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BMW X5 Diesel Reliability



  • zoey4zoey4 Posts: 5
  • zoey4zoey4 Posts: 5
    MSRP $49,650 You save
    off MSRP
    Invoice $45,175
    Price Adjustment $0 above invoice

    Your Cardmember Price $45,175

    Color Exterior: Aspen White Pearl
    Interior: Parchment
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    Just wanted to weigh in a bit - but really more wanted to understand the comparison.
    You went with the ML320 over the X5 based on this alone?
    No offense…

    I have driven both. And performance wise the X5D is a clear winner. Comfort wise the ML320 CDI is the winner. The back seats of the ML are far more comfortable than the X5. The reason I would buy the used ML320 CDI is to get away from the Urea injection system. The X5 has a slight advantage in looks. I am not fond of either one. I like the looks of the Touareg/Cayenne better. The Touareg V6 TDI has a much higher tow rating than the X5 or ML. The Touareg also has a larger payload. Add to that I have dealt with the VW dealer and like them. The 7 passenger is a joke in the X5 so it really does not count for anything. The X3 is a mini SUV compared to the others I am looking at. San Diego Diesel is less than Regular and far less than Premium needed for the gas guzzlers. I have a gas guzzler SUV now that I will keep if I do not buy a diesel SUV.

    Life is a compromise.
  • palmharborpalmharbor Posts: 26
    Two weeks ago I traded my 2006 Mercedes Benz ML500 for a 2009 BMW X5 diesel with the Premium Package, the Sport Package, Third Row Seats, heated front seats, and Satellite radio. After 500 miles I am getting just over 20 mpg around town, but haven't had it out on the road yet.

    I have started a journal about the good, the bad, and the ugly of this vehicle, and am comparing features with my ML500.

    So far, more good than bad, but the iDrive is certainly hard to learn.
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    When you bought/leased the 2009 X5 Diesel, were you aware of the $1,800 tax credit? That certainly will help off-set the fuel costs.

    For comparison purposes, one of my previous X5's was a 4.8i V-8. Around town, that vehicle got about 16 mpg in pure city driving. Combined highway/city driving mpg was about 19 mpg. So 20 mpg driving around town is a significant improvement over the V-8.
  • Does anyone have any concerns/bad events with the diesels in cold weather? I ask this because I am interested in them but will be moving up to Green bay in November. Thanks
  • My family have had diesels up in Syracuse for years. None of the post-Y2K diesels really had any trouble with them starting or running due to cold weather.

    When I test-drove a 335d it was in single-digit weather. Ran like a champ.

    By comparison, my Subaru with its turbo petrol engine was running like garbage that day.

    I've owned both turbo gas/diesel and have found the diesels actually to be less finicky due to weather (or at least less noticable). Sure their peak torque will be down due to weather sometimes, but its still more torque than you can shake a stick at, so whatever performance loss is imperceptible, IMO.

    The old International and Cummins (pre-1990) were hard to start without ether injection. That was the real down-side. Haven't had any problems in the last decade.
  • Every so often, and not when I am doing anything in particular, I will hear four loud beeps, but the vehicle runs fine and there are no warning lights. Any ideas?
  • Is it possible that there is no way to lock either the glove compartment or the center console in a 2009 BMW X5? I can't find an obvious lock, and the owners manual is silent. :(
  • An update - After several emails with my salesman, we discovered that the hour reminder was set in the iDrive window where time can be changed. :)
  • if it is the same as my new 2010, then you are correct. there is a lockable compartment in the rear. you can lock stuff in there and then give the valet the remote without the key.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    Which case the Urea tank is the least of your worries given it goes 11000 miles before a fill up - and its like your window washer fluid you can top it off at any time. Then there is the simple aspect of the car giving you a warning light long before it runs dry - and even then it will start X number of times on a dry tank before shutting down totally.

    Now regarding getting stranded - ever try to locate a run flat tire after you shred one?
    Good friend shredded a 3series run flat last year in of all places San Francisco. Her car was put out of commission for 4 days because they could not locate a tire for the car.

    When it comes to any BMW you'll want to pack along a true spare tire if you plan on taking any road trips. When it comes to the MB CDI SUV's same deal you'll want to pack a full size spare given they too are running run flats.

    By the way in India they sell the MB ML CDI with 17inch rims proper SUV tires and they have a standard spare tire mounted on a factory rack on the back of the truck. Seems only in the US we are sold 50-60-70K SUV vehicles with improper tires.

    The MB GL 320 CDI is at the top of my list as a replacement for my 1993 landcruiser. Granted the GL does not have low range 4wd I don't need that. Though what I will be doing when I pick one up is replacing the CRAP tires and 18 inch wheels with proper 16-or 17inch wheels and SUV tires. I will then have a proper tire carrier fabricated for the back so I can tote a proper spare tire.

    I too take my SUV places where AAA Towing and run flat tires are not going to be found.

    I run BFG T/A KO's on the Landcruiser by far the most amazing SUV/truck tire you could ever put on a truck. Great performance on road - they are built for the job and they last! Vs the soft squishy scaled up car tires that MB and BMW sell their SUV's with that wear out in 20,000 miles and are only good on quality paved roads.
  • texasestexases Posts: 8,975
    Re the MB GL320 CDI - just be aware of the AdBlue cost, according to Consumer Reports:
    "The total bill just for adding AdBlue? A stunning $316.99. We were down to 18% full on the additive at 16,566 miles. It took 7.5 gallons to fill the tank, costing an eye-opening $241.50 for the fluid alone. The labor to add the fluid plus tax accounted for the rest. None of this was covered by the warranty."
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    Do some research
    MB stealer ships will charge you $500 if you'll pay that. Truck stops are now starting to carry the amonia / water mix for around $10 a gallon - VW dealer ships sell the same stuff for around $13 a gallon

    That comes out to be around .0084 cents a mile for Adblue

    Right now my Landcruiser fuel cost runs around 27cents a mile the MB CDI even with a very generous 1cent a mile added for Adblue runs around 15cents a mile for fuel costs.

    Run the real numbers get the real facts before you post crap like that.

    By the way do you pay $100 to have your washer fluid topped off for your window wipers? Why would you pay $100 or more service fee to have the adblue tank topped off? Again a case where a vehicle owner really doesn't take the time to learn what is really required and takes what they are told at face value.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    Another MB CDI service charge which people are shocked about but have no idea what is actually being done.

    The 20,000 mile adblue tank rinse. When you run the tank with water/amonia mix and its not kept topped off it will get some evaporation and build up in it. The tech simply takes a garden hose and rinses out the tank removing the evaporated build up out of the tank then refills it. There is absolutely nothing toxic in the adblue tank in fact in many cases the stuff they put in your window wiper wash is way - way more toxic than the adblue. Hence again anyone could take a few minutes out of their day with the garden hose and rinse out the adblue tank and replenish it with 7.5 gallons of adblue bought at a local auto supplier for anywhere between $10 and $15 a gallon. VS paying the MB dealership $300+ plus for a 15 minute job using about $80 worth of materials.
  • texasestexases Posts: 8,975
    Whoa, back up the truck, Chuck. "crap like that"? I would imagine most MB diesel owners still under warranty will NOT be dropping by Joe-Bob's Truck Stop for their AdBlue substitute. They will be going to their dealer, where they will pay outrageous amounts for it. What got into you?
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    You truly have no idea what adblue is do you?

    As long as you have receipts showing you bought the amonia/water mix designed for diesel emissions controls your warranty is not impacted. If how ever your mixing your own brew and manage to screw something up yes your MB dealer and warranty is going to be a hard sell to fix any emissions issues you may have created.

    The system is quite simple and the adblue is a very simple product. MB is not the only one using the concept and it will continue to get implemented by other auto makers as diesel fuel economy is needed to meet CARB standards.

    Your MB dealer will not void your warranty if your stopped at a truck stop on a road trip and find that you need to top of your adblue tank with non MB branded amonia/water mix emissions control liquid. :-)

    Nor will they void your warranty if you put walmart window wash mix in your window wiper fluid bottle.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    If you use improper engine oil that does not meet the required specs detailed in the owners manual. Hence your engine has a major failure and you show them that you've been changing the oil your self with oil that does not meet the diesel engine specs for required oil.

    Same goes for the transmission

    Easy solution you buy the right fluid keep the records and you do your own oilchange or the local Mecedes diesel guy down the street with his own shop. Again your warranty is not impacted. Same goes for any vehicle as long as you can show that all required services have been performed with the proper materials your warranty can not be faulted by a dealer because you did not pay them to do the service.
  • texasestexases Posts: 8,975
    I know what it is, and I also know the vast majority of MB owners will use the dealer. Of course they could do it cheaper, but they won't.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    When a MB owner posts on a forum ticked off about the charges they are being charged for regarding Adblue or the 20,000 mile service or people who have not researched it at all and are posting BS like Adblue is expensive costs $300+ to refill so the vehicle is not worth the savings etc - I'm going to jump all over them for being a complete moron because they are being taken to the cleaners sucked clean of cash for something that is no different than filling their window washer bottle.

    MB makes massive profit off those who fail to do even the most basic research to understand what adblue is and how it works. Shoot I don't change my own breaks - but I've done it once to know its a 30 minute job for a good tech and the material cost is nothing yet people are more than willing to write a check for $300-$600- $1000 to have undamaged yet properly worn break parts serviced.

    Every time I take my cars in to a dealer I spend 10 minutes talking to the service rep and generally get a 30% decrease in parts and labor costs simply by calling them out on what they are truly doing.

    Its your money spend it as you like. I like to keep my money even if I'm driving a landcruiser or MB.
  • pkh540pkh540 Posts: 24
    You've made good points about replacing the AdBlu - I too do my own maintance (in fact just changed oil and replaced brakes on both my BMW540 and Land Cruiser in the past couple of months).

    Not trying to pick an argument but what you've made are just claims. Have you actually researched warranty requirements, availability (at dealers let alone truck stops) and the ability to actually get to the tanks (and to rinse)? Will you need special tools (i.e. reset for the OBC)? Can you use VW AdBlu in a BMW? And, aren't the initial refills covered by the maintenance plan (at least by BMW... you've referred to th MB as well) which would kind of make this a mut argument considering the warranty would have expired by then as well?

    IF I replace the TLC I am considering the BMW diesel and the items you've touched on are areas that I will want to research as well... so curious if you've done any.

    PS - agree that getting "stranded" running out of AdBlu is a load of poppycock, that relying on "run-flats" is a huge mistake and that replacing "18" or sport tires and wheels on an SUV is a priority.
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    BMW is kind enough to do their "adblue" refill at no charge when your doing the usual BMW service from what I have been told. Given I'm looking at 7 passenger rides the X5 was of no interest- but for the record the BMW diesel is over the top way more exciting than the MB regarding performance. The BMW ride and driving experience is much more ie sporty and accurate than the MB which is a big squishy and soft but thats well reported in the reviews too :-)

    The tank rinse info so far is from a MB guru whom I managed to corner for a bit. I wasn't able to sort out if the tank had a drain plug built into it but the Guru's comment was its so damn simple that washing all that brake dust crap off your wheels is a bigger more complex job. It would make sense they had a drain plug located in the tank or a simple process for draining the rinse. Most in trunk spare tire wheel well's have a plug in them also granted the Urea tank is sitting in the spare location and not actually the spare space its self.

    As for all Auto manufacture warranty stuff there are always exceptions but nearly 100% of the time if you have documented proof that your vehicle was properly maintained with fluids and materials that meet the standard specs there is no way an Automaker can void your warranty because you did not have them work on your car. Regarding the adblue urea stuff - its all the same stuff there isn't really any reason for one to be dramatically different than the next. If your off warranty and are savy and science minded enough you could simply mix your own adblue with the proper items of course. The adblue concept is super simple and not complex at all.

    Yes the tire run flat thing is actually a really big issue and I think that its actually starting to impact car choices for some people. Honda recently made it clear they were no longer doing run flats. I have a family member who had a recent AWD Sienna loved it! They were so fed up with the runflat issue they sold it.

    For those with the runflat or finding they really like a vehicle sold with them. The SUV with the 2inch hitch - you could still run your run flats and have a spare handy for the road trips and get whats called a tiregate which mounts in the hitch and carries your spare. Then for local around home stuff you could simply store the spare and the tiregate in the side yard or shed etc. For those of you who would like to fully replace the runflat for proper wearing - lasting and performing SUV tires the choices would be a custom built tire carrier in most cases given BMW and MB will not sell their rear tire carriers in the US given a rear impact accident with a tire carrier can increase the repair costs and ding their consumer ratings. Not to mention its cheaper to place the cost of runflat replacements on the consumer than its is to add the cost of a proper tire carrier to the vehicle :-) and further reduce your profit margin
  • watkinstwatkinst Posts: 119
    So far all my findings on the adblue fill is just having a funnel that works no different than making sure you have a funnel that lets you get oil or transmission fluid in that old Toyota. Or take your chances with spills etc.

    The access is simple MB its in a tank under the rear trunk floor. BMW is probably very similar given there aren't that many places you can hide an additional 4-7gallon tank.

    Adblue is all based on the same system - thus all the sources of urea for diesel emissions controls is essentially exactly the same and probably even supplied by one or two companies. So yes VW adblue or Audi adblue is going to be nearly or exactly the same stuff MB is willing to sell to you for 50% more money. Truck stops are starting to carry it given some trucks are running a nearly identical system. It won't surprise me one bit if Ford - Dodge and GM are all asked to incorporate this technology into their light duty trucks for now they get a free pass. But I know that CA has been eyeing all the light duty diesel pickups sporting 4inch exhaust pipes for some time now. Its only a matter of time before adblue is sold at any auto supply.
  • dcbmwownerdcbmwowner Posts: 8
    edited June 2010
    "The access is simple MB its in a tank under the rear trunk floor. BMW is probably very similar given there aren't that many places you can hide an additional 4-7gallon tank. "

    I know this post is a few months old, but someone might read it. BMW's diesel exhaust fluid tank is in the engine compartment. Easy access. Just open the hood.

    You don't need a funnel. The replacement fluid container's nozzle inserts into the vehicle's tank and prevents overflow and spills. My last service was at 12,000 miles and the exhaust fluid had not been depleted. The dealer just topped it off (free of course).
  • I am still debating regarding getting a diesel. It is tempting with all the current rebate offers from BMW and feds. Can anyone comment on the reliability of BMW diesels?

    I currently drive a 2003 325i and hence I am biased for an X5. Wife wants an MDX because of the value but I don't get that kick in an MDX as I got in an X5 when I test drove both. I need a reliablie SUV for our occasional trips with kids that average around 1000 miles.

    Any suggestions is really appreciated to make my decision easier.
  • anon3anon3 Posts: 147
    edited September 2010
    I have had two diesel BMWs (2009 and 2011 X5 35d) and I've had a total of seven X5s of various trim levels since 2001. I've had zero mechanical or warranty problems with any X5 since 2003. The diesels have been completely reliable.

    If you buy a diesel x5, I recommend the 2011 instead of a left-over 2010 for several reasons (even though the drive trains are essentially the same.)
    - Latest generation iDrive is a huge improvement
    - Bigger LCD screen
    - Google search, Google Maps come in really handy
    - Hard disk based nav system and electronics are much faster (so, for example, you don't have to wait for the back up camera to boot up)
    - Styling changes to the bumpers look great (that big black plastic rear bumper on the 2007 - 2010 now looks really ugly by comparison.)
    - BMW tuned more of the diesel engine noise out of the 2011 and the exhaust note isn't as invasive or annoying
    - Options packages make more sense now (for example, you can order it without the ugly, noisy roof rails and the active rear suspension is a stand-alone option now)

    If you're concerned about mechanical problems on trips with the kids, look up BMW Assist on the BMW USA web site. You have a data and voice connection to 24/7 emergency service, similar to GM's OnStar. They'll even make a phone call for you if you forget your cell phone.

    This current E70 X5 has been in production for 4 years since its debut as a 2007 model. Any bugs that would have been found in the 2007 have been worked out (I had a 2007 X5 4.8i and had no problems.)

    On the plus side: I can get 28.5 mpg in pure highway driving with a range of over 600 miles on a single tank if I drive reasonably. Mixed driving has yielded 23 mpg. The torque makes the vehicle feel very powerful and you won't miss a V-8. The pollution controls and improved mpg reduce the vehicle's carbon footprint.

    On the down side: the diesel is a little noisier and a little rougher around the edges than the new turbo 6 and 8 cylinder engines. But it has a deep, sporty sound during acceleration. Then it is quiet on the highway and the torque works wonders on hills and mountain roads.
  • cabluecablue Posts: 48
    edited September 2010
    I have the 2010 X5 diesel. It does have the improved iDrive in addition to the Google maps being sent to the car's nav. I use that a lot. Also, it does store music on the hard drive. Back-up camera is very quick. So, 2010's have those improvements. I bought mine at the end of '09, special ordered. I have 18,500 miles on it now. It has been great! I am very happy with it. I, too, get around 28.5-29.5 hwy. Mixed driving, I'm getting 23.5-24. My 5 series BMW's I've had in the past never got this kind of mileage. I was getting around 21.5 at best. I'd say go for it. I, too, checked out the MDX. X5, imo, is a lot better, and I feel better not having such a gas guzzler. Also, I could get mine without the roof rails, but I chose to get them. It was a stand-alone option. I personally like them. :)
  • I guess the third row on the X5 was the deal breaker for us. My wife really wants a decent third row. She like the X5 until she saw the third row. I guess we probably don't have a choice here other than to go with the MDX.
  • It may be time to use the one-time "I'm getting the BMW" exemption! :P
  • lessbslessbs Posts: 13
    I have a 2011 x5 diesel. The liftgate opens with the keyfob, but will not close with it. I have been in a store, gone into my pocket to remove money, then came out and found the liftgate wide-open--obviously hit the open button by mistake in the store. This, along with other quirks, are pretty unbelievable.
  • You mentioned that the roof rails are noisy. For sure the noise is coming from the rails? I just ordered a 35d and have time to delete the rails. I don't plan on using them. I thought they suit the car well.
  • I've owned a 2010 X5 35d for 13 months now and am on my 4th "check engine" light. Can't say I'm thrilled about the reliability since I've never had any car even have the light go on until this one - let alone 4 times in a year. Also have some electrical issue with the rear license plate light - sometimes it's on, sometimes not - expect a lot more from such an expensive car. Runs great though otherwise. I had also hit the buttons in my pocket too.

    Haven't seen any other posts with the level of problems I've had - keep hoping they have the issues worked out of mine but they haven't yet.
  • utkutk Posts: 2
    I have a 2009 X5 Diesel only 3800miles so far I had taken the car to the dealer 6 times for a check engine light and they still havent been able to figure out what the problem is! However, BMW dealer is good at figuring out how to be rude and arrogant to the customer..has any anyone had the same problem?
  • utkutk Posts: 2
    I've also owned an x5 diesel for a number of months and I've had my car in for the 5-6th time for a check engine light!! What have they told you the problem is?
  • I have had the same check engine light and licence plate light issues (which was fixed with a new bulb). The engine light has been on for most of the 15 months I have owned the vehicle. Dealer has replaced seveal pumps and filters, as well as the valve cover (leaking oil- took 6 weeks to get a replacement part from Germany) and also uploaded updated software, but the light always comes back on after driving for a period of time. Evidently could be a potential problem with the intercooler, and BMW is supposedly aware of this issue. I am tired of having my car in the shop. This is my 3rd BMW, but I will look to Audi next time.
  • I guess I don't feel lonely anymore. I've had two "check engine lights" in the last month (the car is only 6 mos old). The techs couldn't figure out the problem so they went back to BMW USA for help and were told that there was a failure of the EGR valve.

    Not only were there no EGR valves at the dealership, there were no EGR valves in the USA. They are so rare that the main factory in Germany had to manufacture one.

    Once the new valve was received and installed, it took about 20 minutes of driving for the check engine light to reappear.

    The techs went back to BMW USA asking for help and in the meantime, a new car will barely 7k miles on it is standing at the repair bay waiting for some kind of tech assist.

    And..BTW, this is only one example of issues I've had with this car. I had a major control module fail, emissions tests failures, steering wheel bushing problems and...well forget it.
  • I had the same story at 6K on mine - a year ago. Funny thing is, this is my 4th time and they told me the EGR also needs replacing just yesterday (2nd time) and, like you, there are none in the world so I have to pick my car up and wait for it to come in before they can fix it. Hopefully I'll get more than 2 weeks out of mine - usually get about 3 months. Too bad my dealership is 80 miles away so this EGR failure is also causing me 640 miles or back and forth driving not to mention the time/money.

    They told the me "the factory is working on it" and this is common in the WA/OR area - you don't happen to live in one of those states do you? Have a hard time believing this is common if they don't even have any in the world for spares. Heard the factory story a year ago too...hope they step up the pace...the truth is out there.
  • The license plate light turned out to be a wire rubbed raw and shorting in the rear tailgate. Said it looked like a repair was done in there after the fact but it came that way. Check your repair records for a "charge air temp sensor" being replaced - I'm on my 5th one (first one + 4 replacements) and I've heard the factory is working on it for a year now. Maybe I'm lucky with only the intercooler problem - told me it was a regional problem and not all areas are having it - what are are you in? I'm in the NW. :confuse:
  • I will check my records, I have has 2 or 3 pumps and sensors replaced. I can't remember which ones, I will check. I am in Ontario, so if my problems are the same as yours it isn't a regional thing.
  • Here is what I have had done to address the check engine light issue as it has come on at various times:
    - update DDE software (whatever that is)
    - replace throttle assembly/valve
    -replace air temp sensor
    - replace cylinder head cover
    -replace scr delivery module
    -replace air temp sensor (again)
  • The problem that caused the check engine light this time was a failure of the coolant temperature sensor. It was replaced and so far no reappearance of the check engine light.

    My question now is whether this sensor caused the problem with the EGR valve or if this is a separate issue.

    I've written a formal letter of complaint to BMW USA and after two weeks of waiting, still have received no response.
  • I have roof rails and they are not noisy...maybe someone has something loose but when they're installed right they don't make any noise.
  • schanockschanock Posts: 1
    My son just purchased a 2009 x5 35D with 3800 miles on it and had a warning about his truck would not start atfer 180 miles because of the urea being low. He brought it back to dealer and they said they never heard of it because it was full.
  • autosportautosport Posts: 1
    bmw x5 3.0i 2001 when I start up in morning reverse out my garage put it into drive and accelarte the revs just climb and the car does not move. then suddenly she will go. It only happens in the morning when engine is cold and only in drive not reverse. people tell me this is normal, due to some cold start. can anyone help. is this normal.
  • shrishri Posts: 1
    I purchased the diesel model last december. With 3700 miles on it,The car had transmission failure (transaxle box). I was really shocked to find the major failure with a brand new car ,that too BMW with such low miles.
    The dealership replaced the transmission under warranty. This is my first BMW.But my confidence in the BMW brand is shaken.
    I drove many brands befoe but never had transmission failure even with very high miles on the car. I am now skeptical about taking this car for long trip.
    Does any one have similar problem?
  • X5 deisel with 41,000 miles and the check engine light has come on 11 or 12 times??? each time some sensors have been changed. But the sensors can run up to $500.00 @, when off warranty???
  • kwf2kwf2 Posts: 1
    I just bought a x5 diesel. Filled it up twice using the funnel provided.
    Over-filled both times and spilled diesel on side of car, myself and payment.
    Is there a trick to using the funnel? Salesman admitted he spilled diesel all over him self when he filled it.
    Small diesel nozzles will not go in tank without funnel.
    How are you folks filling w/o spills?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    Not sure where you are located? We have only filled up three times since buying in early September and all 3 of the Shell/BP stations in Virginia and Maryland that we have gone to have nozzles that fit the tank. It can be a bit tricky as the nozzle just barely fits and needs to be aligned just right, but it goes in. It only goes in about haldf as far as gas nozzle, so I hold it in place while pumping. So far, no runs, drips or errors.

    I thought the funnel was used if the diesel nozzle is too big to go into the tank - you are saying it's too small? That sounds like the reverse situation of our experience - not sure why it's not going in if is smaller than the filler neck?
  • My 2009 has no funnel. There are 2 types of diesel pump nozzles, thick (for trucks etc) and thinner. The thinner one fits into my gas tank no problem.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,179
    X5 diesel with 41,000 miles and the check engine light has come on 11 or 12 times??? each time some sensors have been changed. But the sensors can run up to $500.00 , when off warranty???

    Has a sensor been changed each time the Check Engine light has come on? IF so you might want to talk to the dealer about the lemon law...
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