Hi, I thought I'd post a quick hello to you. I think Steve is right...with the holidays I think a lot of people are just really busy right now. As for others out there like me, I have been reading the posts in both this board and the problems one and I'm finding myself more and more disheartened the more I read about that hard shift problem and the lack of action on Mazda's part. I'd like to participate, but since I'm not experiencing that particular problem, I've been sitting on the sidelines, just reading the posts and getting mad on behalf of everyone with that problem. I'm finding myself getting scared that I own an MPV and that I'll start to have that hard shift problem too. Nothing like having a serious issue with a brand new vehicle! I remember my very first car and all the problems I had with it. Times were different then (it was probably the late 70's) but one thing I did do was go to the BBB and an arbitration thing with me, the dealership and some arbitrator that later ruled quite nicely in my favor. I wonder if that's an option for people with the hard shift problem?
So bottgers, some of us are still around, but we're just not posting at this time.
And for anyone that's interested in a change of topic, our temp gauge is still displaying inaccurate temps. I thank my lucky stars right now that that's all that seems to be wrong with our MPV.
Hope your holidays were nice bottgers! Sharon in Minnesota
Now I am not sure if the conditions were just that bad or what but the mpv did terrible in this Illinois snow today. I slid thru 2 intersections which I have never done in any other vehicle. Scared the begeezus out of me. Even the camry would have done better than this. Traction control only flashed a couple of times, never stayed on and never assisted in the braking which could have been useful. Again, not sure if this was extreme conditions or vehicle. Lived here all my life and never had winter driving problems til now. Wishing more and more I had never bought this thing. By the way, we are only at an inch right now and are supposed to get up to 9 so I will keep you posted if I live thru the drive to work tomorrow.
rumor24 - re: traction control... if it's like the Honda, I believe it applies breaks to get the car going (key point), and only up to some nominal speed like 15-20MPH when there is a speed difference sensed between the wheels - basically retarding the faster wheel so they spin at the same rate. i don't think that technology assists in breaking. now I have to go back and read my Honda manual again. I think it is essentially the same in most vehicles.
you probably mean or meant ABS. but ABS won't stop you any faster if there is no traction to be acquired between the surface your driving on and the tire. infact, if i'm not mistaken, it could actually increase your stopping distance if it is mis-used (driver pulses brakes).
stability control, now that's a different matter and technology, one I'm still trying to figure when it would come into play. it's not on my car, and i think the flavors are different among the manufacturers. not sure how that might have helped when it's really bad...i think it depends on the scenario when there is yawing of the vehicle, but these aren't offered on the MPV or the Honda, so they are non-factors per your experience.
maybe you had some bad road conditions that threw off your situational awareness - like maybe some hard-pack ice or black ice below the powder...or maybe the MPV just has a weight and/or a weight distribution different than your Camry. maybe the tires are inferior in performance in the snow to what is/was on the other car. maybe you're just mentally trained up for driving with the other car and just need to get more experience in the snow with the MPV.
who knows.
even with all these lovely technologies like ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, 4Wh Drive or All Wheel Drive...you still have to be careful out there. These technologies can leave people with a misplaced sense of security.
if you got a bit worried, then maybe you are a good driver and you were actually getting a handle on the extremes to which the combination (you and the car) can perform in the given conditions.
in the MPV (at least in our '02) is controlled by engine management, not use of the brakes. It uses the ABS sensors to detect the wheel spinning, but reduces engine output as needed.
I don't have a copy of the owners manual handy with me here, but it is explained there.
I think the TCS on the MPV really stinks. I've slipped upon starting up and it doesn't do squat, the wheels just spin. I have a Chevy Impala with TCS and that system seems to work much better. We're pretty unhappy with our MPV also. We are also having problems with the dashboard vents. If you have the temp somewhere between medium heat and the hottest setting, all of the vents adjust except for the one to the right of the steering wheel. It stays scorching hot. My husband sweats to death and keeps turning down the temp control while I'm in the passenger seat freezing. We are taking it in tomorrow and we'll see.
The ABS system used for braking is completely different than TCS which is used for traction control, although both are dependent on surface contact (i.e. tires) and road conditions to work properly. A stated earlier ABS sensors are used by the TCS to detect wheel spin.
To maximize ABS performance on slippery roads, you must FULLY depress the brake. Second, the system is designed to give you steering control while braking so if you can't stop you can at least steer away from trouble.
Also, if conditions are really terrible, you might want to decrease tire pressure to increase the road contact area.
Finally, you might want to purchase winter/snow tires to increase grip even more.
I just got back from a ski trip to NH in my 2004 MPV, and while the tranny is still problematic I was satisfied with both the TCS and ABS performance given this is a FWD van and not a 4WD SUV.
I also experienced that the vent on the right side of steering wheel blows out stronger air current than the left vent, thus it feels hotter. The air distribution is not even on all vents.
I noticed this past weekend that even though we had selected fresh and used no A/C that the air was hotter than than the outside air temp. It seemed to get a little better at highway speeds but sitting a a red light was not very comfortable. Maybe the tranny is getting hot and causing both the hard shift and warmer air flowing through the vents. Sarcasm intended!
My ONLY concern with the hard shifting is what long term effects it will have on the tranny. I'm thinking the slamming of the gears during these hard shifts can't be good for the tranny. What I don't want to have happen is for Mazda to continue doing nothing to fix this problem, then a day after my warranty expires, my tranny decideds to scatter all over the road. That's what I'm afraid of.
2 ways : either sell the MPV b4 standard 4 yr warranty expires or complains to Mazda in order to provide free extended 7yr/100K mi warranty. Final option is lemon law.
Well, we took ours in for this problem. The tech noted a 20-25 degree difference between the vents!!!! He made some calls and found out that Mazda put out some revised module for the problem, but it's still experimental and may not work. He ordered the module and as soon as it comes in we'll have it installed. I guess our van is going to be the test kitchen for fixing all the glitches this thing has. Thank goodness we have an excellent service department at our dealership. Those guys have been so patient with us with all of our ranting and raving, and they are doing all that's in their power to do.
I talked to mazda today (see problems board). They are not offering any extended warrenties at this time. They have not heard of any getting extendeds either. All of us with the bad trannies are going to have to live with it and hope for the best. Not sure who all got the 7 year bonuses, but they would not discuss it with me.
because we raised a big stink and threatened to sue. This is not a customary thing they are just handing out willingly. So, no, other reps aren't going to know about other people getting the extended warranty. We were just lucky I guess.
I bought the extended warranty at time of ordering my MPV last fall (02) received 3/03. It's thru Mazda, ZERO deductable and valid at ALL Mazda dealers. Cost was $1600 and I think now it will be worth the security down the road. I have the hard shift thing (occasionally) plus this heat vent thing and those power doors which will probably poop out at 50K miles anyway.... I went with 6 years 100K miles. Did it on all my previous units and always came out ahead. Tranny's replaced on my old DC, AC replaced on my Toyota Cam, etc. Someone mentioned that the FIX was out now...anyone heard if this is true (tranny fix)?
It is extreme cold here in New England 0F with -F windchill. It takes a while for the MPV to warm up the inside. I think why didn't the car manufacturer throw in a ceramic/spce heater as auxillary so the inside can be warmed real quick, guess this will shorten the warmup time in half. You know come with a timer like rear defroster in case the driver forgets to turn it off. An optional feature for buyers would be nice.
This is nuts...-20F with wind chill in Boston. Very happy I put in Mobil1 0-20 oil at 1000 and changed tranny ATF to Mobil1 too. Van turns over and starts easily, and am letting it warm up for 2-3 minutes before using.
My heater is working OK and once the engine is warm I get plenty of BTUs...also careful to drive at least 5 miles before turining engine off to gibve it a chance to warm up a bit. These are extreme conditions.
Also topped off tire pressure. I see lots of cars on the road in this cold with woefully underinflated tires.
Yeah, Cold really affects cars. Lived in Denver where -40 was common. My little 72 Ford Bronco always started(block heater) but I had to check it often. Three in the morning at -40/wind chill -60 is very hard to get up and go to work... I think I will go set in the hot tub and think about the "good 'ol days"..
BTW: Al Gore is in New York warning about "Global Warming".. The cold is just your imagination.. That boy is one brick short.... Tj
I had one in Anchorage (a small home model). My outside outlet was switched so I'd plug both the block heater in and the ceramic one that I put on a board on my front seat, and when I'd wake up at 7 am I'd flip the switch. This setup was especially handy since I didn't have a garage there.
And wait and see - Al's going to point out that global warming causes extremes :-)
I lived in Golden and -40 was common in the 70s. The politicians didn't like to talk about it... Don't care what the so called record said it is wrong.....
The record in Anchorage isn't all that low. The official station was out by the airport where the ocean moderated everything - it was often 20 degrees warmer than some of the cold sink spots across town. I think the Chamber of Commerce had a say in locating the station.
Shall we get back to the fun stuff now, like the latest 2-3 fix theory?
as many of you know...dealers are now getting the software to fix the hard shift problem....this has been tested in several key markets and so far it's working!!
Ok, I'm confused; my manual does NOT state anything about EVER changing the fluid in the tranny! Maint. schedules do not mention it.
I asked the dealer here in the Twin Cities and he reiterated that statement. I asked a trans. specialist at a local shop and he said you should change it every 24K miles!
What are we suppose to do on these MPV's?? I can't imagine NEVER changing the fluid; especially with all these problems this tranny has anyway....
You're right the manual's maintenance schedule makes no mention of fluid change. Even my GM's say 100,000, but I drove my Astro for 165,000 and never changed fluid. Still just as pink and clear as new. Still if you tow a lot I'd frequently check the color for browning.
It seems strange the maintenence schedule goes into great detail about changing the oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, filters and whatnot, but no mention whatsoever about changing the tranny fluid. If it isn't required to be changed, this would be the first auto tranny I've ever seen where the manufacturer doesn't recommend fluid and filter changes. Very strange.
ATF fluid life is a function of how hot the fluid is under normal operating conditions. A tranny running at 175F will have a lifespan equivalent to the rest of the car, but one running at 200F will only last 1/2 as long.
I tested the temp of the 2004 MPV tranny using an infrared thermometer under various conditions and it usually falls into the 170-180 range. However in stop and go traffic I got as high as 190.
This would suggest that changing the ATF at around 50K miles if you plan to keep the van into old age, otherwise forget about it.
Changing the ATF in the 2004 should not require dropping the pan to replace the filter as the 2004 transmission does not use a filter but a screen. So if the fluid is relatively clean you can just change the fluid at the connection points to the AT oil cooler, which is just in front of the radiator.
Because of the hard shift problem and my frustration with the Mazda dealer, I found a reputable transmission shop and had them chnage my fluid to Mobil1 ATF.
While the engine was running, they disconnected the input line at the cooler and drained the old ATF out while at the same time adding new fluid at the dipstick tube. The process used about 13 qts. Total cost for fluid and labor $150.
The hard shifting persisted after the change for about 200 miles, but started to diminish. For the past 2 weeks and about 500 miles, the van no longer exhibits the hard shifting.
rotated the 'Lops today at 17,400 miles. Still plenty of tread left. No brake wear to speak of, fluid container is still at maximum. I have been running Mobil 1 5W30. 4000 miles since the last change, not a drop lower since I filled it.
The MPV is one of the best buys I have made, it has worked like a charm, no problems anywhere. I haven't even made it into the dealer yet for the fog light recall.
I use to use Mobil 1 exclusively. Was really great in Michigan's UP and northern Illinois. But it has one flaw. It seems to let some oil related gaskets shrink over time and causes leaks. Worst problem was valve guide seals. I've since found that the synthetic blends do just as good a job in all weather conditions and keep gaskets from leaking. Blends are a lot cheaper too!
I think all the trannies in the '02 and newer MPV's are the same, so if what you're saying is true, you wouldn't need to drop the pan on any of the 5 speed models. There's another option as well that's less expensive. Instead of taking the van to a shop every 30K-50K and paying them $150 to change the fluid, you could just drain the tranny yourself about every 10K and it would only cost the price of about 3-4 qts of tranny fluid each time, and would accomplish basically the same thing.
...in what part of the country do you live? Here in MN I've noticed a dramatic decrease in the incidence of the problem since the cold weather hit. Still get it, but only 2-3 times in the last 4 weeks. Which is going to make being sure about the fix into a long exercise.
I've always thought the tranny issue was caused by an erroneous temperature signal to the TCM. Very cold weather makes it very hard to get and keep an engine hot which may explain Dan's decrease in hard shifting. Correction might be to tell the TCM to require a higher than normal temperature before hard shifting; creating a double idiot indicator. Flashing light on dash accompanied by onset of hard shifting indicates overheating. Problem gone but not forgotten.
I definitely agree that the cold weather seems to decrease the hard shift incidence (dramatically in my case). But I hope they didn't just crank up a temperature range - given the time it took to fix, I'm guessing/hoping it was more complex than that. I'd also expect to hear that the southern states were seeing more of the problem than us northerners (maybe they are).
Is the upcoming tranny fix going to be in the form of a TSB or a recall? If so, this would make taking the van to the service department to get the fix much easier as you wouldn't have to explain the problem, or have to rely on the a service tech being able to duplicate the problem. You could just say you're here for the shifting problem fix, and they would know exactly what to do to fix it.
I called my local dealer and hit him again about the fluid change issue; he waffled a bit, but supported the heat theory mentioned on this thread earlier. If you tow and get the tranny hotter, you should change around 50K miles. The manual does not state anything on this because in "NORMAL?" use, a person should not need to change until 100K miles and "most people sell their vehicles prior to this mileage" What a bunch of crow!! I was hoping to keep this my usual 8 years....maybe it will die at 100,001 miles with this type of built in life.
My bump and jerk shifting still happens at first cold start...no matter if -10 or +30 in MN.!
Has anyone estimated when they've had to replace the brakes on the MPV yet? They say to check them around 20K miles or so....just curious what the avg. life has been for people. I drive combo city/highway, so I'm sure that will drive it shorter....
Expect to get appx 60K on from disk pads and maybe 100K on rotors (with one round of on-vehicle machining . However if you have a very heavy foot could be lower, and if you do mostly high speed highway driving it could be alot higher.
I'm a little skeptical of the vehicle because the previous owner had the oil changes at "iffy lube". The receipts show the oil changed at around 5k (sometimes more) intervals. I have test driven the car extensively and it seems fine. It has 44k miles on it and drives and looks like new. The purchase is thru a dealer, but i have spoken personally with the original owner (found his number on the "iffy receipts") and he tells me that the car was great for him, no problems, he just needed more highway power and 4x4 capability. I tend to believe him since he has already traded it. Do the duratec engines really need the 3k interval pampering to last 100k? Are there any tell-tale signs to look for? Anyone with "iffy lube" issues out there or any insight at all on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
dan2004: 60k miles on a set of disc pads...for a front drive minivan..... I would think 30k-35k is more realistic for the front pads. I can see the rear pads going that far. It all depends on what type of driving you do and how you tend to brake.
davec6: If you have all of the receipts and you spoke with the owner, I don't see a problem. Yes it's Jiffy lube but you are only talking about changing the oil. I know a number of people in Edmunds recommend getting an oil analysis.
Comments
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
So bottgers, some of us are still around, but we're just not posting at this time.
And for anyone that's interested in a change of topic, our temp gauge is still displaying inaccurate temps. I thank my lucky stars right now that that's all that seems to be wrong with our MPV.
Hope your holidays were nice bottgers! Sharon in Minnesota
you probably mean or meant ABS. but ABS won't stop you any faster if there is no traction to be acquired between the surface your driving on and the tire. infact, if i'm not mistaken, it could actually increase your stopping distance if it is mis-used (driver pulses brakes).
stability control, now that's a different matter and technology, one I'm still trying to figure when it would come into play. it's not on my car, and i think the flavors are different among the manufacturers. not sure how that might have helped when it's really bad...i think it depends on the scenario when there is yawing of the vehicle, but these aren't offered on the MPV or the Honda, so they are non-factors per your experience.
maybe you had some bad road conditions that threw off your situational awareness - like maybe some hard-pack ice or black ice below the powder...or maybe the MPV just has a weight and/or a weight distribution different than your Camry. maybe the tires are inferior in performance in the snow to what is/was on the other car. maybe you're just mentally trained up for driving with the other car and just need to get more experience in the snow with the MPV.
who knows.
even with all these lovely technologies like ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, 4Wh Drive or All Wheel Drive...you still have to be careful out there. These technologies can leave people with a misplaced sense of security.
if you got a bit worried, then maybe you are a good driver and you were actually getting a handle on the extremes to which the combination (you and the car) can perform in the given conditions.
regards
I don't have a copy of the owners manual handy with me here, but it is explained there.
-Brian
To maximize ABS performance on slippery roads, you must FULLY depress the brake. Second, the system is designed to give you steering control while braking so if you can't stop you can at least steer away from trouble.
Also, if conditions are really terrible, you might want to decrease tire pressure to increase the road contact area.
Finally, you might want to purchase winter/snow tires to increase grip even more.
I just got back from a ski trip to NH in my 2004 MPV, and while the tranny is still problematic I was satisfied with both the TCS and ABS performance given this is a FWD van and not a 4WD SUV.
Maybe the tranny is getting hot and causing both the hard shift and warmer air flowing through the vents. Sarcasm intended!
Steve, Host
It's thru Mazda, ZERO deductable and valid at ALL Mazda dealers. Cost was $1600 and I think now it will be worth the security down the road.
I have the hard shift thing (occasionally) plus this heat vent thing and those power doors which will probably poop out at 50K miles anyway....
I went with 6 years 100K miles. Did it on all my previous units and always came out ahead. Tranny's replaced on my old DC, AC replaced on my Toyota Cam, etc.
Someone mentioned that the FIX was out now...anyone heard if this is true (tranny fix)?
My heater is working OK and once the engine is warm I get plenty of BTUs...also careful to drive at least 5 miles before turining engine off to gibve it a chance to warm up a bit. These are extreme conditions.
Also topped off tire pressure. I see lots of cars on the road in this cold with woefully underinflated tires.
BTW: Al Gore is in New York warning about "Global Warming".. The cold is just your imagination.. That boy is one brick short....
Tj
And wait and see - Al's going to point out that global warming causes extremes :-)
Steve, Host
Steve.
Steve.
Shall we get back to the fun stuff now, like the latest 2-3 fix theory?
Steve, Host
I asked the dealer here in the Twin Cities and he reiterated that statement. I asked a trans. specialist at a local shop and he said you should change it every 24K miles!
What are we suppose to do on these MPV's??
I can't imagine NEVER changing the fluid; especially with all these problems this tranny has anyway....
Thanks, TC
ANT14 "Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer" Jan 16, 2004 7:05pm
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
I tested the temp of the 2004 MPV tranny using an infrared thermometer under various conditions and it usually falls into the 170-180 range. However in stop and go traffic I got as high as 190.
This would suggest that changing the ATF at around 50K miles if you plan to keep the van into old age, otherwise forget about it.
Changing the ATF in the 2004 should not require dropping the pan to replace the filter as the 2004 transmission does not use a filter but a screen. So if the fluid is relatively clean you can just change the fluid at the connection points to the AT oil cooler, which is just in front of the radiator.
Because of the hard shift problem and my frustration with the Mazda dealer, I found a reputable transmission shop and had them chnage my fluid to Mobil1 ATF.
While the engine was running, they disconnected the input line at the cooler and drained the old ATF out while at the same time adding new fluid at the dipstick tube. The process used about 13 qts. Total cost for fluid and labor $150.
The hard shifting persisted after the change for about 200 miles, but started to diminish. For the past 2 weeks and about 500 miles, the van no longer exhibits the hard shifting.
The MPV is one of the best buys I have made, it has worked like a charm, no problems anywhere. I haven't even made it into the dealer yet for the fog light recall.
John
The only reason I changed the entire system over the Mobil1 was to try to deal with the hard shifting.
BTW, after two weeks I did get one hard shift yesterday. Will see if it was an anomoly or if the problem is back again.
Steve.
Steve.
Keeping my fingers crossed...
Steve.
My bump and jerk shifting still happens at first cold start...no matter if -10 or +30 in MN.!
Do the duratec engines really need the 3k interval pampering to last 100k? Are there any tell-tale signs to look for? Anyone with "iffy lube" issues out there or any insight at all on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
davec6: If you have all of the receipts and you spoke with the owner, I don't see a problem. Yes it's Jiffy lube but you are only talking about changing the oil. I know a number of people in Edmunds recommend getting an oil analysis.