1994 3.8L Ford Mustang AirBag Light Codes

Comments

• alcan Member Posts: 2,550

  February 2001

  Due to liability concerns re personal injury from not following manufacturers' specified service procedures, most responsible web sites will not release SRS info. Suggest you locate a body shop or other facility with SRS trained staff and not attempt any servicing yourself. A broken neck can ruin your afternoon.

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• fubbar Member Posts: 3

  February 2001

  I'm not planning on repairing the thing. But I do want to understand the specific problem before going to a garage. It's called investigating.

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• Mr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

  February 2001

  FUBBAR--I seriously doubt anyone will give you this info for obvious reasons...if I had it, I wouldn't...nothing personal, you understand! (but I don't have the codes, so...mute point).
  
  If you think this is hysteria, try and get some brake lines made up for your older car...I couldn't find anyone who would flare the fittings on the new steel lines for me...I had to buy all the tools and do it myself, at some expense and trouble.
  
  We live in an age of lawyers.

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• 0patience Member Posts: 1,712

  February 2001

  Because of the inherant dangers involved, very few mechanics, let alone websites will even consider offering any information on the SRS system. If someone were to post any info on the airbag system and someone decided to try and repair or mess with it and made a mistake and discharged the airbag in his/her face and then someone would be looking for someone to sue.
  
  Still wonder why there is such resistance in discussing the SRS system?
  
  Let me help you understand the SRS system.
  The airbag is considered an explosive, it takes less than .5 volt to ignite the airbag. SO let's say you were in ther mucking around and it was a very dry day and full of static elctricity and you put your hand on some wire or terminal and SNAP!,static jumps out and BOOM!!!!
  Out comes the airbag, travelling 200 mph and slams into your face. Now, if you are still alive, because of the position you were probably sitting, it has most likely broken your shoulder, maybe even your neck,if it hasn't slammed you into the door post and busted your skull open. If your reall lucky, the airbag has put chemical burns all over your arms and face and ground the chemical in with the material burns from the bag itself.
  
  I know this is long and you think that this isn't the way it works, but it is and it does.
  
  The system is designed to work when a body (your's) is moving at a certain velocity toward the airbag when it deploys. When your body is sitting still, the airbag can have very nasty consequences.

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• fubbar Member Posts: 3

  February 2001

  I am quite aware of the dangers surrounding the airbag system. What I don't seem to understand is why people would not want to understand a problem BEFORE bringing a car into a garage. That way, when they come to you and explain the problem you can speak somewhat intelligently to them. Otherwise you'd be at someones total mercy. It's stupid to think that providing someone an explanation to a flashing light is dangereous. Someone could just as likely drop a car on themselves if its not jacked up correctly.
  
  And there is a difference between having a part built for an older car which WOULD be dangerous for the garage if not done right and having the explaination for a trouble code. If you guys actually believe that you could be held liable for providing information publicly available your nuts. Anyone is able to go and purchase the manuals for this system. I was simply trying to avoid purchasing a book, or visiting the library to get a single line from it. I wasn't asking for the directions on repairing the system or for someone to send me the parts. Just the explaination of a code which I am fully intitled to have.
  
  But obviously if you guys do not want to give me the information I am quite able to track it down elsewhere. Just arguing the point of freedom of information for fun. BTW... When I get the info I'll be sure to post it here for others. If someone wants to sue me, please send me an email. I'd be happy to provide you my address.
  
  Oh yeah, a code 556 on the OBD system means the fuel pump is acting up. Does that make me liable if someone blows themself up? I thought not.
  
  Fubar - fubar@isovcd.com

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• Mr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

  February 2001

  Fubar, let me tell you a true story. I was sitting at a stop light in my car at night. A car with no lights, backing up a one way street the wrong way, T-boned my car (a nice older Jaguar) at about 15-20 miles per hour. My car suffered around $3,000 damage, as they hit right at the door pillar and bent the frame.
  
  I was sued by the driver for $150,000 in damages.
  
  Now, of course, they didn't win. But I had to hire an attorney, and go to 2 hearings....and never got paid for my damages.
  
  So, if you think WE are nuts for thinking that we could get sued, let's just say it is unlikely, but I for one am not going to take the chance....if the codes are in a book that is sold over the counter to the public, then I'm wrong.
  
  I was also sued 3 years after I sold someone a used car...the engine blew up on them (Porsche) and the claim was that the car had been submerged in water and that I failed to disclose this (I was sued for fraud. It, too, was laughed out of court but again I had to seek legal counsel.
  
  It's a weird world out there Fubbar......

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• 0patience Member Posts: 1,712

  February 2001

  You know, I've seen this same post at a bunch of different automotive forums and those guys have gotten the same reply. Hmmmm,I wonder.......??
  
  Fubbar,You stated "Someone could just as likely drop a car on themselves if its not jacked up correctly."
  That is not the same. An airbag is designated as an EXPLOSIVE.Go ask an explosives expert for information and if he is reputable, he will tell you sorry.
  
  As for your comment "If you guys actually believe that you could be held liable for providing information publicly available your nuts."
  Evidently it isn't that publicly available or you wouldn't be asking.
  As was said before, most reputable,self respecting professional mechanics will tell you sorry, but not here.
  As for your comment about the manauls. The manuals that do contain detailed info into the airbags, cost around $100+. So go ahead, buy the manual.
  
  Morton Thiokol,rocket fuel manufacturer(like space shuttle and Saturn rocket) is one manufacturer of airbags.
  
  Soooooo,maybe they will give you some information.
  
  Another thing you stated,
  "I wasn't asking for the directions on repairing the system or for someone to send me the parts. Just the explaination of a code which I am fully intitled to have."
  How do you figure you are entitled to that information? It is actually copyrighted material and owned by the manufacturers and they do not have to give that information out to anyone, if they don't want to.
  Unless you are a mechanic or shop that has paid thousands of dollars for the use of that information, you are NOT entitled to any of that information. You have a misconception that the information is under some kind of freedom of information act. It is not, it is proprietary information and is subject to the terms and conditions of the manufacturer.
  Also, realize that half the time, the definition of the code will start a person on their quest for the problem. Bad move with airbags.
  
  Lastly, and this is the reason that people are so tight lipped about the SRS stuff.
  You stated,
  "a code 556 on the OBD system means the fuel pump is acting up."
  A Ford OBD trouble code 556 is
  Fuel pump relay primary circuit fault - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
  But for other manufacturers, it has a different meaning, so you weren't entirely accurate. And THAT is why there is so much resistance to givng information that could cause someone harm.
  
  Enuff said.

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• Mr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

  February 2001

  I do appreciate the man's premise that it's not a bad idea to know something about a problem before going to a mechanic, but I'm not sure that this particular problem is the type one needs to be thoroughly self-educated about. With brakes or engine work, your knowledge might afford you the chance to create alternative decisions for yourself, but with a defective airbag, given all the legal and safety implications, I don't think you have all that many choices to begin with. You arent' going to fix it yourself by acquiring the knoweldge (very risky) and you probably aren't going to let some stranger hot wire your airbag to your defroster switch because he works cheap.
  
  So I'd say in my opinion that your search for knowledge is commendable, but not in this particular case.

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• alcan Member Posts: 2,550

  February 2001

  I work in a gov't funded facility which receives a regular flow of new donated vehicles (transit damaged over $1,000, flood damaged, pilot production line runs, etc). Two stipulations the donating manufacturers have are: 1 - the VIN plate is removed so the vehicle can't be returned to service and 2 - the air bags are removed or deactivated. We usually remove the steering wheel, place it bag side down in the parking lot, hook up a firing harness, and fire the air bag. Our apprentices get a kick out of that. The deployment will typically blow the steering wheel higher than the lights on the parking lot poles. Everyone who sees that gains a healthy respect for the power of air bags.

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• Mr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

  February 2001

  Do not try this in your living room, kids!

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• bblaha Member Posts: 329

  February 2001

  Is it permissible to retrofit the older style airbags with the 2nd generation ones, and if so have you ever heard of anyone doing this? I'm sure it gets into a grey area since a retrofited vehicle won't have been crash tested, but for a vehicle that is otherwise identical (say a 97 with the old style and a 99 with the 2nd gen, with no redesign in between), it surely is doable.
  
  If that can be done, I'd consider doing so rather than out and out permanently removing mine.

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• 0patience Member Posts: 1,712

  February 2001

  According to what they have, it is illegal to disable, tamper with or alter any SRS sytem.
  Now, that being said, the folks to contact on that subject would be NHTSA,they are the ones who really make the rulings and would be able to say yes or no. They are also the folks who would make the ruling for smaller folks or disabled folks to get permissions to disable the airbag.
  Unfortunately, we live in a world today, where our infamous govt has deemed us incompetant to make decisions for ourselves.

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• bblaha Member Posts: 329

  February 2001

  Thanks for that response.
  
  Let me followup with another question(s). Am I required to have SRS service performed by a dealer or other auto shop? If I'm in an accident, in which an airbag deploys (and assuming the airbag doesn't kill or maim me), and decide to make all the repairs myself (including to the SRS), can the NHTSA prevent me from doing so?
  
  I'm reluctant to contact the NHTSA directly (or at least initially) for an answer to my first question because I'm fairly confident I know what that answer would be. They HATE the depowered airbags and can't wait for auto manufacturers to figure out all the electronic gadgetry (dual inflation rates etc) so they can return to the original unbelted crash test (meaning a return to the full powered bags).
  
  The IIHS, on the other hand, might offer some friendly suggestions. They HATE the full powered airbag (as compared to the 2nd gen one). They might have an opinion on whether getting NHTSA approval is necessary...
  
  Thanks.

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• 0patience Member Posts: 1,712

  February 2001

  Although, your insurance company may require that a certified airbag technician do the work.
  DOT puts the same restrictions as the EPA on the catalytic converter,there is a law saying it must remain intact and that it must be there, doesn't state who has to do the work, but as I said, in the case of the airbags, the insurance company can and have cancelled insurance policies because someone opted to have someone other than a certified shop do the repair.
  
  Got to checking on your first question, the retro fit is in a gray area and while it might not be enforced while you are runnning around, should you get into an accident and the investigation of the accident brought up the fact that the air bag had been retro'd, they would more than likely prosecute. Also, understand that if you opted to do the repair yourself, if the airbag failed and someone got hurt, the liability is on your shoulders.
  
  Air bags can and have been great lifesavers, I have a sister in law alive because of one, but I am also very aware of the dangers involved in them, so I have a great respect for them.We have strict guidelines where I work on handling airbags, the disposal of them and shipping them. They are first and foremost an explosive. Disposal of them is handled as a hazardous waste and if I pull one or have one replaced, I have to account for the discharged unit. As I said, they do save lives, whether some like it or not, in the right situations. A good percentage of non impact discharges of the airbags are from add ons to the vehicle or modifications to the vehicle that alter the system.
  One of the most common a few years back was the installation of plows on the front of pickups with airbags.(should have been obvious to some).
  Sorry this is long.
  I'll see if I can get some more detailed info on the specifics of the requirements.

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• bblaha Member Posts: 329

  February 2001

  Thanks for your responses.
  
  I also got one from the IIHS and thought you might like to see it.
  
  I emailed then wondering if they thought pursuing a 2nd generation airbag retrofit would be a worthwhile endeaver. This is their response:
  
  The answer to your inquiry varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, and we
  don't have specific information from each automaker. Some manufacturers have
  decided that, when vehicles with "1st generation" airbags require repairs
  involving airbag replacement, the airbags will be replaced with "2nd
  generation" bags. In these cases, you might be able to purchase a voluntary
  airbag "upgrade." You'd have to check with the manufacturer of your vehicle
  about replacement policy.
  
  WEBMASTER
  Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
  Highway Loss Data Institute
  http://www.highwaysafety.org
  
  Although this is just a preliminary request, it seems possible that the insurance industry would not object to a retrofit.

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