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Saab 9-5 Sedan

L8_ApexL8_Apex Posts: 187
Welcome to the continuation of the Saab 9-5 Part
6-6
topic. Those of you joining us from that topic
are welcome to continue your discussion.

If you're new to this topic, you may want to
follow the above link for additional archived
posts.

Thanks,

L8_Apex
Sedans Host
Tagged:
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Comments

  • Drew - I saw a 9000 Aero on a dealer's lot recently - Believe it was a '97, and it had a very wide seat with what looked like excellent lateral support even up to the shoulders - the most unusual looking seat that I've ever seen in a car.

    More comments about my '00 V6 wagon. I had test driven the V6 before purchase, but when I picked it up, I immediately had to drive it several hundred miles for a trip. I noticed right away that at idele, it seemed unusually loud, but ever since that first day, it has never seemed loud again, and I sitch in and out of a couple of different cars regularly.

    I agree with bretfraz that the torque band is very useable. When cruising on the highway whatever speed I wish to go just seems to already be in place before I make the effort. The acceleration at higher speeds seems relatively effortless.

    Recently, I've been considering purchasing another car to replace my '87 Volvo 740 wagon (166,000 miles and absoltuely reliable - a tank) with something more modern, so I have spent time looking at the S80 again and drove the 528i.

    My opinion is that I'd be tempted to get another 9-5, though some other part of my brain says to have 2 DIFFERENT cars. Well, my current wagon and maybe an Aero sedan. My observations are that I find the interior appearance to be superior. The instrument locations and tactile response is pleasing. The S80 seems bland, and to me the straigt interior lines of the BMW dash with the red displays seems utilitarian. Plus no in-dash cd player. The 528 is quiet and has excellent road manners, though in a way it is too quiet - can't really hear the engine, and that engine is much more pleasing in the 328i. The 528i just doen't have enough ooomph, though I look at the speedo and sure 'nuff I am moving right along. I would think the 540i would be more satisfying, but then the price - OUCH!

    Frankly I also think the Saab back seat comfort is the best of these vehicles, and this is an area where I think the wagon beats the sedan - the backseat headrests in the wagon are useful and enhance seating comfort, whereas to actually rest my head on the sedans headrests means staring more up than straight - at least for my spine's eccentricities.

    I'm not actually going to purchase another car right now, but I think I'd get a red or silver V6 or Aero sedan.

    (I've got the sun green wagon).
  • Bretfraz - I agree the MXV4's are fine for most people, including me, and are good touring tires. However, I was in Oregon on a moutain highway during heavy rain. The asphalt was a smooth finish and was deeply rutted where most people's tires track in the lane. The rain runoff was poring straight down the road in these tire ruts upon which I was traveling Water was a couple 2 to 3 inches, and the MXV4 did not make me feel out of control, but neither did they cut that water like a knife.

    I drove away feeling like if I had to do that regularly, I'd get different tires. Was in America's Discount Tire store recently and disussed this when they recommended Michelin Pilots, which a few days later I noticed were fitted to 3 9-5 Aero sedans on a dealer's lot.

    Interesting.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Yes - the seats in the previous Aero were AWESOME! I've spend many hours in those seats and they are definately the most comfortable ever. That is why I am so dissapointed in Saab for not having a design that good available anymore.

    Interesting comment on the Pilots. I've been satisfied with the MXV4's but I will consider the Pilots if I ever need to replace the tires.

    Drew
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Interesting last post. I had forgotten many of those comments made. I've been trying to avoid the confrontations here for the last several weeks and only commenting on occasion when I'm addressed directly but that was an interesting perspective.

    Now that I've spoken up, I'll be expecting another attack against me. I'll try to refrain from futher comment though. Hard as it will be.

    Drew
  • The Michelins are fine on my 9-5's. I have the Pilots on my convertible SE and they are a 'great' touring/performance tire. They don't last as long because of the composition of the tire but oh well it is only money.

    The seats - - I am not overly sensitive in this area but I think the seats are easy to get into, sit in and adjust and they are very comfortable for me. I am just under 6 foot so that might have impact on my comfort perception. I did like my previous aero seats because they looked interesting in design and there was more a sense of lateral support. If Aero seats were available I hope they don't do two tone or leather and suede mixed. The new Audi seats that are available like that look a bit tacky and flashy. Also I don't know if Saab has concerns with certain seat designs and the presence of side airbags in the seats.

    Also just as an FYI the back seat headrests on the sedan do adjust fore and aft. I don't think most people realize that when they pull them up and they snap into the first position. Push the button in and you can adjust them further forward to your liking.

    I have noticed that I prefer 89 octane over 93 or 94 for the V6. My switch was based on input from my service manager/tech. I noted that the tone of the car under acceleration changes and there is no detectable difference in performance.



    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • Glad to see the change in gas releaved you of the sulfur problem. (That doesn't sound good but you know what I mean.) Try 89 octane and let me know what you think too.

    Also I am please to hear your car is perfect and the ACC is a non-issue. Gee maybe you have a Troll under the hood. ;-)

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • smu1976smu1976 Posts: 110
    I used to enjoy this site. I would learn interesting things about my car (good and bad)but the site has been overtaken by Saaber who post nearly 30% of all post. I wish the host could help us here, for this is out of control, and its not constructive. Say your peace, sure thats acceptable and the American way, but let the buyer scroll up and down. You don't need to repeat the same things everyday posting 30% of the threads. To bully the site is not acceptable to me. I will be in a read only mode, skipping any "Saaber" messages, so I will not clutter the board also, but this needs to be addressed by the host and Edmunds.
  • As an FYI -

    The SAAB USA site has been updated for the 2001 model year. SAAB USA has also launched the SAAB Pacific Coast Adventure - details can be found on the SAAB USA homepage.

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs

    http://www.saabusa.com
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    I asked you to post a single post where I exhaggerated any of the items in your previous post. Instead, you took bits and pieces of my previous posts (mostly out of context) to claim that I also compared Saab to Hitler. Other than finding that comment generally offensive to everyone, I think that you have made your point that you are out to smear anyone who says anything negative about the car.

    Think about it, I generally post a lot of open and honest (and negative) comments about my 9-5, and you must have spent hours creating your last long post to try to discredit me. Many of your posts taken from me say nothing in the context that you listed them, and you appear to have intentionally taken most of them (which in most cases were responses to the discrediting personal attacks) out of context to try to continue the discrediting campaign.

    As I said, the Host has the authority to "disinvite" anyone who is being disruptive to this group. I would think carefully about making another negative personal attack in violation of the Edmunds terms of service. As for making negative comments about the 9-5, although you and others here find those comments "disruptive" to YOUR personal saablover tastes, the comments are accurate and facilitate a discussion of both sides of the saab story for prospective customers.
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    Thanks for the comments on the octane (using 89 versus 93) for the V6 which should be helpful for everyone. I will try it to see if it gives me a more likable tone. In addition, it will save money.
  • Saaber - - depending on your fuel level when you re-fill you might need to got through a tank or two before you note the difference. Best to wait till you tank is near empty before re-filling with the 89 to observe the greatest affect in the least amount of time.

    Dave Kovacs
  • rtd1rtd1 Posts: 22
    I'll be interested to see what the results of dropping the octane rating will be--do report back. I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be a drop in either performance or mileage.

    While I don't have the numbers in front of me, I recall that the manual has different minimum octane recommendations for the LPT 4 and 6, with the V6's being higher. (My book doesn't cover the Aero.)

    I had assumed the difference was because of the V6's slightly higher compression ratio, but maybe it's something else (emission specs?). The T7 system will protect the engine from any harm due to detonation, so we could probably get away with running Coleman fuel ;-) IIRC the LPT turbo doesn't even have a bypass or wastegate, so detonation protection is left to retarding spark timing, which T7 can perform instantaneously in individual cylinders.

    In the HPT APC cars, the octane rating was effectively a "dial-a-boost" system. Higher octane gas yielded higher boost. I'll bet it's still that way with the 9-5 Aero.
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    The new CU reports on many of the Luxury models. It rates the Audi A6 tops on the list. It does not give the S80 very good marks for reliability, although the S80 is placed in the middle. The 9-5 is not listed on the list (probably due to sales volume).

    From the ealier chatter here by many, it sounds like the A6 with a upgraded engine is a good way to go in the future. The A6 model that CU tested was $38,000 but I do not think that it had the upgrated engine. How does the "regular" A6 engine compare to the 9-5 V6 in horsepower and torque?
  • L8_ApexL8_Apex Posts: 187
    this topic is off to a decent start with the exception of one post consisting of nothing related to the car but a sarcastic commentary about another guests posts.

    The outspoken critic(s) here do provide informative feedback. In some topics, the dissatisfied owners offer nothing more than Brand-X sucks or name-calling towards those who don't go dump their sure-to-be-lemon right away. Believe, I've seen it all... This topic is fortunate enough to have, for the most part, reasonable guests. Some, at times, have taken it a little too far...

    As I've said in the past, critical feedback is welcome with discretion. Why do I need to say this about critical feedback and not positive advice? Well... These make-exclusive forums tend to attract a majority of satisfied owners or potential owners. Many of the owners are aware of problems areas and will address them with new guests in a more or less objective fashion. It's not necessary to bombard each new guest with a checklist of problem areas.

    Just the same, critical feedback offered with *discretion* is welcome. As long as that is the case, personal attacks toward these individuals will not be tolerated.

    Thanks,

    L8_Apex
    Sedans Host
  • bretfrazbretfraz Posts: 2,021
    There is actually quite a difference between the Michelin's Pilot and their Energy MXV4 Plus tires.

    The MXV4's are an excellent "luxury" touring tire. It's perfect for cars like Lexus, M-B, Lincoln, Cadillac, Volvo, etc. Its tread design provides a very quiet highway ride with good traction in typical "4-season" driving conditions. If you have a luxury foreign sedan and want a tire that can be used year 'round for most all conditions, the MXV4 is ideal. I can't think of a better tire; comparable but not better.

    The Pilot series are all-season performance tires. Much stronger construction especially in the sidewalls. Not as quiet, smooth, or long-lasting as the MXV4 but better performance. Ideal for Saab, BMW, Infiniti, or other cars that are considered performance-oriented. You can run them in winter but they won't work as good as a typical touring tire. Also expensive to replace. A Pilot XGTV4 or Z4 is perfect for the owner that wants better handling from his 9-5 regardless of engine. Some Infiniti Q45 lovers I know exclusively use the XGTV4 as its the only tire that will stay round and maintain steering quality on the Q45; a notorious tire killer. These guys have ditched other brands by 10K because those tires are out of alignment, flat spotted, or showing considerable wear. On another car those other brands would be fine but not on a Q45. This is probably not the case on a 9-5 but something to consider when buying new tires.
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    Regarding post #17:

    Let me echo bretfraz's sentiment here. 3 of my last 4 cars came with Z-rated Michelin Pilots and they are great tires. However, they do wear out quickly on quick cars (mine were all high-pressure turbo Volvos which shred tires in no time at all if you have a heavy foot) and they can be very expensive to replace. I also used Pirelli P-Zeros as a replacement tire and by comparison they weren't as sure footed in wet conditions (was living in Boston at the time) but did seem to last a bit longer. My Pilots did so well that I managed to get by without Winter tires for years in Boston with absolutely no problems at all (of course FWD and traction control helped a lot). I also tried Dunlop SP 8000s if I recall correctly, but dumped them after a few days as they were loud and didn't handle crisply in the corners.

    There are lots of great choices out there and some really are in the same ball park for less money (e.g., Nittos). Also, if money is no object, you might want to look at the new Michelin Pilot Sport tires. These are Michelin's new flagship max performance tires designed for wet and dry conditions. You can find out more information and buy the tire of your choice through sites like www.tirerack.com (very informative and well designed site for a firm with a great reputation for mail order tires or www.discounttire.com (probably the best free replacement tire guarantee around).

    Good luck.

    -rdo
    [email protected]
  • The Audi 2.8 is rated at 200 hp and 207 ft lbs torque. The Audi A6 2.8 is by no means a thriller to drive. I think my Swedish coffee system brews a cup of coffee faster than the 0-60 on the 2.8. It is somewhere around 8.8 to 9 secs. The Audi 2.7T is a much better option.

    Quattro is a great option on the 2.8 and it is standard on the 2.7T.

    To me, the Audi A6 is not an attractive car from the back end. I always think of the Impala cop car when I see the Audi from the back.

    Also having owned Audi's in the past I do believe that the A6 has lost some of its uniqueness. I think it started with my A4. This movement to the more traditional benchmark has resulted in larger sales. However that is probably why I continue to wish that SAAB not become a mass appeal car.

    Also - that whole Audi atmosphere concept is a bit of an overkill. It has resulted in a silver exterior car only being available with the blackest of graphite leather interiors (even the carpets are almost black). Please - keep the wood choices and door panel mixes simple and make the darn silver car available with a platinum gray interior.

    There is an Audi board available on Edmunds specific to the Audi A6 2.8 and Saab 9-5. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=Sedans&f=0&t=3975&q=0- Unfortunately there is a poor chap in that forum who went from a Saab to an Audi but feels the Audi doesn't have the soul of Saab. Probably because Audi doesn't have those sneaky trolls in the car!!! ;-)

    It is interesting that Audi does not offer comparisons to the Saab 9-5 on its site. The Saab USA site does provide comparisons to the Audi for those who are interested.

    However, I do think the Audi is probably more suited to the average person looking for a luxury European car.

    Regards

    Dave Kovacs
  • saabeesaabee Posts: 23
    My 2000 Aero had the same problem. I always use 93 octane, additionally, I tried switching brands, that didn't help. When my ECU was replaced the sulfur smell disappeared.
  • Haven't visited the site in a while. Started with topic 3790 and have now caught up a bit. Noticed that no one responded to individual who asked about integrated key fob. I own a '99 9-5 and currently have the huge key/automatic opener that makes people stare at pockets wondering what that is and am also interested in knowing whether the newer flat automatic openers can be used on the '99 9-5 and if so, whether anyone knows how much they are.

    Also, car has about 15,000 miles on it and I've noticed lately that idle sometimes races, slows down, and races again when I'm sitting at a red light shortly after a "cold" start (it's not cold here yet). Dealer said to check and see if tach also goes up coincident with the racing. Why did dealer ask me that? What difference does it make? Car's idle didn't used to vary so much. Any ideas why it could be doing so now?

    Thanks guys,
    Girl With Saab
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    I read last week that for 2001 Saab will have a key with the remote features built into it like some others are now offering. That should take care if the complaints in the future.

    Have not heard any news about the NHSTA forcing them to replace the current ones in the field for Safety reasons. :) Maybe we could start a campaign.

    Drew
  • Hi,

    You will be able to replace your key and seperate fob for a new integrated fob unit. The 'fobulous' keys are available NOW through your dealer. Unfortunately I have not asked the price. I would assume around $100 to $150. Even the traditional replacement keys are expensive because of the anti-theft circuitry built into the actual key.


    Have you received a campaign letter for the ecu/ecm replacement? I believe this might take care of your idle issue. Although I must say the question from the service manager is odd. What engine do you have?

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    I've lost our extra key and fob. Is the $100- $150 price for the new fob only? I'm curious what the replacement key is going to run me. I'm sure I won't be happy. I'm equally sure that if I pay to have it replaced the lost one will turn up.

    Drew
  • saabeesaabee Posts: 23
    I recently saw FOB for 2001 9-5 wagon, all buttons are intergrated in head of key. Service manager stated if I wanted to replace the FOB for my 2000 Aero the new FOB would be in the $200 range.
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    I guess the theory is that saab can make a product that people complain about, and then overcharge the existing customer for the replacement. Maybe that will help them to cut into their losses.
    I state this honestly, and hopefully speaking for all that $200 is an incredible price to pay for an item that obviously does not cost $200 to make. True, the existing customer does not have to buy the overpriced product, but this is just another piece of the "saab" customer loyalty puzzle to put together.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Probably - but as usual your seeing it as "Saab" cheating or an opportunity to complain about Saab.

    A replacement key for my new Montero is $150. What you don't understand is that the new keys with theift protection chips are expensive to replace. That's without even considering the cost of the remote electronics.

    Last three cars I've purchased were: Chysler MiniV, Saab 9-5, Dodge Durango and now a Mitsu Montero. In ALL 4 cases I was warned by the dealer to be careful not to lose a key because they are extrememly expensive to replace now. The days of running down to the local hardware store to cut a new key is over for MOST vehicles. But the deception continues. Lets inform consumers - Saab is the only company ripping us off on this! :) Forget the facts.

    Drew
  • rtd1rtd1 Posts: 22
    Quite an array of price quotes on TSN about this item. One lister was quoted less than $20 each for the key and head (which are evidently separate catalog items). I don't recall whether he said what the required programming would cost.

    This is clearly one of those items subject to massive dealer markup. If you're lucky enough to live in an area w/ multiple dealers, it's a very good idea to shop around.

    Where the cost gets gruesome is when you're stuck w/o a key or fob. There's no way for the dealer to clone an existing one, so they have to start from scratch. There's a semi-famous story about a Camry owner who lost both key-transmitter sets and was on the hook for $2400 as a result. Could a Saab be much less?

    One thing to remember--always carry an extra key when you're on a trip, in case you lose your main key and transmitter (and don't keep it in your luggage, either).
  • saabeesaabee Posts: 23
    Just got off the phone with the parts manager at my dealership. He stated the cost of the FOB is $140 plus the cost to program it, total cost around $175. Here's the drawback, he states Saab has told him that you must be within 2-3 feet of the car for it to work. So at least initially, the activation distance of the old FOB is superior to the new FOB. If anyone has heard otherwise, let me know.
  • Saaber - I agree that $200 is basically a major markup. Consider that you can get a radio (meaning the technology for radio transmission) for less than $10. The cheapest computers are now only a few hundred dollars, and the key and FOB performs only a couple of tasks. My brother works in electronic circuit board manufacturing and assures me the parts are cheap.

    But, Drew, I agree this is not a Saab-only ripoff. It is a ripoff by all of the dealers/manufacturers who charge extravagant prices for a replacement key/FOB. How can they get away with it? The law of supply and demand. They are the only suppliers. If there was an open market with every corner store able to sell you one of these, then they would not be $200.

    My, I think the current fat FOB makes it more difficult to lose. I have always wondered about it's design though. Ergonomic? Not really, with the buttons on the top edge, it seems it would want to flop over as I am pressing one.

    My '99 Chevy Silverado has a much less conspicuous flat FOB. Now, my question - I have to press three buttons to unlock all doors and the wagon liftgate. The door button twice and the rear hatch once. Is there an alternative?
  • I believe part of the expense of the key is not just the actual item. There are other related costs for data services that go along with the unique characteristics of the key type.

    I personally feel that $150 - $175 is really no big deal if the current key fob is a significant enough issue for the user.

    I recall reading that these type of keys make it very difficult for the car to be stolen so I see it as a means of protecting your investment.

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    I think the price is too high but good point about the stolen car issue. One thing to remember or know if your insurance company isn't rating you properly, a vehilce with an electronic dissabling feature qualifies for a 20% discount on your rate. At least according to my insurance company. Other company's may have different policies.

    I had to check out which technology Mitsu was using before they qouted me a rate on the Montero. I qualified for the discount. Hmm, I still wonder why my rate is soo high though. Bottom line is that the key may be costly but the insurance saving more than off-sets the higher cost.

    Drew
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    At least the old key probably floats. If I am ever out at sea and the key falls into the water. . .

    Drew, nice repeats of your personal attacks again. Are you going to keep that up, even after the host told you to quit? There are those who do not always agree with your views, and they have a right to be heard as well. I guess you just can't stop the personal attacks because you are afraid that you will lose your own purpose if you must rely strictly on comments about the 9-5.

    Anyway, I read a review of the new Lexus I model in Car and Driver. It's called the anti-BMW car, because it was developed to compete with the BMW 3-series, but it is supposedly nothing like the BMW in feel or in handling (or internal structure except for the rear wheel drive).
    It looks a lot like the 9-5 from the side and back. Although it looks smaller than a lexus GS model, it seems to be as big as a 9-5 (although that may just be the looks). Car and Driver gave it great marks stating that it has Lexus quality with a sporty feel. It also has a very quick 0-60 speed and fully loaded, it is about $35,000 MSRP. Base is around $31,000 MSRP.
    I wonder if this model is worthy of saab 9-5 discussion as a new competitor to the field to the 9-5. I have no question that BMW is not happy with the entry.
  • Dave Kovacs: I have a 4 cyl 2.3L engine in my '99 9-5 that is idling with surges. I have now noticed that the tach barely moves while this is occurring. Yes, I have received notice of the recall but am unsure what the repair will affect. Can you explain?

    Sherndon: I have not found another way to open my entire car without 3 button hits. I have noticed, however, that if you hit the door button the 2nd time right after hitting it the 1st time, you only get one set of beeps and all 4 doors unlock!

    Thanks for the info, guys, on the key fob. I guess I have to think about having an automatic opener only work within a range of 2-3 feet of my car is okay or not. It's probably safer in a way (thinking of being parked in a shopping mall) than opening it from 10 feet away...

    Ciao for now.
  • Dleesac - The re-call most likely will address the issue since the ecu is definately related to idle etc. I would confirm the fix after the ecu replacement. Go on a test drive with the service manager after the fix to make sure it is corrected.

    Also in regards to the beeps etc - -they are programmable by the service department for loudness, repeat number and mute.

    Saaber- - I did see the Lexus 'thing'. I saw it in bright yellow and it in my perspective was really ugly. Actually, I think it is the ugliest design ever to come out of Lexus. The lights in the rear look like they came out of design shop catering to after market gangsters who modified the rear brake lights to look white.

    The car is definately smaller looking in person compared to the Saab 9-5.

    The 3 series looks far more attractive unless your preference is for cars that have the wiper blades in colors to contrast with the car.
    I am talking way too flashy and tacky. It does not look refined. It does have a very strong Japanese style influence to it - - I see that overall look in Japan often - I get there every few months and I can see the design origins in their non-export cars.

    Insofar as comparisons to Saab - - I would match it up with the 9-3 Viggen in one of the bolder colors available from Saab.

    The Saab 9-5 is not aiming at that market - -

    Also - - I thought some of the first ads for that Lexus were very irresponsible. They showed them being driven in very un-safe manners through tight streets etc while relating to a 'live dangerously' type metaphor. Please are there not enought reckless people on the road already - -

    Needless to say the car will sell well - - but I think that is more a reflection of the poor state of values in the U.S. than anything else.

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    I agree that I did not like the taillights very much. They look like the new Maxima SE lights. Cheesy. The general shape seems attractive to me from the side, but a "yellow" model in any car also seems cheesy. It's really hard to tell which market the 9-5 is in sometimes because they advertise it as a sporty luxury car, and they give it a luxury car price.

    Thankt RTD for the size info. Remember, its not the size of the wave... (just joking). I have always thought of the 9-5 as a medium size car (like the IS), but yet, when you see the actual measurements, it is really a much larger car. I guess I knew this from my garage spacing and the huge trunk space for my golf club carry case, but the 9-5 still seems to look smaller to me. In my opinion that is actually a positive thing for the 9-5.
  • Saaber brings up an interesting point regarding how a car is sized. The length of the car typically doesn't seem to be a factor. I believe it has more to do with volume for passengers and cargo. Yet there seems to be a big range in what a mid size car means. The old 9000 was actually classified at the time as a large car.

    I think it is hard to classify the Saab 9-5 into a pre-defined bucket. In many ways is in a category somewhat on its own. I have seen it classified as entry level luxury, luxury, a mid size sedan, sport sedan, luxury sport sedan etc.

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • bretfrazbretfraz Posts: 2,021
    Gotta jump in here, too. Somehow we need to find or recruit a Saab dealer that will sell us parts at a discount. This is pretty common in various car clubs. For example, the Yahoo Infiniti Owners Club is managed by the Wholesale Parts Manager at Scottsdale Infiniti. He offers club members 25% off list for any part. That may not sound like a big discount but he told us most dealers markup prices OVER list. They pay cost, then take list and pile on the profit. So a 25% discount can end up being 50% off your local dealers price. This is what we need. Any ideas or thoughts?

    I drove the Lexus IS300 at an Edmunds.com event in Atlanta. BTW, it was a terrific event and a great idea, hope they do it again next year. Anyway, I liked the car compared to the others there - 3 series, A4, Acura TL, I30, Catera, Lincoln LS, 300M. The IS300 was a very good copy of the 3 series and I thought it accelerated and steered better. Now I could only drive it on their closed course which was very small so my experience is not extensive. Guess you really got to drive one on the road to compare fairly.

    I like the styling of the IS. It really appeals to a younger crowd which is why I think it exists. Lexus is a conservative brand and appeals to an older clintele. The IS changes that and brings in a customer that has money but wants cutting edge style and high quality. My only concern is that the styling will age quickly. It's very techie and "Japanese-anime". I'm sure all the 25 yr. old cyberdudes drool over this car and I feel this is the audience. A little too young for me but it is appealing. I prefer the Audi TT's sophisticated "Euro tech" style over the IS.
  • smu1976smu1976 Posts: 110
    A replacement key for my 92 Griffen ran $75.00 five years ago. I would imagine that a 99-2000 key would be around the same or higher today, so having the electronics inside (industry first) is probably worth the extra $100. If the distance is reasonable (will check one out in the showroom) sounds like a good deal. I am not aware of any car manufacturer passing on parts for what "they cost". Dealer markup is considerable.
  • saabeesaabee Posts: 23
    Stopped by my dealer last night after work, needed to replace wiper blades on my wifes 1999 9-5 SE, $22 each....ouch.

    Also got a further explanation from parts manager whom I had spoken to earlier in the day about the the new FOB. The 2-3 feet activation distance of the new FOB only relates to 99's and 2000's that replace the old with the new, they currently cannot be programmed for a greater distance. On the 2001 models new FOB works normally.
  • You should have asked the dealer if you installed rabbit ears on the fob if it would get better range!!! It would be interesting to see the response.

    Just as an FYI with the wiper blades, most people don't do this but - - peridically you should wipe your blades with either window cleaner solvent or isopropryl alcohol. It improves their clean wipe-ability and prevents streaking.

    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    No Saaber my comments were NOT personal attacks and you know it. I was pointing out that your complaints are often said to be "Saab Only Issues". I believe it's a distortion to make that claim. It's a distortion to insinuate that Saab is the only company to charge high prices for replacement keys. It's also a wrong to insinuate they do it because the like cheating custmers.

    Don't be so sensitive. Read the posts and take them for what they are. BTW I wasn't asked by the host to do or not do anything.

    I've also said that I will not engage in these type discussion unless I was Directly addressed, attacked, etc. You did - I responded with this post - Isn't that only fair?

    Disclaimer to the reader: There were no personal attacks made or intended in the above statements. Does that help anyones comprehension?

    Drew

    ps. I'd have to go back a read the post your referring to but I don't think I even mentioned you in it directly.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    >Probably - but as usual your seeing it as "Saab"
    cheating or an opportunity to complain about Saab<

    That would be a direct mention of you.

    But I do not see it as an attack. The verbage "but as usual your..." must be what offended you. This confuses me but sorry if your offended.

    Drew
  • Just picked mine up today for my 2000 Aero. Great size and functionality, about 1/2 again as large as the original key. $144 plus tax at my local dealer.
  • I tested my new 2001 with my 2000 Aero, and the range seems identical. Both work from a max of about 25 feet, depending on where you stand around the car...
  • Thanks for the info. The range seems acceptable. How long did it take for the service department to complete the process once you showed up with the car?

    Dave Kovacs
  • rtd1rtd1 Posts: 22
    It's official (I guess): all '98 and '99 9-5s are to have their T7 boxes replaced. I'm having fun imagining what the discussions were like as the two companies decided who was going to pick up the tab for this little episode.

    STOCKHOLM, Oct 7 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp's Swedish subsidiary Saab Automobile is recalling 130,000 cars because of defective electronics, a Saab spokesman said on Saturday.

    The cars represent the entire 1998 and 1999 output of the 9-5 model, Saab's head of information, Niklas Andersson, told Reuters.

    Andersson said the fault did not affect safety. Components in the electonics box had not been well enough protected when the system was manufactured by a Saab supplier.

    As a result the parts could suffer corrosion, causing the engine to handle roughly or even stop working.

    ``What the driver would experience is that a sign on the dashboard tells him 'Please check the engine', and the engine might even stop,'' Andersson said.

    The supplier, who he declined to name, would shoulder the costs of fixing the fault, and Saab itself would not suffer any costs
  • Took my dealer about 10 minutes to assemble the key and program the car. I was very pleased!
  • smu1976smu1976 Posts: 110
    Had a similar problem with my 9000 a couple of years ago with a recall on the electronics box for the air bag, where it was not properly sealed, and "could lead to problems". As I have stated on this board before, its best to wait to you receive the letter from Saab and then check with your dealer for it often takes 4-8 weeks before the dealer has the replacement kit in stock. Also if you can arrange it with your service check up, you can save a trip, and you can take advantage of the free loaner.
  • saabeesaabee Posts: 23
    Looks like I'll need to talk with my dealers parts manager and ask him why Saab told him the range would be 2-3 ft.for the new Fob on 99's & 2000's, when it looks like that's not the case at all.
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    If saab states that an engine can stop randomly, how can it state that there is no safety issue? I guess this is to cover themselves if a law suit arises from an issue which they are not acting on quickly enough. I guess I have to put myself in their same position as legal counsel to not want to panic individuals to demand quicker action (e.g., firestone tire).

    For anyone here to state that random engine stalling at highway speeds is not a safety issue, it is just my humble opinion that you can only be perceived as smoking something really strong. I know all the saablovers here will run to saab's rescue to claim that random stalling is a "good thing" because (1) it shows character in the saab name and (2) "all other cars" randomly stall as well.

    Yes, I commend saab for finally admitting what their owners were reporting in mass numbers for months. Many here can remember themselves viciously attacking those who mentioned that the saab 9-5 could randomly stall. I also remember the special informal "survey" where 7 out of ten people responded on the saablovers' "saabnet" site (to the question "is there anyone out there who has not had an ecu issue?") with no complaints about the ECU issue.
    I guess it's a good time for reflection of making personal attacks on those who mention issues with the intent of informing new customers of the problems,and getting saab's attention in the meantime to make the cars better.

    Yes, I congratulate saab on finally acting to fix the problem. I do not like its claims that no safety issue exists, when it admits that the cars can randomly stall (or in my case--buck) at any time. Let's hope they act quickly to fix these vehicle before a major accident does occur (or another accident occurs if they are covering up something that has actually happened).
  • I didn't get to services this weekend - - thanks for the sermon.


    Regards,

    Dave Kovacs
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