....there has to be some reasons, other than OPEC's greed, our government's ineptitude and the fact that it's Spring, for our higher prices, right? Please?
.....every president since tricky Dick has done absolutely nothing in terms of developing an energy plan which should have been set in motion right after our first energy crisis back in '73?
So the OPEC production cut of 4% goes into effect and it's all over the news. I can't think of a time that news like that did not INSTANTLY affect prices at the pump here, yet the price hasn't budged. Very strange...
Here in little 'ol Hillsville, VA, prices range from in the town limits at $1.639 for regular, $1.739 for midgrade, and $1.839 for premium, to the highest prices right at I-77 interchange of $1.749 regular, $1.849 midgrade, and $1.949 for premium. If you're travelling on I-77 through this area anytime soon, when you get off the interstate, head towards Hillsville (about 3 minutes from the interstate) and save yourself 11 cents a gallon. I'm sure this is probably the same with any locality thats right on the interstate or a major highway. You gotta pay for convenience.
at the local Citgo, which is the gas station nearest to my home, and usually one of the cheapest around. $1.759 per gallon, for 87 octane. I've been jotting down the price of gas every time I fill up, just to see how much it fluctuates. Last time I filled up, about 2 weeks ago, it was $1.739/gal. About 3 months ago, it was only something like $1.379/gal. Amazing how quickly it can creep up on ya!
"Just because the price of gas is higher everywhere else in the world isn't justification for our prices to be jacked up."
What? I was not equating the recent price increases we've experienced with higher prices elsewhere. Prices overseas are higher for different reasons that why our prices go up. Oil companies operate in a free market and to an extent, it is an oligopoly, sure. But, that's a function of the industry. Think how inefficient it would be to have 100s of companies trying to refine oil all over the place at the same time. Prices would likely be higher since the current oil companies have been able to secure tremendous economies of scale.
I tend to be cynical when I want, but I simply am not in this case. I don't presume that somewhere someone is gouging us just because they can. Why do I believe this? Because, in the world's largest gasoline market, we enjoy one of the lowest average gasoline prices in the industrialized world. So, if we were prone to being gouged by the horrible oil companies, why aren't prices even higher?
The problem is not supply of oil, OPECs cuts or even the filling of the SPR. It's a refining issue--our demand for gasoline exceeds our ability and/or capacity to refine it as quickly as needed.
At any rate, I really don't understand the problem. If the price is too high, it is like any other product, use less. Whether it be buying a smaller vehicle or driving less. And I am not talking about forcing people to drive hockey pucks--you're free to drive whatever you want--I'm not a tree hugging crybaby who thinks Hummers are a sign of the apocalypse. But don't complain about your gas costs when prices increase if you drive a vehicle that is relatively inefficient.
Look at it this way and it's an example I've used before. Many people in my small town commute to a larger city 30 miles away.
Let's say I drive a vehicle that gets 15 mpg. I use 4 gal of fuel/day for my commute (for the purposes of the example, ignore running around town, etc). At $1.50/gal my fuel costs are $120/mo for my commute. But at $2/gal, my costs are $160/mo. So is that $40/mo a massive difference? Having been in bad spot before, I know it can be. But, should I then rant and rave about anyone but myself for driving this 15 mpg vehicle? No. The price is what it is--it certainly is not gouging and it isn't illegal. You can choose not to pay.
Gouging is what happened in our town on 9/11. 2 stations in town raised their price by $0.50 to $0.75 a gallon. 2 did not. People, for whatever idiotic panic-driven stupid reason, were lined up around the block for gas. I was at a quarter tank and filled up days later when I needed gas. I refuse to buy gas to this day from the stations that raised prices. That's the market at work, because one owner who raised prices was embarrassed in the local paper.
...unfortunate truth that most of us (North Americans) are totally reactionary when we feel like we're going to run out of anything, or in a distant second, when any event might hit us in the pocketbook, at which point we just beeyotch but don't panic or adjust consumption. I'm sorry I can't sympathise much with people earning $50k+ annually, driving $25k+ vehicles getting ~15mpg whining about 30 cents a gallon increase, given the state of most of the world. Not to be too political, but if you don't like the price of gas, drive less or get more efficient vehicle, simple. I've been DREAMING of a Corolla or Civic to replace the two SUVs in my household (neither of which I own, bought or chose).
Soapbox off. Sorry to offend, if I did.
Anywho, petrol here in good ol' Chicago north side is averaging $1.979/2.079/2.179, based on casual observation.
Moved from Duluth, GA to Columbus, GA this week. Gas here seems to be about the same as gas in Duluth. Most stations sell 87 octane for about $1.65 to $1.67 a gallon--however, I saw a "cheap" gas station yesterday at $1.58. The 7-9 cent drop from the other stations I see has me worried about that place!
The United States is not as important to OPEC as we once were. OPEC might be our biggest supplier, but we are not their biggest customer. In fact, I think we are about number four. Numbers one and two are China and India, but I have forgotten number three.
State College, PA prices STILL holding steady at $1.699 for 87. I don't know why, since there has been a lot of "news pressure" to move prices up. Could it have something to do with switching from winter to spring/summer product? Seems a bit early here for that to be a factor...
$1.59 a gallon at a station in tiny Montreal, MO. That is fairly close to the Lake of the Ozarks in mid-Missouri. I've been paying 4 to 10 cents more a gallon than that for 87 in Rolla, MO.
It's actually in Shorewood -- but who's heard of Shorewood? :-)
The intersection of Route 59 and Black Road has the Dominicks with the gas pumps. Their advertised price is $1.78, but the Dominicks card gives you three cents off per gallon. In the olden days, there would be special, unannounced times when you would get 6 cents or even 9 cents off per gallon. Haven't had one of those in a long time.
There was a Dominicks on Jefferson Street, but it closed a while ago, along with alot of other commercial properties.
Don't tell me you're a JCA grad -- my wife is an alum of Providence Catholic, ya know!
Actually, my cousin and his family live in Shorewood, though I don't know where exactly, I've never been there. My aunt (whose home I visited on Easter) lives, I guess, technically, in Manhattan or maybe Elwood (she's a bit east of 53 on Manhattan/Arsenal Road, very near Route 66 Speedway). Wow, small world.
over here in Rolla(mid-Missouri)I paid $1.679 for unleaded 87 yesterday at Break Time. That is one whole penny more than majorthomecho paid in Kansas City, MO. Good to see that gas prices are "fair" per region in the "Show Me" state, eh? BTW-our sunny-sun-sunshiny weather we experienced today is going to last throughout the weekend and get a tad warmer day by day, too. We'll be in the 70's and sunny this weekend. Whoo-hoo!
Here in the capitol of land of "tree hugging liberals", we're paying 1.939 @ Chevron, 1.899 @ Shell, and 1.799 @ Costco. Best part is....we don't do the pumping!
I read the news, I see the stories on TV... there's no lack of upward pressure on prices at the pump, yet our current price of $1.699 for 87 went into affect on March 1st (as I posted on March 2nd here) That was on the news of PROPOSED production decreases by OPEC. WHY the prices haven't moved since then is a real puzzler.
......Bush is just sitting back and doing nothing about these gas prices. He should be talking with the OPEC leaders to get them to stop this nonsense of decreasing oil production. For a guy who's trying to get re-elected, he sure is going about it in a strange way.
Our apparent freeze on gas prices here in NE WI has apparently ended as I noticed gas prices are now $1.829/1.879(or 1.889, I forget the mid price a lot)/1.949. 4 cent increase in one day.
Bottgers,I am far from a Bush supporter, but I have to ask, what exactly do you expect Bush (or any President, for that matter) to be able to do? OPEC is cartel. It controls a large amount of the current production capacity, but also future production. They can choose, in their own right, how much or how little to produce. They could flood the market and probably bring prices down 50 cents (or more). But, that doesn't solve increased demand, Iraq instability, etc. I've said it before and apparently, it bears repeating. Oil prices, in large measure are set by futures markets. Futures traders are wacky for often inexplicable reasons. They drive up the price because they THINK demand will be very high or OPEC MIGHT cut production or whatever. pf flyer's report of 1.699 in his area is seemingly incongruent with my report of 1.829--an area that does not use reformuated gas and is nearby a larg(ish) port (Green Bay).
Our price is not higher because of OPEC. In fact, it is probably impossible to pinpoint a singular reason why--likely a result of 5 or 6 or 10 variables.
If you sold widgets and you were prescient enough to know exactly what market equilibrium was for your product everyday, wouldn't you produce that many widgets? Similarly, OPEC knows if it produces too little, prices will become so high as to affect demand and if they produce too much, prices will fall to the point of not being economically intelligent.
As it is, most OPEC members have a poor history of following quotas anyway--so what matter is what's actually produced, not what the committee decides. (Which might explain why, despite all the talk of decreased production, pf flyer's prices have not gone up).
Lastly, you cannot deposit crude oil directly into your tank. It must be refined into gasoline. Thus, if OPEC produced every drop of oil it possibly could, that still might not affect gas prices, as refining capacity in the US is near maximum already and most refining is done here, since it doesn't pay to refine it elsewhere and THEN ship the huge numbers of different refined products to us.
So, since you expect the POTUS to solve this supposed crisis, I'm wondering what your proposed solution would be? What do you suggest?
The idea of running an oil company IS to make profits. Are they supposed to make NONE? The market decides what they make, doesn't it? My choices, your choices, their choices. All gets mixed around and poof... an agreed upon price that the commodity sells at. Even a two cent change in the price affects the demand for gas, might not be a radical change in the demand, but I'd bet it's measurable. Maybe it IS the fact that refining capacity in the US is basically maxed out. If they're producing as much as they can right now and the OPEC cut in production really didn't affect prices as much as previous cuts did, perhaps they're not short of crude oil to refine. In which case, their demand for crude is by definition reduced, which puts downward pressure on the price. OPEC wants to keep selling, but if we're buying less, why SHOULD they maintain production levels? The markets within the market (e.g State College, PA, LA, etc) all have their own pressures of supply and demand. SoCal folks obviously want more gas than we do here in central PA... ergo $2.25 in San Diego vs $1.69 here...
Not trying to make any SENSE here, just rambling out loud...
In the past, members of the President's staff have conferred with members of the OPEC nations regarding oil production. There's absolutely no reason why Bush's staff couldn't and shouldn't be doing the same right now. You don't think OPEC would listen to one of their biggest customers? I believe they would. If prices keep going as they currently are, they'll be so high by mid summer that it's really going to start hitting people unecessarily hard in the wallet.
Let me ask you this, if what OPEC does doesn't control, or at least have a profound affect on gas prices, then why is it every time there's even talk of tight supplies due to either a decrease in production, or an OPEC refusal to increase production to meet an increase in demand, the price at the pump jumps almost instantainiously? OPEC and big oil companies run the world and that's exactly what's wrong with this whole picture.
What has me scratching my head this time is that despite REPEATED news items that normally would have made me expect 5 to 10 cent increases, the price at the pump here hasn't budged in almost 7 weeks.
Now if the price doesn't jump around Friday of this coming week here, I may have to check the snowfall accumulation in the infernal regions... the Penn State spring football game is on Saturday and the stations around here NEVER miss a chance to have 60,000 extra people filling up to go home at a slightly higher price.
I wish we were having to deal with your problem here. Our prices have steadily been rising with no end in sight. I've also recently traveled from Cheyenne WY to Dayton OH and saw high prices everywhere we stopped for gas. If prices keep going as they currently are, I'm predicting you won't be able to buy gas anywhere in the states for less than $2 a gallon.
I think what you are seeing is the first signs of a general inflation in prices on all products. Good for business (maybe), bad for consumer. Watch for interest rates to go up, too.
that interest rates on home loans are about to go up, if they haven't already started. Mr.Greenspan and The Fed should be getting ready to raise the prime rate as well. Nice while it lasted, huh?
gas prices just set a record for the U.S.at an average retail price of $1.80 a gallon for regular no-lead. The Internet story included a blurb about gas prices in 1980, after adjusting for inflation, actually costing us more, at $3.00 a gallon. No, we didn't pay $3.00 a gallon but you know what they mean. So, it really is rising as fast as the L.A.Lakers NBA playoff hopes, huh? Are the Sacramento Kings gonna choke again?!! Me thinks they are! For some reason I can't envision the Lakers advancing all the way to the title series either, though.
......for interest rates to go up? Typically, interest rates are raised to slow down a booming economy. Our economy is just starting to come around again after a long slump. Now seems a bit soon for Mr Greenspan to start raising rates. Why would the feds want to keep the economy in the dumps?
I think what the Fed is saying is that the economy is starting to come back and interest rates are way too low that they do not want to see inflation start up. Therefore it is easier to try and bring the interest rates up slowly now as oppossed to waiting until inflation starts.
....and eat it too. The economy isn't going to come out of its slump unless inflation takes place. The two go hand-in-hand. I think interest rates need to stay right where they are until the economy gets moving better than it is right now.
Then again... (stream of conciousness alert) by pf_flyer HOST Apr 16, 2004 (7:10 pm) The idea of running an oil company IS to make profits. Are they supposed to make NONE?
I filled up with 87 octane at the end of last week for $1.68 a gallon at a Shell station and my wife bought 87 octane at a BP station for $1.66 a gallon.
Please! If Bush was doing anything about these prices it would be all over the news. Instead he's been getting hammered by the dems and media alike for not doing anything. I believe this is going to seriously hurt his bid for re-election.
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PF Flyer
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This week filling up in the SF Bay Area $2.09 at Alpha Gas, $2.19 next door at Chevron (regular).
What? I was not equating the recent price increases we've experienced with higher prices elsewhere. Prices overseas are higher for different reasons that why our prices go up. Oil companies operate in a free market and to an extent, it is an oligopoly, sure. But, that's a function of the industry. Think how inefficient it would be to have 100s of companies trying to refine oil all over the place at the same time. Prices would likely be higher since the current oil companies have been able to secure tremendous economies of scale.
I tend to be cynical when I want, but I simply am not in this case. I don't presume that somewhere someone is gouging us just because they can. Why do I believe this? Because, in the world's largest gasoline market, we enjoy one of the lowest average gasoline prices in the industrialized world. So, if we were prone to being gouged by the horrible oil companies, why aren't prices even higher?
The problem is not supply of oil, OPECs cuts or even the filling of the SPR. It's a refining issue--our demand for gasoline exceeds our ability and/or capacity to refine it as quickly as needed.
At any rate, I really don't understand the problem. If the price is too high, it is like any other product, use less. Whether it be buying a smaller vehicle or driving less. And I am not talking about forcing people to drive hockey pucks--you're free to drive whatever you want--I'm not a tree hugging crybaby who thinks Hummers are a sign of the apocalypse. But don't complain about your gas costs when prices increase if you drive a vehicle that is relatively inefficient.
Look at it this way and it's an example I've used before. Many people in my small town commute to a larger city 30 miles away.
Let's say I drive a vehicle that gets 15 mpg. I use 4 gal of fuel/day for my commute (for the purposes of the example, ignore running around town, etc). At $1.50/gal my fuel costs are $120/mo for my commute. But at $2/gal, my costs are $160/mo. So is that $40/mo a massive difference? Having been in bad spot before, I know it can be. But, should I then rant and rave about anyone but myself for driving this 15 mpg vehicle? No. The price is what it is--it certainly is not gouging and it isn't illegal. You can choose not to pay.
Gouging is what happened in our town on 9/11. 2 stations in town raised their price by $0.50 to $0.75 a gallon. 2 did not. People, for whatever idiotic panic-driven stupid reason, were lined up around the block for gas. I was at a quarter tank and filled up days later when I needed gas. I refuse to buy gas to this day from the stations that raised prices. That's the market at work, because one owner who raised prices was embarrassed in the local paper.
Soapbox off. Sorry to offend, if I did.
Anywho, petrol here in good ol' Chicago north side is averaging $1.979/2.079/2.179, based on casual observation.
PF Flyer
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Albuquerque $1.67
Santa Fe $1.79
El Paso $1.64
Amarillo $1.60
Denver $1.74
Durango $1.79
Flagstaff $1.95
Tucson $1.91
Las Vegas $2.12
The biggest jumps from last week were Flagstaff and Tucson both up 6 cents.
kcram
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Gas on the north side of Chicago is still holding at $1.999/2.099/2.199 at most stations.
It's actually in Shorewood -- but who's heard of Shorewood? :-)
The intersection of Route 59 and Black Road has the Dominicks with the gas pumps. Their advertised price is $1.78, but the Dominicks card gives you three cents off per gallon. In the olden days, there would be special, unannounced times when you would get 6 cents or even 9 cents off per gallon. Haven't had one of those in a long time.
There was a Dominicks on Jefferson Street, but it closed a while ago, along with alot of other commercial properties.
Don't tell me you're a JCA grad -- my wife is an alum of Providence Catholic, ya know!
Shorewood's a nice little town, though not as little as it used to be. We did get two car dealerships in the past couple of years.
in a vain attempt to keep this on topic, the gas stations by the car dealerships (and I55) are about 10 cents/gallon higher than Dominicks.
BTW-our sunny-sun-sunshiny weather we experienced today is going to last throughout the weekend and get a tad warmer day by day, too. We'll be in the 70's and sunny this weekend. Whoo-hoo!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
We'll be breaking the $2.50 barrier soon. Prices seems to be rising about .5 cents a week now out here.
Cheapest I can find for premium anywhere I've looked is $2.29.
PF Flyer
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Bottgers,I am far from a Bush supporter, but I have to ask, what exactly do you expect Bush (or any President, for that matter) to be able to do? OPEC is cartel. It controls a large amount of the current production capacity, but also future production. They can choose, in their own right, how much or how little to produce. They could flood the market and probably bring prices down 50 cents (or more). But, that doesn't solve increased demand, Iraq instability, etc. I've said it before and apparently, it bears repeating. Oil prices, in large measure are set by futures markets. Futures traders are wacky for often inexplicable reasons. They drive up the price because they THINK demand will be very high or OPEC MIGHT cut production or whatever. pf flyer's report of 1.699 in his area is seemingly incongruent with my report of 1.829--an area that does not use reformuated gas and is nearby a larg(ish) port (Green Bay).
Our price is not higher because of OPEC. In fact, it is probably impossible to pinpoint a singular reason why--likely a result of 5 or 6 or 10 variables.
If you sold widgets and you were prescient enough to know exactly what market equilibrium was for your product everyday, wouldn't you produce that many widgets? Similarly, OPEC knows if it produces too little, prices will become so high as to affect demand and if they produce too much, prices will fall to the point of not being economically intelligent.
As it is, most OPEC members have a poor history of following quotas anyway--so what matter is what's actually produced, not what the committee decides. (Which might explain why, despite all the talk of decreased production, pf flyer's prices have not gone up).
Lastly, you cannot deposit crude oil directly into your tank. It must be refined into gasoline. Thus, if OPEC produced every drop of oil it possibly could, that still might not affect gas prices, as refining capacity in the US is near maximum already and most refining is done here, since it doesn't pay to refine it elsewhere and THEN ship the huge numbers of different refined products to us.
So, since you expect the POTUS to solve this supposed crisis, I'm wondering what your proposed solution would be? What do you suggest?
Not trying to make any SENSE here, just rambling out loud...
PF Flyer
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Let me ask you this, if what OPEC does doesn't control, or at least have a profound affect on gas prices, then why is it every time there's even talk of tight supplies due to either a decrease in production, or an OPEC refusal to increase production to meet an increase in demand, the price at the pump jumps almost instantainiously? OPEC and big oil companies run the world and that's exactly what's wrong with this whole picture.
Now if the price doesn't jump around Friday of this coming week here, I may have to check the snowfall accumulation in the infernal regions... the Penn State spring football game is on Saturday and the stations around here NEVER miss a chance to have 60,000 extra people filling up to go home at a slightly higher price.
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
Santa Fe $1.82
El Paso $1.65
Amarillo $1.66
Denver $1.78
Durango $1.82
Las Vegas $2.13
Flagstaff $1.98
Tucson $1.91
All of these prices are up from last week. Albuquerque's prices just started to go up yesterday to $1.75 per gallon.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Exxon - $1.689
Shell - $1.619
Mobil - $1.599
Hess - $1.599
Raceway - $1.579
NJTPK (Sunoco) - $1.669
This is NOT self-serve!
......Bush is just sitting back and doing nothing about these gas prices.
You must be on his Cabinet if you know this to be true.
The idea of running an oil company IS to make profits. Are they supposed to make NONE?
Not just the oil companies.