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Cadillac DeVille

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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I have to agree. If a ten year old car is worth $3700 to fix, and you get a few more years of use out of it, then you are getting some value for your money. I think that one should consider a ten year old car basically fully depreciated (if you bought it new, or nearly new). Ten year old cars are going to need repairs.
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    I'm not sure there actually is a class action lawsuit. I've never heard of one.

    I think this message got started when someone said there 'should' be a class action lawsuit.

    And, it isn't just 10 year old cars with head gasket problems. Northstars from 1993 until at least 2000 have head gasket problems. Maybe even later ones.
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The first generation northstar (1993 through 1999) had some design issues that may have been corrected in the redesign for the 2000 model year. I don't know what the problem is with the head gasket, but I wonder if part of the problem is related to water pump failure. Water pumps do not work for the life of the engine, and the northstar water pumps would usually need fixed after about 50,000 to 75,000 miles. Usually the owner of the car will have an engine that overheats, which is the first clue that the water pump is not working. The northstar engine is not harmed by overheating, but the head gaskets may be stressed and, if there were any flaws, may start leaking.

    But my point was that any car that is 10 years old should be expected to have problems.
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    jasper60103jasper60103 Member Posts: 22
    Also, it seems low coolant is another clue. Northstars cooling systems with dex don't seem to be as tolerant of this.

    When I gas up, I try to make a point to check my coolant and oil on my 04 Deville. Also, I had the coolant changed when I bought it just in case. So far, so good.

    -jasper
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think it is best to check the coolant level when the engine is cold. But in any case, when you see a change in the level, it is wise the find out why.

    The basic problem is that the northstar is an aluminum engine, and leaking coolant is bad for corrosion. Dexcool may be worse in a leaking system that other coolants, but other coolants are not good with aluminum either.
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    joeblack1joeblack1 Member Posts: 52
    I'm seriously considering downsizing from my Suburban to a 99 Deville now that I have a few less kids around. I'm tired of driving a truck, and looking for a smoother ride with better gas mileage. Can anyone offer any tips on what to check or what to expect in major repairs? I am looking for something in the 25-50K miles range.
    Thanks!
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    04cad04cad Member Posts: 131
    What are you looking to spend? 2005 Devilles are available if you look around, for around $20,000. for 34,000 mile cars still under warranty. Don't forget Cadillac has the 50k mile 48 month (I think those are the numbers) warranty standard instead of the 36 month 36k and if it is certified, I think it qualifies for the new longer powertrain warranty. They ride great, look great, get decent mileage especially on the highway, and if you are thinking of buying used are priced right. Good luck :)
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    amkdevileamkdevile Member Posts: 19
    2000-2005's use regular gas. They run great on 87 and will not carbon up as easily. I have a 2005 and am very pleased with it. 26 mpg. on highway. Smooth and powerful.
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    joeblack1joeblack1 Member Posts: 52
    I'm looking to buy a 99. In my opinion this is the last year that has the classic Cadillac look. And, you can get nice one of these with 34k miles for about 10,000.00.
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    cooldude48818cooldude48818 Member Posts: 7
    I am thinking about getting a 96 Cadillac Deville with 165,000 on it from a friend of mine. He says that the guy he got it from was driving it 3 days ago and all of a sudden it won't shift into 3rd or overdrive gears. Says the tranny fluid looks good but I think it could be the filter. Does anybody else have any suggestions???
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    04cad04cad Member Posts: 131
    Those were nice cars for their time. I believe they do need premium gas? You could probably get a 2002 or 2003 low mileage for just a little more and I believe they use regular gas. Have you driven a newer Deville? There is a noticeable difference in even the 2005 to the 2007s, and the 2005s drive very nice. Good luck whichever way you go.
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    I doubt it will be something as simple as the filter. I think the filter is actually a cleanable metal screen.

    It's probably one or both shift solonids inside the tranny. The parts are relatively inexpensive (both should be changed if the repair is made), but the tranny will have to be opened up to get to them.

    I 'think' the motor does not have to be pulled to get to these. Just opening it up from the bottom, they can be accessed.

    If it is one of these solonids, it should be setting an error code. This code can be read out and it will point to the solonids. Otherwise, it might be something else.

    There is a third solonid. Known as 'the $40 part buried $2,000 deep in the tranny'. This one activates the lock-up on the torque converter. A failure on it will set a different error code. The reason it is so expensive - the motor and tranny have to be pulled in order to be able to disassemble the tranny enough to get to this one.

    Find someone to read the error code, and can tell you what they mean.
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    cooldude48818cooldude48818 Member Posts: 7
    If I get a Haynes book, will this tell me how to change thoes solonids? And do you know how much these solonids cost or even what the name of them is? I don't think that I am losing out on this deal. I am trading a 95 Dodge Neon for it with about 166,000mi on it. I just don't want to end up putting lots of money into this car. I have been reading about the Dexcool stuff on this site. Should I change the coolant in this car if I do get it???
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    I've never liked anything but factory service manuals. I would bet a Haynes will say 'Transmission service is beyond the scope of this manual. See an experienced service person for this area.'

    Look on ebay for a set (2 books) of service manuals. Probably should go for about $50. A new set can be bought at www.helmsinc.com . Factory manuals will cover tranny dis-assembly.

    P.S. It's a Cadillac. You could spend LOTS of money on it!

    P.P.S. If you don't know the service history on the car, I would change the coolant. Look at the belts, there is a small one that drives the water pump off the rear of the left cam.
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    cooldude48818cooldude48818 Member Posts: 7
    Well I went and took a look at it yesterday and I didn't like what I seen. I have been working on cars for about 12 years and if I have to take the tranny apart in the engine compartment, I ain't gettin it. Other besides that the car was in great shape and it had 154000mi in it. New water pump and belt. Thanks for the input on this car. I think that I am going to stick with my Neon. Thank you Bolivar.
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    rebeccatrebeccat Member Posts: 5
    the blog I have been reading was written a year ago, but its getting really close to what I am looking for. I wrote down the manuel info and will look in a few. But I need the speed-in-put sensor inside the trans........I'll do both trans sensors. any info on this problem. over 165,000 and really running great other than that.rebeccat
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    What?
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    rebeccatrebeccat Member Posts: 5
    I have a 96 deville.One of the sensors inside the trans is messin up... It has been diagnosed as the speed input sensor.I was checking this sight to see if anyone else had sim prob...Some I read was from 2006....sooooooo. I need to replace it. I also know there are 2 diff in trans,, I plan to do both,,, tokeep from haveing to repeat a expensive repair. I hope not to mess with the rest of the trans. Car has over 165,000,,,All else seems to work well...Does anyone have experence with this repair? and have advise..rebeccat
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Well, I think this is the dreaded '$40 part buried $2,000 deep in the transmission'. The error code is something like a 720 or 721 or something like this.

    The transmission (and ususally they pull the motor and tranny together) has to be pulled to get to this solonid. This solonid locks up the torque converter. So, the car usually can be driven, your milage will just suffer because it is not locking the converter up after 45mph or so.

    The other two solonids, shift solonids, known at the A and B solonids, are easier to get to and do not require the removal of the tranny. And yes, if you do go into the tranny to get the VSS/speed sensor one, you should also replace the A and B shift ones.
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    gerardkgerardk Member Posts: 1
    Looking for some sage advice from experienced Cadillac type. Decided to buy a used Cadillac, wanted a Northstar engine. Decided on 2000 because they made improvements to the motor. Regular gas, redesign etc. Assuming it makes sense to get 2000 vs. earlier due to motor advances?

    Can get equally good deal on a Deville DTC or Eldorado ETC. I prefer the classic body style of the Eldorado and would have to get use to the look of the new style Deville. Like the taillights on the Deville but the front end is different. Also, age 46, only me and the wife and a small dog, no kids.

    Is it just a question of looks and desired style or is the redesigned body on the Deville model for 2000 significant enough that I would notice the difference in quality, ride, or performance?

    Bottom line is I could learn to like the looks of the Deville body style if the drive experience was significantly different over the traditional chassis on the Eldorado. I prefer the looks of the Eldorado but do not want to give up too much for that style preference. Hence lies the dilemma.

    Thanks in Advance.
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Hey, you are asking questions that only your personal preference can answer.

    Go test drive both and decide.

    One thing about 2000 model Northstar - Crank sensors. There are two of them. And many of them fail. Failure will cause a total engine stop, and it could be at speed. If your car does just die suddenly, this is probably the problem, and I would repair it quickly before you have a flameout at 75mph in the left lane of a busy highway.
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    rebeccatrebeccat Member Posts: 5
    Thanks, sounds like what I have heard so far. But the dealer and the independent shop hasn't mentioned pulling the engine too. Hope not, sounds like a way to start a never ending chain of failures. Can't pay that bill!
    Curious question.. The other guy that was talking about a 2000 ,,, you said something about it cutting off with him...Does my 96 have the same thing that can do that??? Because it has been (as you say..Flamed out!) At different times. mostly while slowing or accelerating, BUT.. has done it sitting still in driveway?? Thought it could be a lose wire( had a turn signal module fixed not long before it started).... or thought maybe the Computor...So am I on the wrong track there? thanks rebeccat
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Well, from what I've read, the 2000 and maybe up into the 2001 models seemed to have an especially bad batch of crank sensors, with lots of failures.

    But, I am pretty sure earlier models of Northstars also had 2 crank sensors. 1995 and earlier had a totally different 'computer' system (ODBC I), and I'm not sure about these.
    Your 1996 is an ODBC II, and probably has 2.

    If a Northstar just 'drops dead', a crank sensor problem would be the first thing I would consider. Especially if NO error code was set. It seems these things shut stuff down so fast, it does not even get to set an error code.

    They are not especially expensive, and not too much problem to reach. They are both just above the oil filter adapter. I think oil needs drained, filter and adapter removed, and there they are.
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Except for the shift and speed sensor solonids, Northstar transmissions are relatively bulletproof.
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    ladymyladyladymylady Member Posts: 21
    Since they didnt give me the book when I purchased the car -2002 DHS Deville , I dont know what this means.

    The oil in the car was changed at 51,000 miles.Not due for another change until 54,000 miles.

    Car now has 52,000 miles on it. And the light is coming on saying: "Oil Life 87 % "

    I checked the oil and the stick is still at full mark.
    :confuse:
    What gives????
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    What light is coming on :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
    If your oil indicator is coming on when the engine is running, that may mean that the oil pressure is low.

    The oil life message is displayed in the driver information center. This indicates how much life is left, and you have used about 1/8 of the total life, so you can go about 6-7,000 more miles. However, if the oil pressure is low, your engine is probably near death.
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    ladymyladyladymylady Member Posts: 21
    Thanks sls002,

    The message is a constant on in the information center from the moment I turn the car on.
    So I hope it is only informing me of the life of the oil..although my other caddy had nothing like that. Some posts here have spoken of the need to top up oil before it's time for a change and I was wondering if that's what it meant...a need to top up...but the stick was still on full.

    How would you find out if the oil pressure is still good? what would I ask the mechanic to do?

    Thanks for the help.
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    04cad04cad Member Posts: 131
    You shouldn't need to add any oil if it is at the proper level on the dipstick. The 87% is calculated by the car diagnostics to tell you how much life you should have left before you need to change the oil. You should be able to clear this message by going into you DIC buttons and then it shouldn't come back until you want it to. Try a search on the net for something like mygm.com or mycadillac.com and you should be able to pull up an online manual. If you bought the car new go back to the dealer if you bought it from and individual you could probably buy one from Ebay. Good luck.
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    You need the Owner's Manual for your car. They are not very expensive. You can probably find one on eBay, or you can order a new one at www.helminc.com This company is the publisher/printer for owner and service manuals for most of the auto makers.

    You don't have a problem. The main thing is, you need to get your dash to display something other than your oil usage percent. You need to have an owner's manual to read so you will know how to do this. And there is all kind of other stuff in the owner's manual. When you get it, you should read it end to end at least once.

    Many, many, many of the questions asked on forums like this can be answered by reading a vehicle's owner manual.
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    As long as your oil light does not stay on after the engine is running, your oil pressure should be OK. Probably the message is on because the infomation center was set to display the oil life so it could be reset when the oil was changed. That means that it has been on display since then (the last 1000 miles or so).

    My 98 Oldsmobile Aurora (with a small northstar engine) had a trip computer/information display that could display the oil pressure. Unfortunately Cadillac's information display does not.
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    xeperxxeperx Member Posts: 7
    At what temperature should my car start yelling at me?

    I've been told that the Northstars are all over the map on coolant temps and I'm just not used to a guage jumping all over like this does. Still, people keep saying "oh, it's normal, they're just like that"

    But when should I start to freak and pull over? Will the car warn me before I ruin the head gasket or warp anything?
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    I'm not sure, but I think you will not get any warnings until about 245degrees or so.

    The car has a 197deg thermostat. In cooler weather, with the temp control set to Normal, it should maintain about 197 to 205 or so. The hotter the outside weather gets, the more it will struggle to maintain this level. Stop and go 100deg weather, I could see it hitting 230deg.

    Now here is the funny thing about Caddies. If you put the temp control to Econ (or you have AC problems and the computer will not let the AC run and will default to Econ, the computer will let the motor temp go up all the way to about 220deg before it turns the electric cooling fans on! How about that??? Otherwise, with AC on, the fans will run constantly at low speed and at about 205 it will kick them up to full speed. A Caddy will actually run cooler with the AC on rather than off!

    Ok, the other thing. If you load the engine, and this can be done with high speed driving or driving up a steep hill, and the temp in Caddy start to climb fast and overheats, you probably have the dreaded Northstar blown headgasket problem! You might have other problem - bad thermostat, the belt that drive water pump is slipping, radiator stopped up, etc, etc, but a Caddy that can be driven around at low speeds with no problem, but will overheat at speed or on hills - headgasket becomes a very possible reason.
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    xeperxxeperx Member Posts: 7
    Let's just say, for the sake of curiosity, I have a blown head-gasket. How much work [time + money] am I looking at and will it drive like it should [smooth, cool, like a Caddy should] once it's done?

    What exactly, if anything, would need replacing along side the repair?
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I can tell you how long it takes to get the engine/transmission out to work on the transmission. That was a full days work or so. I think they had the car overnight. I would think that the head gasket would require about the same amount of time. Depending on local rates for the techs, the cost is probably about $2000.

    My experience with my Seville was that the coolant temperature always ran at the center point (200 F), but in very hot (100 F) weather climbing a grade the temperature indicator might warm to 210F. My Aurora was different, with no radiator grill, it would run 220F on warm days in stop and go traffic.

    If the A/C compressor is running, then the cooling fans are on to cool the refrigerent, which will keep the engine coolant temperature down too. My SRX, not in the mountains, stayed right at the center mark even in 105F weather this summer. The interior stayed cool too, with the rear A/C fan running on a medium (2) speed. My SRX does have heavy duty cooling (perhaps extra fans?).
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    xeperxxeperx Member Posts: 7
    I just had a lengthy conversation with a Cadillac mechanic who says he's got 30 years experience. He said that based on my info it sounds more likely that the engine twisted and a bolt in the head tore loose. He said that this sort of thing was actually semi-common in the N* engines.

    Is this a heap of BS or is the guy telling the truth?
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Well, I think you somewhat miss-understood.

    What he probably said was due to expansion and contraction of the alumium motor and head of a Northstar under running and stopped conditions, the head bolts have become stressed, loosening these bolts. These are the bolts that hold the head to the motor, with the head gasket as the sealing between the two. When the bolts loosen, or thru other problems with the gasket seal, the exhaust pressure when a cylinder fires is blown into the water cooling passages between the head and motor (the gasket fails). This will cause massive overheating. (If you do not have overheating, water/steam coming out of fill tank, you may not have a gasket problem. Or, you might be in the early stages of gasket failure. A mechanic can test the coolant for combustion byproducts - if found this is gasket failure.)

    Most of the cost of repairing a Northstar head gasket is labor. The motor must be pulled to access the rear head. There is a 'kit' sold for the repair, a 'Timezert' kit. The head is removed, a jig bolted down on it for drilling alignment purposes, all the head bolts are drilled out oversized, they are rethreaded, a special Timesert insert is screwed in, then the head is reassembled to the motor with a new gasket and headbolts. Both heads should be done when the motor is out of the car.

    From what I've heard, cost is $2,000 - $3,000. The kit is not very expensive, less than $400, a few new gaskets, new headbolts. Most of the cost is labor, and finding a shop that is even experienced in doing this may be tough. The heads almost always are not harmed, and the motor does not have to be 'decked'.

    And yes, this happens to Northstars. And is the main reason I do not own a Cadillac. My wife loves them, but I do not want to own an older, out of warranty Cadillac where a head gasket repair would cost 20% or more of the value of the car.
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    xeperxxeperx Member Posts: 7
    It's in warranty, thank God, but is it going to drive like a Cadillac after this or will it just feel "off"?
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    From what I understand, a Timezerted motor has a very small change of having head gasket problems again.

    Now, as to how well a mechanic can do this job and re-assemble properly?????????
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    ladymyladyladymylady Member Posts: 21
    Well actually the oil light is not on, but the information center is telling me 87% and yes I do know how to change it to something else but turning the car on, that's what shows.....on top of this, now a light says "service engine"
    but the information center does not give me a reason that I would need service...damn, my old car I knew waht to do - thisd modern marvel, I have no idea. :confuse:
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    If the service engine light is on, there is a problem. While is may not be critical, the sooner you have it checked the better.
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    cdaleecdalee Member Posts: 1
    MY caddy over heated. i notice it said check coolant level but i had just put antifreeze in it about a week ago i checked it everything looked fine i drove for about 15 minutes and the temperture would not go down pass 215 eventually it began to go up quickly, then the temp reached 257 and idle engine, engine hot, coolant hot started flashing on my screen as soon as i made it to my house it started smoking when i looked under the hood i see that antifreeze had leaked but i dont know where it came from. i dont think it can be the thermostat because that was replaced about 4 months ago. does anyone know what may be wrong?
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    sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    A reasonable guess is that you have a coolant leak. It may just be the water pump...
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    xeperxxeperx Member Posts: 7
    Be careful and have it checked as soon as you can. This is EXACTLY what mine did and now I have a blown head gasket.
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    bepbep Member Posts: 1
    This is an 8 cylinder (not Northstar)with 42,000 miles. Since June it has not always been starting on the first try. After jiggling the gear shift, it would start up. Yesterday it would never start. It was towed to the dealer. Once it got there it started right up and again this morning. No faults found on the computer. They are trying other diagnostics. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Any thoughts/suggestions? Thanks.
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    ladymyladyladymylady Member Posts: 21
    You dont say what year the deville is....but on my old 93 deville I had that problem...and it turned out to be the alternator. Could that be it..? sometimes it would work and sometimes not...until one day it just gave up the ghost totally. :confuse:
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    If you have a 2002 Deville, you DO have a Northstar motor.

    Not much idea about starting problem, it could be several things.

    There is a 'neutral safety switch' located somewhere on the shift mechanism (jiggling the shift) that will only allow the vehicle to start in park or neutral.
    There is also a brake safety switch that will only allow it to start when your foot is on the brake.

    If either of these is failing, it could fail to start.

    A weak battery might not start, but after being juggled around recover enough to start.

    A positive or negative cable that has corrision might come and go.

    Intermittent failure in the ignition switch.

    Lots of things. When it comes and goes (unless it's a weak battery - this could be tested), it's tough to find electrical problems, when it is 'gone'.
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    tcacartcacar Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2002 Deville with North star 4.6L engine and about 80000 miles. The "Check Coolant Level" light stays on even though I have had the water pump replaced and re-checked and I make sure coolant level is correct in reservoir tank. The temperature gage indicates normal temperature during operation, so it not overheating. Just had it checked for a non-related issue and repair shop could not see any error codes or messages. Any ideas what this might be, or what to check?
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    jasper60103jasper60103 Member Posts: 22
    I hear the coolant level sensor is located inside the reservoir tank. Hopefully one of the experts will chime in on how to check it. Maybe just a loose connection?
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    onelordonelord Member Posts: 9
    Hey I was looking at getting a 2002 DTS 79000 miles for only 10900$ It is in perfect condition. The problem is that im in mich and the car is in wisc. 4.5 hr drive for me. Any suggestions? or info to share on the 2002 dts pros and cons. Thanks :)
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    tcacartcacar Member Posts: 2
    Thanks. That is my understanding also, and a faulty sensor occurred to me also. I do not know how to check that. An auto parts employee told me that he heard of a case where the same problem was solved by simply replacing the reservoir tank cap. That does not make sense to me because a dealer told me that the level sensor senses actual liquid level and not pressure.
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