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Good, Cheap Beater Cars & Inexpensive Commuter Cars - how to find one?
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I will soon be going through the same process for a teenage driver. My first choice if buying today, considering everything, would be a creampuff 94-95 Mazda 929, something I'd like to drive myself.
Some recent "boring" cars are reasonably reliable and cheap to insure (Lumina, Contour with V-6). These things have taken such a huge depreciation hit that they are a low financial risk.
You beat me to it! LOL!
I know you sell Toyotas, etc, but the truth is that the Elantra is a pretty good little car. Do you really think he'd get less "grief" over a new Hyundai than a 16 year old beater? While a Hyundai might still be the kiss of death for some people, the new ones are a lot of car for not much money, and people are starting to see that (and are getting great deals, to boot). I was probably the most died in the wool Hyundai hater around, due mostly to my sister's '87 Excel that was an atrocious excuse for a vehicle. My wife liked the looks of the new Santa Fe, though, so to humor her I agreed to go test drive one. Long story short, we bought one instead of the PT Cruiser she initially wanted and haven't regretted it at all.
-Jason
Hyundai is actually a pretty huge respected company in international terms.
Ed
I've changed my position somewhat after being debated at legnth and effectively debate by my son (complete with $ comparisons and safety ratings he knows I'm so fond of).
Insurance from my agent is exactly double on the new Elantra compared to what he's paying now for the Toyota.
abtseller...I value your opinion since you're in the business. You have to admit, finding a new or even a one year old corrola/civic for anything near $10K is next to impossible. Particularly finding one with side air bags, A/C and power windows/locks and heated outside mirrors, which is what the Elantra comes standard with.
I've never been a fan of Hyundai. I'm beginning to believe that they aren't the garbage that others try to portray them to be.
Although, I don't like anything they make for me personally, I certainly see their appeal. If I were a yong lad/lady looking for a first new car or looking at late model used cars, I'd be foolish not to look at what they're offering based on their warranty alone.
If I were in the business of selling competing models like a Cavalier, Focus, Protege, Sunbird, Civic, Corolla, whatever Mitsubishi is offering, I'd be hard pressed to make a case against the Hyundai. Resale would be the only weapon. With a 5-10 year warranty like the Hyndai, resale becomes a non-issue since it's cheaper to buy and you could drive it for years while under warranty until it's worth nothing anyway.
I hope that the LeSabre is in good hands. Has anyone cried yet?
The Elantra Sedan is butt-ugly. The Elantra GT is an entirely different story.
bored, the Mazda 929 is rear wheel drive, my preference for a used car, as its easier to work on, and more durable, in theory at least. Its the last of the great rear-drive [non-permissible content removed] (5 years ago I would have recommended the Cressida as well, but they're a bit long in the tooth by now). These cars handle far better than the large American cars.The better road manners and the joy of driving, to me, is worth the added risk of more expensive repairs than, say on Crown Vics, for example. (and we had a nice Crown Vic once so I know from whence I speak, but the wifey hated "the tuna boat" and I got rid of it).
The 929 was a gorgeous car, but that steering wheel made me spread my legs (no nasty comments, please ;-) and the center console, tranny hump, etc, cut down a lot on room. I really felt wedged in there. I forget what year they quit making the 929, but did any of them ever have a tilt wheel?
I know the 929 did not have tilt in '92 which was a design flaw for a vehicle with a height adjustable seat, unless it was intended to be driven with your knees whilst balancing the fries, cheeseburger and beverage! According to Edmunds' list of standard features, tilt wheel was added in '93 (maybe you drove an early one). I'd like to find a '94 or '95 (last year) with limited slip rear. My biggest complaint is that they have small trunks and all came loaded with too many elec. doodads like the sunroof that increase the risk of repairs.
I'm guessing that since they were pretty rare even when new, that they'd be pretty hard to find parts for nowadays.
I forgot to add that the snakeheads in your vicinity cross route 301 just to eat Mazdas for breakfast.
He's actually getting only about 1 MPG better fuel economy with the Camry as he was getting with the LeSabre (mid-20s).
I've nixed the new Elantra idea for the time being. Once the Camry dies, I might give that option another look. My son is willing to work the amount of hours it would take to pay for the Elantra. I just don't want him getting behind in his school work, with college looming, to work more hours to pay for the Elantra. If he can muster to save $3K by this summer, I'd finance him for the rest so he can keep his school year workload reasonable.
As I told him last night, I don't know of many banks that would still be in business if they charged 0% interest on a loan like I'm willing to do.
Even though he goes to a private Jesuit school, my son said he'd be the only one in his Junior class with a new car. I just don't see all the BMWs, Audis, new Camaros/Firebirds, Toyotas and Hondas everyone else talks about other students driving at their schools.
Makes you wonder, huh? But seriously, there is this (1) BMW 7-Series, driven by a student (Probably belongs to a parent), in our school parking lot. Others include 2 Neons, 3 LeSabres, 2 Chrysler LeBarons, 1 Jeep Cherokee, 1 GMC Yukon, 2 Dodge Shadows, and others.
So, he's actually driving the Camry? I just don't get it. I know you are just waiting for that phone call... "Dad, come pick me up from work. My car's dead." I hope that'll never happen, but it's bound to sometime soon.
So, what do you think of the Hyundai Elantra idea?
Peer Pressure, what is that? I don't believe that I have ever been subject to it...possibly because I don't care, but some people do. Maybe you should ask your son why.
The Elantra idea is a very good one.
As far as peer pressure, it's good that you don't care. That means you are your own man.
I'll take a look at the Elantra issue again when the Camry dies.
As I alluded to before, if I were Honda or Toyota (I really don't thing that GM or Chrysler can really play in the economy car sand box...but Ford has the highly regarded Focus), I'd be worried about the low end of their product mix. In fairness to Toyota, they've moved the Corrola up-market and higher purchase prices, so they can weather the Hyundai on-slaught, somewhat. Honda has a different problem. They have the Civic, which hasn't exactly been well received that, in real world terms, can't really justify the cost differential between it and the Elantra (which has much more in the way of equipment and warranty).
The local Hyundai dealer has a Civic, a Corolla and a Cavalier (all '02s) that you can drive in comparison to the Elantra. The Elantra gives up nothing to the Civic. The Cavalier isn't even close. The Corrola is quieter and rides a bit better, but is also more expensive when equipped the same way as the Elantra. Haven't driven a Neon, but I doubt they can compete.
This is a far cry from "beater cars". But, if you consider the $$$ spent for 3 or 4 "disposable beaters" over a 5 year period compared to purchasing a new Elantra, it begins to make more sense.
you mean
...but Ford has the highly lemony Focus)"
I don't mean to butt in to your life, but do you know exactly WHY your son gave up the LeSabre? I would really LOVE to know. Oh, have you heard from the buyer? Does he like it?
As for Toyota, yeah he was banned, but he's been back under several new usernames, with the SAME story, each time. He once had a couple topics in Smart Shopper about "his dreams".
It was a combination of things that made my son give up the LeSabre. He wanted a car totally in his name for the sense of ownership that gives him. My "Rules for Driving" haven't changed, so it really nets him nothing regarding his driving privileges, but my name was on the title to the LeSabre since I kicked in half its purchase price. I also think my son's friends were needling him a bit about driving a Buick. Usually that doesn't bother him, but the needling was coming from his "female" friends where image is everything (or so he thinks).
It really didn't bother him to drive the LeSabre until he started dating this one particular girl recently. I know her family. They are good people and she really is a sweet girl. She's driving a '91 Camry, so I suspect that had something to do with it, too.
I always told my son that when he buys a car with his own money, he can drive whatever he wants. Well, I had to stick to my word, so now he drives the Camry. He bought it on his own. I told him I thought it was a poor decision compared to the LeSabre, but I'm not about to go back on my word.
Why they think that the '86 Camry is "cooler" than the LeSabre is beyond me.
I dropped off all the service receipts for the LeSabre to the new owners. They said they had to put a new starter in. I knew it was going bad, and told them so before they bought it. I didn't think it would happen so quickly, though. They put new belts and a new thermostat on it. I didn't think it needed any of that, but their mechanic told them it would be a good idea. I think they got "taken" by the mechanic, but it's not my car anymore. Aside from that, they seem happy with it. It'll go another 50K miles, easily.
Ford has had its share of "gremlins" with the Focus, but it seems to get rave reviews in all the "car mags". I only drove one as a rental during a business trip. It seemed to be a nice enough car, if you can tell after only driving one for a couple of days.
There is bunches of pre-owned Corollas, Prizms, Sentra's, Protege's, Buick Regals/Centurys-Olds Alero/Intrigue, that will do the job for lot's less than that $10,0 mark .. I see Hyundai's (and Kia) all day long at the auctions with 5/15/25k dropped off from the rental co's, previous trades whatever, with starter, engine, clutch, wiper, power window, radio, door locks, electrical that can't be found, etc, etc, etc. ..
I really don't care (or believe) what the C&D, AW, MT have to say .. driving 1 or 2 of them is not like seeing 1,000/2,000 a month come in on transports clogging up the lanes .. so much for that warranty thing.
My 2 cts ..
Terry.
I've thought about the "Alero", also. Given Oldsmobile's "death watch", I thought they would be a decent buy.
What's your opinion of 2-3 year old Aleros? Fair price?
Problem is no one else (my teen, to be specific) thinks so.
I didn't know that cars could be titled to car owners UNDER the age of 18. I'm going to have to look into that... I thought it had to be in either of the parents' name.
Nowadays, if a teenager says, "I wouldn't be caught dead driving it, the parent goes out and buys the kid another vehicle - and then tells me he can't understand why his precious is so spoiled and does not respect him.
I know that that is a generalization in that some families can't afford it. However, I see it among my friends and my clients all the time.
The first kid that tells me "I would rather ride the bus" (than drive an econobox) will be handed a stack of bus schedules with a sigh of relief.
In this county this year (McHenry Co.), we have had over a dozen teenage fatalities. Something tells me that giving a teenager their own vehicle may not be the best plan.
Getting back on topic before I am banned from this board, somehow to me, a $10k car does not qualify as a "beater" for a teenager. In fact, it is probably more vehicle than I have ever owned.
If I was going to buy a "beater" right now, I would be looking at a 1995-96 Olds Ciera as a choice. It is a workhorse, absolutely the most boring car in every possible way around. However, you can get into a reliable one for about $3k or less. My only expense this year other than the oil changes and the tire rotations has been a $1.99 light bulb that went out on Monday night.
While I think that technologically they are behind, I have had fewer problems with the midsized and larger GM vehicles than other models that I have driven.
Graphic, you can get a 99 Alero for about $8-9k at the current time, maybe less.
RRoyce is right. On the used car side, this market is Nirvana. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess, it looks like my current buggy is a shoo-in for 200k.
What an opportunity for real conversation between parents and teens, going over budgets, preferences, pros and cons, etc.
I am not buying a car to make me look sexy or popular. I am not going to be like my 50-ish co-worker who has to buy a Corvette every two years and comes whining to me that he doesn't have the money to retire until he is 70.
I am not looking at a vehicle to give me some kind of status. I don't give a rat's *ss if my neighbor doesn't like my sled. The people who laugh at my old vehicles are the ones that call me in February when their vehicle is at the dealership asking for a ride to work.
Here in Chicago, it makes a lot more sense in pouring money into a house where you will see some appreciation over time than in an asset that loses half of its value every other year.
Maybe I have a different view. I think that young people ought to be spending their money getting an education rather than blowing the money on car expenses. I see so many 24 year olds who graduate from college with tremendous debt loads. They spend their 20's and 30's which are the real wealth building years paying off their early mistakes.
Caramo makes a great point that I made several months ago on the teen car thread. I do not think that the average teen has a clue of how much their vehicle costs per month or per mile.
I like boring cars that deliver reliable miles - lots of them.
Terry.
I don't have to pay for my education. Not even college, so I'm not worried about that...
"To me, a car is nothing more than a machine that gets you from point A to point B. And it is an expense, not an asset."
Sure, I definitely agree. Give me a Yugo that runs, and I'll be happy. Speaking of Yugo, that's the ultimate beater of the century.
"Caramo makes a great point that I made several months ago on the teen car thread. I do not think that the average teen has a clue of how much their vehicle costs per month or per mile."
Yes, this is true...because I do not know how to calculate this data (But I do care). Could someone help me please?
Unfortunately, it has become a neccesity, as much for the parents convenience as it is for the teen.
Regarding a $10K car (in this case a new '03 Hyundai Elantra), from purely a financial perspective, I think it offers an alternative to the proverbial "beater". My thinking surrounds replacing a beater every 1-2 years at $2K-$3K a pop. If you take into consideration that the warranty on the Hyundai covers everything for at least 5 years (10 years on the drivetrain), it begins to become an intriguing alternative to buying multiple beaters. The way this started, I saw an advertisement for a new Elantra with A/C, side airbags, power windows, locks, mirrors and the mirrors are even heated. The car's MSRP was $13K+. The local dealers are selling them for just under $10K, with rebate. Add the decent reviews the car is getting and the great warranty, it begins to look more compelling.
camaro...you are so correct about using the opportunity to discuss finances with a teen using a car as the beginning lesson. My 16 year old and I communicate better now than ever because of this very issue. We regularly talk about cars and their costs.
bored...the data is easy to figure. Without getting into "opportunity costs" of money (whole different layer added to the cost of a car), you take purchase price (or the total financed amount including interest), maintenance expenses, gas, insurance cost, tags, taxes and add them all together. With that figure, you can divide by the number of years you think you'll have the car, or the number of months, weeks, days....you pick. That will give you the cost per year, month, week, day, etc. Or you can use that figure and divide it by the number of miles you think you'll drive the car to get the dollar per mile cost.
My son can tell me his cost per mile and/or cost per month based on this equation right off the top of his head. That was one of our "financial" discussions.
The new-Hyundai idea is not way off in terms of financial sense, but I bet you could pick carefully and come out several thou ahead in five years going with the used car.
Depreciation on a new car is always the biggest expense you have on it - the new Elantra will depreciate $6000 in the first three years, and that is not even figuring in the interest you may or may not be paying on the loan, if there is one.
The $2000 car you might buy will hardly depreciate at all...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I must have been hard on my beaters as they rarely ran more than 1-1.5 years.
I mention this because a co-worker made the mistake of buying an Elantra. Yes, it was cheap, and he has the warranty peace of mind. But his insurance is absurd. Also, if your situation changes, you are stuck with the steepest depreciation. In his case, his wife surprised him with a new baby, and they need a minivan - but they are stuck with a nearly worthless Elantra. (and a new minivan - what they now need, costs about half as much to insure as an Elantra).
I think sometimes they just stick smaller cars with high premiums anyway, no matter how well they score in crash testing. While a Corolla is still a small car, it does seem significantly bigger than an Elantra. It's just a simple fact that, no matter how well a car does in a regulated crash test, if you go out and play tag with something bigger, most likely you're going to lose!
Add all your operating expenses for a year, then divide by either miles driven or 12 months. These expenses include:
- fuel costs
- maintenance (oil, tune ups, other fluid changes)
- tire wear based on reduction of tread depth over 12 months
- insurance
- parking and/or toll fees
- government fees (registration, taxes, etc.)
- seasonal or regional requirements (e.g. snow tires)
Most people don't bother to diligently keep such records unless they deduct them on their income taxes. It adds up fast and furious, though.
kcram
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If you have an older car though, that you don't drive much, either one is actually pretty useless. For instance, I've had my '67 Catalina almost 9 years now. I've put maybe $5500 into it total, including its purchase price. I've put about 10,000 miles on it in that time. On a cost-per-month basis, that comes out to a nice low $53 per month ($5500/104 months) which sounds incredibly sweet. On a cost-per-mile basis, it comes out to about $.55 a mile + gas + insurance, which sounds poorhouse-bound! Unless this thing was my daily driver, both figures are pretty meaningless.
it may well be that since all Hyundais are built in Korea (right? check me here) replacement body panels cost a lot more.
Also, there is an economy of scale at work...if a carmaker makes a million cars a year that have certain body panels, it will charge less for replacement of each one.
If, like Hyundai, it makes them only for one medium-volume model, individual body part prices are bound to be higher.
According to a friend who works in insurance, the cost of replacement body pieces is always the primary factor in determining rates for collision and comprehensive. This jibes with what I have read in the past in Consumer Reports too.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Ed
There's no hard and fast rule as to which is better. The older the car is, the more likely things like rust, dry rot, etc. are likely to take their toll. High mileage cars will have parts that are just plain worn out.
It really does depend on how well the car has been taken care of.
I posted some general "rules of thumb" regarding accessing the condition of a used car a while ago.
Just a few highlights:
--any squeaks, squeals coming from under the hood could be anything from a worn belt to a bad water pump.
--any unusual wear on the tires could be anything from the tires being unbalanced to suspension work that needs to be done.
--any "overspray" paint found under the hood, under the chasis, under the trunk lid, could mean the car was wrecked or significant rust needed to be repaired.
There are many more things to look for, but the above is a good starting point.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Me? i define "beater" as something at least 8 years old, has a large amount of dents, and has plenty of miles on it, but the overalll condition is good.
Car_man
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2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)