I have a 10 year old who rides in the back of my Toyota Yaris every day. Would like a more "fun" economy car, but can't go back to the back seat of economy cars of the 70's and 80's which it appears the Fiesta back seat may be like. For a modern car only 1.4 inches shorter than an old design Focus, losing 4 to 6 inches of rear legroom is pretty sad. 31.2 inches clearly is not adequate for adults but may be even a stretch for anything beyond preschool.
As someone pointed out, why have 4 doors with no room in the backseat. I assume the Mazda2 will likely have identical rear legroom. May wait to see what the Focus III looks like in comparison with the Fit/Civic.
....targeting families with the new Fiesta. Their main target audience is young single hipsters in their 20's and 30's. Not families. The supposed lack of legroom won't even be the slightest thought in the minds of 90% of Fiesta buyers.
All Camry's up to '96 model year & the '96 Civic all share the same 103" wheelbase, but only the Camry's got rear stretch-out leg room for 6-footers while sitting on a large comfy chair.
Both the '96 Civic sedan & the '86 Camry also share the exterior dimension w/ the current Fiesta sedan.
Again, a fun-to-drive little car w/ limited rear leg room will only remind you of the expensive Mini Cooper :P Nice try, Ford, even w/o using the costly Control Blades...
I haul a lot of stuff in my Protege5 all the time. Having access to the back of the car through the back side doors is, for me, functionally important.
Those age groups are the target, but many times the results are much different. Scion has at times looked like more of a middle age car. Most of the Fits in my area are driven by 40 plus with kids or grandkids. Civics seem to be much more in demand for the 20's.
Wouldn't a 20's hipster be much more inclined to go for a Scion tC/Civic Coupe than a Fiesta? Maybe there aren't many here with long enough memories, but I remember the first Fiesta go round. Most buyers even then with much more limited space went to an older group.
If the Fiesta turns out to only be moderately successful in the 18-29 age group without kids only, it most likely will be a bust in sales.
Their main target audience is young single hipsters in their 20's and 30's. Not families.
That was the actual demographic for the VW Jetta, wasn't it? Yet VW felt they needed to add rear leg room to the car, they went up 2 inches in 2005 and that from a starting point that exceeded the Fiesta by a couple inches already. Now maybe Ford figures that those who want the rear leg room will just go into the Focus, so they did not worry about it.
Sometimes those single hipsters do have more than one other person in their car. OTOH, in the case of my non-hipster kid who is in nevertheless in his 20s, I think he feels his ZX3 is an advantage as, when there is a group, the others never want him to drive (though in this case it is just due to being a 2-door, not due to legroom shortage.
....share the same 103" wheelbase, but only the Camry's got rear stretch-out leg room for 6-footers while sitting on a large comfy chair.
-----------------------------------
The back seat of the '96 Camry didn't have "rear stretch-out leg room for 6 footers" unless you had a 5' 2" person in front of you with their seat pulled all the way forward.
My sister had a '96 Camry and when her husband (6' 3") was driving, I (6' 1') couldn't sit behind him without my knees folded 130 degrees!
I was referring to the actual US demographics of the buyers, not the target. But in any case, the Golf IV had the same leg room and therefore the same increase when they went to the Golf V (US - Rabbit).
But perhaps this is not a good analogy, anyway, as VWs primary market is Europe.
"Maybe there aren't many here with long enough memories, but I remember the first Fiesta go round. Most buyers even then with much more limited space went to an older group."
Back then I was too young to drive, but I happened to be reading my very first car magazine -- July 1978 CAR&DRIVER!
I remembered vividly in that issue -- the Fiesta 1.6 was the 0-60mph pocket-rocket champ in that giant group test, follow by the Civic 1.5 then the Rabbit 1.5. In fact, that group was so huge that they had to finish the rest of the group in the following issue w/ Subaru FWD, etc.
The overall winner of the group test was the Rabbit. Then I pursuaded my parents to get one!
I eventually did have a chance to drive a very old Fiesta stick...
I am 5'11" fairly slim built & have owned both the Civic VI ('96-'00) & the Camry III ('92-'96), plus my folks also owned the Camry I ('83-'86).
Even our compact-exterior '83 Camry had more than enough space for me to stretch my legs in both front & back.
I do place my feet in the front foot well resting on the sloping floor, rather than how some people would move the seat aft in order to rest their feet on the leveled portion of the floor. No, I don't have to move Camry's front seats this far back like in your picture.
The rear cushion is so high & supportive that I couldn't even stretch my legs far enough to push against the lower edge of the front seat. While our Chevy Caprice barge can't do this, b/c its rear seat cushion sinks down so badly that I had to stretch my feet all the way forward plugging pretty hard underneath the bottom of the front seat.
My point is that, despite that both the Camry & the Civic got the same wheelbase, the difference b/t them when I try to stretch out my legs is like night & day.
I'm sure many other cars sharing Fiesta's wheelbase can do way better in rear leg room. How about the '91 Escort?
For its exterior dimensions & wheelbase, the new Mazda3 sedan is also pretty sad in stretch-out rear leg room .
scion does not have a good rep with that young age group. civic is more on target. not too many under 23's buy new cars. they need to get their first real job under their belt.
Hybrids really do not do much for you on the highway, and especially on the freeway, what they do is get about the same mpg on the city test as on the highway. I get much closer to the highway number in my normal commute and other driving, so I am guessing a hybrid would do little for me. Those who have to drive in congested, stop and go traffic would be the ones that might benefit from hybridization.
I've been looking up the dimensions of the current euro focus, and I see what you meant a while back about how much they have increased, especially in width. The euro sedan (saloon ) at 72 inches wide is 4 inches wider than the US Focus.
I'm assuming the new worldwide version will retain that sort of width. So unless they also lengthen the 20111 Focus, maybe the size distinction between the two cars will be mostly in the width (as well as rear seat leg room).
Actually, the Focus II is at least 5" wider than the Focus I. Our Focus after '07 is really an American-design Focus that doesn't even exist around the world.
The high-chair Focus may have pretty much the same rear knee room as the Contour, but the low-chair Contour has way less stretch-out rear leg room.
Length/wheelbase & stretch-out leg room (not knee room) are almost unrelated in many cases. The '92 Lexus LS400 got longer length/wheelbase than the '92 Camry, but the high-chair Camry got more stretch-out rear leg room & a larger turning radius, as if the leg room is only related to the turning radius. LOL
Look at the first "Focus III" (the '10 Mazda3 sedan). For the length/wheelbase, its stretch-out rear leg room is a joke. That's not a good news for the upcoming Focus III sedan, is it?
When I took a look at the Focus II (overseas) & it's brothers -- '09 Mazda3 & Volvo S40/V50. The Volvo has less rear leg room despite sharing the same platform! Volvo did that on purpose, b/c the larger S60 sedan got even less stretch-out leg room!
Again, for the same 103" wheelbase, just hop in the compact-exterior '83-'86 Camry LE sedan to see the difference in rear stretch-out leg room.
just got the latest issue of autoweek. They have an article about these 2 cars (the 2 is supposed to arrive late summer, a few months behind the Fiesta).
BIg difference seems to be the engine. Ford has a 119hp 1.6l, and Mazda is going with a 102hp 1.5l.
Man, 102HP! That might be the lowest on the market now?
If the Mazda3 is a preview of the new Focus, it will be approaching Contour length, as the 3 is nearly 181 inches, just about 3 inches less than the contour.
I went to Ford vehicles.com/Fiesta and tried to build a SES. I think it started at $17995.when I finished I really don't know what I had. I don't want 17" wheels and does heated seats come with leather. Also, I couldn't find a sunroof and I was way over 19k for a 5 spd? I think this car is way over priced. :confuse:
I went to Ford vehicles.com/Fiesta and tried to build a SES. I think it started at $17995.when I finished I really don't know what I had. I don't want 17" wheels and does heated seats come with leather. Also, I couldn't find a sunroof and I was way over 19k for a 5 spd? I think this car is way over priced. :confuse:
Were you trying to build a hatch or a sedan? The sedan is significantly cheaper than the hatch. But, even if you were trying to build a hatch, you can build a 5-speed for under $16K. Considering the content on even the base model hatch, it's a bargain.
If you built it with 17" alloys that accounts for about $2000. I did not see anything indicating leather leather or sunroof was being offered at this time.
17" alloys are going to murder the ride quality, (and don't add anything worthwhile - just cost), and as far as I can tell there's no sunroof option here in the UK. Sunroofs are out of favour as an on-cost option - seen as being a bit "1980's".............some form of aircon being much the preferred option.
I was building a SES hatchback.Also, I didn't want 17" wheels and now I know that a sunroof isn't an option. I probably should go with base 5spd,but I want heated seats. However, if the Fiesta is built to give the Honda Fit a run for it's money. The Fiesta looks like a fun ride compared to the Fit. I guess you have to take what they give you. Why ask someone to build a car?IF,you can't get the options you want? :confuse:
I've never wanted a hole in my roof, but here in the US, I think it is still something that most see as desirable. A/C is just about a standard feature in the US. I think most dealers do not even order anything without it???
HB Fiesta 5 spd $15,120 MSRP Pkg 203A $ 755.00 Winter pkg $195.00 Euro rear spoiler $295.00 Destination Charge $675.00 Net Price $17040.00 Well, that included sync and sound, but I'm not pre ordering. I want a hole in the roof. I wonder if VW Golf is the answer.( I know the gas Mileage) Thanks all for your imput.
b/c you'll get more head room, & I like to raise the seat to enjoy the high chair like in a Mercedes S-class or SUV (but I hate SUVs' excessive height & high center-of-gravity).
Because I tend to raise the driver seat too high for my left elbow to rest on the door armrest. I hate old Mazda3's low door armrest & love S40/V50's high one. Despite they all share the same C-1 platform w/ the Focus II.
Many moonroofs interrupt the body structure accross the B-pillar section.
The smooth-riding Golf VI imported from Germany sounds like a delicious alternative in this price range, especially when Consumer Reports rated the Rabbit V (excluding the GTI V, which has turbo) as the only reliable VW. But not sure if the Golf VI 4-door comes in stick.
The '10 Jetta wagon only got MkVI's new nose & dashboard. Only the Golf also got the new seats & door panels (doors remain the same as MkV). The Jetta V might not be updated to MkVI, as the truely redesigned MkVII is coming soon.
I prefer MkVI's diagonal inside driver door handle, which both the MkI Focus, the new Mazda3 & the Fiesta also got.
W/ fat-torque 2.5 5-cyl, we're talking Volvo category here. Even the rear-seat A/C vent is available on the Golf!
But even the MkVI Golf GTI's steering isn't that great: http://magazine.windingroad.com/issue/52/ "The steering is too light at low speeds for our tastes and too dead at or around the centered position, but the overall accuracy makes up for this to a certain extent."
In the same magazine: http://www.windingroad.com/articles/reviews/driven-2010-mazdaspeed3/ "Company engineers were quick to point out in the Speed3 technical briefing that they had intentionally left an element of torque steer unchecked in the car, as they were hoping to maintain a level road feel through the steering wheel that they consider elemental to any Mazda. To their credit, the purely electrical assist to the steering rack does allow a more communicative experience than we’d have expected, but the torque steer issue is no joke"
Well, expectation from "purely electrical assist" isn't high to begin with. Ditto the Golf VI & the new Fiesta. My guess is that the Fiesta should feel better. As I only drove the Fiesta & the Rabbit V. & I was quite appalled by the lack of steering feel in the Rabbit V, when comparing side-by-side w/ my Focus ST, which has pure hydraulic steering.
Would you buy a car with out trying it? Alot of reviews on here saying that the new car they just bought is a dream come true,the handling is great,comfortable seats,nice cup holders and the list goes on. I'd like to see some reviews from people that have owned the car for a a year and have put their car to the test. I like the Mini but,I'm scared to buy one on account of their clutch and tranny problems. I was never scared to buy 3 Integra's and a RSX Type S. I had no problems at all. The Mini I tried was tight,quick and solid. A real fun ride, but, realiability kept me away. Is the new Fiesta dumb downed for the American market?I wish Ford still built the Foxcus HB. You could get a winter pkg. and a moonroof and it had room for stuff from Home Depot.
Click on the linky thing and scroll down to the Long Term Tests section. Might be useful as Mini and Fiesta are both there. You might find some other interesting stuff on the site, as well, although the magazine is not the most highly regarded in the UK.
Last month, I was sitting in the future Focus III sedan w/ a '10 Mazda3 sedan around for comparison.
Since the new Focus III will be revealed next week in an U.S. autoshow, I will talk about it now. Neither the exterior nor the interior seem related to the new Mazda3. In fact, it looks very much like the Ford Mondeo James Bond drove in "Casino Royale". & that's exactly what it is -- a sedan based on the EUCD platform (from the current Mondeo & Volvo S80), which is really an enlarged Focus II C-1 platform, which is also used on the Mazda3 & Volvo S40/V50.
The enlarged "Focus II platform" can mean longer suspension travel? By adopting an off-the-shelf existing platform, this is a quick-fix & cost-effective way the Focus badly needs in order to compete w/ the comfy long-spring VW's, which recently "stole" the Control Blade suspension from Focus & now w/ low-cost manufacturing techniques to undercut Ford's price while retaining expensive interior feel?
The leg room isn't whole lot roomier than the rather-cramped new Mazda3, so the wheelbase must have been shortened from the S80.
This is like the Jaguar X-Type is the shortened version of the old Mondeo, ditto the relationship b/t the Audi A4 & the VW Passat back in '98.
Of course, it's only a prototype -- the way the body-panel creases clutterly overlapped in the door area, its lower front grill & the interior all looked unfinished.
The dashboard center stack looks similar to Fiesta's except the vents are shaped similarly to the ones from the new Caddilac CTS/Chevy Cruze.
Since Ford just sold the Volvo division to a Chinese car company Geely, the Focus III will be the only EUCD-platform sedan sold in this country in the near future available from FordMoCo, as the current "James Bond" Mondeo does not meet U.S. safety std.
Unless of course you don't need a sedan, "trucks" such as the Land Rover Freelander LR2 also uses the EUCD platform.
But to be honest, my 5'11" frame didn't like the size/comfort of the driver seat in this Focus III when I sat on it last month. This one-size-fits-all global model can't have long seat cushion the way the "Swedish Focus" -- the S40/V50 -- gets to execute, along w/ higher door armrests.
I just collected a pair of Focus II Sport front sport seats from overseas & will mount them in my '07 2.3 ST Focus I sedan in California. They even got factory "Focus S" decals stitches on the seat back. Unlike Recaro seats, the seat-bottom-cushion sponge is very thick & the whole seat is shaped like as if it's "plagiarized" from Volvo, which can no longer help Ford w/ premium seats, etc. after the recent China take over.
Ford seats have always been comfortable for me, they are among the few that typically has a long enough seat cushion. The new Fusion I had sat in at the auto show nearly a year ago was great in that respect.
I'll be sad if Ford is going the stubby seat cushion route, ala most Toyota and GM vehicles I have sat in. I want to sit, not perch.
as the current "James Bond" Mondeo does not meet U.S. safety std.
If that is the current European Mondeo I am amazed. Do you happen to know how it fails US Safety Standards ? Certainly meets all the EU ones right up to 5-Star Euro NCap.
In Europe, the Mondeo is a very highly rated car that only suffers from "badge snobbery", i.e. it's not an Audi/BMW/Merc product. In reality it is more exclusive that a BMW 3-series as it sells less. So, want to stand out from the crowd ? Buy a Mondeo.
Which "Micky Mouse" U.S. safety standard? I don't know.
I worry about Focus's damaged reputation from the early years when the engines weren't developed by the Japanese (Mazda). How can the U.S. public believe in Focus as a premium small car? My '07 Focus 2.3 ST costed less than my '05 Focus 2.3 ST. Both cars are nearly identical, but only the '05 has a superbly slick-shifting manual transmission, damn it! The U.S. public forced the price down along w/ the quality. Ford can build the best car in the world, just not in the U.S.
The safety differences have to do with specific U.S. crash tests (like side impact) that the Euro models don't have to be engineered for. Not to mention the powertrain differences due to vastly different emissions regulations. These are expensive to go back and add to an existing vehicle but not if you engineer them in from the beginning like the new Focus.
Reputation hasn't hurt the new Taurus. I think people are looking at Ford favorably for the first time in over a decade and as long as the new vehicles deliver the appearance, features, performance and quality that consumers want I don't think they'll have any problem selling them.
Ford finally realized they can't make money trying to outcheap the competition. And by premium we're still talking Honda/Toyota premium, not Acura/Lexus.
There are too many 2-story-tall SUV's w/ throat-cutting bumper height, literally, all over here in the land of hicks. Side-crash tests will have to simulate this. & even the Volvo S40/V50 did only so so in this area.
European cars like the Jetta and old Saabs are little cars w/ high chairs, but their lack of reliability have scared the U.S. consumers, who usually can't get a ride to the repair shop, to drive the low-chair reliable Japanese cars designed for short legs. That's why they ended up getting the high-center-of-gravity SUV's in order to have high chairs w/o the un-cool image of minivan's.
It's also stupid of the American car makers to offer low chairs in the Cavalier & even the front passenger seat in the Chevy Caprice, which its catalytic converter raised the height of the right half of the front floor.
For decades, I haven't been paying much attention to dorky American-designed Ford vehicles such as the Americanized "Mazda6" -- the Fusion/Milan/MKZ/Zephyr.
All the exuberance about the Fiesta is noteworthy, but why? What makes everyone think that this won't just be another Escort? It shares less than half of the parts with its European counterpart, it will be built in Mexico, and god knows where the powertrain components are sourced. Great concept and all, but don't you think Ford will just dumb this thing down for what they perceive as American tastes?
I truly hope Ford has a winner with this car, but I can't imagine it will work out that way.
Why not? The new Ford is not the old Ford. They are no longer trying to outcheap the competition. They are no longer selling vehicles that lose money just to keep production plants open. They are no longer building vehicles that people don't want just to throw huge amounts of cash on the hood or dump to rental fleets.
You've seen the interior and exterior already - does any of it look cheap? The Fusion is built in Mexico - does any of it look cheap?
Have you seen the new Focus? The interior looks like it came from a car costing at least $30K.
Do you have specific examples where Ford has done this recently or are you just going off past history?
I really do hope you're right. Because from what I'm seeing in photos, I would buy one.
As far as recent examples, I have not seen the interior of a Focus for a couple of years, but I will say that the exterior refreshes have looked cheap and almost silly. Two years ago the interiors of the new Focus's were super-cheap looking. So apparently they've really improved the interiors in the last couple of years.
I have looked at the new Fusions and can't say that I've ever been impressed with their interiors.
Who is the safety expert here? Which is safer; American or European? Someone said on another site that when they beef up the bumpers on American cars the net result is that the occupants are less safe. Apparently transferring more of the impact to the interior. Is that true? And what about side impacts? It sounds like from what someone mentioned above, the reinforced doors on American cars make the passengers safer?
Do you actually know that they do not have the reinforced doors in Europe? That would be surprising to me.
Europe does a side impact test. The side impact tests do differ and, I believe the IIHS one is the toughest, the US government one is the easiest and the European one is in between.
There are two areas of difference one is the height of the simulated vehicle that hits the side of the car being tested and the other is the weight. The height used in the IIHS test simulates an SUV, the US Gov't test simulates a car, and Europe is in between (again, IIRC). I don't recall how much the weight of the simulated vehicle varies.
There may also be differences in the profile of the front end of the simulated vehicle that impacts the test vehicle in the various testing protocols.
Comments
As someone pointed out, why have 4 doors with no room in the backseat. I assume the Mazda2 will likely have identical rear legroom. May wait to see what the Focus III looks like in comparison with the Fit/Civic.
Both the '96 Civic sedan & the '86 Camry also share the exterior dimension w/ the current Fiesta sedan.
Again, a fun-to-drive little car w/ limited rear leg room will only remind you of the expensive Mini Cooper :P Nice try, Ford, even w/o using the costly Control Blades...
Wouldn't a 20's hipster be much more inclined to go for a Scion tC/Civic Coupe than a Fiesta? Maybe there aren't many here with long enough memories, but I remember the first Fiesta go round. Most buyers even then with much more limited space went to an older group.
If the Fiesta turns out to only be moderately successful in the 18-29 age group without kids only, it most likely will be a bust in sales.
That was the actual demographic for the VW Jetta, wasn't it? Yet VW felt they needed to add rear leg room to the car, they went up 2 inches in 2005 and that from a starting point that exceeded the Fiesta by a couple inches already. Now maybe Ford figures that those who want the rear leg room will just go into the Focus, so they did not worry about it.
Sometimes those single hipsters do have more than one other person in their car. OTOH, in the case of my non-hipster kid who is in nevertheless in his 20s, I think he feels his ZX3 is an advantage as, when there is a group, the others never want him to drive
Only time will tell.
That was the actual demographic for the VW Jetta, wasn't it?"
I would seriously doubt that. I think the Golf was aimed at that group. The Jetta was aimed at Families.
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The back seat of the '96 Camry didn't have "rear stretch-out leg room for 6 footers" unless you had a 5' 2" person in front of you with their seat pulled all the way forward.
My sister had a '96 Camry and when her husband (6' 3") was driving, I (6' 1') couldn't sit behind him without my knees folded 130 degrees!
But perhaps this is not a good analogy, anyway, as VWs primary market is Europe.
Back then I was too young to drive, but I happened to be reading my very first car magazine -- July 1978 CAR&DRIVER!
I remembered vividly in that issue -- the Fiesta 1.6 was the 0-60mph pocket-rocket champ in that giant group test, follow by the Civic 1.5 then the Rabbit 1.5. In fact, that group was so huge that they had to finish the rest of the group in the following issue w/ Subaru FWD, etc.
The overall winner of the group test was the Rabbit. Then I pursuaded my parents to get one!
I eventually did have a chance to drive a very old Fiesta stick...
Even our compact-exterior '83 Camry had more than enough space for me to stretch my legs in both front & back.
I do place my feet in the front foot well resting on the sloping floor, rather than how some people would move the seat aft in order to rest their feet on the leveled portion of the floor. No, I don't have to move Camry's front seats this far back like in your picture.
The rear cushion is so high & supportive that I couldn't even stretch my legs far enough to push against the lower edge of the front seat. While our Chevy Caprice barge can't do this, b/c its rear seat cushion sinks down so badly that I had to stretch my feet all the way forward plugging pretty hard underneath the bottom of the front seat.
My point is that, despite that both the Camry & the Civic got the same wheelbase, the difference b/t them when I try to stretch out my legs is like night & day.
I'm sure many other cars sharing Fiesta's wheelbase can do way better in rear leg room. How about the '91 Escort?
For its exterior dimensions & wheelbase, the new Mazda3 sedan is also pretty sad in stretch-out rear leg room .
civic is more on target.
not too many under 23's buy new cars.
they need to get their first real job under their belt.
when i priced out various models, i didn't see the availability of a moonroof, but i did see heated cloth seats. i would want both those options.
I'm assuming the new worldwide version will retain that sort of width. So unless they also lengthen the 20111 Focus, maybe the size distinction between the two cars will be mostly in the width (as well as rear seat leg room).
The high-chair Focus may have pretty much the same rear knee room as the Contour, but the low-chair Contour has way less stretch-out rear leg room.
Length/wheelbase & stretch-out leg room (not knee room) are almost unrelated in many cases. The '92 Lexus LS400 got longer length/wheelbase than the '92 Camry, but the high-chair Camry got more stretch-out rear leg room & a larger turning radius, as if the leg room is only related to the turning radius. LOL
Look at the first "Focus III" (the '10 Mazda3 sedan). For the length/wheelbase, its stretch-out rear leg room is a joke. That's not a good news for the upcoming Focus III sedan, is it?
When I took a look at the Focus II (overseas) & it's brothers -- '09 Mazda3 & Volvo S40/V50. The Volvo has less rear leg room despite sharing the same platform! Volvo did that on purpose, b/c the larger S60 sedan got even less stretch-out leg room!
Again, for the same 103" wheelbase, just hop in the compact-exterior '83-'86 Camry LE sedan to see the difference in rear stretch-out leg room.
BIg difference seems to be the engine. Ford has a 119hp 1.6l, and Mazda is going with a 102hp 1.5l.
Man, 102HP! That might be the lowest on the market now?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If the Mazda3 is a preview of the new Focus, it will be approaching Contour length, as the 3 is nearly 181 inches, just about 3 inches less than the contour.
Also, I couldn't find a sunroof and I was way over 19k for a 5 spd?
I think this car is way over priced. :confuse:
Also, I couldn't find a sunroof and I was way over 19k for a 5 spd?
I think this car is way over priced. :confuse:
However, if the Fiesta is built to give the Honda Fit a run for it's money. The Fiesta looks like a fun ride compared to the Fit.
I guess you have to take what they give you. Why ask someone to build a car?IF,you can't get the options you want? :confuse:
Pkg 203A $ 755.00
Winter pkg $195.00
Euro rear spoiler $295.00
Destination Charge $675.00
Net Price $17040.00
Well, that included sync and sound, but I'm not pre ordering. I want a hole in the roof. I wonder if VW Golf is the answer.( I know the gas Mileage) Thanks all for your imput.
Because I tend to raise the driver seat too high for my left elbow to rest on the door armrest. I hate old Mazda3's low door armrest & love S40/V50's high one. Despite they all share the same C-1 platform w/ the Focus II.
Many moonroofs interrupt the body structure accross the B-pillar section.
The '10 Jetta wagon only got MkVI's new nose & dashboard. Only the Golf also got the new seats & door panels (doors remain the same as MkV). The Jetta V might not be updated to MkVI, as the truely redesigned MkVII is coming soon.
I prefer MkVI's diagonal inside driver door handle, which both the MkI Focus, the new Mazda3 & the Fiesta also got.
W/ fat-torque 2.5 5-cyl, we're talking Volvo category here. Even the rear-seat A/C vent is available on the Golf!
But 5-cyl is also half-way nose heavy as 6-cyl.
See post #102:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1858ec/101#MSG101
The MkVI has improved steering feel over the MkV & also leap frogged the new Mazdaspeed3, which its new steering (now pure electric) "substitutes effort for feel"(CAR&DRIVER).
But even the MkVI Golf GTI's steering isn't that great:
http://magazine.windingroad.com/issue/52/
"The steering is too light at low speeds for our tastes and too dead at or around the centered position, but the overall accuracy makes up for this to a certain extent."
In the same magazine:
http://www.windingroad.com/articles/reviews/driven-2010-mazdaspeed3/
"Company engineers were quick to point out in the Speed3 technical briefing that they had intentionally left an element of torque steer unchecked in the car, as they were hoping to maintain a level road feel through the steering wheel that they consider elemental to any Mazda. To their credit, the purely electrical assist to the steering rack does allow a more communicative experience than we’d have expected, but the torque steer issue is no joke"
Well, expectation from "purely electrical assist" isn't high to begin with. Ditto the Golf VI & the new Fiesta. My guess is that the Fiesta should feel better. As I only drove the Fiesta & the Rabbit V. & I was quite appalled by the lack of steering feel in the Rabbit V, when comparing side-by-side w/ my Focus ST, which has pure hydraulic steering.
I'd like to see some reviews from people that have owned the car for a a year and have put their car to the test.
I like the Mini but,I'm scared to buy one on account of their clutch and tranny problems. I was never scared to buy 3 Integra's and a RSX Type S. I had no problems at all. The Mini I tried was tight,quick and solid. A real fun ride, but, realiability kept me away.
Is the new Fiesta dumb downed for the American market?I wish Ford still built the Foxcus HB. You could get a winter pkg. and a moonroof and it had room for stuff from Home Depot.
Click on the linky thing and scroll down to the Long Term Tests section. Might be useful as Mini and Fiesta are both there. You might find some other interesting stuff on the site, as well, although the magazine is not the most highly regarded in the UK.
Last month, I was sitting in the future Focus III sedan w/ a '10 Mazda3 sedan around for comparison.
Since the new Focus III will be revealed next week in an U.S. autoshow, I will talk about it now. Neither the exterior nor the interior seem related to the new Mazda3. In fact, it looks very much like the Ford Mondeo James Bond drove in "Casino Royale". & that's exactly what it is -- a sedan based on the EUCD platform (from the current Mondeo & Volvo S80), which is really an enlarged Focus II C-1 platform, which is also used on the Mazda3 & Volvo S40/V50.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/246853/next_focus_steals_the_s- - - - how.html?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=13175373d3a30b0aa330c8ea6a3df587
(Note: These drawings don't look too much like the real thing I saw.)
The enlarged "Focus II platform" can mean longer suspension travel? By adopting an off-the-shelf existing platform, this is a quick-fix & cost-effective way the Focus badly needs in order to compete w/ the comfy long-spring VW's, which recently "stole" the Control Blade suspension from Focus & now w/ low-cost manufacturing techniques to undercut Ford's price while retaining expensive interior feel?
The leg room isn't whole lot roomier than the rather-cramped new Mazda3, so the wheelbase must have been shortened from the S80.
This is like the Jaguar X-Type is the shortened version of the old Mondeo, ditto the relationship b/t the Audi A4 & the VW Passat back in '98.
Of course, it's only a prototype -- the way the body-panel creases clutterly overlapped in the door area, its lower front grill & the interior all looked unfinished.
The dashboard center stack looks similar to Fiesta's except the vents are shaped similarly to the ones from the new Caddilac CTS/Chevy Cruze.
Since Ford just sold the Volvo division to a Chinese car company Geely, the Focus III will be the only EUCD-platform sedan sold in this country in the near future available from FordMoCo, as the current "James Bond" Mondeo does not meet U.S. safety std.
Unless of course you don't need a sedan, "trucks" such as the Land Rover Freelander LR2 also uses the EUCD platform.
Click here & see post #95
I just collected a pair of Focus II Sport front sport seats from overseas & will mount them in my '07 2.3 ST Focus I sedan in California. They even got factory "Focus S" decals stitches on the seat back. Unlike Recaro seats, the seat-bottom-cushion sponge is very thick & the whole seat is shaped like as if it's "plagiarized" from Volvo, which can no longer help Ford w/ premium seats, etc. after the recent China take over.
I'll be sad if Ford is going the stubby seat cushion route, ala most Toyota and GM vehicles I have sat in. I want to sit, not perch.
If that is the current European Mondeo I am amazed. Do you happen to know how it fails US Safety Standards ? Certainly meets all the EU ones right up to 5-Star Euro NCap.
In Europe, the Mondeo is a very highly rated car that only suffers from "badge snobbery", i.e. it's not an Audi/BMW/Merc product. In reality it is more exclusive that a BMW 3-series as it sells less. So, want to stand out from the crowd ? Buy a Mondeo.
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/ford/fusion/r115120/comments/
See post "23rd May 2009, 18:39"
Which "Micky Mouse" U.S. safety standard? I don't know.
I worry about Focus's damaged reputation from the early years when the engines weren't developed by the Japanese (Mazda). How can the U.S. public believe in Focus as a premium small car? My '07 Focus 2.3 ST costed less than my '05 Focus 2.3 ST. Both cars are nearly identical, but only the '05 has a superbly slick-shifting manual transmission, damn it! The U.S. public forced the price down along w/ the quality. Ford can build the best car in the world, just not in the U.S.
Reputation hasn't hurt the new Taurus. I think people are looking at Ford favorably for the first time in over a decade and as long as the new vehicles deliver the appearance, features, performance and quality that consumers want I don't think they'll have any problem selling them.
Ford finally realized they can't make money trying to outcheap the competition. And by premium we're still talking Honda/Toyota premium, not Acura/Lexus.
European cars like the Jetta and old Saabs are little cars w/ high chairs, but their lack of reliability have scared the U.S. consumers, who usually can't get a ride to the repair shop, to drive the low-chair reliable Japanese cars designed for short legs. That's why they ended up getting the high-center-of-gravity SUV's in order to have high chairs w/o the un-cool image of minivan's.
It's also stupid of the American car makers to offer low chairs in the Cavalier & even the front passenger seat in the Chevy Caprice, which its catalytic converter raised the height of the right half of the front floor.
I like the MkI Focus b/c it's European design. The '05-07 Focus 2.3 ST sedan even has the nose from the Mondeo ST220 -- See how fun-to-drive is it.
The front passenger seat of this MkI Focus 2.3 ST happened to be sized for kids, & my 5'3" sister likes it.
I truly hope Ford has a winner with this car, but I can't imagine it will work out that way.
You've seen the interior and exterior already - does any of it look cheap? The Fusion is built in Mexico - does any of it look cheap?
Have you seen the new Focus? The interior looks like it came from a car costing at least $30K.
Do you have specific examples where Ford has done this recently or are you just going off past history?
As far as recent examples, I have not seen the interior of a Focus for a couple of years, but I will say that the exterior refreshes have looked cheap and almost silly. Two years ago the interiors of the new Focus's were super-cheap looking. So apparently they've really improved the interiors in the last couple of years.
I have looked at the new Fusions and can't say that I've ever been impressed with their interiors.
Europe does a side impact test. The side impact tests do differ and, I believe the IIHS one is the toughest, the US government one is the easiest and the European one is in between.
There are two areas of difference one is the height of the simulated vehicle that hits the side of the car being tested and the other is the weight. The height used in the IIHS test simulates an SUV, the US Gov't test simulates a car, and Europe is in between (again, IIRC). I don't recall how much the weight of the simulated vehicle varies.
There may also be differences in the profile of the front end of the simulated vehicle that impacts the test vehicle in the various testing protocols.