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Which Hatchback?

leomortleomort Posts: 451
edited March 2014 in Nissan
Hello Everone! Sorry about that. I'm new to the edmund's townhall website and not sure how to post yet. I'm serious looking into getting a 5 door hatchback. My choices are VW Golf GLS 1.8T, Mazada Protege Sport Wagon, Subura Impreza Wagon (technically a station wagon put close enough to hatchback status), Hyundai Elantra GT, or Ford Focus ZX3. Number one concern is reliability and durability. It would be nice if the car came (or had the option) with four wheel disc brakes, antilock brakes. Decent engine horsepower and torque would be nice. Good gas mileage, say 30 mpg highway? Good cargo space with rear seat up. Would it be too much to ask for decent rear leg room? Need the car to last 1000,000 miles (trying to compare these hatchback reliability to my Toyota---is the reasonabe or fair request?). My budget $18,000 MSRP. Is this do-able? Or am I asking too much from a hatcback. I have the luxury that I can easily wait until late this year or early 2002. Thanks for any advice and suggestion. Just recently found this website and find it very informative.

Leo M.
«13456716

Comments

  • roadroachroadroach Posts: 131
    I'm not sure how to break this to you but:

    My info tells me that the Golf is available either as a 3-door hatch or 4-door sedan, the Protege is only available as a 4-door sedan, the Elantra is only available as a 4-door sedan, and the Focus is only available as a 3-door hatch or 4-door sedan. Unless you're talking used cars, I think the market is VERY small for 5 door hatchbacks (unless you count small SUV's as a 5-door hatchback).

    If I'm wrong, someone please set me straight but since the SUV/minivan market has exploded, small wagons and 5-door hatches are almost extinct.

    Since you've had good luck with Toyota, howzabout a nice RAV4?
  • Yes, the Golf is available as a 5 door. If after driving it and the other cars, you don't make friends with your VW dealer I'd be very surprised.

    The Golfs are still made in Europe, unlike the Mexican production New Beetles and Jettas though this is supposed to change at some point. Should be reasonably reliable and there is a 10 year, 100k mile powertrain warranty. If you're into the car for the long haul (especially if you start thinking 200k miles rather than 100k miles), I'd also test drive the 1.9L TDI. 18k is going to be tight to buy a 1.8T I fear. The good Impreza model is the forthcoming WRX model, but then you'll be looking at 24k. The Ford is a 3 door.
  • My Golf certainly is a 4 door hatch (the hatch is considered a 5th "door"?). At any rate, I've been VERY satisfied with my Volkwagen. It's 1 year and a half old, I've turned just over 25K miles, and I've had no problems with it whatsoever. I'm not aware of any other 4 door hatches on the market that I can think of off hand, besides the mini-wagons like the Subaru. I like the number of standard features on the VWs such as ABS and 4 airbags. Everyone that's ridden with me seems to like it, but the important thing is that you shop all the comparable cars, and then make a decision based on what's most important to you.
  • roadroachroadroach Posts: 131
    For whatever reason, I thought VW had stopped production of 5-door. I think duvernois may be right: your $18k target will be tight.
  • roadroachroadroach Posts: 131
    Does a wagon count as a 5-door hatchback? If so, then Hyundai does offer an Elantra wagon, Daewoo offers a Nubria wagon, and Saturn offers a couple of wagons.

    Of these three, I would recommend the Saturn SW2. But if you can swing the price, the Golf 1.8t would be much more rewarding to drive and own.
  • floridianfloridian Posts: 219
    Roadroach: No one mentioned the Focus wagon ? The Elantra wagon is history, none for 2001 but a four door "hatch" coming in the spring. Kia is supposed to be coming with a RIO wagon soon too. The Suzuki Esteem is a really nice spiffy little wagon too but a bit pricy for it's group. As to the Dawoo Nubira, well, it is a nifty little job but gee I don't know if I'd chance a Daewoo until they get their financial house in order OR some other mfg. takes over and pumps some money into them. Just my take on things

    Floridian
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Gentlemen,

    Thank you for your responses. I believe that I read here on this website that Hyundai Elantra is coming out this spring with it's 5-door hatch back. Also Mazda Protege Sport Wagon--a 5 door hatch back is also coming out later this spring as a 2002 model (seen it here on Edumund's LA Car show). I'm aware that the Ford Focus does come as a 5 door hatchback, at least in Europe, but thought I heard that Ford was bringing it to the States as well---perhaps I'm mistaken with Ford?

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Roadroach,
    If I can't find what I'd like in a hatchback, I would regrettable cough up the extra cash and go with either the RAV4 or Subaru Forester. Should be able to get those in the low 20's price-wise.

    Duverois,

    You're probably right in that the VW Golf GLS 1.8T might be a little more than I had planned to spend on a hathback. I would expect my next car to be reliable enough to last at a minimum to 100,000 miles, preferable 200,000 miles--my toyota is close to that mileage (151,000+) and still going strong.

    I have several concerns regarding each car. For example on the VE Golf GLS 1.8T does the turbo affect engine wear and durability? Is turbo know to cause any negative effect on engine wear such as head gaskets, etc? Also, this engine require premimum gas which kind of contradicts this hatchback being economical. The back seats seem a little cramp. I can't see how three adults can fit back there. It looks like two would be it's limit and cramped legroom. The cargo area didn't seem very large for a hatchback (with rear seat up). I do like its gutsy engine and that it's standard equipment lis is impressive to say the least. Probably only need tp add an automatic.

    The Subara Impreza wagon. Plus: Subara's reliablity, all wheel drive. Negatives: need larger engine such as the 2.5 that goes in it's sedans. More rear legroom and more cargo space with rear seat up. Perhaps Subara will address this in their 2002 wagon model???

    Ford Focus-assuming they bring the 5 door hatch back over here. Biggest negative:reliabilty. Which will proably have me exclude it from consideration.

    Hyundai Elantra GT. If it's base on its seadan it should have good rear seat legroom. Peppy engine, all wheel disc brakes, ABS either standard oroptional. Hope it has good cargo space. Price the cheapest and has the best warranty. Negative: Questionable reliability. Availability of parts and their cost?

    Mazda Protege Sport Wagon. Also looks good. Protege's are known for their spaceous interior. It gets a peppy engine, all wheel disc brakes w/ ABS. Mazda is typically over shadow by Toyota's and Honda's so hopefully they should have good rebates, incentives and financing.

    Leo
  • roadroachroadroach Posts: 131
    Strike Two on me. The Focus IS available here in the states as a wagon. From what I understand, standard equipment on the Focus SE includes the more powerful 130hp 2.0l engine. I believe the MSRP is around $17k.

    Personally, I would choose between the Focus, Saturn, Suburu, VW, or Protege (when it is available). I'm just not too wild about the Korean cars. But whatever you do, DRIVE as many of the choices as you can.
  • I would read some of the other entries about the Ford Focus. Having owned a ford and i can attest to the (Fix Or Replace Daily) acronym. Some of the reports on Focus are turning up experiences with some pretty shoddy quality. Have you test driven a focus? Any focus? I have, and I have no idea why people praise it's handling. Granted Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, and Mazda do not currently have hatchbacks to compete with the focus, but if the sedans handle in any way similar to what I experienced, the Focus is put to shame. Taking the same bumpy curved freeway on ramp in each of these 2000 model vehicles gave me an idea of their stability. Every other vehicle seemed to hold their stance, but the tall body and high ride of the Focus leaned, shuddered, and swayed pathetically. Not to mention it's feeble acceleration felt almost like the low torque civic. The protege, even with it's mere 105 faired better.
    If you can wait till June 2001, I've heard 2 sources that state that the 5 door sport from Mazda will be out. If you can wait till Jan 2002, Toyota may be bringing the Matrix with possibly the 1.8L celica engine in it's high end trim.
    As for your other 5 door options. The only ones I can think of you found already. The hyundai elantra doesn't make the wagon this year, and I haven't even seen a hint of the supposed hatchback. The gas mileage in korean makes (kia, daewoo, hyundai) is far lower than their japanese counter parts though. If you purchased a VW, you might consider why VW started offering nice powertrain warranty (to bring back customers because of many previous powertrain problems). Also if you buy a german vehicle you have to pay the price for buying german parts when the time comes, and they're often more expensive than japanese or domestic parts. I have heard some nice things about Saturns customer service, and I have heard some horror stories about the problems that previous Saturn owners have had. I personally know of someone who has had to deal with multiple engine leaks etc. Plus, there's that annoying bar that remains in the way when you fold down the split seats. And the cargo cover is such a hastle to get on those little knobs for how easily it gets knocked off. You know how some cargo covers are retractable rollers, the saturn just has a piece of vinyl with some loops on it.
    The subaru, nice, but out of our price and gas mileage range (and insurance on a 4WD is more expensive as well)
    So in the end this really leaves you with just waiting for the Mazda sportwagon or the Toyota Matrix (I don't know if you'll like the styling of the matrix though)But it does have flat folding seats and sliding tracks for loading. The mazda sportwagon however may have front seats that fold down and can serve as consoles for lab tops, your lunch, etc. Personally, since the protege ranked number 1 by Car and Driver in 2000, I'm setting my sights for room, economy, and performance on the Mazda sportwagon.
  • crashton6crashton6 Posts: 245
    Leo: Take a look at the Impreza wagon. It should meet all of your needs. Big plus if you live where it snows is all wheel drive. I have a Forester & can tell you from experience the traction is flat out amazing. The new Impreza wagons will have the 2.5 engine 165 hp. Same engine as the Forester. Nice power.

    Chuck
  • You may want to look at the VW Golf TDI. It's going to have more room than any of the before mentioned hatchbacks in your comparisons. It has more standard options and rates only second to the Beetle (which rates #1 in crash test in it's class) in safety test. The diesel engine will last far longer than a gas engine as well, not to mention the better gas mileage. Currently I pay 1.46 per gallon for diesel fuel thanks to the winter weather. That's about 7 cents more than regular unleaded, but on one tank of diesel I average about 510 miles before my warning light comes on alerting me that I only have 1.9 gallons of fuel left. The most I have got so far is 519 miles with no warning light driving between 65 and 70mph. I usually drive between 75 and 80mph.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Bannaslug,

    I was also interested in the Mazda Sport Wagon, until I heard they're putting Ford's Focus 2.0L engine into it. That's making me reconsidering it as a choice. Hmm, didn't know about the Toyota Matrix. Is going to be a "5 door" hatchback?

    Pheo,
    Thank you for the pictures of the Elantra. It looks pretty nice! It's still in consideration.

    Crahstest,
    I was looking at the Impreza Outback Sport. So that might be different than the Outback wagon? I'm not that familiar with Subara. It would be nice with the 2.5 engine. Took the wife to the Subara dealership. She didn't like the air scoope on the hood--made it look too sport --I'm thinking what's wrong with that :)-- where as she's think family transport. She also made a good observation in that both the Forester and Impreza Outback that the back cargo space has hugh wheel wells that cut into your cargo space and that it gets narrower towards that rear seat. So she didn't care for these two vehicles.

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Conficting reports on the 2.0L Mazda Protege Sprot Wagon's engine. I seen someone in Edmunds say it was a transplanted Ford Focus engine and then someone else saying it's totally designed Mazda engine. Can anyoe clear up the confusion?

    Leo
  • speedyptspeedypt Posts: 200
    ...uses a Mazda designed and built (in Japan) 2.0l motor. It's NOT the focus engine for sure. It's a version of the 626 motor.

    Pete
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Pete,

    THANK YOU!!!

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    It looks after doing some research that I've narrowed my selection for hatchbacks down to these two vehicles. Any opinions on these two vehicles, good or bad?

    Leo
  • The 5-door hatch I know best about is the one I own - a 2001 KIA Spectra.

    After moving last fall I now make a weekly 130-mile drive in middle of the night from California's High Desert to the coast. I encountered some snow and ice and decided it was time to put my aging '85 Nissan 300ZX Turbo aside for Saturday nights and buy a compact commuter car.

    Choosing such a vehicle would be a compromise. I work and am housed on an off-shore island throughout the week so had little time to get out to all the dealers and test them all. I went online to do most of my window shopping. Based on comments and the warranty I decided to test drive a 2001 Spectra.

    Before visiting the dealer I had the upscale GSX model in mind but was put-off by the upholstery and accent striping. I decided to forego some of the amenities and test drive the base GS models, both automatic and 5-speed.

    Mindful of comments I heard about the brakes, I did not experience any fade; I heard that may have been the only improvement made for 2001.

    I put about 20 freeway miles and several miles of twisty mountain roads on the 5-speed. The automatic I just drove locally but was particularly enthused. I saw in the specs that the torque curve was in the higher revs. Keeping the RPMs up it was surprisingly peppy and agile cornering.

    Satisfied, I bought a silver 5-speed GS with air conditioning. With floor mats, body molding strips, A/C, and destination charges, subtract the rebates, I paid $11.8K. Also worth mentioning is this is the FIRST time a dealer did not try to pad the price with add-ons like prep, extended warranty, or under-coating charges. What I saw on the lot is what I got, minus the rebates.

    At first my heavy-footed combined driving was getting about 28 MPG. Now after break-in I am getting a shade better than 30. On the highway this car likes to cruise along around 75-80 and is more than willing to go faster. No shakes or squeaks it is quiet but seems to have a sports-tuned exhaust at the higher revs, which adds a little zest to the driving.

    It is very roomy. I'm 6-foot and about 195 lbs. Larger cars have felt cramped in comparison. The seats have a lot of adjustment and are very comfortable for my two-and-a-half hour drive. It keeps getting better, I love to drive it. I felt embarrassed to be seen driving a KIA at first, now I'm proud of it.

    The only complaint I have is the long clutch and shifter throws. The shifter seems a little unsure and has taken some getting used to. I may look for an after-market shifter to correct this. Can someone out there recommend one?

    I bought this for basic transportation, but I just love the car. I hope this helps.
  • I have placed an order for a new car so I have to unload my 2000 Focus in Silver. It has Auto, Power everything, Factory CD player, factory 16 in wheels, a/c, and cruise control. I will sell the car with the waterproof seat covers and roof rack. I may also include the bike for a few more $$$. The car was bought in June 2000 and has 9900 miles on it. It has been faithfully serviced by the Ford dealership that it was purchased at. I have all of the records. The sticker was ~$16,500 and I paid about ~$15,200. I am selling it for $13,500. It is in perfect shape with NO dents, dings or scratches. I am the fanatical guy that parks way far out at the end of a parking lot to avoid these things. . It has also been garaged for all of its short life. VIN and complete pictures of the car available by request at [email protected] The car is in the Dallas metro area. Thank you for your time and have a great day!
    Ken
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    if u're looking into the Subaru Impreza 5dr hatch (dunno why it's called a wagon in US when it's called a hatch in the rest of the world). Anyways, the new generation Imprezas will get a 2.5l engine as base. And the prices are well within your budget. Other than the superb AWD, the car itself is well balanced. The interior has improved too not that it's better than the Golf GLX trims. But close if not similar. Power everything too. Shouldn't that be standard in this day and age?!
    The new Protege hatch is hot too. I would think it's the same size as the Impreza.
    Focus does have a 5dr hatch but it's not offered here. Only in Europe. Look real neato.
    Golf 5drs are good too. Abit pricy. If you absolutely want interior luxury then opt for a 1.8T golf 5dr. I doubt it has as much overall space as the Protege, Impreza and Focus 5drs. Yup. That's it.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Ramon,

    If Subura did put a 2.5L engine in their next generation Impreza Outback SPort Wagon (hatch back) that would put it back in the contender ring. If they increase the rear leg room, that would be even better.
    I'm looking for reliable vehicle that can reach close to 200,000 miles. Hopefully the vehicle won't be too expensive for parts and readily accessible. The 2001 Protege gets the 2.0L 626 engine. I heard Mazda's are good alternative for people who consider Honda's and Toyota's. So I hope Maxda's come close to Honda's and Toyota's reliability. I don't know how good the 2.0L 626 engines are.
    How reliable are Subaru's? Don't know anything about them. How expensive are parts and are they redily accessible?

    Leo
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    of subaru is top notch if not better than Honda and Toyotas. They are designed to be be tough. YOu don't see much used Subarus for sale cus owners drive them to the grown.


    Here's the official press

    release:

    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010208/il_subaru__2.html

    And the prices:

    WRX Sedan 2002MY MSRP*

    --

    5-Speed Manual Transmission $23,995

    -- 4-Speed

    Automatic Transmission $24,995

    WRX Sport Wagon

    --

    5-Speed Manual Transmission $23,495

    -- 4-Speed

    Automatic Transmission $24,495

    2.5 RS Sedan

    --

    5-Speed Manual Transmission $18,995

    -- 4-Speed

    Automatic Transmission $19,795

    2.5 TS Sport

    Wagon

    -- 5-Speed Manual Transmission $17,495

    -- 4-Speed

    Automatic Transmission $18,295

    Outback Sport

    --

    5-Speed Manual Transmission $18,695

    -- 4-Speed

    Automatic Transmission $19,495

  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    the 2.5 TS Sport Wagon and the outback sport would be in my price range. I[m not familiar with looks/style of Subaru. Is there a place I could get a look at? Do you know if they improved the rear seat room? I think they only had 33.? inches or rear legroom.

    Another question for you. Are turbo's supposedly hard on engine wear?

    last question, how are they on gas mileage since their AWD.

    sorry for all the questions, but my knowledge on Subura is (apparently) quite lacking.

    thanks for the help.

    Leo
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    why don't you head down to the Subaru Crew forum. It's at the Owner's Club section. They have alot of information about these new age Imprezas. Tell 'em ramon sent you and they will treat you well. Not like they don't.

    The turbo will not destroy the engine. Assuming you take care of it (regular oil change etc...) it will last quite a while.
    Subaru's AWD is apparently quite efficient. Small and lighter than the competitor's AWD system. Gas mileage may not be like an echo. You should be able to net at least 25mpg on the road. All the best.
  • You may also want to check on the Subaru page which can be found by clicking here. Subaru
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Subaru is a reliable car, however, there are some concerns you should consider. First, a turbo is an extra expensive part that generally fails long before the rest of the engine. Don't expect the turbo unit to last 200K, maybe 100-150K max. Also, turbocharged engines are under more stress than a regular engine so extra care must be taken if you want it to last as long. So, with that in mind, I would get the regular 2.5, not the new WRX. If fuel economy is very important to you, I would not bother with Subaru. The all-wheel drive system saps a lot of economy from the engine, which itself is a very large four banger. You should expect about 21 mpg in the city and 27 max on the highway. Another thing I find odd is Subaru's ranking in JD Power's initial quality surveys. I have always heard that they have long lasting engines and are very reliable, however, the Legacy, Forester, and Impreza all ranked very low in the survey, lower even than some products from Hyundai and Daewoo. Not sure what kind of problems put them that low, but it was rather surprising. You should look into that and take that into consideration.
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    is off. The stats are not reliable as they put brands like Honda down there too. Only the real expensive ones like Lexus and Bimmers gain recognition. In UK, the JD POwer durvey put the Legacy and Impreza as the first 2 in terms of owners satisfaction. Nuts. Other than the turbo engine, the car is pretty much teh same in quality. I dunno. I rather go with real world experiences and look at Consumer Reports as well.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    the Mazda protoge HB, ELantra GT HB is coming out as well as Subarus Impreza line up. Although not a hatchback, the corolla and camry are getting revamp for this year. All cars worthy of consideration in my opinion, at least what I'm looking at. Pricewise from what I can put together, the Proteg HB should be in the $18 grand range, the Elantra HB should be in the $15 grand range, the impreza line up ranges from 18-24 depending on what model you want. Not sure about the corolla or camry. But if camry would probably be the improve 4 cyl as I suspect the 6 cyl would be in the 24-26 grand range.

    Leo
  • otis12otis12 Posts: 171
    This surprised me. If you go to prnewswire.com and check the press releases in the auto section, you've see that Kia is reporting Spectra sales were down signigicantly in Feb. 2001 vs. 2000,and also year to date. With the Elantra and Protege 5-doors about to debut here this spring, I'm wondering if some 5-door HB fans like myself are holding off purchases until they can test drive all these models and then decide which one to buy.
  • serpentkiserpentki Posts: 20
    My guess is that other models' sales are down and yielding to the new Optima. Had they been on the lots when I was shopping I would most likely have purchased the Optima rather than the Spectra
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Another 5 door hatchback soon to be released. Join other participants in our new Mazda Protege - 5 door (2002) discussion. Happy Motoring! ;-)


    Pocahontas

    Host

    Hatchbacks Message Board

  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    JD Powers "Initial Quality" does not really assess initial quality, rather it simply rates a vehicle by all the complaints that an owner has about a vehicle after a certain set period (might be 6 months). So something like loose trim or poor AM reception (Something the caused the Porche 911 to drop in the standings) will count as much as a car whose engine explodes after only 500 miles.

    Unfortunately the only real measure of quality is not usually available for new models and that is how will the car hold up 2+ years into its life.
  • cjaccettacjaccetta Posts: 236
    Leo,

    Just like you I am in the market for a reasonably priced 5-door hatch. And you're right -- this is going to be a great year for such vehicles.

    I am also leaning very heavily toward the Elantra GT, but one vehicle that has drawn my attention is the upcoming Pontiac Vibe. It has a wagon's styling but looks sporty nonetheless. However, it won't be available until next year and I don't know if I can wait that long. I believe the early indicators are that it will sell between $17-$19k. It's got Toyota underpinnings so the reliability should be there.

    I saw several of the Mazda Sport Wagons when I was honeymooning in Bermuda last summer. They were really slick. IMO, Mazda is a very underrated car company. However, I'm thinking that the Sport Wagon will be pricey compared to the Elantra. Look at Mazda's Protege -- to get the "good" model, you're looking at paying 17 grand.

    I won't get into the Elantra since there is already a topic on that model. Performance matters aside, I feel it has the best feature content for the dollar. Hyundai seems to have nailed the value equation. And if anyone sneers at me for choosing a Korean car, I'll just tell them to stuff a sock in it. Then I'll go buy two plane tickets and take a vacation with the money I saved!

    PS - Leo, your profile states you are from Pittsburgh. Me, too. I grew up in Mt. Lebanon and now I'm a displaced Pirates fan living in New Jersey. Go Buccos!!

    Good luck in your search.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Ah a Pittsburgh fan. Can't wait to check out the new stadium. Got saturday tickets for a night game in May. They say the view is spectatular.
    The Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe looks like a nice hatchback. Only heard pricing of Toyota Matrix is slightly under the Rav4 but no specifics. GM version should be cheaper.
    Just seen the price on the Elantra GT here on the HB borad. Base price starts at 14 grand. Add options should max out around 16 grand.
    Mazda is around 16 grand base, add options and your in the 18-19 range.
    VW Golfs are expensive too. So much for economy HB. They're close to the 20 grand mark by time taxes, title etc. Ouch! Car prices have gone sky high.
    They wife and I are also looking at Subaru Foresters or Rav 4s. Not to much more $$$ than a comfortably equiped HB. Got sticker shock from these new car prices. Going to see if I can hold off if at all posible. I'll try to run my current car into the ground. Don't look forward to car payments.

    Leo
  • handydoghandydog Posts: 19
    I am looking at a hatch and am considering the Protoge s. the El antra T. From the pictures, both look good and the spews on the the sedans are comparable. Is there anyone who owns a Protoge AS sedan or an El antra sedan, are could give some info. as to how the two cars measure up?

    Thanks.

    P.., it must be spring, because Pirate fans are excited about the baseball season. Even here in AC people are talking about the Royals make a run at the playoffs. We'll see.
  • rsparrowrsparrow Posts: 60
    Looking forward to trying out the Protege 5 this summer. I went to a car show about a month ago and picked up a flyer for the Protege 5. Seems to have the same interior as a Protege ES...


    Speaking of hatchbacks, I read in Automobile magazine that Honda is coming back into this market segment with its European Civic hatchback! It's supposed to be introduced at the New York international car show this summer. According to the mag, I think it's supposed to arrive here in Si form. I think the car looks pretty cool...


    http://www.honda.co.uk/civic.html

  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    not too surprise that Honda is bringing back the Civic HB. My guess is because Toyota is bring out their HB. These two car manufacturers keep playing off each other----which is good for the consumer.

    Regarding the Elantra. My parent have the 2000 Elantra. Surprised by how nice they are, nice roomy interior especially the rear seat. Peppy engine too.

    Leo
  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    Well I think it has more to do with the fact that Hatchback sales are picking up in America. Sales for the VW Golf are up and I believe Ford moved 45,000 of the Focus ZX3 which is alot more than Honda moved of the last generation Civic Hatchback. I think what Honda didn't realize when they decided not to bring the Hatchback version of the current generation to the US was that the reason that one of the reasons that the last model didn't sell as well was that it was basically a stripper. Ford comes out with the ZX3, loads it equipment (some of which like the sunroof can only be had on the ZX3 version) and it sells well enough Ford decides to bring over the ZX5. Doesn't take a marketing genius for Honda to realize that iconic Civic is in danger of loosing its icon status...
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Honda claimed that there wasn't enough sales/demand for the Civic HB as the reason for dropping it and then Ford kicks their as*&% with the Focus! Someone was caught sleeping regarding consumer demand. It looks likes the HB market is starting to make a come back. Honda won't be able to offer stripped HB at premium prices any more. Too much competion. If Honda want to offer a 4 door HB through your hat in the ring and let competition begin. The conusmer finally has some decent choices regarding HB. That's a switch.

    Leo

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Honda claimed that there wasn't enough sales/demand for the Civic HB as the reason for dropping it and then Ford kicks their as*&% with the Focus! Someone was caught sleeping regarding consumer demand. It looks likes the HB market is starting to make a come back. Honda won't be able to offer stripped HB at premium prices any more. Too much competion. If Honda want to offer a 4 door HB through your hat in the ring and let competition begin. The conusmer finally has some decent choices regarding HB. That's a switch.

    Leo

    Leo
  • seguyseguy Posts: 133
    When is it supposed to arrive, if it does at all??? In the market for a HB and Minivan early next year. So far by price, safety and exterior looks alone, without the all important test drive, considering Elantra GT, ZX5, VW 5 dr (used 2000 1.8T if i can find one around). For minivan, MPV 3.0, Oddessy LX(don't want power doors), and upcoming Sedona. Any suggestions, appreciate it, thanks...
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    2003 Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe twin. Probably come out sometime in 2002. The Mazda Protege 5 is coming out this june, as 2002 model.

    Leo
  • bill_1bill_1 Posts: 97
    Well as far as I know the current plans do not involve bring the Civic 5 door to these shores; mostly the buzz has been that they are going to use the European Civic Type R (which is the new 3 door) as the basis for the next Civic Si. Perhaps if sales of that are as suprisingly strong as the the Focus ZX3s were Honda might consider bringing more of their hatchbacks over. Alot will probably also depend with what happens with the Elantra GT and the Focus ZX5.
  • estoesto Posts: 136
    There's been a lot of talk about the various 5 door hatches on the way from Hyundai, Mazda, Ford, Pontiac/Toyota. What about the currently available Kia Spectra? Is it just too poorly made?

    Erik
  • mpgmanmpgman Posts: 723
    The Matrix is supposed to beat the Vibe to the market place by about a year. Kelly Blue Book already has a preview of it on their web site at kbb.com

    Matrix could show up as early as this summer or fall as an early 02. The Vibe is set for 03. MPG with the base Rav-4 4 cylinder is about 27/32 with the automatic. Sticker to start around $15K. A sport version will have the Celica 4 at around 180hp, 6 speed manual and all-wheel drive.

    Sounds like it is worth waiting for to see if it is a baby Rav-4 or a souped up Echo with 5 doors.
  • tocantocan Posts: 118
    Personally, I find the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe almost as ugly as the Aztek, so I won't be waiting around for them. ;-)

    No one has discussed the Subaru Impreza TS Sport Wagon, which probably fits into this category too. It has a shape that seems very similar to the Protege5 (Sport Wagon). This one is actually currently available too. It is somewhat pricier than I expect the Protege5 to be, but does include AWD. It's considerably less pricy than the Impreza WRX Wagon (although obviously less powerful).

    I find that the hatch area (if that is the correct word) on the Golf is really small. It is almost like having virtually no space at all behind the rear seats. (Obviously if you put the seats down you will get more room, but that isn't what I want generally.) The Golf almost seems to be a Jetta with the trunk cut off, while most other HBs are the same length (or just slightly shorter) than their corresponding sedan.

    The Elantra GT is a much sleeker looking HB than the Protege5, but that means that the cargo room would be somewhat smaller. It is all in what you like. Personally, I'm still inclining toward the Protege5, but there is way more choice than I expected when I started my research.

    Nomi
  • serpentkiserpentki Posts: 20
    Personally, I like the Spectra. KIA is a quality built vehicle, new to the marketplace however. the Spectra is actually quite roomy, a bit larger and heavier than other cars in it's class. Consumer Reports tested it among 20 other makes for it's Car of the Year. The Spectra did not win but was given very high marks for it's handling, out-performing most of the other tested vehicles on the skidpad and nearly topped the field in the slalom.

    I have seen pics of next year's Spectra, the Spectra Wing. It has a restyled front end with chrome grille. The styling is much bolder than the current Spectra and more people should find it attractive. -SK
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    to consider, be sure to visit our Upcoming Hatchbacks Discussion.

    For your convenience, I'll also be linking this discussion into the Additional Resources box on the left hand side of this page.


    Happy Motoring!


    Pocahontas
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  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Are you sure you actually looked at the Golf's cargo space?? The Golf is rated at 16 cubic feet of space, more than just about any mid-size sedan on the market, even more than some full-size cars. I have test driven one and I found the cargo space to be quite large, usefully square in shape, and very tall in cargo height. I own the original Golf (aka the Rabbit) and its 10 cubic feet can accomodate a good amount of stuff without folding the rear seat down (about four large duffel bags with room to spare, enough for 3 people to take a weekend vacation). Believe me, the Golf has more room than you think.
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