2009 Subaru Forester

kurtamaxxxguy

When revisiting my Lithia Subaru dealer's web site (Oregon City, OR), I noticed their "3 day assurance" warranty offered while I was buying my Subie is no longer mentioned.

Lithia has been having profit issues lately; my guess is they dropped the warranty to save costs.
Its presence was one reason I bought my XL from them, though.

ateixeira

Dealers just aren't making money on new cars. Their only hope is trades sold as used cars, plus service.

We can't blame them. The margins we leave them are razor-thin.

volkov

Plus, these hot vehicles are in unusually short supply, so they have nothing to sell.

ateixeira

Can't disagree. I waited for weeks and gave up and ordered one.

Still, you'd think Subaru dealers could make a better margin on these given demand.

Hey, we can't complain about getting a good price, though.

rsholland

Erin does a followup write-up on the new diesel. As in her earlier report, she feels it's not ready for the U.S. for various reasons.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=131970?tid=edm- unds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

Bob

tkay2

Yep...left it open and it rained all night & day..$ 4700,00

volkov

I find it rather interesting that on the one hand Subie is pushing environmental responsibility with the near zero emissions PZEV which get the same mileage as regular models versus on the other hand producing a high mileage diesel with poor emissions. The two seem to represent the polar opposites of the spectrum philosophically, so it makes one more cynical when reading the ad copy. I know that in the end it's all about business and the market you are playing in. For that reason, I'm sure that a diesel Forester in NA will have little impact on their bottom line when/if it arrives unless gas prices climb to Euro levels, and furthermore, the number of us who would be paying close attention to all these issues are irrelevant in magnitude from a sales percentage.

volkov

OMG...I've done that with the WRX, but it's a much smaller roof, and for a much shorter period given we have a garage. Will insurance cover it?

kurtamaxxxguy

Have anyone here tried or know folks using Yokohama X.drive tires? They got a glowing review at wheels.ca for being useable all year around but working well on ice.

Nokian WTG2's are not available in my area (warehouses have nothing, no one knows when they will show up), so I am considering the Yokos as an alternative to help keep the XT on the road when the ice hits.

Unfortunately I have no place to store an alternate set of tires and I keep hearing Geolanders are bad on ice. We get a lot of ice in Portland OR and it would be nice to make the XT better able to handle it.

sgloon

Not good to hear the Geolanders are bad on ice. Where did you hear that from Kurt?
We didn't used to get much ice, but they are using so much mag-chloride that we definitely get ice now...

Do you know how they are supposed to be on snow?

(I thought these were a new tire as they are hard to get anywhere...as I found out as I'm buying a 5th full size spare.)

board_jay

You should do your homework. CR clean diesels like the new 2009 VW Jetta have near the same Nox smog emissions as comparable gas engines. All diesels in the past 10 years put out LESS green house gas emissions (like C02) than a comparable gas vehicle. Compared to a hybrid, they also are pretty close. For example go to fueleconomy.gov and check out the green house gas emissions for a 2006 Jetta TDI and a Toyota Prius and you'll see they are about the same when you take into account that the Jetta is a bigger car. Also, the real-world mpg for the Jetta vs. the Prius is about the same. A diesel Forester would be a welcome addition as it would put fuel economy in the low-mid 30's and increase the towing rating to 3500lbs. This with a simpler engine that doesn't have the issue of what to do with the battery after 6 years.

bigfrank3

Here in our part of MA we get a lot more ice than snow, including more than our share of black ice. When we have had snow in the 8" to 10" range we have had no problems at all. The AWD coupled with the ground clearance makes for a great combination.

Both my wife and I have been driving for more than 40 years and I can tell you that the conditions around here have been worse than ever for the last several years. This is due to them using less salt for environmental reasons, as well as tight budgets in all local communities have them spending less on materials and overtime. Since 2001 we have had 5 Foresters between us and I can tell you these are the most winter competent vehicles we have ever driven .

Between us we have had only 1 white-knuckle experience with any of our Foresters, and that was last year when we were out in a storm were we shouldn't have been. We were traveling in conditions where no more than 10 MPH was prudent. There was ice all over the place, about 6" of heavy wet snow on the ground, and it was snowing about 1" per hour. We approached a heavily traveled intersection that was slightly downhill and we needed to stop and turn. There was no way we could do either so we went right across the road, and we were doing less than 5 MPH at the time. Thankfully there were no other cars in the area. The hidden ice was the problem, it was a frictionless surface.

We were in my wife's Forester and the Yoko's were about 80% worn, but I don't think anything but chains or studs would have helped in that case.

crashdavisfm

Here's a pic of 2 of my Australian Shepherds, Gunner and Keeper, enjoying their new ride:

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

I put two 30" x 20" metal crates in the cargo space (with the back seats down) secured by ratcheting tie downs. I now have a much more economic ride for our weekly agility lessons -- beats my extended cargo van for gas mileage hands down.

aj

kurtamaxxxguy

Thanks for info, sgloon. While driving the Malibu Maxx that preceeded my XT up here in Portland, I ran into patches of ice in the freeway tunnels even when it was above freezing outside. Irrigation systems also had sprayed water over some roads I used and, once again, coated them with ice. The Maxx was none too happy even at low speeds (as Consumers Union predicted, the Tripletreads on the Maxx were useless on ice).

My guess, unless anyone contradicts, is that '09s' Geolanders being new and the siping fresh, they'll be passable for the first year unless a lot of glare ice is encountered.
What I'm not sure of is whether any of these winter tires will be actually available come mid winter. Some tire stores here tell me Nokian routinely sells out around November.

crv16

2009 Forester X manual transmission

Did my first towing with the Forester this past weekend, and overall, the Forester has exceeded my expectations. Pulled a ~1,400 lb 5x10 enclosed cargo trailer. Previously pulled this with a Honda Pilot, which did a lot of bucking and lurching with its soft suspension.

Forester pulled it in a far more composed manner. Only gripe is that reverse needs to be geared lower. Backing up with clutch out has you going a little faster than I'd like.

volkov

I did do my homework. You might want to go back and see you have made a few mistakes. Diesels can be really clean, but the vehicle Subaru is producing for Europe is not. It is clearly stated in the article that the Subie is not emissions compliant for the US, therefore not as clean. In fact, most diesels aren't that's why there are so few in the US. I won't argue the CO2 point, but that only addresses greenhouse gases. I didn't say diesels are bad, I said dirty diesels aren't good. The Subie is the latter unless they can come up with a working filter system - again, go back and read the article.
The statement that new diesels produce the same smog and NOx is misleading and more commonly wrong. The new 2009 Jetta is supposed to be clean but the government smog numbers aren't up yet. The 2006 Jetta diesel you mention gets a 1out of ten for smog. (That's the worst score BTW) Other supposed clean diesels like MB's E series bluetec still only score 3/10 for smog. The not so clean versions - R, M, and GL series all score 1 out of ten.
By comparison the 2008 Forester gets a 6 in the base and jumps to a 9.5 for the PZEV. In other words, the Jetta produces .6g/mile NOx to the Foresters .07 or .02. That's 9 to 30 times more per mile - a big difference.

caliberchic

Beautiful Aussie's!! I have a black tri female..I LOVE her!! I've just recently put a AKC Rally NA title on her and almost have her advanced title!

ateixeira

I think we should compare the regular diesel to the regular gas engine, non-PZEV. How does that engine score?

The clean diesel would compare to the PZEV gas engine. That type of customer would choose between those.

ateixeira

Very neat. Perfect example of why a boxy cargo area is best.

EPA measure cargo volume but does not account for the SHAPE, and things tend to come in boxes.

According to CR, the Forester holds more cubic volume than a lot of bigger competitors. It beats the Mitsubishi Outlander even when the Forester has that intrusive moonroof, for instance.

ateixeira

So I took my Miata to the body shop (4th time I was hit, yikes) and test drove a new Miata. Right next door was a VW dealer so I checked out the Tiguan.

I was ... well, disappointed. For some reason I expected to be impressed by the interior, and while I looked at a base model with manual cloth seats, it didn't impress me at all, not a bit.

I know VW is known for some fine interiors, but the arm rests on the doors are hard, with not enough padding, and the fabric is durable but anything but soft to the touch. To make matters worse, the center console is thinly padded and covered in a cheap vinyl material that doesn't even try to pretend it's leather.

The cloth itself didn't impress me, either, though I'm not crazy about the cloth Subaru uses in the Forester, either.

In the back seat, you get the same hard outer elbow rests, and when you fold down the rear arm rests it reveals ... hard plastic? Are they serious? This is a place where you are supposed to rest your elbows? :confuse:

The headliner was just about the only part of the interior that looked better than the Forester. Below that, the pillars are hard plastics and the texture does not match the rest of the car.

The middle seat in the 2nd row is not comfy, though the Forester is only slightly better. Both have plenty of leg room in both rows, and 4 adults can get comfy, minues the armrests in the VW front and back.

The Forester really kills the Tiguan in the cargo area. The Tiguan's cargo floor is actually not too bad, but you have less than a foot of space from the back of the head rests to the hatch glass. Tall items just won't fit unless you fold those seats.

Generally, plastics and materials are just not up to usual VW standards. They are par for the class, no more no less. Yet premium pricing means it should be better, IMHO.

The dash has lots of buttons but mostly sins for simply being boring to look at. There's just no Audi flair in it.

Perhaps the higher level models are better, but I sort of doubt they're all that different.

I guess I felt that a 5 door GTI would make more sense. You don't really give up much space, and they're nicer all around. I don't feel that way about the Impreza vs. Forester at all, to me the Forester easily justifies its higher price compared to its little brother.

volkov

That's what I meant by base. Reg 2.5L gas Forester scores 6/10.
I really wish we had the PZEV in an option other than the Leg/OB. I would happily pay a few hundred extra for personal reasons to get the PZEV. It's just that the car it's coming in isn't my choice. In another one of those "whaaaaaa?" moments, literature for the PZEV prior to its arrival here in Canada indicated VDC on both models. Then the Legacy arrived without it and in fact they are the only Legacies not to get TC or VDC. Felt a little 'bait and switch' to me. SOC says they want to guage customer demand before bringing in more PZEV products, but how can they realistically assess demand for an option if it's slapped on a mechanically inferior product?? At least the OB gets it, but costs $7k more than the Legacy which had been Dra's preference.
As for me, I'm still a slave to the shipping manifests as I wait to see if my dealer can get a Blue Forester Limited. We can't factory order so we wait.

crashdavisfm

Beautiful Aussie's!! I have a black tri female..I LOVE her!! I've just recently put a AKC Rally NA title on her and almost have her advanced title!

Rally is pretty neat. I may do that with my oldest Aussie, Crash, who is now 11 1/2 (not pictured). He's still doing agility (he loves it and it keeps him active) but I need to retire him soon and Rally might keep him interested. I used to do alot flyball with Crash and Keeper (the black tri on the right in the pic) but now we just do agility -- alittle easier on the older bodies (Keeper is 7 yo). Gunner, the blue merle, is just starting his agility career, he's 2 yo.

They are great dogs but alot of work -- they are way too smart and very driven (to make this car-related )

Anyway, sorry for the off-topic dog discourse, but it's nice to know there are fellow Aussie lovers out there!

aj

ateixeira

Well, I don't feel too sorry for you because you guys have had many nice things we never got - like standard heated seats on the WRX, and the Forester Dynastar model.

Ski rack and brand new skis for something like $300. :shades:

kurtamaxxxguy

VW has this thing called the Euro that keeps tripping them up. Given their huge labor costs, only way to keep things affordable (aside from loosing money) is to save on parts. Sometimes that has clobbered their reliability (new Beetle). But perhaps with Tiguan they had to chinz on lower models' interior. Only time will tell if Tiguan's reliable.

The '09 Forester XT has slightly better interior than X (there's weave pattern imbedded in headliner, and armrests/door inserts are microfiber).

ateixeira

Our X Limited is a mix of those - we do not get the nice headliner from the XT, but we do get the microfiber arm rests.

I guess I noticed the stark contrast - our Forester has comfortable arm rests in every position for all 4 passengers. They put the Tiguan's to shame.

crashdavisfm

The '09 Forester XT has slightly better interior than X (there's weave pattern imbedded in headliner, and armrests/door inserts are microfiber).

Do you actually like that microfiber armrest covering? For some reason it creeps me out. Of course, I didn't actually notice it until my husband-equivalent did, but now it bugs me.

BTW, thanks BigFrank for the instructions on re-programming the map lights. I got that done last week, so now I can leave the hatch open without killing my battery.

aj

volkov

Well, I don't feel too sorry for you because you guys have had many nice things we never got - like standard heated seats on the WRX,...

Do you know what a car seat feels like at 30 below?? I'm not making any apologies.

veritasusa

I owned a 2005 Forester for a year. It was a pretty good car, except that the seats were rock-hard, the gold fabric interior was impossible to keep clean under any sort of hard use, and one had to go to the LL Bean edition to get self-leveling rear suspension and a hard surfaced load area.. I went back to a Chrysler minivan.

I took some interest when the 2009 Forester was announced, even though SOA appears to be ramming that useless (to me) moon roof down my throat if I want any of the useful options, but decided that it wouldn't be worth the almost 40-mile (one way) trip to my nearest dealer to look at one until SOA offered a 5-speed automatic. I recently came back to this forum and read about the European diesel model. That caused me to visit the Subaru UK site and what I saw there REALLY made my blood boil!

EVERY Forester model there - from the lowest to the highest - has the self-leveling rear suspension and telescoping steering wheel as standard equipment! Unless and until SOA gets its occidental head out of its corporate backside and offers a sensibly optioned Forester here in the USA, I can quite easily live without their wares. :mad:

rsholland

You must have sat in a different Tiguan than I sat in. Actually I sat in two, and liked them both. I didn't, however, "study" them closely like you did; but my overall first impression was quite positive.

I do agree that it is pricey, and towing is slightly less than the Forester (2200 I think). I liked the larger tires on the Tiguan, however.

Bob

p0926

Next time tell us how you really feel

ateixeira

Yes, I do like that microfiber materials, but more importantly it's well padded underneath, so my elbows have a nice place to rest.

volkov: brrr.

It's only now getting cold enough for us to really appreciate the seat heaters. Wifey loves 'em. :shades:

Bob: did you sample a higher level model? Mine was base. It has cloth seats with manual adjustments.

Our Forester is loaded but it was still about $4 grand lower in sticker price.

ateixeira

one had to go to the LL Bean edition to get self-leveling rear suspension

Name one competitor in the compact crossover class that offers this feature.

(crickets chirping)

volkov

The other big bust on the Tiguan is that the promised Diesel has no fixed release in NA. Before anyone jumps on me, I am quite positive about the new clean diesel they have developped for the Jetta. I believe that they thought it was underpowered for the Tig, but I'd bet most potential diesel customers wouldn't mind given its efficiency. That plus the fact that in Europe it comes with an even smaller less powerful engine.

p0926

It's only now getting cold enough for us to really appreciate the seat heaters.

Hey Juice, when did you move to Alaska? Last I checked, DC morning lows were only in the 50s! Even us wusses living in the desert don't use our seat heaters until it gets a lot colder than that :P

-Frank

rsholland

Base FWD model for me too. The universal complaint about the Tiguan is price.

All road tests that I've read speak highly of the vehicle, until the MSRP comes up.

Bob

ateixeira

I'm from Brazil, 50 degrees is cold to me! LOL

ateixeira

That's just it.

You're paying a Tribeca price for a Forester competitor. So it should be a lot nicer, but it just isn't.

Mostly, though, it's smaller than we would have wanted. Just get a GTI 5 door and save thousands of dollars.

leo2633

Speaking of armrests, does the Forester still have those handy little storage compartments in all four door armrests? I have them on my '01 and find them quite useful.

Len

kurtamaxxxguy

Nothing for storage in the doors save for the near-floor slots below the armrests, which were apparently enlarged a bit for '09.

leo2633

Thanks, Kurt. My '01 has the door pockets, too, but there are also rubber-lined storage compartments, with hinged covers, in the armrests of all four doors. I guess Subaru did away with them. They sure are handy for small item storage.

Len

ateixeira

My 98 had those 4 compartments, too, but they were very small, basically 2 cassette tapes would fill it up (if you're too young to know what those are, I'm not explaining it!).

They are gone on the 09. So is the coin holder that used to be on the lower left dash, under the steering wheel.

That's the one I miss. There isn't really a really good place to store change for parking meters.

I still prefer the 09 overall. That 98 had rock-hard elbow rests. I actually cut up and glued foam from a mouse pad to soften up the arm rests, and they blocked that compartment anyway! :sick:

pharmd718

Now that is something the 09 forester could really use. I live in NY and go through quarters for the meters very quickly.

p0926

I forgot all about those storage cubbies in the arm rests (good for business cards and the like). They were eliminated in the 03 re-design but the lower door pockets gained expandable netting so they were much more functional (the coin holder was also retained). For 09 the door pockets got wider and have a place now to hold a bottle but the expandable netting is gone and I don't think the pockets are as long as before.

-Frank

robm2

I kind of wish the pedals on the 2009 F-XT (premium) were a little more slanted, and a little less vertical. I have long legs, (36" inseam), and I find I have to pull my foot towards my shin a bit too much for comfort, on long drives.

I've messed with the seat in every conceivable way. Only other option is to try and mess with the pedals, themselves, and see if it's possible to change the angle at which they sit.

Anyone else notice this?

leo2633

Cassettes? Those are those new-fangled things, right? I'm sticking with my eight-tracks, juice! (Yeah, I'm old enough to have had an 8 track player in my car back in the '70s!)

Len

pharmd718

I got my 09 forester towed in Manhattan . I wanted to know if its possible to cause any damage to the car if not towed correctly.

I picked it up an hour after it got towed and seems to be driving just the same.

Thanks

sgloon

For reasons I won't explain here , I had to replace a wheel and tire on my Forester. So, I got an alignment to go with it...just to be on the safe side. I had to go back 2 more times before the dealer got it right. [And by the way, the dealer is the only place you can get an alignment as Subaru hasn't given the specs to the tire stores, etc.] It was vibrating & pulling right when I first got it back (neither of which it did prior, even with the donut on.) They put more air in the new tire and balanced it. That got rid of the vibrating and some of the pull, but not all. So I brought it back again. They hadn't given me the alignment sheet when I got it done the first time, so I made sure to get a copy (of the first alignment on my second visit).

In the midst, I wondered if they had actually done the alignment. [There were no "before" numbers on the first sheet, just "actual".] So, I got a new alignment, and it feels way better now.

Here's the crux. The dealer was blaming me for having to do the 2nd alignment, said I must have done something...gone over RR tracks, potholes, going up in elevation, whatever. NOT! [I have no idea how going up in elevation would cause the alignment to go off. Just makes no sense to me. I think he was grabbing at straws.]

In reviewing the two alignment sheets that I was given by the dealer, I find the that specifications between the two sheets are different. For example:
Camber: -1.2 to 0.3 on first alignment
Camber: -0.8 to 0.8 on second alignment

This can't be right, even if they are using a different machine to align it.

So, I study the sheet a bit more...and realize that the first sheet says 06 ->07 Forester. The second sheet says Forester:2009

So, while the dealer is blaming me for causing them to do a second alignment, they actually aligned my car to the wrong specs the first time.

Think I should go back and make them aware of their error??? Or should I just start using the other dealer in my area??? Is this a common mistake???

sgloon

pharmd718:

The owners manual has warnings all over it on how specifically to tow an AWD vehicle. If I recall properly, as long as all 4 wheels are on the ground while it is being towed you are OK. The problem arises when they lift up either the front or rear wheels and leave the other end on the ground. Of course if the tow truck is the kind where they put it up on the bed of the truck, that is gravy!

I was told by someone here recently that the reputable tow companies are all well aware of how to tow Subarus as they are all AWD. I would think the tow company would be responsible if they don't get it right.

sgloon

Rob, I don't know if they can do it on the '09... But, when I bought my previous Subaru, many years ago, I had a friend who would be driving the car who was also a 36" inseam, by coincidence. I talked to the dealer, and they remounted the whole seat back further. They did a good job, as he could be comfortable with his long legs and I was able to reach the pedals comfortably with my much shorter legs. I wasn't worried about anyone shorter than me driving the car, but it still had room to move even further forward than I would want it.

So, you might talk to your dealer. At the time, they did that for me at no charge. I asked for it when I bought the car. And, as the dealer did it, it was covered under warranty.

Good luck!

pharmd718

I have been looking for something like this for my forester because in NY they tend to bump into you while parking. Thought others might be interested as well.

http://www.wooddashexperts.com/customer/home.php?cat=19538