but I just purchased 4 12" tires through the Internet 2 months ago at 38 dollars apiece and 45 dollars to ship all 4 tires.Thats only 197.00 total to arrive at my doorstep.If I go to the shop and have all that modification work done,including the fact that most shops will not allow you to go to a junk yard and bring them used parts to save money,well then,the cost will be outrageously high to do this.Bottom line....be smart,and purchase the 12"tires online not only for safety,but to save money and hard work.If you make a mistake and do not drill perfectly in the modifications,thats another problem as well...
    Enough said!
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    Is it beltwaymechanic or butch 22?Well,I don't care,this message and the above one applies to all!
    Also....to my above message.If you could somehow find a wider lug with a "precise"inner thread match to fit the smaller 12" studs...well then that still won't work that great because you still have the stud diameter problem "below" the lug and into the 13"rim hole itself!I doubt that you could find a unique lug anyway safe or unsafe that would do this anyway,since my sources are infinitely beyond any autostore computer which I found out makes plently of mistakes!We could talk about the "correct"stater replacement on the distributor when you need another one vs other type of cars,even beyond the Geo(but this is another issue).The computer,even at the dealer will give you an "exact" replacement part....but this is MANY TIMES FLAWED!Many dealership computers as well as Autozone and others do not have the "correct"updates from the databases that show "intermittant problems"associated with staters.These intermittant problems show up on the update bullitin boards sent to many dealerships,but their own computers are not always updated.For example,I had a 95 ford escort a while back.The stater went out of commission.The dealer put back in a 95 stater again,(thats stater,not a starter!)which was a mistake,because 3 months later,the stater went out of commission again!They should have read the update bullitin board showing problems with the 95 stater and put in a stater from 1997,which fit exacly and had no "intermittant"problems.Motto???Do not trust any parts store or dealership even if they say this will fit or will work,even a 13"wheel for example!!!!!I I also was given a thermostat once by autozone and national and advance auto parts that showed the supposed perfect replacement for my 92 Geo Metro.Well...the computer in all 3 stores was INCORRECT!!!!!My model requires a black rubberized gasket that fits around the "edge"of the thermostat,not on the bottom of the thermostat,so they were all wrong!I had to go to the dealer and spend 30 dollars for the correct thermostat!Now,getting back to the wheel problems....I had a friend 3 years ago that simply placed what appeared to be a well fitting 13" rim on his 91 Geo metro hatchback,until he hit a few potholes,did a couple of fast swings around some sharp corners in the road and his wheel began to wobble violently.He found out that there was NOTHING wrong in his suspension,he thought he broke something!No,it was the lug vs hole problem again.Now maybe if he was a nice old lady that drove around 25 MPH all the time and drove on all smooth roads,he would not have ever noticed a problem,but then we are not all old ladies driving 25 MPH are we?The day I trust slapping on a 13"rim simply based upon the fact that the "holes"line up perfectly or because some auto parts store says its "ok"is the day I may very well lose control of that tire and go under a semi crushing me to a thin piece of scrap metal.Think what you want my friend,but i have personally observed otherwise and contrary to what you have said.
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    so Butch22...Don't tell me about my mistakes,I have not made any but you have made plenty!
    1.Not finding 12"tires on the internet or even looking on the internet...(not too smart on your part!)
    2.Doing all those unnecessary conversions and all that work...Not too smart!
    3.trying to tell me about the "convertibles"having 13 inch tires when the discussion was about 91-94 hatchbacks...NOT convertibles which are still 12",not 13"!Very unsmart!
    4.believing that parts stores will give you the correct fit simply because their computer says so...triply unsmart!!!
    5.and not admitting or correcting your mistakes...quadruple unsmart!!!!!!!!!
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    geoman2geoman2 Member Posts: 7
    also,butch22,I have tried the susuki wheels on my 92 Geo metro hatchback,I believe the salvage yard originally said that the 95 13" wheels would fit.Although i'm not sure of the year anymore.Well,those wheels,...the same ones i'm sure YOU are talking about,did fit and matched up "almost"perfectly!The key was "almost!"
    Again,the holes matched to the 92 Geo's studs,but as I told you before...there was too much play between the stud and the hole in the 13" susuki wheel making it somewhat unsafe.So,i'm calling you a liar to your face!
    And this you can add to all your other mistakes!
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    My dear Geoman2. I will list the specific steps and part numbers to clarify what I was trying to explain in my earlier post. If you could read the entire thing I am sure you will see that I have considered how to completely and safely accomplish the proper swap of 13 inch geo wheels on to a geo that came standard with the 12 inch wheels. . . . The 13 inch wheels that come standard on a Geo convertible will (and do) properly and exactly fit a geo hatchback that came with the 12 inch wheels IF YOU DO THE FOLLOWING.

    Step 1 - Remove the front hubs and the rear drums.
    Step 2 - Remove the studs. Some people call wheel studs "lugs." (Press or knock them out.)
    Step 3 - Purchase the studs that fit the 13 inch wheels - There are two different lengths to fit the front and the rear. AutoZone.com lists the following parts - Front- Dorman/wheel stud part number 610-334.1 and Rear- Dorman/Wheel stud part number 610.336.1. These are the correct diameter and length to properly fit the geo convertible 13 inch wheels. They are size M12-1.25 thread.
    Step 4 - carefully drill the holes in the hubs and drums to a larger size to accept the larger wheel studs. If you don't have the correct equipment like a drill press and proper size drill bits then go to a machine shop and have the holes enlarged professionally.
    Step 5 - press the larger studs into the holes in the hubs and drums.
    Step 6 - Purchase the correct wheel nuts. (Some people call them "lug nuts.") Autozone.com lists them as Dorman/Wheel Nut part number 611.064.1 (same size front and rear.)
    Step 7 - reinstall the front hubs and rear drums.
    Step 8 - install the 13 inch geo convertible wheels on the new larger studs on the geo hatchback.

    If the person considering this swap would rather get the parts from NAPA look for part numbers 6411534, 6413158 and 6413144.

    This works. It is 100% as safe as using the production 12 inch wheels and I can assure you that it can be done. I have done this job. I have a 90 geo hatchback in my garage with the properly fitted 13 inch convertible wheels.

    Why you feel compelled to call me a liar to my face is sad and puzzling. I offer this information based on experience and the facts can be verified. I am not simply throwing out unsubstantiated opinions.
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Let's back off the personal edge on thing before they get too sharp. Thanks!
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    drewkohlsdrewkohls Member Posts: 12
    the wheel bearing is not pressed in, and you do have to take off the whole knuckle. and you do have to take off the ball joint and tie rod end, but if you're a novice mechanic and you get up early on a weekend or whatever then you should be able to get it done before dark, taking somewhat frequent breaks in between. I am, what i would call, a shade tree mechanic, I've been doing my own mechanic work for quite some time, but with no actual training, and i changed both my front wheel bearings in under 4 hours. It's a fairly simple process, but just to for warn you, you may bust the seal on your tie rod end and need another one, and the oil seal that goes on after the inner wheel bearing will likely break too. so just two simple and for the most part cheap parts that you may also need. Good luck
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    colt1911colt1911 Member Posts: 2
    Wow what a thread !!! This thread helped me a little in my research, so now I'm BACK, to give back!! Let me hit a few points first.

    /quote geoman2
    Forget the larger lugs.You won't find them with the substandard mm inside diameter and larger outside diameter...does NOT exist!

    First, the the studs ar NOT SUBSTANDARD! 10x1.25 is a standard metric size. 10mm is common bolt size, 1.25mm is metric 'fine' thread. the word 'substandard is misleading and wrong!

    Second, Larger lugs DO exist. I have been a mechanic for 25 years (school trained), and there is NO safety issue with them. I will detail below.

    BTW, I am glad you are happy with your 145/80/12's. I wasnt...

    Moving on. During the process of converting to a 13" wheel, I compiled some information to help others along. Here it is:

    OEM Info
    Wheel = 12" x 4"
    Tire = 145/80-12
    Bolt pattern = 4 x 4.5" (114.3 mm)
    Fender well clearance 597mm

    Car Year Pattern Stud Size Center Bore Offset
    METRO 89-97 4X114.3 10mmX1.25 59.6 35

    EXCEL 86-94 4X114.3 12mmX1.5 67.1 46

    New Wheel
    13" x 4.5" Steel Wheel
    Model: Hyundai Excel 86-94

    (as you can see I used Hyundai excel rims because I got them for $10 ea, and all I had to do was paint them, surely many more will fit)

    Most compatiable sizes
    (the 155's were exact replacements I bought a while back, shown for comparison purposes only, they were Douglas brand from Walmart, they dont carry them anymore BTW) (the numbers on the far left mean nothing, it was just a list)
    Size total Radius +/- clearance ea side

    OEM 145/80/R12 537mm (21.1) +0mm 30mm

    Mine 155/75/R12 537mm (21.1) +0mm 30mm

    3 185/60/R13 552mm (21.7) +15mm 22.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 46.00 Price: $184.00 for 4 - Shipping $40.90 ============= $224.90
    5 195/60/R13 564mm (22.2) +27mm 16.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 49.00 Price: $196.00 for 4 - Shipping $42.18 ============= $238.18
    8 205/60/R13 576mm (22.7) +39mm 10.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 54.00 Price: $216.00 for 4 - Shipping $46.02 ============= $262.02
    9 215/50/R13 546mm (21.5) +9mm 25.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 52.00 Price: $208.00 for 4 - Shipping $43.46 ============= $251.46

    These tires were all from tirerack. You can look around if you want... Other sizes may fit, but hitting the fenderwells is questionable, since they had to be shipped, I erred on the side of caution. BTW, I went with the 215/50/13's. They do not rub fenderwells or ANYWHERE!!

    Anyway, heres more:

    Stock Tire - 145/80R12 215/50R13
    Section Width: 5.70 in 145 mm Section Width: 8.46 in 215 mm
    Rim Diameter: 12 in 304.8 mm Rim Diameter: 13 in 330.2 mm
    Rim Width Range: 4 - 4.5 in Rim Width Range: 6 - 7.5 in
    Overall Diameter: 21.13 in 536.70 mm Overall Diameter: 21.46 in 545.08 mm
    Sidewall Height: 4.56 in 115.82 mm Sidewall Height: 4.23 in 107.44 mm
    Radius: 10.56 in 268.22 mm Radius: 10.73 in 272.54 mm
    Circumference: 66.38 in 1686.0 mm Circumference: 67.41 in 1712.2 mm
    Revs per Mile: 984.3 Revs per Mile: 969.2
    Actual Speed: 60 mph 100 km/h Speedometer1: 59.0 mph 98.4 km/h
    Speedometer Difference: 1.557% too slow Diameter Difference: 1.54%

    As you can see, the rim size is too small for the tires I selected, they work fine, but honestly, if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the 195's. I almost did, but I LOVE WIDE TIRES!! :) The rolling resistance is kind of high too, and that has hurt my gas milage, but at 57 mpg, I had some to spare ;)

    I used a javascript program on a website to calculate alot of this. I will post the link here, but I dont know how they are about links on this website. I really joined up here to make this post so hopefully other people wont have to do so much research like I did.


    (this site seems to be down sometimes, maybe my security settings, but often I had to try back later to get there)

    Anyway, on to the lugs. The brand is Gorilla Automotive, the style is acorn, and they are also a 'bulge seat' style, which means simply, they are one size larger in physical form only. The hex size is listed as 3/4 inch, which is a direct cross to 19mm (close enough ok?), the same hex size you would get if you had 12mm studs!!! No need to change studs the seat is .5mm larger than the hex drive, more than enough to cover the hole.

    Here is a link to their catalog:

    or google 'Gorilla_lock_nuts.pdf'

    The part number is 41118 (bulk package), 41117 (clamshell package) 41117B (bag package.

    This is a link to where I bought mine, I got 20 for about $23 after shipping. If your buying custom stuff that has to be shipped, DO GET EXTRAS, 20+ they were only 0.82 cents each (before shipping) I couldnt find these in retail stores around town either.


    They fit very well, a little long, but they will STILL allow wheel covers no problem. If you dont want chrome like me, you can acid bath them first, and they will be a beautiful black chrome!! ( I have yet to do this myself)

    Anyway, I can post pics if anyone wants, I have dozens of pictures already taken (point me to an online picture dump). I also have pics of the washers I made before the lugs arrived. This is NOT safe in my humble AND professional opinion, even though they sell expensive lug washers. I got 3/8 zinc flat washers, lift wheel off ground, center wheel with two opposing lugs, put washer on stud, use nut and torque wrench to make flat washer conical. Then repeat for other lugs. This is real dangerous IMO because people 'forget'. I was checking the torque on my lugs every 10-15 miles for about 5 days!!! What a pain!! Its really unsafe, and I dont recommend it unless:

    1 Its very temporary
    2 You never forget anything
    2 You check the proper torques (with a torque wrench) very often (95-100ft lbs)

    If you leave them like this, your damn wheel WILL fall of sometime you are least expecting, and maybe kill someone, so use the PROPER LUGS!! I only include this information for completeness.

    It's been a great experience even for a seasoned mechanic, but I hope I have saved someone a little research. Please be safe, and change the studs, or buy the oversized nuts.


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    lilbulllilbull Member Posts: 1
    The person that recommended this site: Offset Lugs for the shoulder or acorn seated lugs is spot on.
    Please be safe and enjoy a few new shiney parts by investing in the proper upgrade lugs.

    You'll enjoy the better ride and handling w/ the 13's over stock 12's, but remember your speedo is going to be off by 5 to 7mph so do 5mph under what it reads.
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    cammyspradlingcammyspradling Member Posts: 1
    Hello Don't know if it will help you or not but that size wheel comes on 1992 Geo Metro. Found a Place tht can order than 45 a piece brand new. took me 2 months to find this place. Good luck
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    mansredmansred Member Posts: 1
    My metro just started to make a noise.I pulled the driver-side rear wheel and spun.I could hear the noise.I pulled cap off and bearings look okbut i guess they're not.Are they pressed in or bolted?
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    candoitcandoit Member Posts: 1
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    colt1911colt1911 Member Posts: 2
    Did you read this whole thread? No offense, but how much simpler can it be than a set of rims an lug nuts??

    your way:
    1. Find a Conversion or late model geo at the bone yard that hasnt been stripped already (tough)
    2. buy conversion, or late model spindles ($$$)
    3. buy conversion, or late model calipers ($$$)
    4. buy conversion, or late model rims ($$$)
    5. buy conversion, or late model tires ($$$)
    6. Dont really expect to get all that for $100
    7. Do alot of work changing spindels, rotors, calipers, rims, and tires
    8. buy 8 studs for the rear
    9. pray you have a decent drill press to precision drill the rotors for oversized studs
    10. Install all this and do it your self
    10. have tires mounted

    My way:

    1. goto: www.teamswift.net (or google) search the forum there. There is a LIST that tells you every wheel that fits the metro for nearly ANY GEO. My '94 is 105mm 4 lug I think. But you can search out any conversion you want online and make you own list. This is easier than drilling rotors!!

    2. Go buy any set of 13 in rims that you can find off of multiple cars for multiple years. I bought 89-94 hyundai rims for $10 ea! Painted them they look great.

    3. All the 13" rims you find will be to accomodate a 19mm stud the originals are for 17mm, so the lugs are smaller, sooooooo, go buy some online!! They are around 75 cents each, and get a few extra. look back in this thread, and you will find the link I posted. The BRAND is GORILLA. The STYLE is BULGE SEAT. the SEAT is over sized, and you need this because the hole is larger on the 13 inch rims, and your old lug nuts will slip into the hole itsself.

    4. buy a set of tires and have them mounted.

    5. install the tires and new lugs.

    Just to recap, you can do all those mods with brakes, spindles, calipers, and drilling rotors, OR you can do it the EASY way:

    1. Get a set of rims, tires to fit, and ovesized lugs

    2.Have the tires mounted, and put them on with the new lugs


    I do not mean to be harsh. What seems easy to us is not to others. I have been working cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper (30+ yrs), have a degree in it, and dont mean to be rude to you. But you have to look at the fact that buying a set of rims availible from many cars, tires and lugs to fit is pretty easy for most people. What I consider easy is replcing the V-hold chip and channel in your TV, or rebuilding a transmission or engine, or engineering an idea from scratch and fabricating parts. Most other people do not have the knowledge, tools, or time to do such things. The fact that I 'discovered' there was a lug nut that would omit the 'need' for a conversion, and made it a very strong point to come back AFTER I finished the project so that the information could help other, really solved the problem for many people. Some have even posted so in this thread. I think its commendible that you took the time to post your ideas here, but I do not agree your way is easier.
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