Here's the new Envoy XUV, featuring a sliding roof panel (which they copied from the 1964 Studebaker Lark station wagon!). It also has a mid-gate panel that drops down or can be raised to shield passengers while carrying cargo.
Thanks Mike- my sentiments exactly. They're MY DRLs I bought and paid for them, and I should be able to turn them off if I choose!! Besides I get tired of seeing 2 or 3 GM vehicles a day with one DRL burned out! If someone fails to turn on their lights at the appropriate time then I would prefer that a law enforcement officer issue that person a ticket to learn 'em something!
If they want to mandate visibility then all vehicles should be painted day-glo yellow!
Kinda like the 3rd brake light. When they 1st came out in '86 everyone noticed them. Now they are just "there" and people continue to get rear-ended.
As I was turning into my drivway last night I felt the front wheels bind on my TB. The 4WD swith had majically changed itself for the 3rd and final time to 4-Hi. I stopped and then watched the little yellow dot magically go back to 2-Hi. Can anyone please give me the TSB, part number, or posting that replaces the faulty 4WD control knob?
I also reduced the tire pressure down from 34 psi to 32 psi on all the tires. I took it out on the interstate again but did not feel the 2 second on/off rumble. It may have originally been caused by having four (skinny) people, camping gear, and pulling a jet ski (single, stand-up) but I was well below any weight limits.
There is also another squeak in either the suspension or possibly the hood when going over small bumps in town. Can anyone refresh my memory regarding the squeak coming from the hood latch before I head back to the dealership??
Picked up my new Envoy SLT on June 21. I love it. 4-02 build date.
I have had a few technical problems and found this great discussion group last week -- and promptly read all of the posts (That took a few days ;-p). Great idea for a town hall group Bob!
Tim Lauro's site pointed me in the right direction for the wandering mirrors. (Mine has this issue)
I wasn't able to find info on my other issue -- the HVAC. My past experiences with auto climate and the Envoy manual do not seem to sync with what I am getting out of my vents.
Would anyone like an excuse to go out and visit your Envoy SLT on this beautiful hot sunny day? I would like to compare my auto climate with yours.
With 80-90 degree weather and direct sunlight (HOT) please try and replicate the following:
1. Start the car and dial the auto driver's temp down to 60. Keep HVAC in auto mode.
2. Does the light on the recirculate button come on? (Mine never does automatically)
3. Note the fan speed. (Mine never goes higher than 6 out of 8 in auto mode) To check this, click the Fan-Speed-Up button once to put the system in manual mode. The display will indicate what speed the auto climate was last running. Click the Fan-Speed-Up button to see if you can make the fan run faster than it was in Auto. (I can go two clicks higher)
4. Press the Auto button once to go back into auto mode. You should still be dialed to 60.
5. Press the Recirculate button. Does the climate control stay in auto mode? (Mine does)
6. Note the fan speed. Then click the Fan-Speed-Up button once to start manual mode. I can get the fan to go one notch higher in manual mode.
7. Click Auto and dial to 60. This should turn recirculate off. Turn Recirculate back on. Then dial to 80. Does the Re-Circulate light EVER go off? (Mine doesn't. I need to turn it off manually 20-30 minutes later)
So that's it. I just retested the above yesterday when it was 100 degrees outside! It would be greatly appreciated if some folks could let me know how their vehicle operates.
If I get in a hot car, I want the auto climate to turn the AC to recirculate and the fan to high to cool down the car. Then it should turn off recirc and turn down the fan and mixture once the vehicle cools. The manual states "in manual blower operation, a higher fan speed is available," but what I'm getting in auto seems ridiculous. The Manual also says that when in auto mode "the system will maximize its performance by using recirculation as necessary."
The manual also states that you can have "manual fan with auto air". On my vehicle, the "Auto" light on the HVAC display shuts off in this mode. However, in the "auto fan with manual mode" setting, the "Auto" light stays on. Hmmmm.
Does anyone know the part number for the factory GM running boards for the TB EXT? Or do you have a pair you want to part with? Or does your GM dealer have a clue cause mine sure doesn't..By the way I posted a problem with the AC hissing a while ago (Post # 6223/6224) and now I still hear it (it's not a drip sizzle, it's more like a vacuum sound) My wife says she notices that the air is starting to come out humid at first then gets cold...any thoughts?? Thanks INFO: the other day the right rear door did not open from the outside..? had to use the inside handle then it worked fine... (not child lock)? vibration coming from gas pedal at very low speeds...sometimes we hear weird noises, thumps, clunks, squeaks, not reproduce able though...sunroof had squeak, pushed up hard on the ceiling a felt it catch on some sort of fastener, squeak stopped.... thanks again...
previousamigo - I had the magical 4WD switch until I got it replaced. I don't know of the TSB #, but maybe someone else does. Luckily, a code was set once and my dealer was able to diagnose the problem as a faulty switch. I had an earlier service visit where no code/problem was found, so nothing was fixed/replaced.
The new switch has a much better 'feel' to it. The old one seemed rather sloppy.
If your car is not running and is parked in the sun and the temp is 100 outside of the car, the temp will most likely be well over 100 inside of the car. Why would you want to recirculate the air when you first start the car and turn on the air. Your air will cool quicker if you expell the hot inside air not recirculate it, until the air is sufficiently cooled, then recirculate it.
Driving from Atlanta to Columbia, SC, I experienced the infamous no gauge problem. About an hour west of Augusta, GA, I stopped for gas and when I returned to the car the gauges were out. The radio worked, but the only thing that worked in the dash pod was the check engine light. It went out when I started the car. Even the cruise control light was out.
I called my dealer and they informed me that they have seen that problem and the correction is to reprogram the car's computer. The job takes 90 minutes. Since it was close to 5 p.m., there was no way to get the car fixed yesterday afternoon at another dealer, so I drove home without gauges.
I read another post that someone reported that the odometer continues to track the mileage even when the gauges are out. I can report that that information is incorrect. The rest of my trip was about 120 miles, but the trip odometer and the main odometer continued to read the mileage I noted when I stopped for gas.
When I got home, I pulled into the garage. Just for kicks, I restarted the car. Gauages worked. The difference this time is it is dark enough in my garage to activate the automatic headlights.
I won't be rushing to the dealer for the reprogramming, but if the problem resurfaces before I have the work done, I'll try putting a magazine over the headlight sensor on the dash. It's worth a try.
When the odometer stops working because of an electrical failure or software bug, how can we be sure of the correct mileage the car has. I think this issue should be brought up with the authorities. G M will have to give them better answers than they give us. If pulling a fuse will disable the odometer or if reprogramming the computers will reset the odometer how can we ever be sure of the correct mileage when buying a new or used car?
Along with first opening the windows, recirculate should help remove some of that hot air from the vehicle interior and cool it.
The manual recommends recirculate for "maximum air conditioning performance in hot weather." In my experience with other auto climate programming, a hot car is addressed by the system turning the fan high and the recirculate on. My vehicle does neither of these, and I have never seen the recirculate come on by itself as it is explained in the manual, whether it is 100, 80 or 70.
To me this is annoying, and if it is a malfunction, I would like to address it with my dealer.
(See the Air Conditioning section of the Auto Climate directions (page 3-7 in my manual) for a good overview)
Does anyone lnow why Motor Trend would list 0-60 times on an LTZ at 7.7 seconds ( which i dont think is accurate ), and Autoweek would list a 9.8 0-60 time.
I would tend to think that the actual 0-60 time would fall somewhere in between.
Dave: I was speaking from experience with my own TB only. It cools quicker without recirculating if the outside temp is cooler than the inside temp. Turning on the recirculate a short time later then cools even more. Some other cars have a Max cooling position. The triplets don't call it Max. I don't know if it works the same.
My 2002 Envoy SLT has the same issue. I took mine in and was flabbergasted by the service reps response when I told her that recirc and high fan speed do not automatically come on...."I've never heard of them coming on in any vehicle" she said, "you always have to manually adjust the fan speed and recirculate buttons." --- good lord! I had to explain in quite detail that every other vehicle I know does'nt do this, and explain to her that auto climate control is just that..you set it, and leave it, and it's supposed to adjust all parameters accordingly. Well, to make it brief, she went to the back to ask a tech and told me he agreed with her. I then pulled out the manual and like hooked on phonics, read and pointed out what the manual explains (quite clearly) the function of Manual mode vs Auto mode. She then said, "Oh, that's interesting." Well, they said they put a call in to "GM" to inquire and they checked several other Envoys in the lot and they all did the same (never went to highest level fan speed nor recirculate). So drlawrence, i guess its a first year model flaw.
Just returned from a 3000 mile round trip (2 adults, 2 young kids)with my TB EXT build date 03/02.Was also able to store everything in the back and see through rear view mirror. Performance was great. Ride was smooth and comfortable. Noticed some extra sway on the rear (first time fully loaded), but all in all, very happy with this purchase. Had a error light come on for the Airbag system one morning upon start up. Turned off the engine and restarted and the light never came back on. My TB EXT experience so far has been very good (only one incidence of the jet roar so far in the first 6000 miles...) Regards, Rob
Frank: Thanks for relaying what is working in your TB. I'm pretty sure "Max" is the same as "recirculate". Do you have auto or manual climate?
Ken: Thanks for taking the time to let us know your service experience. I too have never seen an auto climate function like this, but I couldn't imagine trying to convince the dealer of it.
If the Envoy's auto climate is in fact *designed to work this way* (incorrectly if you read the manual btw) is sounds like GM needs to come up with a fix -- perhaps just uploading new software to the unit. (So for 2003 model year, will GM fix the software, or change the manual? - any wagers? )
Does anyone know if auto climate operates identically in the TB's and Bravada's? (or if the manual reads the same way?)
Thanks for posting the Luggage Rack photos. I have been casually following the discussion but never took the time to look at mine. When I took my SLT (12/01 build date) in for the wandering mirror fixed, I looked at the Envoy's on the lot and the brackets were installed just like mine. So I thought, "cool, mine are right". Then I see the pics, "uncool, mine are not right"! Thanks for a great board!
Got in my Envoy last evening to go to the gym. It was about 90 outside. No cold air from the A/C. First time this has happened (I have 3000 miles on it). I had read about this before here and pulled over, turned off the engine then restarted the vehicle. Magically, there was cold air.
It appears that Microsoft wrote the triplet software since a restart makes everything better (usually).
For those that have had the same A/C problem, have you brought it to the attention of the dealer, and have they been able to fix it?
Jimsxn posted this link over in I Don't Like SUVs Why Do You? It's going to be handy for hauling tall trees and then hosing out the back when you're done. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Well.. I think until we can drum up some concrete information on how the HVAC system is "really' supposed to operate, I think that we all may be "spinning our tires in knee seep mud."
I have read through the HVAC postings on this board and to some degree, my HVAC system operates in a manner similar to everyone elses complains.. ha, ha.. BUT.. in response to jwinky, the next time you start your vehicle and hot air comes out, let it run for a couple of minutes to see if it switches to cold air.
I have kind of noticed this trend with my Envoy. It seems as if sometimes when left in direct sunlight, once I turn the key, you will immediately get blasted with very hot air.. approximately 1 - 2 minutes after, the compressor kicks on and then the cold air begins to flow? I wonder if GM did this intentionally to save the compressor or something?? Also, I have learned to NOT use the recirculate function until after the interior has cooled down considerably. I did attempt to use the recirculate for the first time last week and I SWEAR that I was in a SAUNA until I kicked the recirculation button off. When I tried this, the heat index was somewhere around 105 on that given day. Given the sun shade and the cracked windows, I do think that the interior temp was a little cooler as compared to the outside temp before I started the vehicle.
Oh well.. I wonder what GMDRONE thinks about all of this??
In additon to the gear ratio differences, 0-60 times will vary a decent amount based on weather conditions. The low 8's is probably average. 9.8 is way too high.
Also, some magazines use a street start method - just flooring it, while others give the transmission a head start by flooring the gas while on the brake then letting off the brake.
It seems that a (very) rough estimate of a 0-60 time for an automatic is lbs/hp / 2
I haven't really concerned myself with max fan speed and recirc when in auto mode, because the cooling has been more than adequate. I came from a Honda Civic, and the Japanese have a lot to learn about Americans and their A/C, because when it is as hot as it has been here lately, my Civic could never be described as having adequate cooling. Oops, me old English teachers would get me for that last run-on sentence.
Iexplore, I thought maybe it would correct itself after a while, too. I even tried to turn the climate control off and on a couple of times, turned it down to 60 and up to 90 to see if I could 'unstick' whatever may be stuck, but no luck. I actually had about a 10 minute trip to the gym, and didn't cycle the engine until I get very close to the gym. But when I did cycle the engine, I was greeted by cold air.
I guess it is just something I will have to keep an eye on, along with many other things.
Get over this "dumbing down" issue. Auto headlights started as a luxury item (just as the 3rd brake light and DRL's) then studies showed that those vehicles actually had less head on collisions (DRLS) and less rear-endings (3rd brake lights). Look at it as a luxury and not as a political vice you won't be so bothered. Personally, I wouldn't buy a car where I had to manually turn on the headlights. Not because I'm "dumbed down" and don't know when to turn them on but because I enjoy the luxury of using my brain cells to concentrate on actually driving.
Do you think auto climate control is "dumbing down" also? Making things safer while providing a bit of luxury sure seems to put some people on the defensive. Almost as if one proves their abilities by knowing when to turn on and off their headlights!
This is in response to the recent postings of AC issues. Well I guess I'm somewhat glad to hear I am not the only one having this issue. I have an Envoy w/ 2860 miles on it, and the intermittent AC problem where the cold air won;t come out, started a coupel of weeks ago. I took it to the local GMC dealer, and immediately they told me that they had heard of this problem already (one of the mechanics said 20 times so far- don't know if it was just for Envoys). Anyway, they eneded up replacing a releief valve "hoping" it would fix it- it has not. They were in the process of contacting the manufacturer to see if they ahd a fix for this. Luckily so far, the restart workaround works for me. However, this is summer in Texas and now it's humid as well. This AC problem is a real pain in the [non-permissible content removed]. Anyone heard of anyhting else on this- specially somethign that actually fixes the problem.
Hmmm...I wonder how many brain cells I'm wasting when I take a second to turn the headlights on. I wonder what else I could have done with those brain cells and that one second that it took to turn on the headlights.
The Auto Climate Control in the triplets works just as it should! It's actually based on the systems first used in Cadillacs and takes into account the TOTAL comfort of the passenger.
Example: Yes, the manual states to use recirculation to cool down the car faster HOWEVER you must also use your head. The whole reason to use recirculate (in that case) is because the cooler the incoming air, the easier it is to cool it. When you first get into the vehicle, in most cases, the air inside is MUCH hotter than outside.
Here is the LOGICAL way to deal with this. When you first start the vehicle, roll down the BACK windows and let the HVAC take over. Once the air inside the vehicle has cooled down some, close the BACK windows and, a minute or so later, use the recirculate button.
The auto climate control SHOULD NOT automatically recirculate the air. This has to be manually controlled because the auto manufacturer is not going to take on the liability of someone getting "gased" (many cars have small exhaust leaks). In fact, GM cars have had the "flow-through" system for years where, even when the HVAC controls are off, there is still air circulated throughout the car.
Regarding the fan issue in AUTO. It's a judgement call, but I think they have done the right thing (ALL LUXURY GM cars with ACC are like this). There are actually two very good reasons for not having FULL FAN in Auto. The logic is this - A lot of the time the system works at full throttle. For luxury car buyers, to have the system fan on high for so long would get very annoying. The other is plain old physics. The air coming out of the registers ACTUALLY changes degrees depending on the fan speed. Air coming out, while in cooling mode, at high speed is WARMER than at lower speeds. It's quite simple. The faster the fan speed, the less time the air is in contact with the cooling grids, the less heat/humidity is extracted from the air.
Simple physics.
Now just a commentary about Auto Climate Control: Auto Climate Control is designed to keep the vehicle at a set temperature while PLEASING as many people as possible. It is not designed to think for you or me and figure out how we want our air delivered.
You like your AC recirculated immediately and at it's highest speed while I don't want that stale, super heated air blown at me at full blast.
Just called 2 other dealers in the DFW area on my AC problem. Neither had heard of the Envoy AC problem. Called up GMC directly (800 GMC TRUC) and I was told they have had no such compalints on file. They opened a file for me as well as call my dealer directly and spoke to my service manager. I was asked to keep a log of when this happens and look for any patterns (rain, time of day, etc). So far 3 of the 4 times, it has been raining or I had just washed the truck. The last time (this morning) it was in my garage (however humidity has been higher than normal the last 2 weeks- don't know if that has anything to do with it). If you have the same issue go ahead and call GMC direct (or have the dealer call them). I was told that if more people complain of this they would prgressively get more departement involved including their engineering dept that might help locate any faulty design or part. To paraphrase the problem: AC will not blow cold air when truck is started- even after leaving it on for 10 or more mintues. As soo as it gets re-started, the cold air starts flowing.
Does anyone experience this? It almost sounds like the transmission is slipping when pulling away. Randomly (especially in high temperatures) I will pull away and the car starts roaring real loud, with little if no umph! It usually happens off starts, in hot weather. The dealer says they know of the problem well, with no fix? Anyone with a fix can probably make a lot of $ selling their secret to Chevy!
Good post, mfullmer. However, it can have been done in one sentence. "If you want recirculation on, PRESS THE BUTTON!"
What has the world come to where we spend so much energy complaining about turning on lights and pressing buttons?"
Geez, we've even got auto-volume adjustment. How 'bout an argument about how that doesn't work well enough? How long before we start complaining that the thing doesn't drive on its own?
While I'm at it, I may as well toss in the obligatory: "I wonder what GMDRONE thinks about this."
I think a lot of you folks need to drive my '67 Chevelle for a day to see how it used to be. No A/C, no rain sensing wipers, no power windows, no power door locks. It doesn't do jack for you.
I had a problem where the AC on the driver's side of my Envoy SLT would only blow warm air, the passenger side worked fine. I took it into the dealer and they found that an actuator that controls a flap that directs the air over the cooling coils was not working.
They replaced the actuator and everything is fine.
Thanks to everyone for participating in the auto climate discussion. This is great!
There are obviously many ways GM could have handled the recirc and fan issue. Also, there are other manufacturers who have implemented it differently.
That doesn't change the premise this thread started on... The manual states, "The air inlet will normally be set to outside air. If it's hot outside, the air inlet will automatically switch to recirculated inside air to help quickly cool down your vehicle."(p. 3-5)
Three pages later, the manual states, "Also while in AUTO mode, the system will maximize its performance by using recirculation as necessary." (p. 3-8)
However, based on our unscientific poll, it looks like nobody's AAC actually functions like this.
So, either the manual is incorrect, or it appears all of our AAC's are not functioning properly.
Which is it??
Btw, my manual version is 2/25/02.
One other possibility. Perhaps the recirculate is functioning as written in the manual, but in auto mode the light on the recirc button is not illuminated.
When I picked up my vehicle, the vents would go to zero velocity after the fan was running on high for 30 seconds. The only way to get fan back on at all was to turn off the climate control and turn it back on. If I never turned on maximum blower, the vent would work indefinitely.
This was easy to replicate for the dealer, (turn on max blower, wait 30 seconds, zero breeze)
They replaced a module #52494707, and in my case it completely fixed the problem.
For those of you, like myself, who find that parking your new (insert your triplet make here) in your garage can be tricky, here is a great device that you may want to check out. Especially if garage is not one of the newer, larger garages. Also, it is on sale.. much lower than I paid for mine.
I was having difficulty judging how close to the wall in front that I needed to be so I could easily open my liftgate without hitting my garage door in back of me so I installed this parking device and it accurately "parks" my Envoy in the same spot every time!
Takes less than 5 minutes to install and runs for a year on 4 "AA" batteries.
I have a string hanging down from my garage ceiling - when it kisses my windshield, my van is "in." One of these days I'm going to stick a foam ball on the end of it like I did for my Mom. No batteries either Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Does anyone else seem to have a roaring sound when you have the ac on and starting to go foward. I was told as well that it might be a problem or might not. I think it is a little problem because the truck doesn't move untill it shifts into second ore third. If anyone spoke to a mechanic and he/she stated it was a problem what should be done to fix it.
Slight clarification for the Envoy AC w/ no cold air problem: When the AC will not blow cold air on engine start up, the fan still does work. It just does not get cold no matter how long you wait. After a restart, the air becomes cold immediately.
Just got the truck washed and as soon as I started the engine- there it was- no cold air; just fan air. Re-started it and "poof", magic.. the air got cold.
Still keeping my log for when I take it into the dealer again.Next time it happens, I think I will call OnStar to see if they can run one of their "remote" dignostics.
Pretty sure there is an interlock to prevent compressor start until the engine is running. This causes a monentary delay.
On all the GM vehicles I have owned with auto CC, they do default to outside air. I don't believe the fresh air/recirculate option is retained after power down.
It is quite possiblt that the a/c in the trips does automatically move to recirc for more rapid cooldown. This seems to be automatic and temporary, based on the sensor settings. It is quite possible this occurs with NO visible indication being provided. The design work to illuminate the dash a/c button probably was deemed unnecessary. Another issue is when anything happens automatically, some drivers will try to override it if they can. This might create more problems for the system than just following the program.
Max fan at startup.
Probably depends on fan capacity. The fan speed setting may well be optimized for max cooling without being at highest speed. Some folks like to crank the fan to high and leave temp a little higher for driving economy. Also, the same system dispenses heat, so there is a trade-off for providing heat or a/c.
Bravada flaring shifts ( engine roar)
I had this problem in my Bravada. It was cured by the dealer reprogramming the EPROM. I wanted lowest speed shif points.
Have you noticed that us Trailblazer LS owners without AUTO AC have not complained about the AC yet. I probably shouldn't have posted this because I may jinx myself and my AC will soon go bad. Same as my power locks, 4WD switch, loose baffles, loose headliner, orange peel spots, warping front bumper, wind noise, and numerous other squeaks, rattles and rumbles. Oh well, I still dig the ride and power.
the problem of no cold air on start remains there even when the Auto option is disabled and manual is done. before you go on about having to leave it alone before it cools down- don't worry that was tried already.
So far 5 times in 2 weeks and the AC is constantly on.. it's in the 90s w/ high humidity. Perfect timing for this AC problem to start.
Hey, come on and lets keep it real! I suppose you two own microwaves, and have remote controls for your tv's and home stereos, etc., and I bet you two actually USE them. Why bother with microwave when an oven does just fine? or why use the remotes? -- is it just because they were "provided" by the manufacturer that you use them, or perhaps because they are a convenience? I mean come on, it's just a bunch of buttons and how much effort can it be to actually get up and change channells and volume manually? With regard to "simple physics", and no offense to gmdrone, then you and all GM engineers have horribly failed physics in school. BOTH my 1998 and 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokees, AND 1996 Toyota 4Runner AND 1994 Toyota Camry had automatic climate controls the DID RUN the fan speeds AND the recirculate options. I never ever had to press a recirc button or adjust fan speed as they functioned properly. Thus, if this was not a feature on the triplets and was not clearly stated in the owners manual that it is indeed supposed to work as such, then none of us would complain. I mean, hey.. it's a luxury convenience and supposed to come with the vehicle; it is just rather annoying that a vehicle costing over 30 thousand dollars does'nt do what it is advertised to do. .... "Geez, we've even got auto-volume adjustment. How 'bout an argument about how that doesn't work well enough?" --- well scott, at least mines working; looks like they got one thing right! I'll be sure to let you know if it konks out! BTW drlawrence..my mothers 2002 Bravada does the same thing too.
I wish I could keep my TB IN overdrive. It falls out, even downshifts, at the smallest suggestion of inclination in the road.
3.42 gears could explain the constant shifting but it angers me that a legitimate factory option is not accompanied by the appropriate operational characteristics that made me want the 3.42 gears in the first place - improved highway mileage. The incessant shifting gives me 16.x mpg without cargo or trailer, 60-70 mph, and light foot. Combined is 12.x mpg (heaven forbid I did only city driving).
The larger tires on the 17" wheels could be a contributor also. Don't know enough about it.
The vehicle is everything I wanted and expected except for the gas mileage and unconfident transmission.
Good luck to you, ficuss, and those others reporting on this board - a rough guess is about 2/3 - who get 17 or more mpg.
Let me add that it could be that the people who warned you about the dim headlights might have really been referring to the symptom, reported here, of the headlights dimming momentarily from time to time.
Like others here, the lights on my TB are bright as can be (although GM got as far as rain-sensing wipers, I wish they had gone the rest of the way to xenon lamps), and again, like others here, I have experienced momentary dimming.
I have a similar experience with my Envoy. When the car is just starting or has sat for a period of time while running errands, there is a change in the pitch of the engine. The usual engine sound is a low throaty sound. But when this "roar" occurs, the sound has a higher pitch and there is an evident lack of power. Eventually the throaty sound and power return. I have not taken my car to a local dealer to have it checked out. Who has time?!! Hope this is an easy fix. Does anyone have solution.
Whether this is old news or not, there will be a 2003 Bravada. There's a new color called "Light Silver Green" and a coil spring suspension will be available in place of the air bag set-up on AWD models.
All this is from the GM site (not sure whether or not I can post the link here).
Comments
Neat truck:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020702-1.htm
If they want to mandate visibility then all vehicles should be painted day-glo yellow!
Kinda like the 3rd brake light. When they 1st came out in '86 everyone noticed them. Now they are just "there" and people continue to get rear-ended.
I also reduced the tire pressure down from 34 psi to 32 psi on all the tires. I took it out on the interstate again but did not feel the 2 second on/off rumble. It may have originally been caused by having four (skinny) people, camping gear, and pulling a jet ski (single, stand-up) but I was well below any weight limits.
There is also another squeak in either the suspension or possibly the hood when going over small bumps in town. Can anyone refresh my memory regarding the squeak coming from the hood latch before I head back to the dealership??
Thanks in advance.
I have had a few technical problems and found this great discussion group last week -- and promptly read all of the posts (That took a few days ;-p). Great idea for a town hall group Bob!
Tim Lauro's site pointed me in the right direction for the wandering mirrors. (Mine has this issue)
I wasn't able to find info on my other issue -- the HVAC. My past experiences with auto climate and the Envoy manual do not seem to sync with what I am getting out of my vents.
Would anyone like an excuse to go out and visit your Envoy SLT on this beautiful hot sunny day? I would like to compare my auto climate with yours.
With 80-90 degree weather and direct sunlight (HOT) please try and replicate the following:
1. Start the car and dial the auto driver's temp down to 60. Keep HVAC in auto mode.
2. Does the light on the recirculate button come on? (Mine never does automatically)
3. Note the fan speed. (Mine never goes higher than 6 out of 8 in auto mode) To check this, click the Fan-Speed-Up button once to put the system in manual mode. The display will indicate what speed the auto climate was last running. Click the Fan-Speed-Up button to see if you can make the fan run faster than it was in Auto. (I can go two clicks higher)
4. Press the Auto button once to go back into auto mode. You should still be dialed to 60.
5. Press the Recirculate button. Does the climate control stay in auto mode? (Mine does)
6. Note the fan speed. Then click the Fan-Speed-Up button once to start manual mode. I can get the fan to go one notch higher in manual mode.
7. Click Auto and dial to 60. This should turn recirculate off. Turn Recirculate back on. Then dial to 80. Does the Re-Circulate light EVER go off? (Mine doesn't. I need to turn it off manually 20-30 minutes later)
So that's it. I just retested the above yesterday when it was 100 degrees outside! It would be greatly appreciated if some folks could let me know how their vehicle operates.
If I get in a hot car, I want the auto climate to turn the AC to recirculate and the fan to high to cool down the car. Then it should turn off recirc and turn down the fan and mixture once the vehicle cools. The manual states "in manual blower operation, a higher fan speed is available," but what I'm getting in auto seems ridiculous. The Manual also says that when in auto mode "the system will maximize its performance by using recirculation as necessary."
The manual also states that you can have "manual fan with auto air". On my vehicle, the "Auto" light on the HVAC display shuts off in this mode. However, in the "auto fan with manual mode" setting, the "Auto" light stays on. Hmmmm.
Thanks for having me aboard!
Dave Lawrence
Thanks
INFO: the other day the right rear door did not open from the outside..? had to use the inside handle then it worked fine... (not child lock)? vibration coming from gas pedal at very low speeds...sometimes we hear weird noises, thumps, clunks, squeaks, not reproduce able though...sunroof had squeak, pushed up hard on the ceiling a felt it catch on some sort of fastener, squeak stopped....
thanks again...
The new switch has a much better 'feel' to it. The old one seemed rather sloppy.
Frank
I called my dealer and they informed me that they have seen that problem and the correction is to reprogram the car's computer. The job takes 90 minutes. Since it was close to 5 p.m., there was no way to get the car fixed yesterday afternoon at another dealer, so I drove home without gauges.
I read another post that someone reported that the odometer continues to track the mileage even when the gauges are out. I can report that that information is incorrect. The rest of my trip was about 120 miles, but the trip odometer and the main odometer continued to read the mileage I noted when I stopped for gas.
When I got home, I pulled into the garage. Just for kicks, I restarted the car. Gauages worked. The difference this time is it is dark enough in my garage to activate the automatic headlights.
I won't be rushing to the dealer for the reprogramming, but if the problem resurfaces before I have the work done, I'll try putting a magazine over the headlight sensor on the dash. It's worth a try.
Frank
Along with first opening the windows, recirculate should help remove some of that hot air from the vehicle interior and cool it.
The manual recommends recirculate for "maximum air conditioning performance in hot weather." In my experience with other auto climate programming, a hot car is addressed by the system turning the fan high and the recirculate on. My vehicle does neither of these, and I have never seen the recirculate come on by itself as it is explained in the manual, whether it is 100, 80 or 70.
To me this is annoying, and if it is a malfunction, I would like to address it with my dealer.
(See the Air Conditioning section of the Auto Climate directions (page 3-7 in my manual) for a good overview)
Dave
I would tend to think that the actual 0-60 time would fall somewhere in between.
Any other thoughts?
Frank
Ken: Thanks for taking the time to let us know your service experience. I too have never seen an auto climate function like this, but I couldn't imagine trying to convince the dealer of it.
If the Envoy's auto climate is in fact *designed to work this way* (incorrectly if you read the manual btw) is sounds like GM needs to come up with a fix -- perhaps just uploading new software to the unit. (So for 2003 model year, will GM fix the software, or change the manual? - any wagers? )
Does anyone know if auto climate operates identically in the TB's and Bravada's? (or if the manual reads the same way?)
Dave
Thanks for a great board!
It appears that Microsoft wrote the triplet software since a restart makes everything better (usually).
For those that have had the same A/C problem, have you brought it to the attention of the dealer, and have they been able to fix it?
Thanks,
JAW
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I have read through the HVAC postings on this board and to some degree, my HVAC system operates in a manner similar to everyone elses complains.. ha, ha.. BUT.. in response to jwinky, the next time you start your vehicle and hot air comes out, let it run for a couple of minutes to see if it switches to cold air.
I have kind of noticed this trend with my Envoy. It seems as if sometimes when left in direct sunlight, once I turn the key, you will immediately get blasted with very hot air.. approximately 1 - 2 minutes after, the compressor kicks on and then the cold air begins to flow? I wonder if GM did this intentionally to save the compressor or something?? Also, I have learned to NOT use the recirculate function until after the interior has cooled down considerably. I did attempt to use the recirculate for the first time last week and I SWEAR that I was in a SAUNA until I kicked the recirculation button off. When I tried this, the heat index was somewhere around 105 on that given day. Given the sun shade and the cracked windows, I do think that the interior temp was a little cooler as compared to the outside temp before I started the vehicle.
Oh well.. I wonder what GMDRONE thinks about all of this??
Thanks!
IExplore2000@aol.com
Also, some magazines use a street start method - just flooring it, while others give the transmission a head start by flooring the gas while on the brake then letting off the brake.
It seems that a (very) rough estimate of a 0-60 time for an automatic is lbs/hp / 2
Iexplore, I thought maybe it would correct itself after a while, too. I even tried to turn the climate control off and on a couple of times, turned it down to 60 and up to 90 to see if I could 'unstick' whatever may be stuck, but no luck. I actually had about a 10 minute trip to the gym, and didn't cycle the engine until I get very close to the gym. But when I did cycle the engine, I was greeted by cold air.
I guess it is just something I will have to keep an eye on, along with many other things.
JAW
Do you think auto climate control is "dumbing down" also? Making things safer while providing a bit of luxury sure seems to put some people on the defensive. Almost as if one proves their abilities by knowing when to turn on and off their headlights!
Well I guess I'm somewhat glad to hear I am not the only one having this issue.
I have an Envoy w/ 2860 miles on it, and the intermittent AC problem where the cold air won;t come out, started a coupel of weeks ago.
I took it to the local GMC dealer, and immediately they told me that they had heard of this problem already (one of the mechanics said 20 times so far- don't know if it was just for Envoys).
Anyway, they eneded up replacing a releief valve "hoping" it would fix it- it has not.
They were in the process of contacting the manufacturer to see if they ahd a fix for this.
Luckily so far, the restart workaround works for me.
However, this is summer in Texas and now it's humid as well. This AC problem is a real pain in the [non-permissible content removed].
Anyone heard of anyhting else on this- specially somethign that actually fixes the problem.
Example: Yes, the manual states to use recirculation to cool down the car faster HOWEVER you must also use your head. The whole reason to use recirculate (in that case) is because the cooler the incoming air, the easier it is to cool it. When you first get into the vehicle, in most cases, the air inside is MUCH hotter than outside.
Here is the LOGICAL way to deal with this. When you first start the vehicle, roll down the BACK windows and let the HVAC take over. Once the air inside the vehicle has cooled down some, close the BACK windows and, a minute or so later, use the recirculate button.
The auto climate control SHOULD NOT automatically recirculate the air. This has to be manually controlled because the auto manufacturer is not going to take on the liability of someone getting "gased" (many cars have small exhaust leaks). In fact, GM cars have had the "flow-through" system for years where, even when the HVAC controls are off, there is still air circulated throughout the car.
Regarding the fan issue in AUTO. It's a judgement call, but I think they have done the right thing (ALL LUXURY GM cars with ACC are like this). There are actually two very good reasons for not having FULL FAN in Auto. The logic is this - A lot of the time the system works at full throttle. For luxury car buyers, to have the system fan on high for so long would get very annoying. The other is plain old physics. The air coming out of the registers ACTUALLY changes degrees depending on the fan speed. Air coming out, while in cooling mode, at high speed is WARMER than at lower speeds. It's quite simple. The faster the fan speed, the less time the air is in contact with the cooling grids, the less heat/humidity is extracted from the air.
Simple physics.
Now just a commentary about Auto Climate Control: Auto Climate Control is designed to keep the vehicle at a set temperature while PLEASING as many people as possible. It is not designed to think for you or me and figure out how we want our air delivered.
You like your AC recirculated immediately and at it's highest speed while I don't want that stale, super heated air blown at me at full blast.
Called up GMC directly (800 GMC TRUC) and I was told they have had no such compalints on file.
They opened a file for me as well as call my dealer directly and spoke to my service manager.
I was asked to keep a log of when this happens and look for any patterns (rain, time of day, etc).
So far 3 of the 4 times, it has been raining or I had just washed the truck. The last time (this morning) it was in my garage (however humidity has been higher than normal the last 2 weeks- don't know if that has anything to do with it). If you have the same issue go ahead and call GMC direct (or have the dealer call them).
I was told that if more people complain of this they would prgressively get more departement involved including their engineering dept that might help locate any faulty design or part.
To paraphrase the problem:
AC will not blow cold air when truck is started- even after leaving it on for 10 or more mintues.
As soo as it gets re-started, the cold air starts flowing.
However, it can have been done in one sentence.
"If you want recirculation on, PRESS THE BUTTON!"
What has the world come to where we spend so much energy complaining about turning on lights and pressing buttons?"
Geez, we've even got auto-volume adjustment. How 'bout an argument about how that doesn't work well enough?
How long before we start complaining that the thing doesn't drive on its own?
While I'm at it, I may as well toss in the obligatory:
"I wonder what GMDRONE thinks about this."
I think a lot of you folks need to drive my '67 Chevelle for a day to see how it used to be. No A/C, no rain sensing wipers, no power windows, no power door locks. It doesn't do jack for you.
They replaced the actuator and everything is fine.
There are obviously many ways GM could have handled the recirc and fan issue. Also, there are other manufacturers who have implemented it differently.
That doesn't change the premise this thread started on... The manual states, "The air inlet will normally be set to outside air. If it's hot outside, the air inlet will automatically switch to recirculated inside air to help quickly cool down your vehicle."(p. 3-5)
Three pages later, the manual states, "Also while in AUTO mode, the system will maximize its performance by using recirculation as necessary." (p. 3-8)
However, based on our unscientific poll, it looks like nobody's AAC actually functions like this.
So, either the manual is incorrect, or it appears all of our AAC's are not functioning properly.
Which is it??
Btw, my manual version is 2/25/02.
One other possibility. Perhaps the recirculate is functioning as written in the manual, but in auto mode the light on the recirc button is not illuminated.
My $0.02,
Dave
When I picked up my vehicle, the vents would go to zero velocity after the fan was running on high for 30 seconds. The only way to get fan back on at all was to turn off the climate control and turn it back on. If I never turned on maximum blower, the vent would work indefinitely.
This was easy to replicate for the dealer, (turn on max blower, wait 30 seconds, zero breeze)
They replaced a module #52494707, and in my case it completely fixed the problem.
Dave
http://store.yahoo.com/rodi/parpardev.html
I was having difficulty judging how close to the wall in front that I needed to be so I could easily open my liftgate without hitting my garage door in back of me so I installed this parking device and it accurately "parks" my Envoy in the same spot every time!
Takes less than 5 minutes to install and runs for a year on 4 "AA" batteries.
Anthony
Just kidding, but your post did provide me with a much needed midday chuckle at work. THanks
Axsysman,
Thanks for the A/C info. If it happens again, I will check the passenger (and rear seat passenger) air to see if it is cold.
Thanks.
JAW
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steven
When the AC will not blow cold air on engine start up, the fan still does work. It just does not get cold no matter how long you wait. After a restart, the air becomes cold immediately.
Just got the truck washed and as soon as I started the engine- there it was- no cold air; just fan air. Re-started it and "poof", magic.. the air got cold.
Still keeping my log for when I take it into the dealer again.Next time it happens, I think I will call OnStar to see if they can run one of their "remote" dignostics.
Pretty sure there is an interlock to prevent compressor start until the engine is running. This causes a monentary delay.
On all the GM vehicles I have owned with auto CC, they do default to outside air. I don't believe the fresh air/recirculate option is retained after power down.
It is quite possiblt that the a/c in the trips does automatically move to recirc for more rapid cooldown. This seems to be automatic and temporary, based on the sensor settings. It is quite possible this occurs with NO visible indication being provided. The design work to illuminate the dash a/c button probably was deemed unnecessary. Another issue is when anything happens automatically, some drivers will try to override it if they can. This might create more problems for the system than just following the program.
Max fan at startup.
Probably depends on fan capacity. The fan speed setting may well be optimized for max cooling without being at highest speed. Some folks like to crank the fan to high and leave temp a little higher for driving economy. Also, the same system dispenses heat, so there is a trade-off for providing heat or a/c.
Bravada flaring shifts ( engine roar)
I had this problem in my Bravada. It was cured by the dealer reprogramming the EPROM. I wanted lowest speed shif points.
However, 2x4's on the floor also do the trick for me.
the problem of no cold air on start remains there even when the Auto option is disabled and manual is done.
before you go on about having to leave it alone before it cools down- don't worry that was tried already.
So far 5 times in 2 weeks and the AC is constantly on.. it's in the 90s w/ high humidity. Perfect timing for this AC problem to start.
Happy 4th.
Sounds like the conditions in which you have this problem may cause that portion of the system to go tilt.
Anybody have success having the weather sensors relaced?
I wish I could keep my TB IN overdrive. It falls out, even downshifts, at the smallest suggestion of inclination in the road.
3.42 gears could explain the constant shifting but it angers me that a legitimate factory option is not accompanied by the appropriate operational characteristics that made me want the 3.42 gears in the first place - improved highway mileage. The incessant shifting gives me 16.x mpg without cargo or trailer, 60-70 mph, and light foot. Combined is 12.x mpg (heaven forbid I did only city driving).
The larger tires on the 17" wheels could be a contributor also. Don't know enough about it.
The vehicle is everything I wanted and expected except for the gas mileage and unconfident transmission.
Good luck to you, ficuss, and those others reporting on this board - a rough guess is about 2/3 - who get 17 or more mpg.
Ed
Let me add that it could be that the people who warned you about the dim headlights might have really been referring to the symptom, reported here, of the headlights dimming momentarily from time to time.
Like others here, the lights on my TB are bright as can be (although GM got as far as rain-sensing wipers, I wish they had gone the rest of the way to xenon lamps), and again, like others here, I have experienced momentary dimming.
Have fun choosing a vehicle.
Ed
Paulm99
All this is from the GM site (not sure whether or not I can post the link here).