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I've owned many kinds of cars: Olds, Pontiac, Honda, Toyota, VW, Ford (the Explorer was the one I couldn't wait to ditch), Chrysler and Saab. All have required some level of repair and most other brands (you can fill a book on Acura complaints) as well.
I CAN SAY THIS ABOUT SAAB: They have by far the BEST warranty, HANDS DOWN, I've ever experienced. It's never cost me a cent and they always provide a loaner or rental car at their cost. No hassle - unlike any other brand I've ever had: I had an air bag sensor not working properly and called the dealer. I live 150 miles away, and explained it would be a couple of weeks before I could get in. The dealership SENT A TRUCK, a rental car and hauled it in to be fixed. No charge, no hassle. Amazing.
re: saab reliability, we have had our share of annoyances during our 2.5+ years of ownership; fluid leaks, headlight bulbs, sid, heated rear seats, m/a sensor, but it hasn't been our most troublesome. dealer service has been below par, at times, but we always got a 9-5 loaner. never had a vehicle without any issues.
facing the buy/turn in next spring.
All I know is this -- my wife and I have owned over 6 cars together (9 counting company cars) -- we have never done anything but routine maintenance to ANY of them. We lease a Saab 95 and we are taking it to the dealership once every 3 months PLUS the routine maintenance (not acceptable). My issues may seem "nickel and dime" to some -- but my time is extremely valuable as I am a father and a business owner. I do not subject my wife to sitting around in a dirty service department waiting to hear her name called on a loud speaker. Not trying to start any arguments -- but the idea that these "nickel and dime" occurrences should just be considered a fact of life is absurd. Hey, I wish you all the luck in the world on your Saab -- and when you have to get your car tuned up, I would love to compare the cost to a Japanese vehicle. Oh yeah, I guess that will be coming soon as the manual states you need an official tune-up at 60k while Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, say you need to do it at 100k (only mention these brands at I know this for sure on this manufacturer) -- so I guess this make the TCO significantly less. So it would appear that the argument of these "nickel and dime" issues goes out the window when you take into account TCO.
I do not know how it is at other dealerships -- but when I want a loaner car they have an Enterprise Rental Service booth at the dealership. So when I bring in the car -- guess what, I get in-line and wait like all the other Saab owners. On one occassion it took 90 minutes to drop off the car, explain what is wrong, and then go through the Enterprise paperwork to actually get a loaner! Sorry I do not have this type of time on my hands. Also, I do not want to deal with learning about which bulbs to buy extra -- in case a bulb goes out again. This car is literally a laughing joke within my family -- and apparently down the street at one of my neighbors house.
Oh yeah -- a 4 year/50k limited warranty is actually the worst in its class -- I encourage you to go look for yourself. For instance, Lexus is a 4 year/60k limited warranty.
My wife and I could not be happier to be picking up our next car within the week.
Good Luck and I hope all you have much better luck than my family. But I have to say -- I chuckle when I hear someone complain about the cost associated with their vehicle and then in the same sentence brag about the car:-)
4 new computers,a new cooling fan that left me stranded in d.c. on my way to ct from fla.
and many other so called nickel and dime issues.
like blonw bulbs,locked out shifting gear,plug a/c water drains dropping a gallon of water under the front seats,and other such minor stuff,
including 4 blown tires 17 inchers.
anyhow i want to correct your statement about the lexus warranty...it is 70,000 miles on the power train as is infinity....
i am now shopping for a new car and have driven the new vw phaeton,mb500,lexus 430,bmw530, and every time a get off one of them and back on the saab,i am happy that i own the saab.....
(except for diving the new 530----this is a car ,period.nothing out there matches the fun this car gives. it is a 4 passanger sports car.and the new active steering is great. but...reliability ??????? )
so, the reason i still like the saab,check out the reliability on mb ,bmw an vw........and the prices being paid for those cars.
the lexus appears to be my next car but i am keeping the saab.....it is fun to drive......
but,you know why i take this atitude........
it is because i have owned a number of jaguars before,and as a jaguar owner who kept going back ,i must be a car masochist .
and i see the same thing with saab.......it is a sweedish jaguar........
in jaguar it is my opinion ,prior to ford,,,,,5 out of 7 were lemons..
after ford,maybe 4 out of 7.
and with saab ,i think we are going down the same route.
but,it is so much fun.......
by the way,one car that i drove twice already and it is an incredible car with the finest sound system --dvd--out there and a great navigation system ,a great ride,firm and secure and very sporty, the new acura tl.
ut not enough room inside since it is a repackaged
honda accord---but,super reliable.
I'm sorry for your experience. It happens sometimes. I have a Honda that's 6 months old and so far it's had more "issues" than our previous 3 Saabs combined. I know your frustration. I NEVER expected that from Honda but I absolutely realize that even Honda has a bad apple on occasion. Fortunately mine are mostly annoyance issues and not Mechanical so far.
Good Luck with the Lexus. I'm sure you'll be very happy.
Drew
Arrogance? Most people who pop for a new Saab are , as the Census Bureau would say, Managers, Professionals or Others. Not a few are business owners. I've never ever heard someone lump routine maintenance (i.e, oil changes) into why owning a particular car model was such a burden. Count yourself lucky that you aren't a teacher, cop, nurse, fireman, etc. whose hours are not as flexible as a busines owner and so routine maintenance like an oil change must be a hassle. But a hassle which anyone can minimize: drive the car to a JiffyLube in your jogging gear and run for 40 minutes while the underclass works on the business owners car.
Come on. Enjoy life. You apparently have done well in this world. You got to drive a Saab for a couple of years which in itself isn't a bad thing. You didn't like the ownership experience, so move on.
well ,my dealer ,went all the way for me . he inspected every nook and cranny including the steering rack bellows......too make the story short.....he found out from saab that all 2000 9.5 utilize a cover for the fluid that has a tiny hole in it.
according to saab ,the liquid vaporizes and travels out of this hole thus,the low fluid levels at times.........
my car is going on 70,000 miles now .
because i am going into another car ,not a saab, i plan to kep the saab ,and maybe put less miles per year on it.will keep it for winter travel mostly.
it is still a lot of fun
Every time I went in for service, I got the sense that Saab owners such as myself were brainwashed into thinking that these were normal to all cars. Frankly, I had better things to do with my time, then hang around a service area with a fairly new car.
Prior to the last repair, we were very seriously considering a 9-5 wagon. After getting it again, we went "boring" and bought a Honda Pilot instead. I'm sure the newer 9-5's are more reliable, but we won't know til 4 years out. I didn't feel like finding out first hand.
Oh, and that same service writer said to avoid the V-6, too.
Basically I will say it again. One of the best days of my life was when I gave back my SAAB 95.
The only reason people lease SAABS are the great lease rates. The only thing worse than the cars
are SAABs service department.
DO NOT GET BAITED BY A GREAT LEASE DEAL
With regard to subsidized lease deals, the SAAB ones always seemed to me to be uniquely ideal for a SAAB buyer for lots of reasons. First,in leasing you are buying an option to buy at the end of the lease. So, if you like the car or if it is worth more than someone thought it would be three years previous you can buy the car. This option to buy is probably most important on a car you aren't reallly sure about and/or is a bit out of the mainstream. Secondly, you get to walk away in three years with no hassle. Thirdly, I suspect that with a leased vehicle you might have more ammunition if things went wrong. You could ask for the leasing company to negotiate with SAAB, you could ask for a penalty-less early termination if you leased another GM car, etc. etc. In other words you could drag in a third party into the discussion.
So, bring on the great lease deals. Let me drive a 40K Aero for $395 (just kidding) a month. Let me bring it back in disgust in three years if I want to. Let me keep it if SAAB turns around and Lutz improves the resale. Let me bring the leasing company to the table if the thing is junk. Despite the boilerplate I'll bet that you could get a leasing company to put some pressure on the manufactuer. ( For what it is worth, I write this as one who has never leased anything.)
CHIC345 - $15.6 is an excellent price for that car. Since its not being sold by a Saab dealer its not CPO and that's one reason the price is good.
The consensus on V6 reliability is that its an excellent engine with very few problems. There are fewer V6 9-5's on the road than the 4 cylinder models but statistically it's looking like the V6 is every bit as reliable as the 4 cyl if not better. Use a full synthetic oil and change it every 5000-6000 miles. Don't go past 7500 miles between oil changes on the V6.
Write down the VIN and contact or visit your Saab dealer and see if they can find any service records. Things like spark plugs, transmission fluid, and coolant need to be replaced at 30K along with the normal oil change and air filter replacement. IOW, try to find out if the 30K service was done. If not that'll run you $300-500 and should not be ignored.
While you're at the dealer ask about buying an extended warranty. It might be worth the expense if only to mitigate potential expensive repair costs down the road. Saab parts are not cheap nor widely available and that makes some repairs rather pricey.
Like most European cars, Saabs are not rolling appliances. They need regular maintenance, a dose of TLC occassionally, and an owner who appreciates the driving & ownership experience. There is hardly a safer car on the road than a 9-5. And I think Saab is probably the last automaker selling a car with some real personality and character. If these things appeal to you, you'll love the 9-5. If not, there are other fine cars out there to own.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!!!
But the reason for my response: I too went boring with my work vehicle, a Honda Pilot. I got everything including leather and a DVD system i Hate. Don't get your hopes up too much here. The Pilot ain't all that great lemme tell you. It most definately does not have the expect build quality from Honda. It's just been.. "okay". What a shame. It is a grea highway vehicle though.
Drew
Thanx,
If you're asking about modding your current headlights to HID technology, I suppose its possible but I haven't read anything about the upgrade.
Brighter replacement bulbs are available but not easy to find in H7. Search online resources for best selection.
I own a 1999 Saab 9-5 SE 3.0 V6. At 64000 miles the timing belt was replaced by my local dealership. Now, at 75000 miles, the belt tensioner failed and caused major damage to the engine. The dealership did not inform me about the risks not replacing the tensioner. He did say, at the time of service there was no reason for it to be replaced. I am rather dissapointed that a $200 item was not replaced by default when renewing the timing belt. I am now faced with repair costs of over $5000 (plus rental car costs). I bought this car for my family after hearing so many positive comments on the reliability of Saab vehicles. I took care of all the service intervals recommended by Saab. This incident seems rather uncommon - but shows rather serious safety implications.
If anybody has any tips on how/if to approach Saab, please let me know!
thanks,
Brenda
While you are waiting for some comments, you'll be interested in paging back through some of the previous messages here. You can use the links on the page bar and/or the Search This Discussion feature. There is lots of good information here!
Good luck - feel free to email me if I can help you find anything here in the Town Hall.
I've had 2 Saabs and like them a lot. I prefer the auto to the stick for congested freeway driving. Consumer Reports recommends the 9-5 for reliability; some authorities point out that the current 9-5, as good as it is, is gradually becoming obsolete in comparison with new stars like the Acura TL or the excellent but overpriced BMWs.
I took my 2001 9-5 SE V6 (lease ends in 3 mo.) in for service today and had a chance to demo the 2004 9-5 Arc and Aero sedans. My local SoCal dealer is discounting them $7000 to $8000 right now with sale prices clearly posted. Prices exclude leases. Apparently there are some massive factory-to-dealer incentives. Saab is also well known for irresistible lease deals; just make sure you get the national program pricing or better. Leasing is a good option for someone who might be on the fence about keeping the car long term. Note that Saab includes the required services at 10K, 20K and 30K miles in the price of the car; I do recommend interval oil changes every 5K.
The Arc is a nice, well-appointed and competent sedan; the Aero really rocks. Either one would be a treat for someone who has driven an American-made car. I loved the ventilated seats! Pricey option at $1000. OnStar is now optional on the Arc, standard on the Aero. (I never used mine at all.)
Re: engines: I prefer the smooth authority of the V6 but it is now discontinued. The 4-cyl turbo engine is very reliable and economical. A bit of turbo lag and slightly jerky shifting on the Arc, less so on the Aero. Power to spare in either case (220 vs 250 HP).
I'm trying to decide whether to lease an '04 Saab or buy the TL. Saabs depreciate more but if you are starting out with a whopping discount and planning to keep the car a long time, or if you lease, depreciation is less of an issue. Best of luck!
P.S. Saab participates in the GM Supplier Discount program; find out from your company's HR department or www.gmsupplierdiscount.com if you qualify. It's free money that's good for an extra discount over and above what I mentioned above. (The amount of the extra discount is the difference between MSRP and invoice--usually $2500-3000.) Makes it very hard to shell out MSRP for an Acura when you could buy a Saab for thousands less than invoice!!
If anyone out there can steer me to a better deal in NJ, I would appreciate it. Too bad I don't live near Santa Ana. I'd be driving a Saab right now.
Eitan56, sure a residual of 46% isn't great but SAAB's is nowhere near that low if figured from transaction price. No one pays anywhere near MSRP on a SAAB. To compare residuals between comparable European sedans lets compare depreciation after the usual and customary sale price. Folks claim that BMW has a high residual and a low depreication but thats because they pay darn near close to list. The only reason SAAB has a low residual and high depreciation is the fictitious list that they discount by 8K to 9K every day, all day. SAAB needs to add content (AWD, 5 speed auto--makes sense with the 4 banger to have more selection, xenons across the line,throw another turbo on the Aero engine, etc.) or lower the MSRP. The market just isn't buying at any higher than list less 8K.
03oddity, yeh, the 17" wheels don't cut it and bend easily in winter pot holes, and the tires can be hard to find (European Car tested an Aero and blew a tire. The had to FLY in a tire from Tire Rack because no one stocked the particular tire/size). But, they are a tentative step toward something good. I'd like to see more performance stuff in the Aero to really differentiate it from other models and to go after the Ultimate Driving Car crowd.
Personally, I'd think it would be a hoot to get a good deal on a car in California, fly out to pick it up and 'road trip' home in a new 9-5!!! I've driven ours straight thru from Colorado to Illinois a couple times now and am amazed how comfortable the car is, even after 16 hours on the road.
If any of Saabers in north NJ can direct me to a good deal, you'll be my hero.
On a 36 mo. lease, the $5K does not apply. Payments would have been about $200/mo higher than my current 2001 9-5 V6 SE lease (sweet deal: $409/mo plus tax, 15K miles/year, no cap cost reduction, residual $18121). I really don't want to buy a new car that is so many years into its product cycle; that lease makes absolutely no sense financially. Saab Finance will not deal on the 2001 buyout (I'd pay $15 or 16K max).
Looks like it will be a TL for me.
Now to the look of the 17" wheels on the Aero. That is part of the Aero sporty look. In no way is it racer or ricey, its very understated. The wheels are no different than the look on the BMW 5 series with sport package. You like what you like, but IMHO you would be worse off with the ARC wheels. The 17" are pretty sturdy, but if you want more cushion you can get replacement Pilot Sports or comparable Bridgestone 730's /950's or even SO3's with 50 series profile.
As to perforamnce, the Aero is quicker, faster, firmer damped springs, better seats and gets pretty close in MPG to the new ARC. The 2003 Aero had better gas mileage than the old V6 ARC. The sport mode and Sentronic paddle shifters work very well. The brakes are awesome. I plan to add some Goodridge SS brake lines at some point and replace worn pads with Pagid pads when the time comes for a brake repair. The only other thing I might add is stiffer springs for really spirited driving thru the canyons. But let's be clear the Aero wagon handles as well or better than the Audi A6 Wagons, BMW 5 wagons and the M-Benz wagons.
As to reliability, not one issue. The only issue is resale - depreciation. If you turn over cars quickly then a lease is the way to go. We tend to keep ours for a while so no worries.
The ARC is nice but the Aero is worth it if spirited / enthusiast driving feel is high on your list.
If there are any questions or comments about this policy, feel free to email either me or our Community Manager, Sylvia - both of us may reached using our first names AT edmunds.com.
Thanks!
I absolutely love my car, even after attending an auto show last week/getting some seat time in a few competitive models. Probably the only thing that could lure me out of my 9-5 would be a fire sale on an FX35. I even talked 3 of my friends and co-workers into buying Saabs since I got mine.
Some items which may wear out earlier than you expect include the brakes (I now need new ones @ 48k miles), headlights & foglights. While the basic 48month/50k warranty covers a lot of wear items, I don't know if this will be the case on your extended warranty.
Good luck on your decision!
I think if I had an Aero I'd ditch the 17" wheels come December 1 and install a Tire Rack/Tires Direct winter package with 16 inch rims and say Artic Alpins. That would improve the ride on the winter pot holes while giving you better traction. Maybe come Spring I'd put on 50 or 55 aspect tires on the 17" wheels and forget about the 45's in New England. Yes, no?
Anybody think that's normal? I did not contact Saab Customer Service to ask for reimbursement for the rotors (others have commented on how unhelpful they are) but perhaps I should.
Pads, understandable I guess. Headlights, not so understandable but at least not too expensive (on the 3rd set now). But rotors??
P.S. I saw the internal cost sheet, rotors are $108 to the dealer, twice that to the customer.