Which Hatchback?

revka

You should copy/paste your question into our Kia Spectra discussion. Someone should be able to help you there. Good luck.

Revka
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Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

commuter100

I would suggest you don't make a decision until you test drive the Suzuki Aerio. It meets all your requirements including MPG and your budget. I got ABS, AWD, power, alum wheels and loads of other standard features and "out-the-door" price of $15,700 including tax and all that stuff. That includes a $2000 cash back, which was still advertised this morning at the Suzuki website. After hours of pre-test drive research, and a number of test drives, I chose Aerio over Vibe/Matrix, Jetta,and a few others of the compact wagon group. I wanted to be able to load my recumbent bike inside, have MPG up at 30 or so, and buy all the safety I features I could get in a compact wagon. I prefer to "wear out" a cheaper car, since I have a long commute (reference my user name) so the fact the I could get the AWD for thousands less than Vibe and Matrix, VW etc made a difference. I will be replacing whatever I buy in 4-5 years at 100-120G miles. I bought the SX with AWD and ABS. So far, three fillups into ownership, MPG is around 30 - better than promised. I like many things about the car, esepcially the quality of the sound system, and the quiet passemger compartment.

mpgman

Focus has a lot of room and a long option list, it's just the reliability issue that's a bugger. Pro-5 to me really lacked driver leg room and the center console arm rest was too low to be comfortable. It also felt cramped inside. Impreza is also a bit short on front leg room. Elantra GT (bought one of the first ones and have 34,000 great miles) seemed to have the rest beat for room, content, warranty, and price. None of these, save for maybe a Subaru or a Matrix will set any records for resale so it's a bit unfair to single out Hyundai. However, I too am intrigued by the new almost Camry sized Prius, and really want to take a good look at it this fall.

revka

If you have any insights to share on the Protege5 vs. Matrix XRS vs. 2.5TS Impreza vs. PT Cruiser, please join us in this new discussion. Perhaps you can help thenebean9 make a decision.

Thanks for your participation! ;-)

Revka
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Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

revka

I thought some of you might find this interesting: Ford SVT Focus vs. Mini Cooper S. Thanks for your comments!

Revka
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Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

spoilsport

check out the offset crash results at http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_small.ht- m#99005

I'll stick with my VW GOLF TDI. Safer in all tests, about the same TCOS, and probably a much longer life span.......for the car that is!

frenchcar

After checking out all of the above over a year ago with test drives, comparisons, inspections, etc. we traded in my wifes Focus ZTS for a Suzuki Aerio SX and have never regreted the decision. We have 17,000 miles on it with no defects or problems and love it more each day. Fast, comfortable, sits better than the others, good load space, reliable. We improved it with different tires, K&N air filter, Mobil One Oil and a dash cover. Just went out and bought a used Suzuki Sidekick and like it too but the Aerio is better on trips. Have had Saab, Volvo, VW, Toyota, and many domestic makes and French cars too but I am sold on Suzuki and think most road test magazines are prejudiced against them. Theyjust dont understand the company and its world philosophy. Be sure and test one out, you can do a lot worse. The Matrix just didnt fit right and the Golf drove great but the Aerio is cheaper to buy.

muffin_man

I'm a big Suzuki fan too, but what do you consider their world philosophy?

When I think of Suzuki, I think about the Swift GT and the Wagon R, neither of which are available here. I think about small, efficient, fun and fast cars, and I think that Suzuki is getting away from what I think of as "Suzuki."

When I look at the current US Suzuki lineup, I can't believe what's happened. Now, I think the Aerio is a great car, but I'm amazed and saddened (how dramatic was that?) that it is the smallest car they offer. Basically, GM is moving them in as a cheap Honda competitor, and I don't see why. EVERYONE is a Honda competitor! Bring over the top of the line Swift and market it as a cheap Mini competitor! Beat Honda at its own sport hatch game (And I own a 2002 Si, but I would love to see a Swift Sport over here). Why must Suzuki become YET ANOTHER also ran in the compact sedan/family sedan/quirky car segment, aka the forenza/verona/aerio, civic/accord/element, corolla/camry/scion xb, stratus/intrepid/PT cruiser, etc, ad nauseum, segments?

I suppose that GM is using Suzuki as a Korean competitor, which I think is unfortunate. I think that they should FIRST design a decent small car, and THEN use Daewoo as their Korean competitor. Let Suzuki do what Suzuki does best (at least in my own rather vivid imagination), make fun small cars.

Kirstie_H

A major magazine is looking to interview someone who considered buying a Prius or a Honda Civic hybrid, but decided it wasn't worth the extra $3,000 to $4,000 price premium over the regular gasoline versions of the Corolla or Civic.
Please respond by October 22 to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info.
Thanks!
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

chrisducati

For all of you that are thinking about an Aerio SX but can't get past the funky dash, It looks like a normal dash is up and coming. The Suzuki web site in Japan shows the new dash. Very nice.

backy

I just ordered a Prius with package 3 (rear window wiper and side curtain airbags). My alternative was an MPV. The Prius cost less up front ($21,024 after $500 discount, plus TTL), will probably qualify for either a tax credit or deduction for 2004, and of course will save a lot of gas over the 7-10 years I plan to own it. I decided the room and the versatility of the hatchback design was sufficient for my family 98% of the time; the rest of the time we'll just take 2 cars or rent a bigger vehicle (e.g. on our once-a-year long trips).

themanx

Backy? got rid of your Elantra?

Let us know how the Prius works for you..

ElantraSTan

backy

No, the Prius is the replacement for my '99 Grand Caravan. So we're "downsizing" a bit. The Elantra only has 24k on it and lots of years left in it--I plan to give it to my oldest son on his 18th birthday, 3 years from now, for college so he can use up the powertrain warranty.

thel

WRX: nice car, fast, AWD would be really great in the occasional bad snow storm I get here in MO. Due to the price and the rather, shall we say, pedestrian shifter, I passed. Dealer also didn't want to go anywhere near invoice even though supply is plentiful.....not sure why.

SVT ZX5: Fun, but rather ordinary, no extra bling vs. the regular ZX5 other than the performance for th eextra $$$. Good rebates, but the pedals are kinda close together. I passed b/c the asthetics weren't to my liking and I'm still scared of Fords after past history with Taurus and Sables.

Protege5: Best looking IMO by far. Weak, dinosaur of an engine, lousy dealers around where I live, lame duck model status (the 3 looks soooo nice) so......I passed.

VW: No dealers within 1.5 hours so no can do

Which brings me to my choice.....(drum roll)....the Toyota Matrix XRS!

It costs more than all but the WRX but the balance between performance, utility, and asthetics. My only complaints are the rather upright driving position and the shift up into 5th gear which feels like plastic on plastic.

backy

Did you look at the Elantra GT? Aerio?

thel

No. Performance was high on my priority list and the Elantra and the Aerio are both less punch than I was looking for. I'm also still not sold on the durability of these models. Since I usually don't keep cars very long (1-2 years) resale value is a big deal for me as well. Suzuki and Hyundai tend to be worse than average in resale value.

jchan2

if resale was a top priority, than the Matrix was the right choice for you. It'll be easy to unload a 2 year old Matrix whereas trying to unload a 2 or even 3 year old Elantra or Aerio will be a lot harder, as those are less appealing to used car shoppers.

backy

The Mazda6 5-door should be arriving in a couple of months--one of the few mid-sized hatchbacks out there, and one of the best looking IMO. Zoom zoom!

mohalen

Hello out there, I am a new owner of an elantra 5 door, about 2 months now. I have racked up about 3200 miles already and I love my car. No complaints yet, as I would hope no one would have complaints about there new car. If I had to give any advice about buying a new hatchback, I think test driving and personal preference is number one. I tested several cars but my blue hatch was the one I really wanted. It handles well at all speeds and during a few snow days in Chicago land it was fun driving my car. The only questions I would have are about the oil. Which ones are best, what types/brands, so on. And how often is it BEST to change the car oil? I know there is the conventional 3000 miles but I have also read that you can go as long as 7000 miles. Some insight would be appreciated.
For who ever is looking for a hatch, I would recommend the elantra.

mo

backy

Congrats on your new Elantra! You might get more responses if you post your question in the "Hyundai Elantra GT - 5 door" or "Hyundai Elantra: Problems and Solutions" board.

rotarykid

the five door 6 is a great looking car- I would have waited for one, but my wife needed a car NOW so we got the 6.

cartagram

Backy...back in Nov. when you ordered your Prius, you suggested that you're downsizing from a Grand Caravan to a more versatile around-town and short-trip hatchback, with the idea that you'd rent a minivan for longer trips.

That's our current situation...two Accords. We take two for 400 mile trips to the Gulf of Mexico, and plan to rent for the annual summer family vacation.

How has that worked for you? I was rather hot-to-trot to get a minivan, but total price and the fact we enrolled 2/3 of the kids in private school has made a minivan a luxury item to own.

backy

The lease on my '99 Grand Caravan Sport isn't up until the end of May, and right now my Prius is due to show up no later than May if current allocations hold up. So I can't directly answer your question right now. But it's interesting that you seem to have come to the same conclusion I did--that I use the full capacity of the big van only a few times a year, so why take the mpg and size penalty the rest of the year?

The GCS has been a good vehicle for us, but I don't believe in owning more car, and using more resources, than I have to. Economics did enter into my decision. A replacement van equipped the way I want it (e.g. Caravan SXT with ABS and split folding rear seat, or a MPV LX) would cost only $1000 less than the Prius at best (the MPV about the same as the Prius), and I'll easily make that amount up in the first two years on gas savings. But there were many other factors, too--a good feeling that I'm doing what I can to save gas and cut down on air pollution; having a car that is much easier to park and manuever around town; the fun of the technology; and driving something you don't see on every street corner. Even my 15 year old son thinks it's a cool car.

I did look closely at other reasonably priced 5-door hatchbacks, and of all of them the Matrix came closest to meeting my needs. But it's lacking in a few things in safety (no side curtains, middle seat 3-point seatbelt or headrest), luxury (the interior screams "economy car" IMO), economy (about 40% worse fuel economy), and emissions. Plus I like the looks of the Prius a whole lot better, and like how it drives better. So even though I figured the Matrix would come out about 75 cents a day less expensive over the first six years than the Prius, I went for the Prius.

Come May we'll see how my decision turns out. BTW, have you done any calculations on what it costs you to drive your two cars on a long trip vs. renting one van? It might actually be cheaper to rent. That's what I've figured for the rare long trips (about 3000 miles) my family takes--it would be cheaper to rent than to drive my own car, based on depreciation and wear and tear on the car.

cartagram

It sounds like we think alike here. I'm envious of the minivans driving kids to school each morning, but I love the small, quick sedan for the bulk of my daily driving chores. I'd been shopping for a minivan, and then the thought came up to enroll my two youngest in a religious private school, and then I was returned to the idea of saving dollars for more important ventures.

Haven't caluculated the cost (gas, depreciation, accident potential, etc.) with driving 2 cars vs. renting on minivan. I can tell you this, though. On one 2-car trip, we had to cart 3 passengers from the other family that journeyed with us--their father had to go into the hospital and we took his kids back with us.

In that case, a minivan would've come up short a couple seats.

Anyway, the ideal vehicle for me would be a 5-door Civic. The hatch would help transport the grass mower to the repair shop, and bring home those odd-sized commodities that often insert themselves into our lives.

Otherwise, a Civic would be a perfect accompaniment to my wife's Accord. (I'd just like a seat with more adjustments than the Civic offers.)

backy

The Honda Jazz is supposed to be in the U.S. in another year or so. That might be the 5-door Honda you are looking for.

cartagram

Thanks, Backy, for the Jazz reference. (I looked it up on the Honda Australia website...looks interesting.)

When I bought my Civic to replace my Windstar, I figured one to two months of car payment per year were paid for by the savings in gas.

The other "dream" vehicle might be the Civic Coupe, but designed as a liftback. Every time I see one that long expanse of back window glass makes me think that it can open as a hatchback-liftback. Wouldn't that be a sporty utility vehicle?

vadp

http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/08/pf/autos/CR_best_cars/index.htm?c- nn=yes

backy

I took a look at the ZX5 the other day and while it has some nice features for the price, a few things didn't impress me:

* In order to fold the rear seatbacks flat, you have to fold the entire rear seat cushion, unlike other hatches that let you fold the rear seatbacks flat w/o folding the rear seat cushion, or allow you to fold only part of the rear seat cushion. So with the Focus, you have the choice of either hauling long cargo or rear seat passengers, but not both.

* The interior fabrics (Comfort trim) were cheap, especially the "carpeting" in the cargo area, and the rear seat cushion was very soft and unsupportive. Perhaps the Premium models have better fabric and a denser cushion, but the dealer didn't have any of those to look at.

* The driver's seat does have a height adjuster, but it's a single control that raises/lowers the entire seat cushion vs. the dual controls on models like the Elantra and Spectra that allow for greater range of adjustments.

Right now I think the best value in a 5-door hatchback is the Elantra GT, which fully loaded with automatic, moonroof, ABS/traction, and all the standard features like leather and MP3 stereo would run about $14k and less for current Hyundai owners. The all-new Spectra looks like a nice package also, but will cost more because of lesser rebates right now.

chaotic_amber

A few months to go on my current lease (2002 Saturn L200 sedan) and now its time to buy a new car. I like the Saturns but the Ion is the only thing in my price range and it doesn't offer the possible storage space that I am looking for.

I'm limited on price, 17,000 is the absolute set it stone maximum, I'm hoping to get automatic, power windows/doors, ABS, side airbags, decent stereo a plus but not a requirement. Reliability and durability are key factors, Metro Detroit area is well known for 365 days of road work and potholes.

The short list right now is a Scion, xA or xB. I will make up my mind on that after a test drive and if the xB looks as funky in person as it does on screen. If anybody has any other decent possibilities I would love to hear them while I still have a few months to shop around and research.

muffin_man

I think the most likely competitors to the xA and xB are the Chevy Aveo and the Suzuki Aerio.
I'm sure you would be happy with either Scion, but I would test drive the other two. I'm not such a big fan of the powertrain of the Aerio, but you could probably save $3-4000 off the sticker of a Scion if you can find a discounted Aveo.

maxx4me

amber: a no brainer to me: get a Pontiac Vibe all wheel drive. The current rebates will take you down to your $$ level, and the best things are: you'll be driving a Corolla in Pontiac clothing, and have AWD for those Detroit winters. The AWD ride is excellent, and it is a fun car to drive, with plenty of versatility. I also know where you can get a gm in the driveway certificate to save you even more money. Let me know.

muffin_man

I forgot about that, good idea.

m4prius

The scion XA is a re-skinned Echo Hatchback marketed in Canada or called a Yaris overseas...I believe the Yaris is a #1 seller overseas. I currently drive a Echo 4 door sedan and have 40,000 maintenance free miles in just over 2 years...It's great transportation with great MPG to boot (37-40MPG Automatic). The Scions will have many extras found only in luxury cars...

chaotic_amber

I'm going to have to do some research on that. If the rebates would bring the price that far down that would be a good thing. I could also turn in my lease early if I get into another GM product. Where can I find info on those rebates?

I've liked the Vibe since I saw it but have heard some not-so-good things about the reliability and resale on Pontiac products. I'll be reading through the user reviews and I'm sure there is a Town Hall forum for them somewhere that I can review.

Sylvia

Use the Browse by Message Board pulldown menu on the left to find Smart Shopper (opt to view all discussions there...allows you to scan the list). You might also look in Finance which has a leasing discussions (great resrouce there - Lease Questions discussion).

midnightcowboy

muffin_man

The Vibe is a reskinned Toyota Matrix, reliability should be fine.

lordbass

The Scion xA is not an Echo, it's a Toyota ist, a Japanese home market car revised slightly for us with the Echo's 108hp 1.5. A nice, simple car, but with higher weight, shorter gearing and slightly less fuel economy than an Echo.

The Canadian Echo Hatchback is indeed a Toyota Yaris, but with the same 108hp 1.5. For the most part the Yaris is only on offer with less powerful motors overseas. It is a former European Car of the Year. Wish we had it in the US. An Echo Hatch CE in base spec would be ultra reliable, practical, economical, zippy and very cheap.

jontyrees

I can wholeheartedly recommend the Suzuki Aerio SX. I have a 2003, and I'd say it has an excellent powertrain - 2.0l 4-cyl 145hp, broad torque curve, available in front- or all-wheel drive. The 2004 model is now upgraded to a 155hp 2.4l engine, and would still be well within your budget. They come well equipped, (power windows, remote locks, 6 disc in-dash cd, etc, etc), have a great warranty (7/100, I believe), and the interior space is class leading, (63.7 cu ft with the seats down).

It's really a fun car to drive with the 5sp, although there is no 5sp option if you get the AWD. Is it perfect? No, there are a couple of shortcomings, could use more cubby space, the door panels have been known to vibrate on some examples, etc. Definitely worth a look though if you're not scared off by the styling. Since you're looking at Scions, though, that seems not to be the case. Check it out!

jsylvester

I'm looking at the ZX-5 with the 2.3 liter engine. There is a local dealer that is selling all leftover 2003 Focii at 40% off of list price, and he has numerous ZX-5's in stock. While the 2.3 engine was not available for 03 in Ohio, it is for 2004. With the restyle for 2005 coming out, I'm hoping similar discounts will be available at this time next year on the leftover 2004's.

The problem I am having is finding a ZX-5 with the 2.3 is difficult, especially in the Comfort trim level. They have plenty of the ZTS sedans, but I want the hatch.

dgs

Actually I can think of a few more shortcomings of the Suzuki Aerio. Here is my short list: Almost no storage space in the cabin, low-grade interior plastics, sloppy handling, no side airbags available, no moonroof option, no heated seat option, skinny 15" wheels, a small gas tank, and ugly as sin.

Yes, some of that list is taken from Edmunds verbatim, but after test driving the SX, I can whole-heartedly agree with their complaints as well as add some of my own. Under $20K the best hatchbacks on the market are the Ford Focus ZX5 and the Mazda 3. I would not consider anything else.

backy

Another car you should at least check out is the Elantra GT. It seems to meet your criteria and can be had for substantially under $17k loaded with automatic, moonroof, leather, ABS/traction control, and a fine Kenwood MP3 6-speaker stereo. Reliability is Above Average according to Consumer Reports, better than the Focus but not as good as the Matrix. The Mazda3s 5-door is a fine car, but you may have trouble getting out the door for $17k. The Focus ZX5 and Matrix can be had for under $17k. One benefit of the Matrix (and the Vibe) is that they did better than any other small hatchback in the government crash tests.

frenchcar

I traded in a Focus ZTS for a 2002 Aerio SX and have never been sorry. The 2002 Aerio had nicer upholstery than the 03 and 04 but a smaller engine (HP) and ours is white with dark tint (looks like a mini limo) and we get great comments on it and have had several offers to buy it. We did put on a different Yokohoma set of tires on it, a K&N air filter and run synthetics in it. The Aerio has far superior seats for long distance comfort, sits taller for better vision and is much easier to get in and out of and has 64 feet of load space. Doesnt need a larger gas tank as we get 5 more mpg in the city than we did with the Focus and 3 or 4 on the highway. We have driven it downhill on steep mountain roads at 10 mph over the speed limit and it sticks like glue and it is not sloppy handling at all. We have put 22000 miles on with no defects or problems and there have been no re-calls unlike the Focus we had. I like a Focus but love an Aerio. Looks are personal taste but there is much more to consider than just looks. Personally I dont like the Focus hatchback look with the weird rear end but their wagon is neat. Several Aerio owners have agreed with me that it takes 6 to 7000 miles to get them broken in fully and most car mags have test driven low mileage ones. Mine is far superior to what it was when first new. Just thought I would set the record straight but to each his own.

muffin_man

Those might be the best 5 doors, but the Civic Si is definitely the better car/hatchback than the ZX5. I haven't gotten a chance to drive a Mazda 3 yet. That said, with the amazingly low prices you can get a Focus for, it is an outstanding value.

I really like the Aerio, and I would like to test drive one with a newer engine.

vadp

It takes 5-10K for any car to get fully broken in.
The Focus of the past is a completely different animal and differs quite substantially from the Focus of today.
No recalls, great reliability, new Mazda designed engines - thus improved power and fuel mileage, different German built manual transmissions, redesigned more conservative interior, just to name a few.
Plus the Focus will outhandle anything in the price range, probably even Mazda 3, wich rides on the next gen Euro Focus II platform btw.

backy

The Civic Si is a nice car, but overpriced for what you get IMO. It does not meet the stated requirement of a maximum of $17k. As for a Focus outhandling the Mazda3, maybe in SVT trim, but not the standard Focus vs. Mazda3s 5-door. You might be able to get a SVT under $17k.

midnightcowboy

Does meet the price requirments when you look what they are actually selling for. At the end of last year 2003 Civi Sis were selling for $15,996. Currently Civic SIs are selling for right at $17K ( $16,995). A Civic SI comes fully loaded at that price. One of the problems is tha the Mazda 3 puts out the same horsepower as the Civic Si with more torque and actually a little better milage. While the civic SI is a Honda, it is not a hot seller. The Honda enthusiasts are waiting to see if the Type R Civic SI will actually be available this fall ( 195 hp, 6-speed , 0-60 Mph 6.5 seconds).

So bottom line, If you like Honda and you like the Civic SI, negotiate you can signficantly beat list.

Around here you can get a Mazda 3 base for about $400 over invoice with free service loaners, free tires for life and every other oil change free at the 3750 scheduled interval.

muffin_man

The Civic Si is NOT worth its $19,500 MSRP. That price is ridiculous. But they are definitely available from $16-17,000, and for that price, they are a great deal.

There is no news, or even credible rumors of a Civic Type-R coming in fall. The only thing known about the next Si, is that it will be a coupe, and not a hatchback. Too bad.

backy

$17k would be almost $1000 below invoice, $16k would be $2000 below invoice. So yes, if you can find a Honda dealer willing to sell a new Civic Si for $1000-2000 under invoice, that is a very good deal, if a 3-door hatchback meets your needs. OTOH, I've seen Focus ZX3 SVT's advertised in my town for $14.5k, so those could be an even better deal in a 3-door and would get you out the door with all taxes etc. for well under $17k.

nippononly

if you could get an SI for less than $500 under invoice, which is $17,500. Even though they are moving slow. Maybe six months from now if inventory is sitting around...

All those fabled deals of $15-16K for an SI are 18-month-old ancient history at this point...

Both the SI and the Mazda3 hatch will outhandle the Focus. Straight-line speedwise, they are all about the same.

Civic type R for U.S. consumption seems to be nothing more than a myth at this point. And wasn't someone on here saying fairly knowledgeably that SI is going to disappear completely for model year '05? Certainly the Focus SVT is. Catch these models on their way out, and the deals might be even better.