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Comments
Since it is based on the S platform, is it fairly safe to assume that it will be about the same size as the S type or the Lincoln LS? Also, will the typical 'wait 6 months for a new model so the obvious bugs can be fixed' rule-of-thumb apply here since it is based on a current model?
Here is how the program works:
You can take advantage of special discount prices on Ford, Lincoln, Mercury,
Mazda, Volvo and Land Rover.
Ford Super Duty F450-F750, Ford Thunderbird, Jaguar, Mazda MP3 and
Aston Martin vehicles are not covered by this program. Exclusions are
subject to change.
I assume this is the only X-plan out there. According to the examples given of actual invoices (of course they're a little to grainy to make out the details yourself) the X-plan price is right at dealer invoice, give or take a couple hundred dollars (FLM). FLM is 4% over the A-plan price. Volvo is 2% over A-plan. Land Rover is 4% over dealer invoice and Mazda is "just below" dealer invoice. It doesn't cover trade-ins - you're on your own. But dealer participation is voluntary. They don't have to sell to you at the X-plan price.
Still sounds like a good, no haggle price if you find a willing dealer.
Also, has anyone had luck finding an adaptor for a non-dealer installed CD for the 2000 model (in glove box)?
As for Z rated tires lasting 50K, I wouldn't bet on it. I would guess 35K max unless you do a lot of straight highway cruising on smooth asphalt. But the uneven wear suggests an alignment problem. Have the alignment checked.
BTW - Michelin has come out with a 235/50VR17 Pilot HX MXM4 tire for the new T-bird that will also fit the LS and S-type. That's what I'll be putting on my LS when the Firehawks wear out, which looks like it will be somewhere around 25K. That's the price for performance. Could be worse: my neighbor's 540i eats a set of $1200 Dunlops every 12K. Ouch!
P-Zeroes are perhaps the most capable ultra-High performance tires on the market. As such, they tend to wear quickly. 30K is about as good as you're going to get.
Uneven wear on the edges of a tire, however, generally indicate misalignment. ANd feathering wear like that is generally caused by the "toe" setting being out. Toe does not generally cause a pull either, incorrect Camber generally causes a pull.
Hope this helps!
Bill
LOLOL
Bill
Bob
Steve
1)Do you know the horsepower ratings of the S-Type and the Lincoln LS?
2)Would it concern you if they both had the same horsepower?
They are as related as the Lexus RX300 and the Toyota Avalon.
HP is different, induction systems, engine management systems, cyliner head designs..etc.. are all different.
Suspensions are different, body structures, sheetmetal..etc.. all different.
About all they share are engine blocks and floorpan stampings.
Bill
Would appreciate notes from similar bares of bad news.
message board has many references to the problem because other
owners have experienced it, however. Some
there have suggested that high speed balancing is the solution; others
that tire changing does the trick. You might wish to post your experience
there. I know there are some Jaguar dealer service people there as well
http://www.Jagtalk.com . It's free.
Steve
In your list you forgot to mention all the important things they do share. How about transmissions? Yeah, Jag kept the crummy J-gate, but Lincoln was smarter to give option of regular shift pattern or SST option.
Regardless of their similarities and differences, both are nice cars. I consider mine to be the smart money man's Jag S-type. But then I've got an MBA.
transmissions? Yeah, Jag kept the crummy J-gate, but Lincoln was smarter to give
option of regular shift pattern or SST option.
OK, transmissions. Does this make a 1988 XJ6, 1988 Range Rover, 1988 735i and a 1988 420SEL the same car because they all used a ZF 4HP22? OK, what else?
Regardless of their similarities and differences, both are nice cars. I consider mine
to be the smart money man's Jag S-type. But then I've got an MBA.
Yes, the purchase price of the LS is lower. Total ownership costs? That depends from what I am currently seeing, LSs are doing not a LOT better than Continentals and Town cars in the resale dept. S-Types are still doing quite well...72% over 2 years so far.
It must be very nice to have an MBA, I am duly impressed. Since I did not finish college being an equity partner in 2 new car stores is about as good as I have done. It did take me 5 years after finishing my Junior year of college though.
Bill
Drive the two and you'll notice the important similarities. Steering, ride, handling, balance feel, braking, etc. Have you ever driven an LS? If you do, drive the LS8 Sport. It is the sportiest LS (not counting the LS6 Sport manual).
Guess we'll likely have to agree to disagree. Both Jag and Lincoln are part of Ford's corporate empire. Ford USA is now importing Jag staff to bolster US operations.
If you focus on the things you can visually see (e.g., exterior sheet metal) you'll accentuate the differences. But if you focus on the things you sense while driving, you'll accentuate the similarities. And their overall measured performance results are similar, which is not to be unexpected since they share a common platform.
Did you inherit your equity partnership? Or buy out family member? Marry into money? Do you drive your S-type or have your driver do it for you? I'm picturing you enjoying your Grey/Gray Poupon mustard while sitting in back.
I believe the official count is 40% commonality. Lots of underbody sheetmetal, powertrain components, and switchgear. So what? If you don't think that Jaguar has enough value added to justify the price tag, then don't buy one. Its a far cry from being a badge engineered car, and they did as much as they could given Jag's financial situation at the time.
"Ford USA is now importing Jag staff to bolster US operations."
Hmmm, that's a good one. I work at Jaguar, and I haven't seen anyone imported to Ford North America to bolster operations. Are you thinking of Nick Scheele, chairman of Ford Europe?
For someone who drives an LS, it seems strange to me that you are so down on the S-type, and rude to brentwoodvolvo. What's your deal?
I am glad that you enjoy it. I drove an LS for the first time in San Francisco at the dealer preview. We own an S-Type inthe family and it has been totally flawless and I love the car.
That being said, I do not see how one entering a Jaguar S-Type topic and saying how a Lincoln, which is built to a lower price, is a better car and expecting a positive response is a logical way to have a conversation. Again, we will apparently agree to disagree.
Did you inherit your equity partnership?
Nope.
Or buy out family member?
Nada.
Marry into money?
Not at all.
Do you drive your S-type or have your driver do it for you? I'm picturing you
enjoying your Grey/Gray Poupon mustard while sitting in back.
Nope. If I didnt want to drive I'd get a Town Car or some other such motorized sofa. This week its' an M5, who knows what it'll be next week. In the garage are 2 modern Jags tho.
Bill
Also, a large part of why the AJ-V8 ismoew powerful thanthe LS's V8 is simple...
Cost. A hugechunk of the power output advantage can betraced down to a Variable Valve timing system. Not sure what it costs, but when the cars came out for the heck of it I looked up some replacement parts costs... It seems to be a VERY expensive system!
That being said, the LS8 does quite well.
Bill
But this may be a moot point since Jag is getting 3.3 and 4.3 engines soon. This would clear the way for Lincoln to use the VVT 3.0 and 4.0 to boost hp while maintaining the Jag edge. I still think SVT could come out with a Supercharged version of the V8 and still be politically correct.
I think Ford should consider a supercharged LS. Think about it a 400HP LS with a 6-speed trans., like they are experimenting with for the XKR in England.
The contiuous VVT used on the 4.0L V8 is being offered on the X-type 2.5 and 3.0. So it can be done on a $30,000 car. However, Jag is trying to maintain a seperation between the LS and S-Type.
I was told by a Lady at Jaguar (Anne Stone, Mike you must know her ) said that it added like $3,000 total in costs to the car (probably included develoment..etc..)
Thats a big chunk.
Bill
Nor would looking at replacement parts cost total be a decent approximation of what it costs to manufacture on a per-unit basis over the production run. If you were to price out the total replacement parts to fully build your Jag S-type or my LS8 Sport, the quoted total would be in the area of two to three times the entire cost of the vehicle when originally sold.
The insurance industry loves to show those annual surveys in which the total replacement part cost of a lowly sedan like a Ford Taurus can be $40K or $50K and up. And that is just for the parts, nothing for the labor.
And, as I had mentioned, the costs of the parts were a solid $3K+, I then mentioned that the VVT system added $3K or so in costs to the car, much of it I amsure includes manufacturing and tooling, and development costs..etc..
Bill
But nobody's answered the question. If it's fear of sounding petty, I'll go first. If Ford were to come out with a new Taurus based on a similar but cheaper platform (DEW98 "lite") and put the 3.9 V8 in it, I would feel like my LS had been somehow diminished, lost it's "special-ness". So, V8 owners, what about it? Can we borrow your engine without diminishing the prestige of Jaguar?
My own ride is a 2000 LS Manual, which had a lot of help from the Jaguar boys in its development (Luk clutch, dual mass flywheel, hydraulic slave cylinder, Getrag tranny).
Does anyone know if the S-type 3.0 is available in Europe with a Manual?
Outstanding store tho. I actually have my own place now, which is.. uhh... interesting
Yes, you can get a 3.0 S-Type with a 5-speed in Europe. I've driven one and I liked it a lot.
Bill
Have any of you experienced this problem with your S-Types ?
The S is still a substantially different car..
Bill
Thanks for your understanding.
Pat
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