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Cadillac DeVille



  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    Come on - There are thousands of Devilles out there. Doesn't anyone have anything to say about them?
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    I own a 2002 dts and many of my friends own jags. Most of them love the looks(exterior and interior) and the prestige, but hate the fact that every jag model is rather unreliable, handle and ride ok but is not remarkable, has cramped interiors and cargo space. Each burns premium gas and (except the x type) is rwd. Each is rather pricey but deeply discounted.

    A 2002 deville (dhs or dts) would probably be your best bet imho because: It would probably be more reliable than a 2001, it has more space than any jag and would probably be more reliable, it burns regular gas, it will have on star built in and possibly optional integrated boise stereo with xm radio, its fwd, dealers are not hard to find, it rides and handles suprisingly well for such a large car, it probably is quieter than the jag. Btw, the dhs/dts has analog instrumentation compared to the ugly digital readout in the base model deville which lacks some of the standard and optional features in the dhs/dts.
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    I have been very happy with my 98 Deville but must admit I love the appearance of the Jaguars.
    The practical considerations you mention outweigh
    the appearance issue and weigh heavily in favor of Cadillac. A major concern for me would be the reliability factor which by all accounts I have heard favor Cadillac. Another consideration is that there are no Jaguar dealers in my town but there is a Cadillac dealership.
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    I've had my DHS for a couple of weeks now and my impressions are stil pretty good. Before stating my opinions, a brief car history is in order to understand my perspective and see were I'm coming from.

    1st car - 1990 Mazda MPV Black 4cyl - 17'' wheels
    2nd car - 1997 Ford Taurus Wagon Silver 6cyl - 17''wheels
    3rd car ( still have ) - 1993 Infiniti J30 Blue 6cyl ( same engine used in older 300z ) - 15''
    4th car - 1998 - Toyota Camry Blue 4cyl - this was my reasonable, reliable family car and pretty much the best car I've owned. The camry is hard to categorize, It was the perfect choice at the time for my situation ( new family, new job )- very logical and rational, but as we know logical and rational when it relates to cars usually equals boring....anyway on to the Caddy:

    The car is very smooth and I'm impressed by its composure at cruising speeds in excess of 100 while still having plenty of throttle left and still not even breaking 3,000 RPM. During my commute every day I ensure that carbon deposits problems remain a non issue. I enjoy driving and this car makes my 60 mile-a-day commute so much easier. After a long day, I hop in, heat my seat, and get a massage while rolling down the's lovely. Night vision is also a great toy and even better bragging point. I couldn't get enough of it at first, but now I leave it off most of the time.

    I wanted a big car and this is indeed a very big car. I can't easily steer it with my knee as with other vehicles I've owned ( knee steering occurs while removing discs from cases, etc. ), and it has the turning radius of a truck. Also, the car has scared me a couple of times when cornering and braking. I quickly learned to approach turns much more cautiously and brake a little sooner. The car maintains a pretty good velocity once its up to speed even without additional throttle, and sometimes needs to be reined in accordingly. I don't really "hot-rod" and I do not drive recklessly, but I do enjoy driving. I also feel a sense of responsibility to re-instill the respect of Cadillac into my fellow motorists from time to time. I think a lot of people have the image of old people behind the wheels of Caddy's in their minds and don't realize that these cars are 300 ft-lbs torque monstors.

    I think the overall cadillac image is changing for the better though. I was proud the other day to see a CTS in my rearview approaching fast as he77. People use to aspire to owning Cadillacs, but then that fell off for a while. I knew I wanted a large luxorious car and the price of entry for cadillac ownership was a steal. Were else can one find a better deal on a companies 3 year old luxury flagship sedan? People who purchased new may not have that same appreciation though. I think Cadillac will be OK with a little bit more attention paid to interior fit, finish, and design. My top of the line DHS has the rearview park assist and the display looks as if it was literally cut out from the headliner with a razor blade...rough edges and all. I can also stick my pinkey finger inside a few pannel gaps. And even though I have a sun roof on my DHS, why don't all Devilles come standard with sunroofs. Some small gripes, but some people may not be able to look past these things especially those people that buy brand new. Anyone seen a touregg interior?

    All in all, I'm am very pleased with my car. I've washed it more in the past few weeks than I did the camry in 2.5 years. Sometimes I find myself smiling for no reason while I'm driving it...I think I may keep it for a long time.

    ...a few pics on
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    I do my own oil changes and the first oil change I did on my caddy a few days after I got it reminded me I was in a different league. First off, my hydraulic jack which could hoist my Camry with ease, couldn't lift the Deville.

    Ok..need new jack.

    Anyway I managed to be able to slide under the car just enough to reach the oil pan plug and preceded to drain the oil. After 30 or 40 seconds I'm lying there thinking..this flow is still going as strong as when I first removed the plug. Needless to say I made a mess in my driveway. The oil pan I normally use didn't have enough capacity to hold the caddys oil.

    Need new oil pan.

    So I clean and tighten everything back up and proceed to get the oil I had left from an earlier case... 3..4..annnnd 5. That should do it...wright...wrong. The dip stick was still bone dry. Ok I forgot this is a big engine, let me grab another quart. Still nothing registering on the dipstick. Now I've worked In a shop before and I'm no stranger to oil changes but I rarely encountered engines that take more than 6 quarts of oil so I was skeptical about adding more because I didn't want to overfill it. So now I need all new equipment and 2 cases of oil. I wound up putting 7 quarts in, and have read varying reports that range between 7 - 8. Maybe I'll settle for 7.5 next time. Any thoughts?
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    ...takes 8 quarts of oil. I haven't had the pleasure of changing the oil in my Northstar-equipped 2002 Seville STS yet. My previous car was a 1994 DeVille base with the 4.9 litre V-8. Changing the oil was a snap. The oil filter was easily accessible. One small turn with the oil filter wrench then you could twist it loose with your hand and remove it. I didn't need to jack the car to access the oil pan plug as well.

    Does your oil pan plug still use a rubber O-ring that needs to replaced every time you change your oil? My '94 DeVille did. I got a handful of them from my dealer.
  • hydra2hydra2 Posts: 114
    You're more than welcome. Here are a few other considerations, for what they are worth:

    1. Cadillac dealers may go the extra mile to deal in order to retain you as a caddy customer, it won't hurt to try to exert a little leverage when dealing, especially if you know approximate invoice/wholesale prices from sites like edmunds.
    2. Current model devilles (2000 - 2004) are good looking cars. I still get compliments on mine.
    3. You are spoiled and pampered by the: heated and massaging seats, memory seats and steering wheel, programmable auto lock/unlock, back up assist, sunshades (side/rear) (dhs), bucket seats and floor shifter (dts), heated outside mirrors, auto adjusting backup side view mirror, rain sense wipers, triple zone climate control (wives/significant others/backseat passengers love it and the heated seats), sophisticated trip computer, xm radio, onstar, night vision and nav system. Jags may have some of these features, but not all of them and probably not at such attractive prices.
    4. You may have to pay up for the extra goodies on the 2002 dhs/dts, especially one with all of the extra options (navi, xm radio, night vision, parking assist). Guesstimate is 27k-32k, a steal compared to 48k-55k [depending on region and negotiating skills] new selling prices before taxes and finance charges. Base 2002 devilles will be much cheaper and easier to find. If you don't need the extra interior goodies, they look the same on the outside, ride and handle almost as well as the pricier dhs/dts (if you can live with the digital dash)and are probably available in the 22-25k range. This and maybe some infiniti models represent value luxery, it borders on highway robbery ;)
    5. The Northstar engine. Nuff said.
    6. Just for the heck of it you might compare the best deal you can get on a loaded 2002 with a new 2004 from the same dealership. You may be surprised at your findings. Dealers who are overstocked with loaded new cars may give you a better deal if you've done your homework and they know you are considering a used model to save $$. The same may be true of the used car seller. Even though the loaded 2002 may be marked up due to scarcity and high demand, if your offer is reasonable and you let it be known that you'll consider buying new before being highly overcharged for a loaded 2002, you may get a surprisingly good deal. A final tactic which may work or backfire is to mention that you can buy a loaded new accord or camry for the same or less $$.
    7. Be sure to test drive each model. You will be surprised at the difference between the 02-04 caddy and your current model. Happy hunting and make sure to choose what you really like.
  • I'm the excited winner of a Cadillac DeVille in the GM Hot Button Game. And that's great. . . but I can't keep the car because I'll owe so much in taxes on it. The dealer I'm taking delivery from can only offer me 33K for this base model Deville with the Comfort and Convenience Package on it that stickers for $47,915. Another dealer has offered me a little more to trade it, but I still would like to get closer to what they are selling for. Anyone have any ideas on where I could privately sell this car?
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I'd pay the taxes even if you have to borrow the money and then sell the car on Ebay. If you aren't currently doing business on Ebay I'd find a friend or relative to put it on for you. I'd then sell it as an essentially new car. You should be able to get around 40 for it, perhaps more. 33 is highway robbery. This is way under dealer invoice. They ought to at least pay you what they have to pay GM for one.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    Problem is that even though the Deville is "new", it is still pre-owned. Sticker may be $47,900, but you can buy it for 39,900. That is not titled before, full tank of gas, brand spankin' new. So dealer is definately going to be well below invoice on trade in. They take it in on trade for $34/$35 ask 38/39ish and make a couple on it.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I agree. My car cost Alamo $36,000 -it was a 2003 base Deville -so it probably cost a dealer about that since the car was delivered direct to Alamo in Florida - probably from a distributor somewhere. No dealer was involved. I still think 33 is too little. Until the winner takes delivery and a title it is not registered. I'd at least hold out for 36. Frankly I'd pay the taxes and enjoy driving it. Its a nice car and the taxes will be a lot less than payments.
  • Thanks for the replies, all.
    I understand that even tho it's new, it's used by virtue of the fact that I had to title it in my name. But I still think that they ought to give me 35K for it. I played nice and did the press conference and said good things about Cadillacs and GM in general for the interviews. I dunno, I thought with what I did they could give me $35K for the car and sell me a different car at invoice. Instead, they originally offered me 33K for the DeVille and an unspecified discount, which when I said was too little I got offered 35K and the other car at sticker price. (The other car has a 2K manufacturer to dealer incentive on it).
    Cadillac currently offers the dealers $4K in marketing support and the customer $750. So the dealer COULD sell my model car which invoices for 41K for $36,250 if he was willing to make nothing. With my car, he gets no GM money, but he could still sell mine for the trade I'm asking for (35K) and make a little on the other car even selling it to me at invoice. I don't get why he's balking. I'd take 2K to sell the other car I'm looking at. And I KNOW he can get more than $35K for this car, even though it's consider used.
    As for the taxes, the sales tax I had to pay to pick the car up. And the contest rules specified that in order to take possession I had to title it, which means that I could never have sold it as "new". The 12K in income taxes won't be due until next April.
    I thought of selling it on ebay, checked it out and they aren't going for very much. I thought the car was going to be badged with some reference to being a Hot Button car, and would be unique. Now THAT would make it a car worth the invoice price!
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    At least you have some time to sell it. 12k seems high for income taxes but perhaps you could use it for business and write some of that off. Unfortunately on a trade a dealer normally gives you what he can buy a similar car at auction for. Does the other car you are considering have a rebate on it? I think it is a good thing to try and get top dollar on a trade but you need to consider the fact that somebody gave you a commodity worth more than 30k. Before you pushed the button you had nothing. I'm not a philosopher but it seems logical to consider what you have as a windfall and if you don't want the Cadillac, it is nice to know that you have a choice of many other lesser cars absolutely free. I don't know how to get out of paying the taxes but I suppose that you could get a new or used car in the 20s and the difference between 33 and the price of the other car might pay most of the taxes. In short, I wouldn't worry a lot about resale value on a free car that might at the most cost you 12k.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    You should post this over in "Real Worls Trade-In Values". Terry will give you fair trade value and probably good advice on what to do.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's a good idea volvodan1 - here's the link: Real-World Trade-In Values
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    I'll take it off your hands and pay the taxes!
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I have a 2003 Deville and all of the US dealer sales material for it but would like to have one of the Canadian dealer brochures (like you would find on a rack in the dealer showroom. Please contact me at if you have one to spare. Thanks
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Don't put 8 quarts of oil in your Northstar.

    Look at the owners manual - it says 7.5 quarts.

    If you overfill, and 8 quarts is overfill, the extra oil will be 'burned' quickly, actually scavaged out through the PCV system. You also might get foamed oil because of the overfilling, which is not good.

    7.5 quarts will not bring the dipstick up to the 'max' mark. But 7.5 is correct. I don't know why Cadillac did this, with the max mark not being where the recommended amount falls - but that's how it goes.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I hope the winner is still reading here...

    I won a new car in 1996 or so.

    It was not at all what I wanted - it was a base model Ford Contour, 5 speed.

    I also was not able to sell the car for 'what it was worth'. Not much you can do about that. Couldn't get anyone to buy on a private sale, so I sold it to a used lot in town.

    I can give you some advice on taxes:
    You will get a 1099 from GM or someone, giving a value they place on the car. It will be a 'fair trade value', or something like this, probably not the MSRP or Invoice value.

    This 1099 amount is the amount you will have to report as income and pay taxes on.

    Except ----
    1)I am assuming you will not be able to sell the car for the amount on the 1099.
    2) You have to show the 1099 amount as regular income. If you don't, the govmint will catch you on this.
    3) Don't drive the car yourself.
    4) Since the car was never driven, it is not 'Personal Property', it can be called 'Real Property'. This allows you to use Form D, Real Property. Show the 1099 value as the Base Amount. Show the amount you sold the car for as the Sold Value. Any negative difference, up to $3,000, you can deduct from your taxable income. If you 'lost' more than $3,000 you can 'carry over' it to next years taxes (or even more years in the future).

    I got the above guidance from the IRS. And used it on my 1996 tax return. I worked fine, no problem with the IRS.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Just a precautionary note -- always check out information yourself before relying on something you've read, well, on the internet. :)

    But thanks, bolivar, you've certainly suggested some possibilities which I'm sure he will check out.
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    Thanks lemko & bolivar for the responses. I'm inclined to use 7.5 but as I stated before, I always get different response between 7-8 and I've yet to see an official GM doc with their recommendation. Maybe I'll ask one of the dealer's service departments as I may be making a visit very soon...wife said the dhs cut off at a light the other day and today it took two uncomfortable tries to crank up...and I just went over convenient.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I'll be happy to trade American catalogs and brochures for one. Thanks. - dispencer
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I consider the 'Owners Manual' an 'official GM document'. And it says 7.5 quarts with a filter change.

    I agree with 'host' comments about my tax advice. I don't believe all I read on the internet either.

    At the time I won the car, in my work I had access to an online service which provided access to IRS Tax Regulations. I read a lot of tax regulations. There is another approach I found where you can make your own 'fair market value' statement (all this assumes you cannot sell the vehicle for as much as is on the 1099 you will receive). This is what I was going to do.

    Then I called the IRS. And I was very, very impressed with the response I got. Don't believe some of what you hear about the IRS having out of date computer systems. In about 30 seconds, they were able to pull up my previous years tax return and look at it. They told me to call back later because 'old Joe', who knew everything about the situation I had was not in today. I called back a few days later, and talked to 'old Joe' about what I thought I needed to do, make my own 'fair market value' statement, etc. He asked if I had driven the car, and when I had not, he gave the advice about the car not being personal property and could be reported as 'Real' property, and taking the loss on Form D.

    That's been 6 years, I don't think they are going to come after me now.

    Of course, tax laws could have changed, etc.
    I'm not a Tax Accountant and I don't play one on TV, etc.
    Don't believe everything you see on the internet, etc.
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    I've been using a downloaded ( *FREE* ) GM manual for my caddy ( very nice ftp tree with all GM cars from 1993 - present ):

    ...and I must have overlooked the capacities page, that's why I said I've yet to see it officially. But I finally did find it after searching the pdf for "7.5", it's on page 384 of 397...

    I've also found, through Cadillac Forums, another useful GM doc with a capacity chart for most GM vehicles:
  • walterm3walterm3 Posts: 8
    Gegging to differ with Bolivar and Lemko --- As a four year owner of a 2000 DTS this subject has been of interest because I change my own oil and am concerned about proper amount. Living in a remote area of the US we don't have a Cad dealer within a couple dundred miles so I telephoned the service departments of four dealers in three neighboring states. Without exception all four stated that the 7.5 quart capacity is WITHOUT filter. That they routinely make an 8 quart oil change and two said that they add a little more to get to the top of the hash mark on the dip stick. They said the dipstick IS AN ACCURATE measurement and that 8 (plus a pinch) WILL NOT OVERFILL the Northstar engine but don't fill over the hash mark.

    Always open to further debate I would appreciate comments in this info.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I checked with my dealer a couple of weeks back because when I got my first oil and filter change there it cost $28. My normal Chevy, Olds, etc oil changes ran around $20 at that dealership. The service writer told me that the Cadillac requires 8 quarts of oil. I always have the dealer change the oil so I assume he knows how much to put in.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316

    1997 Service Manual. Deville, Eldorado, Seville.
    Book 1 of 2.
    Section and Page Number, 0B-9.
    Engine Oil With Filter 7.2L 7.5QTS

    (This is the full-blow Cadillac Service Manual, not the Owners Manual. Although the Owners Manual also says 7.5 quarts.)

    But, what's a Cadillac oil change monkey going to do with a half-quart of oil? PUT IT IN THE ENGINE! Are they going to charge you for a half-quart of oil? NO!

    Oh, well. If 8 quarts is good, then why not throw in 9 quarts.......
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    I very much appreciated the time you took and detail you provided in responding to my original post regarding Cadillac vs Jaguar. Both of your responses were well thought out, made very good sense and were very helpful.

    As to my plans. As mentioned earlier I have only 35,000 on the 98 Deville and other than an alternator replacement covered by warranty the car has done well. I actually like some aspects of the 98 vintage Devilles' appearance better than the newer models. The one thing that would really motivate me to trade and spend significant
    dollars would be a major improvement in the power ratings of the engine. As you are probably aware the newer Devilles' still have 275 horsepower same as my 98. I am aware that they can run well on regular fuel as opposed to premium on the 98. I have been impressed by the power ratings of the new CTS-V Cadillacs' with the Corvette inspired 400 horsepower engines.
    Since I generally wait a year or two and buy low mileage used it will be a while before the CTS-V
    models reach the used market.

    Has anyone in this conference driven the CTS-V and if so what were your impressions as to power,
    comfort and quality of the vehicle compared to any of the current Devilles'?
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    Service centers for the most part don't just pop caps of single quarts of oil and then start counting them off. They fill portable containers from high capacity tanks or use a dispencer attached to a main oil tank and thus have to measure off accordingly. Techs aren't just standing around with a half empty container of oil eye balling it...but you know, as I try to visualize it, that it is pretty funny...
  • walterm3walterm3 Posts: 8
    Bottom line! Four different Cad Service Managers said to fill to the top of the hash marks on the dip stick whether it takes 7.5 or 8.25 quarts after filter change and running engine to fill filter and allowing oil to drain back to pan. However, DO NOT fill over top of hash marks - that would be overfilling.
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