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As an update, the dealer still has not received any 2012 E350 Sedans from the port, nor have any other dealers in southeastern Florida. My dealer called me last night and told me that the transport company said the cars will be in this weekend. From past experience this week, I would doubt it, but as soon as I get it, and try it out, I'll share my experiences with the new engine and new equipment.
2021 Genesis G90
Was looking at the BMW 535 and Mercedes E-350. Based on reviews in this forum I am veering towards a Mercedes mainly due to stated problems on the BMW.
Now on the Mercedes:
1. Like the Sports Package but am concerned about the possible issues with the tires etc. and so decided on the Luxury Package. What do you think?
2. I am being offered 4K off MSRP and 3 year servicing free on the 2011. Can i Hope for any better?
3. On the 2011 i am not getting the color of my choice. If i do wait for a 2012 can i hope for a similar discount if I go back in 2 months? If so what is the discount on MSRP that i can hope for.
I am neither USAA nor any special discount category.
Eagerly awaiting responses
In regards to your Q2, I suspect that even without Conquest or USAA rebates, you should be able to get a 2011 model for >$4K off of MSRP.
That said, if you are partial to particular color and option set, I would wait for a 2012 as it will feature improved engine and mileage. And, as Kevinc5 notes, MB may offer compelling rebates during the holidays.
My two rupees...
I think we all expect (and hope) to be able to get ~$10k off a 2012 next summer but I think even $6-7k off this winter will probably be good enough for me. For some the updates on the 2012 maybe minor but to me its worth waiting for and getting slightly more powerful and very slightly more economical engine, along with the updated interior (mostly steering wheel) and exterior (straight line DRL LEDs come to mind).
*The pick-up and acceleration are unbelievably superior to the 2011. Difference is 278 hp vs. 302 hp. Quite an improvement!!!
*The engine sounds "throatier", if you know what I mean. Sounds more like a V8 than a V6.
*The ride and handling seem a bit more responsive and "tighter" than my 2011. This could be due to the mere fact that they are different cars, since the suspension and wheels/tires are the same as last years.
*They increased the number of speakers in the car from 12 to 14 - with the Premium 1 or 2 packages - Harmon Karden. Surround sound seems more realistic than last year's model. I believe this is due mainly to the addition of the 2 speakers.
*Since I got the tire/wheel package with AMG wheels, the steering wheel is a sport steering wheel. Much nicer than last year's steering wheel - addition of more aluminum trim on the wheel - much sportier looking and feeling, as well.
*The car is equipped with a Premium 2 package. My 2011 had Premium 1. Big difference driving at night with the bi-xenon lights and cornering lights. Adaptive headlights also light up the round as you corner. Very distinct improvement in visibility over the 2011.
*Also have the contour seats - also a great improvement when adjusted correclty - they seem to hold me and grab me for support on both sides - less movement in the seat during turns.
*The car also came equipped with ventilated seats. Down here in Florida, they seem to be a necessity with the heat and humidity. They have three fan speeds for each front seat and really do cool the "derriere". Had to also get leather seats with these two options, and quite frankly, I do not notice the difference in the texture or feel of the seats - but do notice the aroma of the leather in the car over the MBtex seats on my 2011.
All in all, the greatest improvement is in the transmission (smoother gear shifts and more responsive with the changes they made) and the engine is gutsier and significantly more responsive. I LOVE MY NEW CAR and I know anyone who gets one will feel the same as I.
2021 Genesis G90
The review above does not surprise me...the e needed a bit more power. I'm actually interested in trying a 2012 C350 which should be a terrific handling, sporty car.
I took it out on the highway last night, and my fuel economy, according to the onboard computer, was 32 miles per gallon in cruise control for 25 miles. That's a huge improvement over my 2011, where I was lucky to get 26 mpg in cruise at 65 mph.
I mentioned in my review last night, as you read, that the engine sounds more "throaty". Sounds more like a V8 than a V6 when accelerating. Also, the acceleration is phenominal in comparison to the 2011. This is a car I am going to "KEEP". They have refined the E350 sedan into a sound, superior vehicle with the addition of the new transmission and engine. Also, the sound system is unbelievable with the addition of the two new speakers. Where they put the speakers is a question, but wherever they put them, the sound has improved significantly. It's like being in the studio where they recorded the music. The surround sound is outstanding.
I was lucky I had a previous loan with Mercedes Financial because I got the $1500 incentive discount as well as the 1.65% financing for 66 months (the reason I took out he long term loan is because of the outstanding rate - why not take advantage of it - they reduced the 1.9 rate to 1.65 because I used direct withdrawal from my checking account each month). The USAA incentive was a net of $1500 under actual dealer invoice (The incentive is for $500 over invoice less $2000, or a net of $1500 under invoice).
Another noticeable difference was in the steering. The steering is very "easy" in turning a low speeds, and stiffens up nicely as you increase speed.
I'll post more experiences with the new car after I've had a chance to put more miles on it.
2021 Genesis G90
As for tinting in general, my 2011 did not have an aftermarket tint on it and I had the car right through the hottest part of the year (June through September), and quite frankly, I really didn't miss the tint. Let me explain why:
First of all, I purchased a sun visor from my dealer for the front windshield (cost me about $65.00). Secondly, the car comes with a rear electric sunshade for the rear window. So, during the heat of the day, when my car is parked, I don't get much direct sun into the car because during the summer, the sun is directly overhead and does not come throug the side windows. I found that the car was no hotter inside than when I had the tinted windows on other cars.
With age (I just turned 67 and am retired) my eyes are not as sharp as they used to be. Night driving is more difficult with the tinted windows, especially in the rear, so I don't get tint.
Hope I answered your questions.
2021 Genesis G90
Thanks for your input.
I am fairly new to the luxury car world ( I have never owned one) and have been looking to lease a 2012 E class sedan 4matic ( in the midwest).
I note you are happy with the 2012 E350 sedan and consider it much better than the 2011 counterpart, which I have test driven.
My understanding of the luxury car since childhood is that it should be smooth and refined in ride and I note you have bought the sport model.
How much difference is there in the ride and comfort for both driver and passengers between a sport and luxury model.
I have only test driven a sport version so far due to it being more readily available on the lot and the ride for me was fine. The dealer says the ratio between sport to luxury is like 9:1.
When I spoke to the dealer who is helping me out, he searched for only luxury models and we could not locate any that matches the colors and options I wanted so I may be forced to order one, which would take many weeks. But if I expanded my search for a sport version I may get one with the options I want, maybe ?.
Also I will probably not qualify for any of the discounts quoted in this forum.
The luxury version I had configured for possible order has an MSRP of $ 61, 875 or so. In negotiating with the dealer how much discounts can I possibly get ?
Any suggestions will be helpful.
Thanks
Secondly, the sport models have wider wheels/tires, and the tire/wheel sizes are different on the sport (fronts are different than the rears which means you cannot rotate tires on the sport models). On the luxury, the wheels are 17" front and back and tires are the same front to back while on the sport, they are 18".
Thirdly, the ride on the luxury is much softer and luxurious. The ride on the sport model is firmer and the car handles much better than the luxury. I would not purchase a luxury because I like a firmer, more responsive ride, and I like the 18" wheels compared to 17". I don't like the fact that I can't rotate tires, but I guess you have to give up something for better cornering and handling.
All my E350's have been sport models. Much more difficult to find a luxury model due to the reason I outline in the first paragraph or two above.
My new 2012 MSRP'd for $62325.00. I paid $55,000.00 + $599 dealer fee + tax and license/tag registration. There was a $1500 incentive from Mercedes Benz Finance for loyalty with 1.65% rate for 66 months. Then, there was a $2000 incentive through USAA. That was $500 over invoice less the incentive, or $1500 under invoice.
I was very satisfied with the pricing considering the E350 sedan just hit dealerships on Monday.
I am still averaging 33.2 mpg on the high at 65 mph in cruise. That is significantly better than my 26.5 that I got on the 2011.
All in all, I am totally satisfied with the new 2012. Acceleration is phenominal compared to 2011 as is the fuel economy.
Truly, the best E350 sedan I have ever owned (I've had 8 of them since 1987).
Good luck.
2021 Genesis G90
You mention you paid $ 55,000 plus a few other fees despite MSRP of $62325. Was this the final price taken after the $1500 incentive and $2000 incentives you mention ? Or did you manage to lower the price even further than the $55K due to those incentives you mention.
Also, did you get any other specific discounts to get to the 55K figure like conquest or any other discounts ?
The reason I ask is because I am in the stage for price negotiation and since this is my first luxury car need to know how you arrived at such a good price. On my MSRP which I mention above, the dealer just quoted me split margin 7% with 3.5 % discount. I am not sure if this is a good deal or not.
Congratulations on your new car.
To the best of my knowledge, that was all I got as a discount.
They gave me 1000.00 more for my trade than Manheim auction prices for the car, which was also outstanding.
The $55,300 price was the final price after all incentive. To that, you add their dealer fee (down here in Florida, most dealers charge a fee, which is PURE PROFIT! If they charge the fee, they must charge all customers the same fee, by law, so that fee cannot be negotiated, however, the dealer, at its discretion, can take that amount off the pre-fee amount, then add the fee back in, if you know what I mean).
So, $55,300, + $599 + doc stamps for the loan, +title fee and tag fees, + sales taxes is what I paid.
Hope that helps you.
2021 Genesis G90
I have owned one of each---a Luxury and a Sport model. I'm currently driving a Sport model E350. I prefer the Luxury and am going back to it. It's really a matter of personal preference. As Mike pointed out, the ride of the luxury is smoother and I believe the Luxury cabin is quieter, probably mostly due to the different tires. I don't disagree that the Sport handles better, but the luxury model is no slouch. It corners pretty well at 110 mph on the Autobahn! (We did European delivery---a fabulous experience.) And, I fell in love with the Burl Walnut interior in the luxury and miss it. Sport....Luxury....it's all good. I don't see how you can go wrong with either! Enjoy yours!!
I'm not seeing invoice prices on Edmunds for: (2012) Premium 1....or Wood/leather steering wheel....or Active multicontour driver seat. Any idea on those or where I could find it?
And...opinion please, is Premium 2 worth the big bucks?
Getting close to making a decision :-).
Thank you!
I've had premium 1 and now, for the first time, premium 2. I drive at night, and prefer the premium 2 because of the xenon lights, curve illumination, and cornering lights. Also like the Keyless Go. Trunk openr/closer is unnecessary. So, if you drive at night, I recommend the Premium 2. If you don't drive alot during the evening, it is not worth the 2200 more, in my opinion.
By the way, just hit 33 miles per gallon with the new 2012 E350. I GUESS I FINALLY HAVE AN ECONOMY CAR! Just kidding. But, it sure gets me more mpg's than any car I've owned.
2021 Genesis G90
That's a great assessment---day vs. night driving. Most of my driving is daytime, so that may answer that. Economy car? I'm in! I just got 27.9 on the highway with my '09 4Matic and was feeling pretty good about that. 33 is impressive!!
Also---opinions of active multi contour driver seat? I was thinking I'd like that---but dealer has a luxury modelcoming in with everything else I want, EXCEPT Active multi contour driver seat. Decisions, decisions...:-)
The premium 2 if I remember correctly was around $6400 or something but I can verify that the premium 1 was listed as 3600.
Thanks for your reply and thanks also to Mike also for his detailed explanation to my questions.
I went with my father in law today (unplanned) to go car shopping. He decided that he wanted to purchase a 2012 E350. Based on my previous relationship with Mercedes in my area, I was not able to get much of a discount because the salesman told me that they don't mark up the prices like they used to so there is no room for haggling.
Well today, we looked at this 2012 E350 Sedan invoiced at $55,405. When we went into the salesman office, he said the best he could do was $54,872 with ttl and he will throw in 3 years free maintenance. On impulse, we agreed to it.
I currently have a loan with Mercedes Financial and was just aware of the $1,500 incentive from reading this forum. So now, I'm feeling really down knowing that I didn't get a good deal on this at all. Can someone shed some light?
Thanks in advance.
I have never had the multi-contour seat before (I have it now on the 2012). I like the fact that you can set it to "grab your sides" more tightly, giving you better support on turns. Also, that you can "extend" the length of the thigh bolsters - I'm 6'2" and that certainly mades driving more comfortable.
I have not tried the vibrating massage function yet (don't know why I haven't, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet). Best add-on option to me was the ventilated front seats - it was very warm and humid here on Monday, and the fan (3 speed choices for each front seat) really cooled by rear end and my lower back.
Hope this is helpful to you.
2021 Genesis G90
It sounds like your salesman and his manager did not afford you with the oppotunity to save some big bucks.
First of all, the dealer will get the 1500 incentive instead of you. Next, unless you got a .9 % finance rate (remember there is a 1% markup on the 1.9 % rate) he made some more money.
He was correct in stating that up front profit on Mercedes Benz vehicles has been dropping every year, but their "hold-back" on a 62325 MSRP car like mine is over $2000.00.
So, even though my dealer sold me the car for $55320.00 (invoice was $58420), remember, I got 1500 for the MB Financial incentive and another $1500 net incentive from USAA. So, he made at least $2000 on the deal with his hold back.
It's their holdback that has been increasing yearly, but the difference between MSRP and the so called dealer invoice has been narrowing.
We all have to remember something - dealers would go out of business if they didn't make an average of at least $2000 per vehicle. So, just because they sold me a car for 3000 dollars below their so called invoice, they still made a nice net profit on the deal.
I hope this has helped.
2021 Genesis G90
The more information we have at our fingertips prior to going in to buy a car, the better chance we all have of getting a fair, if not good deal.
2021 Genesis G90
Abacomike....and other, question. I own this car straight out, want to keep for at least 4-5 years. I want the car to be pristine. What do you think about (remember I live in CANADA) 3m StoneGuard and/or MUDFLAPS on an E Class to avoid that nasty road spray/rock pellets???
Since you've got the ventilated seats, I'd go ahead and turn the vibrating massage seats on high! lol...
I, too, have long legs---once had a Mustang with extendable bolsters and loved them.
As always, very helpful. Debating back and forth on what I want. It's exhausting ....
2021 Genesis G90
When I "build" the car online it lets me build it with MBTex and Premium 2, but if you choose the heated/ventilated seats individual option it forces you to pick leather.
I've had both leather and MB Tex, and while I miss the leather aroma, I like how the MB Tex is holding up better.
I prefer MBtex. They are easier to clean and hold up better to wear. This is the first Mercedes I've had with leather seating. And you are correct, they sure smell better than MBtex.
Quite frankly, the leather seats feel and look like the MBtex seats.
2021 Genesis G90
I seem to be finding more and more new technologies on the 2012 E350.
2021 Genesis G90
2021 Genesis G90
I would suggest that you give them a call yourself to satisfy your concern. I was just as concerned. Believe me, I checked into this thoroughly and I was satisfied with their response. Remember, if they charged me an additional $500 for an option that is standard on the car, they would have been liable for fraud, at the very least.
2021 Genesis G90
I would guess that Mercedes Benz will also add other incentives for NOvember and December. Last year, you got 3 years of Mbrace services free. Remember, if you use the USAA incentive, any other incentives available to you cannot be used with the exception of the MB Financial incentive. For instance, if there is a loyalty or conquest incentive, it cannot be used in conjunction with the USAA incentive. Last year, I go the $1500 MB Financial incentive, but not the 2000 loyalty incentive offered to current MB owners.
If the car is scheduled to be built in mid NOvember, REMEMBER, it takes about 6 weeks from start of build to delivery to the port. So, you are running very close to end of December, beginning of January.
Good luck, I hope it comes prior to January.
2021 Genesis G90
And, you are correct in your statement that it is a double whammy. Leather is 1620 dollars along with the 500 dollars or so for the ventilated seats (all they do is perforate all the leather with holes and add a fan under each seat). So, you are paying over 2000 dollars to get ventilated seats. As I have mentioned before on this site, Mercedes Benz just seems to refuse to make leather standard, as does BMW (you must purchase Dakota leather or a premium package to get leather) on the E 350 as well as the C class. When you are purchasing a car for 56000 (or 62,350 in my case), you would think leather should be standard. Leather is standard on INfiniti, LExus, Jaguar, Cadillac, Lincoln, to name a few. Why not MErcedes?
I rest my case!
2021 Genesis G90
What I was trying to communicate is that most luxury cars come standard with leather. Mercedes does not, at least in its C and E class cars. As I also stated, I cannot tell the difference between MBtex and leather, with the exception of the aroma in the car from the leather.
If given a choice (which I was not), I would have the MBTex, especially here in Florida where the hot sun eventually deteriorates the leather.
2021 Genesis G90
For those wondering why Mercedes doesnt make leather standard....the answer is obvious....competitive pricing combined with profit.
But for 2012 you can get a walnut burl interior with the sport model.
I saw this in the cars I was looking at.
That and $9500 off made my day. Sure I would like a 2012 but don't think that I went wrong. Have P2 pkg.