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Probably less to do with ABS and more to do with injury rates and repair costs.
I was looking at both the Spectra and Elantra, and they are virtually the same car, but an Elantra costs more to insure. The only way I can think an insurance company can justify it is that they must be paying out more frequent claims on Elantras (since the cars would cost about the same to repair for a given accident).
Exactly. If a car is involved in more accidents or is stolen more frequently it would make sense to have higher insurance rates for that car. The Mazda Protege and its hatchback version, the Protege5, are another example.
I find myself in a holding pattern re "which hatchback?" I'll be buying a new car next year and prefer a hatchback. I'm first on the waiting list at my local Honda dealer for a 2009 Fit (base AT). From what information is available now, I think it will be an ideal fit (sorry) for my needs. But I am hedging my bets, in case I don't like it. Another hatch I'm going to take a close look at is the 2009 Elantra Touring. I like the fact that ESC is standard, and I like the styling and interior. The Versa is another candidate, but I suspect I'll like the Fit better. The new Matrix is more powerful, thirsty, and expensive than I'd prefer. The Scions are not my cup of tea styling-wise. The Rabbit 3-door is a possibility, but it would cost more than the Fit and have worse fuel economy and not as versatile in hauling people and cargo. I'd look at the SX-4 and Impreza if I needed AWD, but I don't. I don't like the styling or interior quality of the Caliber, and it's FE isn't that good.
What am I forgetting (that isn't forgettable)?
Personally, if I were looking for a small hatch right now, I think the Rio5 would also be a strong contender. I was shocked and pleased when I test drove a Rio Sedan in 2005, but the 5 door wasn't yet being sold in the U.S.
I was shocked by the Rio also--shocked that it got a "Poor" in the IIHS side crash test. So the Rio5, and its cousin the Accent hatch, are a no-op for me. Also I don't see that the Rio5 will cost much less, comparably equipped, compared to the Fit, which I think is a superior car even as a 2008 model, except for the great driver's seat on the Rio5.
I own a 2003 Suzuki Aerio SX 2wd with approx. 43K miles. Everything has been fine until this year.
First....grinding brakes. Note that the brake pads did NOT need to be replaced, they were fine, just Suzuki's inability to maintain lube on the break components (according to my mechanic...but if that sounds like a crock, please let me know).
That problem has since been fixed (it took 4 visits to the shop, but at least that problem is "at bay" for now).
Now for the doozy and where I really need some help.
Recently, after getting my battery replaced (it died), my "check engine" light went on. Apparently I had a spark plug that needed replacing. Right after that happened I noticed that at higher speeds (50-60 mph) the car would "jump" and almost loose power when I took my foot off of the accelerator. Left it with the mechanic today, and he thinks it may be a tranny issue. Fuel injector cleaner has been done and all other services have been maintained. Could it really be a tranny issue or is my mechanic full of it?
And if it is a tranny issue, does anyone know what the Suzuki warranty is on such issues and the expiry of such warranty's? Keeping in mind I bought the car in Canada in 2003 and then moved to the US the following year (only mentioning as I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the warranty).
Before I pick up the phone and call Suzuki myself, I thought I would put these issues out there to see if anyone has any wise advice. As I'm sure you can see, I'm in need of some as I'm not exactly a car expert!
Thank you for your words of wisdom in advance!
Barring misuse, a tranny issue on a 4 year old car with only 43K miles sounds unusual to me. Is your mechanic a Suzuki dealership mechanic or an independent? Work on trannies can be expensive; it may be a good idea getting a second opinion before proceeding.
tmbc
If you must have a rear seat that reclines a lot, you might look at the Mazda5, which has two captain's chairs in the 2nd row. I don't know how far they recline, but they probably recline more than a standard rear seat would. It might squeeze under your mpg limit.
Do you know of specific small vehicles that do have some degree of reclining rear seats? I dont' really care if it is a hatchback, wagon or sedan. One option I am considering is looking for a preowned Malibu Maxx. I am also considering the Mazda5, but want to wait for the 08s to arrive.
We are currently in a Hyundai Accent. When we drive for more than about 20 minutes, the kids (9 and 10 yrs old) fall asleep, then end up laying across the bench, held in only by the loosened lap belt. If I can find a vehicle where they can can lean back a bit, perhaps they will at least stay upright behind the shoulder belt.
tmbc
If you live in or near a city with an auto show, it is getting to that season now (mine is in March). That is a quick way to find all the cars with reclining rear seats, and let your kids check them out.
Why wait for the '08 Mazda5s? Are they much different from the '07s? You might be able to get a big discount on an '07. While at Mazda, look at the Mazda3s and Mazda6 hatches also, their seats may recline a bit.
Have you looked at small SUVs, e.g. CR-X and Tucson? They may have reclining rear seats. Most may not make your 25 mpg limit, but the CR-X might.
My question was are there any Hatchbacks that can compete with the FIT's safety, MPG , quality, reliability, price.
A fitting question for this discussion. I think the answer to that is "yes." Here's some possibilities:
2009 Yaris 5-door: The Yaris got excellent crash test results on the IIHS frontal and side impact tests--Good on both. The rear test was not as good, but then the Fit's latest score wasn't very good either--the 2009 should improve there. The Fit has ABS and 6 airbags standard, and those are available on the Yaris but not standard (maybe for 2009 they will be?). The Fit offers VSA only on its highest trim level, Sport with nav. The Yaris doesn't offer VSC. FE wise, the Yaris bests the Fit. Quality and reliability? Honda vs. Toyota, pretty even there. Price? The Yaris' pricing starts lower than the Fit's, although comparably equipped they are pretty even.
Versa 5-door: Safety-wise, the Versa runs the table on the IIHS crash tests: Good/Good/Good, a rarity for small cars. It has six airbags standard but ABS is optional. ESC is not available. FE-wise, the Versa is very close to the Fit. Quality-wise, the Versa is very nicely trimmed for an inexpensive car, with plush seats. Reliability-wise, the Fit has the advantage, with CR rating the Fit much above average and the Versa average. But price-wise, the Versa is considerably less than the Fit, although you can order some options on the Versa like a killer sound system, Bluetooth, Intelligent Key, and moonroof that put it in the same territory price-wise as the Fit Sport w/o nav.
Matrix/Vibe: Really a class up from the Fit in size (based on the Corolla), yet the Matrix and Vibe can be had very nicely equipped for the same money as a Fit Sport. They offer the latest safety features including ABS and six airbags standard, VSC is widely available, FE is about the same as the Fit (unless you get the 2.4L engine), and offer traditional Toyota quality and reliability (although IMO some of the interior bits look/feel cheap).
Elantra Touring: Due for late 2009, this is a 5-door wagon version of the Elantra SE. Like the Matrix/Vibe, it's a class up in size from the Fit. It will offer best-in-class interior volume, tons of standard safety features including ESC, ABS, and six airbags, FE very close to that of the Fit (based on the Elantra sedan's FE) but with a 138 hp engine, standard 16" alloys with 17 inchers optional, and excellent quality and reliability (the Elantra sedan is rated much above average for reliability by CR). Price-wise, it's a guess at this point, but the previous-generation Elantra hatch was just a few hundred more than the sedan, and the Touring is close in equipment to the SE. So a good guess is around $17.5k for the MT, $18.5k for the AT--in the range of the Fit Sport w/o nav.
There's some other really good hatchbacks out there, including the Impreza (with AWD), Mazda3s, and Rabbit, that would be in the same price ballpark as the Fit Sport, but they are all a notch down from these other cars in FE--but also a notch up in power.
UPDATE: I just found out that the 2009 Yaris will have ABS and 6 airbags standard! Woo-hoo! Also, the 5-door with AT starts at $13.3k--a heckofadeal compared to the base Fit, although I expect the base Fit has more equipment standard, e.g. power package.
In any case, a thousand thanks for indulging me so thoroughly. This is tremendously helpful. I plan to test drive each of these cars--I'm really curious now!
Have a fantastic day, backy :-)
(Wonder how many others are peeking over here too from the FIT forum?)
Unless you have to have super-high FE, be sure to check out the Rabbit, Mazda3, and Impreza also. They are very nice cars. The Impreza is the best of class for safety--the only IIHS "Top Pick" of small cars. The Mazda3 is a blast to drive, especially with a stick. And the Rabbit is a very refined little car and pretty reasonably priced in 3-door form.
I am.
I'm already feeling very guilty not going for the Prius, but it's just a bit too high for my budget right now, and I think things are going to be much more competitive what with solar panels and plug-ins and so forth in the next 2-5 years...
I do still have my 2004 Elantra GT hatch but am getting ready to turn it over to my middle son for school. He'll use up the rest of the powertrain warranty.
So I'll be getting another car this fall, which eventually will go to my daughter. Hence my interest in hatchbacks like the Elantra Touring. If the 2009 Fit had VSA in base trim, it would probably be my top choice (assuming I like how it drives).
The Rio5 doesn't cost much less than the base Fit but has inferior crash protection, among several other deficiencies compared to the Fit. So I'll pass on that one too.
For driving alone, I really prefer the Mazda3. I need to try the Honda again, because the dealer was a jerk and didn't give me much time with the car. But the Mazda has a much nicer finish on the inside, and I really like the way it drives. I guess another plus for the Mazda is that I can get ESC. I don't know how important this is - but if it really is an important safety feature, I'll get it. (I know ESC is available with the Fit, but I'm not going to pay an extra $1500 for ESC with Nav.)
The big issue for me with the Mazda is gas mileage. From a Mazda thread on MPG, it sounds like most people in the hatchback get about 25mpg combines, and around 30 on the highway. I'm in an old Civic hatch now, and get about 32 combined. So going down 7mpg to 25 sounds pretty bad.
The main plus for the Fit is fuel economy. I also have more confidence in Honda reliability than Mazda (my current civic has 178k with few problems). But for a new car, I think they should both be pretty good. Before my tests drives yesterday, I was really prepared to love the Fit over everything else. But I was just a little disappointed with the finish on the inside and the way it drove. It felt a little cheap to me on the inside. I know it's an economy car - so cheap isn't bad. But the Mazda finish was a lot nicer. The driving on the Fit was ok. But as I said, I really didn't have much time in it, and the dealer was kind of distracting with his chatter. But it wasn't nearly as fun as the Mazda. I realize that the 3 vs the Fit may not be a fair comparison - maybe it's a little bit of apples vs oranges. The Mazda engine is much bigger - so it makes sense that it's more fun to drive and also gets worse mpg.
Anyone else comparing these two vehicles side by side? Thoughts?
Another thought: the 3 hasn't changed much since 2004. So you could get a pre-owned 3s hatch for less than the Fit, and the savings could make up for the FE difference. You could get the extended Mazda warranty if you are concerned about repairs, and it would still probably come out less than the Fit Sport.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f116e5c/42#MSG42
A true hatchback has a rear window/hatch that is sloped around 45 degrees (give or take) and has a hard hatch deck (cargo cover) that hangs from the hatch door and drops into place when the hatch is closed. The 2001-2005 Elantra GTs were like this, as were the Mazda 626 hatchbacks of the late 80s.
Every 5-door I see now has gone the "wagon" approach. The rear window/hatch is much more vertical and the cargo cover is some sort of soft retractable material. I really do not like this design and am very sad to see that the true hatchback design seems to have disappeared.
Does anyone know if there are any true 5-door hatchbacks out there (for sale in the USA) that I have missed (based on my definition above)? If so, you will make my day if you can point me in the right direction!
Good luck!
Probably the closest to the old Elantra in anything priced reasonably is the Honda Crosstour. BMW has a 5 Series hatch that to my eyes has similar lines to the Elantra's, but real pricey.
I am avoiding the expensive models - could never see the benefit of paying so much for a BMW or Mercedes when the quality of the Japanese and Korean cars is just as good (and the replacement parts are MUCH cheaper, too).
I looked at the Imprezza, but was not impressed with the gas mileage. It does have more slope to its hatch, looking better than the competition, but it still uses the soft retractable cargo cover.
I also looked at the Honda Crosstour, but it is out of my price range and does not come with a manual transmission option. I don't think you can get one any cheaper than about $29,000.
Thanks for the reply!!
Ford Focus SE 5MT: Plusses are a slick 5-speed stick, composed chassis, excellent EPA fuel economy numbers, and a flat load floor. Also it will likely be the lowest priced car (if purchased new) with available discounts and incentives. Minuses are, I'm not crazy about the dash design, the rear seat is a little tight for legroom, and the standard wheel covers aren't very nice looking (and alloys are an expensive option).
Mazda3i Touring 6MT: Plusses are a sweet 6-speed short-throw stick, great handling, excellent EPA fuel economy numbers, standard alloys, and standard Bluetooth. Minuses are limited exterior colors (no red for example), no USB port, and price is high in the group.
Subaru Impreza 2.0i Premium 5MT: Plusses are AWD, good handling (based on a drive of a Limited sedan), standard alloys and Bluetooth, and a flat load floor. Minuses are low EPA fuel economy for the group, and a high price for the group.
VW Golf 2-door 5MT: Plusses are great interior quality, composed ride and handling, exceptional driver's seat, smooth shifter, low list price for the group, and 3 years of covered maintenance. Minuses are only 2 doors, low EPA fuel economy for the group, limited interior colors (black only), and a center console and Bluetooth are extra cost ($600, which includes bun warmers).
I've driven all of these except the Impreza, which I've only driven in Limited sedan trim with the CVT. The ride of that car was a little harsh, but it had 17" alloys vs. the 16" wheels on the Premium.
FE is important in the decision, but I've found I can't go only by the EPA numbers. For example, when I tested the Golf I got over 40 mpg on the highway, at 60-65 mph. That plus my experience owning a somewhat similar car (2007 Rabbit) tells me I should be able to exceed the car's EPA ratings. The Focus exceeded its EPA highway rating in my test (mostly highway), while the Mazda3 was just under but it was a cold day and my route included some suburban streets in addition to highways. The Impreza Premium also exceed its EPA highway number in my test (mostly highway).
One advantage of the Golf is that it's available as a VW CPO car with the same design as the current car, at a considerable savings over a new car. The Focus, Impreza, and Mazda3 Skyactiv are all brand-new so would not be easily available as a used car.
Next I plan to drive the Impreza 5MT, as soon as I can find one!
The Rio5 dropped off my list after I drove it (and it didn't have a good IIHS test result either). Rougher ride than the Accent, and less cargo room, plus I like the interior of the Accent better. I don't need all the extra features a loaded Rio5 offers. For that kind of money, I'd rather go for the Mazda3/Golf/Impreza/Focus.
Fit is too noisy for me (but I love the handling and roominess), and I don't like the interior of the Sonic or Yaris.
However. since the 2013 model is going to be a !.8t. I'm afraid of of it do to its past prblems.
So, I'm going with the Elantra HB Touring limited ,if it comes here. the only probem is ,how do I modify it for a lumbar drivers seat?
The Mada 3 Gt HB has it all, but I can't get by the smile.
Since I can get a low-miles CPO Golf for significantly less than even a new Focus SE hatch, the used Golf will be enticing when it comes to buy. The main problem is, in order to get a regular Golf with a stick I'd need to get the 2-door, which is less convenient than 4 doors ala Focus or Mazda3. But I like the looks of the 2-door Golf better than the 4-door.
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I'll have to chek it out again.
I hope Hyundai's good rep doesn't boost the prices too much.