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Published: August 22, 2008
"THE cooling economy brought uncertainty to a week of vintage car sales around Monterey, Calif., just as it had raised questions in January at major Arizona auctions. But prices held steady again.
'A much-watched car, the 1958 Chrysler Diablo concept, did not sell despite a $1.2 million bid at the RM auction. But Gooding’s $7.92 million sale of a 1937 Bugatti Type 37SC Atalante was a North American auction record.'
'Even the lower end of the market showed vitality as excellent examples of relatively inexpensive cars brought at least market-correct prices in most cases, and sometimes more.'
'Here are results of sales previewed in this section on Aug. 10. Prices include the buyer’s premium, an additional commission to the auction house.
1967 Porsche 912 Targa, SOLD FOR: $35,200 at RM
WHAT IT MEANS: Although well under the estimate, this was a strong price. Two years ago, this car would probably have struggled to reach $20,000.
1969 Alfa Romeo GT Veloce, SOLD FOR: $44,000 at Gooding
WHAT IT MEANS: A lovely car with extensive documentation that quite possibly set a world record for this desirable model.
1953 Jaguar XK120M, SOLD FOR: $74,750 at Bonhams & Butterfields
WHAT IT MEANS: This car sold for well over the high estimate ($60,000) to a shrewd dealer. A sure sign that these pretty Jaguar coupes are undervalued.
1951 FORD WOODY WAGON, SOLD FOR: $29,000 at Kruse
WHAT IT MEANS: It just goes to show that even in the supercharged atmosphere of Monterey, bargains can be found.
1957 Ford Thunderbird, SOLD FOR: $48,400 at Russo & Steele
WHAT IT MEANS: This very pretty T-Bird sold near the high end of the estimate. It was the right car at the right auction.' "
Problem with "articles" on Monterey is that they don't tell you that a car selling for $35,000 might very well have had $75,000 spent to restore it. That type of revelation kind of spoils the hype, doesn't it? :P
ALSO keep in mind those prices INCLUDE all the buyers' and sellers' commissions, so that fattens it up 10-15% right there. And if it's an overseas buyer, they are getting 25% discount on currency exchange. So you see how distorted the auction prices can be.
I was wondering why anyone would spend 911 money on a 912... a collector with a 'gotta have one of each mentality'. :confuse:
I'd say the car was well sold but not well bought.
914 -- "Porsche handling at VW repair prices"
928 -- "Corvette performance at Rolls Royce repair prices"
911 -- "just right"
912 Targa -- oh, a "soft window targa". Yeah, right, having a plastic rear window instead of glass is certainly worth the additional $15,000--$20,000 I'm sure.
"I have one of the rare plastic window types" (bragging rights?)
I've seen a few at shows. I kinda scratch my head----"and the point of that is?"
In any case, as nice as 911s are, I can't imagine I am going to like this '86 911 five times as much as my '86 944 (I am exactly five times as much). I am trying to figure out how to keep the 944 too, but I am almost sure I will lose that battle with the wife.
You'd better be careful, you are treading on dangerous ground here.
A 911 is a man's car (in terms of effort required, although I'm sure there are women who like to work behind the wheel, too).
A Boxster is a "crossover"
I did drive a supercharged Boxster S once. That was okay, really nice. But it had steroids and tattoos.
By the way, holding her purse would be an improvement. While shopping on Saturday, I was carrying my daughter's pink purse with Elmo's head sticking out of the top.
Of course there are some exceptions even in top tier. The Austin Healeys are flattening out or dropping and the hysteria over rare muscle cars is over.
But if you have a real quality piece in your garage that is rare and desirable besides---no worries so far.
But "projects", cars with "needs", incorrect cars, hybrid engine swappers, new glass hotrods----sad city.
And if things stay slow, as expected, it'll really be messy come, say, January.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the problem is that "top tier" represents a very small percentage of all the classics, collector and special interest cars on the market. If this is correct, then the great majority of these cars have suffered significant market value losses, and the bottom has probably not been reached yet.
I see a couple of sliver linings in this situation. First, it's a great market for buyers of below top tier cars. Second, iron that should have been scrapped, in terms of its functionality, will be removed from the classifieds.
The top and bottom end of the markets are usually safe. If one has a Bugatti or some <5K curiosity, I suspect they will be ok.
Of course, I'm not including any "old car" as part of the collector car market. If it's just some old iron then the value isn't affected because it never had value to begin with. And old Tercel or Renault Alliance or Dodge Omni or Chevy Lumina or Chrysler Lebaron are still pretty much worthless even if they are 20 years old.
Financially, my portfolio is worth about 2/3 of what it was this time last year. I'm sure there are many people who have done even worse. I'm sure this has to be putting a major hurting on the market.
Yes, agreed. My definition of collector and special interest cars, not to mention classic cars, excludes common, ordinary old cars, as does yours.
Yeah, looking at it that way does help. My portfolio is pretty much for retirement as well, and that should be far enough off for it to bounce back and then some. Anything else that I've had to pay for lately, like the heat pump and new ductwork in my house, and the repairs to my '67 Catalina, basically came from play money.
I'll know the times are really bad when I have to start raiding my portfolio, or selling off my cars!
Seriously though, it's not a good time to sell an old car unless the supply/demand ratio on what's in your garage is pretty extreme.
Case in point: At Monterey this summer, somebody sold a 1956 Porsche 356A coupe for $61,000? A home run, right?
Wrong. He had just spent $70,000 restoring it.
Had it been an old '56 Alfa that Carroll Shelby raced as a young man, well, different story. There's only one of those.
Just keep repeating to yourself Lemko, "Devil you know, versus Devil you don't." That pretty white Fleetwood may have been seductive to look at, but could still prove more troublesome than your '88 Park Ave, which may be a little rough around the edges, but still serving you well.
BUT.....BUT....what IS happening I think is that many of the top tier cars are being made available for sale. Collectors I think are getting the notion of "selling at the top of the market". They are more and more cars of the highest quality and rarity on the block than ever.
So, when everyone who wants a top tier car is satisfied, then yes we might see a decline in prices---but so far the supply/demand ratio is still skewed toward the seller.
But any car with a ??? over it, you can forget it. No interest right now.
Maybe one reason the market has remained firm is that many buyers of these cars are wealthy enough to pay cash, without borrowing, and can afford to sit on their investments. Another reason could be that the people who buy these cars currently see them as a safer investment than equities or real estate.
There seems to be a lot of interest in "original cars" right now--I mean REALLY original, not those eBay ads "all original, new paint interior, engine.".
I think you could safely say that the muscle car market has definitely flattened unless you own "1 of 6" of something rare.
Gullwings are still hot, Porsche 356s ablaze, vintage Ferraris stratospheric, Jaguar E-Types solid, early Porsche 911s to 1973 very good, even Alfa GTVs up to 1750s doing very well. Of course we are talking top tier cars here--nut and bolt restos or clean originals with certification. And of course anything owned by Steve McQueen is a money-printing machine. One-off show cars seem good, race cars with significant older history are good (not regional SCCA, sorry, or your 80s cars).
Austin Healeys flat, MG TDs flat, TR6s so-so, clones are dead, project cars are dead, basket cases probably dead, 4-door American iron moribund, most 60s/70s American cars that are not well-optioned or have smaller engines are very flat.
It's probably a really good time to buy a "toy" that's not a big investment for you.
People aren't going to be buying $5000 Gremlins and $12000 MK Vs anymore.