Here's a discussion from the Station Wagons message board that some of you may find interesting: Ford Fusion. It sort of fits into the 5 door hatch category, imo.
because I have a hard time telling where a hatchback ends and a station wagon begins. To me I guess it just the length of the section from the back wheel on, but I don't know. For example I consider the Pro 5 a hatchback, but if it was even slightly longer, I'd call it a wagon. The Ford Fusion looks like a tall hatchback (which it basically is.)
and I think is a good one to at least look at (depends on your taste and needs) is the Subaru Impreza TS wagon. It's an AWD hatch with a torquey 4 cylinder engine. Not going to win any fuel economy awards, but it's a good enough car to not overlook while shopping for 5-doors.
My wife and I are expecting our first baby and we are in the market for a "family friendly" car. With a budget under $16,500, the choices appear to be Elantra GT, Protege5, or Focus ZX5. I would add VW Golf to this list, but the closest VW dealer is 50 miles away!
When shopping in this price range, every vehicle inevitably has a number of drawbacks. I figured I would list our concerns regarding each vehicle and ask for advice that might either ease or confirm them.
Elantra GT: My wife thinks that the standard leather seats will be both too hot in summer and too cold in winter. She also worries that cracking will become a problem. Of course, low resale value is also a concern.
Focus ZX5: Is the cargo area large enough to swallow all the stuff required when traveling with a baby?
Protege5: It doesn't have those "worrisome" leather seats and it has more cargo room than the ZX5, but is it really worth paying the premium over the other two options? *And stretching our thin budget.
As far as the cargo area of the ZX5, I can tell you that there is has quite a bit of usable room. A friend of mine owns a Focus ZX3 (which has the same exact cargo room as the ZX5) and 4 of us when to go paintballing. Well we had a about a whole army's worth of gear loaded up in a two A3 bags (big military bags) and some smaller bags loaded in the hatch area with no problem.
Really all three of these cars will do what you need fine. The Protege and Focus are not exactly up to Lexus' standard of resale value either. They are better than Hyundai's currently, but just buy the car that feels best to you and suites your needs as best.
I don't know about the others so I can't comment, but I was in the same position and bought a P5. Plenty of room for the rear facing infant carrier, I'm 6-1 and don't even have to adjust my driving position for the baby seat. Hatch is plenty big enough for stroller, grocery bags and the like. We've had it 3 weeks now and really like it. Plus I don't feel like I'm driving a family mobile, it's a pretty sporty looking and driving car.
Thanks for the advice. My wife is also very concerned about being stuck in a family mobile. Before you bought your P5, did you test drive any of the other cars I listed? Did you look at anything else that may be suitable for us?
I didn't drive the ZX5, I just don't trust the reliability of the car so I stayed away. I did drive the Elantra GT. Alot of car for the price which made the decision fairly difficult. The main thing I had against the GT was that I could not sit in the rear seat without hitting my head on the roof. I guess that's because of the fastback styling, but it just bothered me. I was very impressed with the car though. In the end, I just liked the style of the P5 more and felt it was more fun to drive, the handling is just fantastic. A few things to think about though when considering the P5. With the handling is a tradeoff of some comfort. The ride is fine for me, but it can be a bit hard on the highway. Really is a personal preference kind of thing. Also, it comes with 50 series tires which most likely will be more expensive to replace then those on the GT.
I've have a 2000 Focus ZTS sedan with about 30K miles on it and it's been fine. So you might want to at least check out the ZX5. It's a good enough car to at least not overlook. Like I mentioned in an above post, you might want to check out the Subaru Impreza wagon (it's a hatch though) if you have a Subie dealer near by.
I've owned my Elantra GT for 3 months now and just love the leather. I can't imagine a better surface for kids because you can just wipe it off. The GT interior is a dark grey and the P5 is black. They will feel about the same to the touch in the sun. A friend of mine has an Integra with a black leather interior and it is not hot to the touch like black plastics. She's owned that car for almost 9 years and the leather looks just as good as new. I think it got leather cleaner/conditioner with each oil change.
Another plus for the GT is a generous back seat. Everyone comments on it right away (second only to the pretty blue exterior color).
There is a downside to the GT and kids - the lighting in the back seat is terrible so loading/unloading in the dark will be tricky without additional lights. I've seen posts from some owners who put additional lighting in the back and were very pleased.
With the GT, you get a LOT of car for the money. You could start a college fund with the savings over the P5!
Congratulations to you and your wife and happy car shopping!
If you are looking for a family hatch/wagon, you should also look at the Toyota Matrix. It offers the most rear leg room of the group I believe and has lots of storage options. Plus, it's a 2003 model.
I really appreciate all the feedback that I have gotten on my posting. In response to two members who suggeted the Impreza Wagon and the Toyota Matrix respectively:
The Impreza Wagon seems like a wonderful vehicle. Unfortunately, it busts my meager budget by at least $1,000 and it isn't that superior to the Elantra GT, ZX5, or P5.
The Toyota Matrix seems to have an attractive price at first glance. Like most Toyota products, however, when you add the cost of the bare minimum options (A/C, etc.) it quickly climbs out of my $16.5 K budget. Also, as a new model, dealers are not going out of their way to discount the price.
I would like to know if anyone out there looked at low priced SUV's before buying their hatchback. My wife really wanted an SUV before we studied our budget and discovered that anything like a Honda CR-V was completely out of the question. She has since wondered whether a Kia Sportage would be suitable (We can probably fit a 2WD model under the budget). Did anyone consider a Sportage in their buying decision?
I wouldn't touch a sportage....look at it's reliability....I think it is one of the worst in the industry! I also think they are about to replace it with a new model.
As for the Matrix....even the base Matrix at what $14,600 comes standard with AC. It also has a higher driving position...more SUV like.
For the most features...the Elantra GT would offer the most.
hey leomort i think if you haddn't yet bought a vehicle or plan to trade may i entres you in the Kia spectra GSX, and the Suzuki Aerio SX. Reply back if possible.
I don't know. They're kind of approching the market from two different directions. If you value fuel economy and handling, I'd go with the Elantra GT. If you really need the benifit of AWD and the weight and driveline loss penalty, then go for the Subie. Really I'd like Subaru to offer a FWD version of the Impreza 2.5TS. That would make me happy.
No haven't bought a car for myself. I got bumped by the wife who needs a car to learn to drive. We're thinking a used Prism or Protege. Probably get a car for her this spring. So the hubby gotta wait..LOL
Subaru tried to sell FWD cars in North America prior to 1995. They couldn't give them away. That was when Subaru sales were the lowest ever. Then they came out with the Outback and switched completely to AWD and it has become their trademark...sales are at an all time high. So you won't see a FWD vehicle from Subaru any time soon.
oh I know. I'm not questioning their marketing. They're just riding the SUV wave of everything needs AWD and needs SUV looks. Just saying that this side of the WRX, there is nothing that floats my boat from them because they lack FWD.
I'm in the market for a 5 door hatch and have test driven three - the Toyota Matrix, Pro 5 and Elantra GT. Whatever I buy it will be a 5 spd but I only had the chance to test drive automatics.
Toyota matrix - Styling is not to my taste. Had the best interior room of the three. I liked the hard plastic cargo area, didn't like the funky guages, strange position of the gear selector and trim work in general. Didn't have a great deal of power but the suspension felt about right.
Mazda Pro - I liked everything about this car except the ride. The ride was way too sporty for my taste. I was driving on our local 4 lane highway and feeling every little bump and undulation along the road. That would quickly become tiring. The sales rep said something about having upgraded the wheels on the car I drove, and this car did seem to be shod with very low profile tires, so maybe the ride wasn't typical of all Pro 5s. Leather is not available, but the word is that a leather clad version is on it's way for 2003 (with a V6?). If leather was available in this car and I could make the ride less harsh, then it would be hard to pick the Elantra over this car. Sidenote: All three Pro 5s on the lot were stuck around the back, in a corner, and all three had dead batteries and plenty of dust on the paintwork.
Elantra GT - If I could find one of these with a stick shift within 200 miles of Atlanta I would have bought one by now. I have no problem with it's looks, maybe prefering it slightly over the Pro 5. The ride was a little more firm than in the Matrix and acceleration seemed to be on a par with the Pro 5. Remember I was driving automatics and I wasn't flooring the pedal :-) . My wife and I like the standard leather seats, and the long list of standard features. Our only worry would be the reliability but that's alleviated by the 10/100,000 drivetrain warranty.
and they've both have been fine. I have no experience with the Kia Spectra however. If the Spectra is a Kia with a lot of Hyundai parts, it will probably be fine. If it's a sole Kia creation, I'd be a little more hesitant.
The newspaper I worked for had a bunch of focuses. Recall after recall, and alot of trips out with the tow truck. The most dependable car they used was the Festiva (kia built), but I don't know much about the newer kia's. I bought a Hyundai Elantra GT, and have been loving it!
when I was forced to buy. Came down to the Focus 3 door hatch and the Elantra 4 door sedan. Thought the Focus was a better handling tho. slower car, but chose the Elantra on the basis of far more pleasant owners comments. So far I've been very pleased although I wish I'd had time to get the GT.
Given the choice between a Spectra and Focus 5-door hatch I'd probably take the Focus if I could afford it. Wasn't very impressed with the Spectra hatch when I drove it (this was a '01). Definitely WAY behind the Elantra GT. By the time they merge the platforms in 06 the Spectra is going to be one old car.
I too had a Festiva and remember it with fondness. IMHO the Rio, although a second generation advance on the Festiva platform, isn't really as pleasant as the original. For some odd reason lots of Elantra owners seem to have had Festivas. I don't know if I've heard of as many of them sticking with Kia.
A lot of former festiva owners have bought Elantras. I hope that means we know how to pick dependable cars! (probably means we're cheap, though Luckily last year, when I thought of getting a new car, I read Edmunds article on the upcoming Elantra GT. I didn't 'need' a new car so I waited. After coming down to the Mazda P5 vs GT I went with the GT. To me it looked nicer, and performed better (not to mention cost less, has more!).
I just got a Golf -- its a great car. Drives great, looks great and you can get a decent price on a gl model. I'd be vary wary of the Focus -- its has been a reliability nightmare.
Glad you like the Golf. If they still made the 1.8t Golf, I very well may have been driving around in one today.
The Focus did have quite a few recalls (ie way to many) for the 2000 model year. But I don't think that would qualify as a reliability nightmare. But if you repeat something enough times, people will believe its true. Oh well.
Here's a direct link to Edmunds' First Drive: Suzuki Aerio, by John DiPietro. Let us know what you think. Also, for more discussion on the Suzuki Aerio SX, join us in this ongoing discussion. Thanks for your participation.
Hi Folks- Edmunds has launched a powerful new tool to help people make a wise decision when buying a car. This tool, called "True Cost to Own (TCO) is available from the Home Page or the Vehicle Detail Page, and what it does is compare the actual ownerships costs for various models of car over the course of 5 years.
Here's an explanation on how it works: True Cost to Own (TCO), by Philip Reed. Hope this is helpful. Let us know what you think. Happy motoring!
I've owned a Protege 5 for just shy of a full year. I haven't had one problem and have no regrets on purchasing it. Here are my year long observations:
Pros: Sporty Ride and Handling Great Looking Hatchback Storage capacity (fit a wheel barrel, various sizes of wood, a large painting and even a boxed snowblower (couldnt close the hatch though)) Comfy seats Back windows roll almost all the way down When I purchased it included free lifetime oil-changes I got S-Plan pricing Japan made engine Solid feeling construction
Cons: Roof rack whistles (removing it helps) Gas mileage could be better for this class of car Center arm rest is back too far to be comfortably used Could use 20+ more hp but due to gearing it still has plenty of pep Black Cloth Seats and hatch area collect and show dog hair (but are pretty easy to clean)
All in all its a great car and I highly recommend it.
The June issue of C/D has a comparo of 5-door something-or-others; they're kind of vague about how they picked the field. First they say they wanted to compare the new "tall" vehicles, but then they included the Focus ZX5 and Pro5 (which took first place), which are the same height as the respective sedan models. Anyway, I found it interesting that they included the PT Cruiser in the field, and it finished second! No one has mentioned the PT Cruiser yet in this forum, but it is indeed a roomy 5-door hatchback, and prices are coming down now that the novelty has worn off (I've seen them advertised below $15k in my town). Another interesting thing about the comparo is that they ignored the Elantra GT. I could see that if they stuck to the "tall" cars, but why not include it along with the Focus and Protege, which are very similar in concept to the GT?
I own a first year Elantra GT Cobalt Blue... tested and almost bought following: Pro5, Spectra GSX... Sis works for local Ford dealership, tested Focus, Matrix, Aerio SX
My order of preference:
GT Pro 5 Matrix Aerio SX Sepctra GSX Focus (any) Reasoning: GT is prob the fastest and best handling (minor concession to Pro5 with its 16's but now I have 17's and I could take one any day with my extra power advantage). Matrix 180hp is useless in city driving and highway unless I want to rev the crap outta the engine... 130lb/ft at high rev and 180 comes at very high up in the revs. Gt is bigger than Pro5. Matrix looks cheesied up with top line ground effects, plane jane strippo without them. Aerio SX actually surprised me a whole lot... very good looks and execution....but a bit too much minvan for me with the seating position and gauges (digital). Spectra GSX, almost purchased by father but after my repeated nagging about interior and feature content in comparison to my GT we reneged on the agreeement. Focus... what can I say... ugly outside, hideous inside, and way too much more than my GT.. not to mention its a FORD...
considering price advantage and comparing apples to apples...GT handles better than focus 4 door,5 door and wagon, prob not ZX3 with handling opt nor SVT.... which should be obvious although with a tweak or two GT could take a ZX3
Did you drive the Elantra GT with sport suspension, or the GT with "comfort suspension" (i.e., same suspension as in the GLS)?
I agree that the Pro5 is a better handler than the GT, but with a tradeoff in a much firmer ride (which the car mags all acknowledge) that I found too jolting for my taste. The GT, and the Focus, are a better blend IMO of handling and ride comfort.
Was that the GT with the comfort suspension or the sport suspension? (Early GTs had the same suspension as the GLS, noted on the window sticker as "comfort suspension").
The Focus is a good car, especially in ride and handling. What turned me off from it when I was buying was 1) abysmal initial quality, e.g. parts falling off inside and outside, 2) steady stream of recalls, and 3) uncomfortable driving position. There was also the large price difference between the Elantra and a comparably-equipped Focus. I had a bad experience with another brand-new Ford model, a '95 Mystique, with quality and recalls, so I decided to not go there again.
That is the first time I have heard of the Elantra's ride compared to a Buick! If one is looking for a more sporty ride, the Pro5 has the Elantra GT beat.
Maybe I'm getting old but it was way too bouncy. The Elantra had a more balanced ride. As for everything else? I do not see where the Pro5 is obviously better than the Elantra. I voted with my wallet and in my opinion the Elantra is the better overall car regardless of price. That is not to say the Pro 5 was/is a poor car. Far from it.
Hell, CD put the Focus on its top 10 list and then kept it there for a second year despite recalls and dreadful quality control and reliblity problems. What could be kinder than that?
Comments
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
When shopping in this price range, every vehicle inevitably has a number of drawbacks. I figured I would list our concerns regarding each vehicle and ask for advice that might either ease or confirm them.
Elantra GT: My wife thinks that the standard leather seats will be both too hot in summer and too cold in winter. She also worries that cracking will become a problem. Of course, low resale value is also a concern.
Focus ZX5: Is the cargo area large enough to swallow all the stuff required when traveling with a baby?
Protege5: It doesn't have those "worrisome" leather seats and it has more cargo room than the ZX5, but is it really worth paying the premium over the other two options? *And stretching our thin budget.
Really all three of these cars will do what you need fine. The Protege and Focus are not exactly up to Lexus' standard of resale value either. They are better than Hyundai's currently, but just buy the car that feels best to you and suites your needs as best.
I did drive the Elantra GT. Alot of car for the price which made the decision fairly difficult.
The main thing I had against the GT was that I could not sit in the rear seat without hitting my head on the roof. I guess that's because of the fastback styling, but it just bothered me. I was very impressed with the car though.
In the end, I just liked the style of the P5 more and felt it was more fun to drive, the handling is just fantastic.
A few things to think about though when considering the P5. With the handling is a tradeoff of some comfort. The ride is fine for me, but it can be a bit hard on the highway. Really is a personal preference kind of thing. Also, it comes with 50 series tires which most likely will be more expensive to replace then those on the GT.
I've owned my Elantra GT for 3 months now and just love the leather. I can't imagine a better surface for kids because you can just wipe it off. The GT interior is a dark grey and the P5 is black. They will feel about the same to the touch in the sun. A friend of mine has an Integra with a black leather interior and it is not hot to the touch like black plastics. She's owned that car for almost 9 years and the leather looks just as good as new. I think it got leather cleaner/conditioner with each oil change.
Another plus for the GT is a generous back seat. Everyone comments on it right away (second only to the pretty blue exterior color).
There is a downside to the GT and kids - the lighting in the back seat is terrible so loading/unloading in the dark will be tricky without additional lights. I've seen posts from some owners who put additional lighting in the back and were very pleased.
With the GT, you get a LOT of car for the money. You could start a college fund with the savings over the P5!
Congratulations to you and your wife and happy car shopping!
Jacky
The Impreza Wagon seems like a wonderful vehicle. Unfortunately, it busts my meager budget by at least $1,000 and it isn't that superior to the Elantra GT, ZX5, or P5.
The Toyota Matrix seems to have an attractive price at first glance. Like most Toyota products, however, when you add the cost of the bare minimum options (A/C, etc.) it quickly climbs out of my $16.5 K budget. Also, as a new model, dealers are not going out of their way to discount the price.
I would like to know if anyone out there looked at low priced SUV's before buying their hatchback. My wife really wanted an SUV before we studied our budget and discovered that anything like a Honda CR-V was completely out of the question. She has since wondered whether a Kia Sportage would be suitable (We can probably fit a 2WD model under the budget). Did anyone consider a Sportage in their buying decision?
As for the Matrix....even the base Matrix at what $14,600 comes standard with AC. It also has a higher driving position...more SUV like.
For the most features...the Elantra GT would offer the most.
No haven't bought a car for myself. I got bumped by the wife who needs a car to learn to drive. We're thinking a used Prism or Protege. Probably get a car for her this spring. So the hubby gotta wait..LOL
Leo
They're available through the 1996 model yesr.
Toyota matrix - Styling is not to my taste. Had the best interior room of the three. I liked the hard plastic cargo area, didn't like the funky guages, strange position of the gear selector and trim work in general. Didn't have a great deal of power but the suspension felt about right.
Mazda Pro - I liked everything about this car except the ride. The ride was way too sporty for my taste. I was driving on our local 4 lane highway and feeling every little bump and undulation along the road. That would quickly become tiring. The sales rep said something about having upgraded the wheels on the car I drove, and this car did seem to be shod with very low profile tires, so maybe the ride wasn't typical of all Pro 5s. Leather is not available, but the word is that a leather clad version is on it's way for 2003 (with a V6?). If leather was available in this car and I could make the ride less harsh, then it would be hard to pick the Elantra over this car.
Sidenote: All three Pro 5s on the lot were stuck around the back, in a corner, and all three had dead batteries and plenty of dust on the paintwork.
Elantra GT - If I could find one of these with a stick shift within 200 miles of Atlanta I would have bought one by now. I have no problem with it's looks, maybe prefering it slightly over the Pro 5. The ride was a little more firm than in the Matrix and acceleration seemed to be on a par with the Pro 5. Remember I was driving automatics and I wasn't flooring the pedal :-) . My wife and I like the standard leather seats, and the long list of standard features. Our only worry would be the reliability but that's alleviated by the 10/100,000 drivetrain warranty.
2002 Ford Focus ZX5
2002 Kia Spectra GSX
(or is this one of those "lesser of 2 evils" deals...)
Erik
Given the choice between a Spectra and Focus 5-door hatch I'd probably take the Focus if I could afford it. Wasn't very impressed with the Spectra hatch when I drove it (this was a '01). Definitely WAY behind the Elantra GT. By the time they merge the platforms in 06 the Spectra is going to be one old car.
I too had a Festiva and remember it with fondness. IMHO the Rio, although a second generation advance on the Festiva platform, isn't really as pleasant as the original. For some odd reason lots of Elantra owners seem to have had Festivas. I don't know if I've heard of as many of them sticking with Kia.
Luckily last year, when I thought of getting a new car, I read Edmunds article on the upcoming Elantra GT. I didn't 'need' a new car so I waited. After coming down to the Mazda P5 vs GT I went with the GT. To me it looked nicer, and performed better (not to mention cost less, has more!).
The Focus did have quite a few recalls (ie way to many) for the 2000 model year. But I don't think that would qualify as a reliability nightmare. But if you repeat something enough times, people will believe its true. Oh well.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Here's an explanation on how it works: True Cost to Own (TCO), by Philip Reed. Hope this is helpful. Let us know what you think. Happy motoring!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Pros:
Sporty Ride and Handling
Great Looking Hatchback
Storage capacity (fit a wheel barrel, various sizes of wood, a large painting and even a boxed snowblower (couldnt close the hatch though))
Comfy seats
Back windows roll almost all the way down
When I purchased it included free lifetime oil-changes
I got S-Plan pricing
Japan made engine
Solid feeling construction
Cons:
Roof rack whistles (removing it helps)
Gas mileage could be better for this class of car
Center arm rest is back too far to be comfortably used
Could use 20+ more hp but due to gearing it still has plenty of pep
Black Cloth Seats and hatch area collect and show dog hair (but are pretty easy to clean)
All in all its a great car and I highly recommend it.
http://www.thehollywoodextra.com
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
My order of preference:
GT
Pro 5
Matrix
Aerio SX
Sepctra GSX
Focus (any)
Reasoning: GT is prob the fastest and best handling (minor concession to Pro5 with its 16's but now I have 17's and I could take one any day with my extra power advantage). Matrix 180hp is useless in city driving and highway unless I want to rev the crap outta the engine... 130lb/ft at high rev and 180 comes at very high up in the revs. Gt is bigger than Pro5. Matrix looks cheesied up with top line ground effects, plane jane strippo without them. Aerio SX actually surprised me a whole lot... very good looks and execution....but a bit too much minvan for me with the seating position and gauges (digital).
Spectra GSX, almost purchased by father but after my repeated nagging about interior and feature content in comparison to my GT we reneged on the agreeement.
Focus... what can I say... ugly outside, hideous inside, and way too much more than my GT.. not to mention its a FORD...
Then again, this is a widely-held opinion...read any car magazine and they'll agree.
And the 4-door and wagon are not part of the discussion, the ZX5 is.
I agree that the Pro5 is a better handler than the GT, but with a tradeoff in a much firmer ride (which the car mags all acknowledge) that I found too jolting for my taste. The GT, and the Focus, are a better blend IMO of handling and ride comfort.
The Focus is a good car, especially in ride and handling. What turned me off from it when I was buying was 1) abysmal initial quality, e.g. parts falling off inside and outside, 2) steady stream of recalls, and 3) uncomfortable driving position. There was also the large price difference between the Elantra and a comparably-equipped Focus. I had a bad experience with another brand-new Ford model, a '95 Mystique, with quality and recalls, so I decided to not go there again.
Maybe I'm getting old but it was way too bouncy. The Elantra had a more balanced ride. As for everything else? I do not see where the Pro5 is obviously better than the Elantra. I voted with my wallet and in my opinion the Elantra is the better overall car regardless of price. That is not to say the Pro 5 was/is a poor car. Far from it.
Chrysler PT Cruiser
Ford Focus ZX5
Pontiac Vibe
Mazda Protegé5
Suzuki Aerio SX
Toyota Matrix XRS
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2002/june/200206_comparo_boxes.xml
Very interesting where they rated the Vibe/Matrix?
-Larry
jasking:
Here here!
oh and of course more Focus info:
http://www.auto.com/industry/defect7_20020607.htm