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What I like about my 24 gallon gas tank and short commute is I really can't remember when I bought gas.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Mazda Mania
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On the way back, I filled up in Iowa and I remembered that 89 octane with ethanol was cheaper by a couple of cents than the 87 octane without.
Gas when we got back was around $1.709 for 87 octane.
Thank you, pf_flyer. I really don't understand what it is that people don't understand about free market, capitalist economies. A question for those "complaining" about record profits at oil companies, which to me, is either a) an indictment of any company that does what it should--show record profits quarter over quarter or b) close-mindedly arbitrary about the issue. ONLY oil companies can't make record profits, or they'll decide what a fair profit is. Has it occurred to anyone that by buying the product at a such a horrible price, they are by default, contributing to record profit? Geesh.
"Let me ask you this, if what OPEC does doesn't control, or at least have a profound affect on gas prices, then why is it every time there's even talk of tight supplies due to either a decrease in production, or an OPEC refusal to increase production to meet an increase in demand, the price at the pump jumps almost instantainiously? OPEC and big oil companies run the world and that's exactly what's wrong with this whole picture."
Wow, bottgers. The whole, entire world? I so missed the memo on that one. I don't understand why you think that kind of hyperbole helps your argument. How about facts that the oil companies "run the world".
Why do you think we are the largest market? If we have the largest demand and it's increasing, doesn't elementary economics tell you our prices should be as high as long demand sustains it? If people are willing to continue to buy as much of product without regard to price, should that price not go up until demand slackens? As far as OPEC's effect on gas prices, do you read my posts or dismiss them as too wordy and just keep repeating what you said in the hopes I'll believe it? Again, slowly: Oil is a commodity. It's price is largely, but not entirely, is set by futures buyers and traders. They respond with volatility, unpredictability and often, without sound reason. OPEC says they cut production, futures traders bid up the price of oil contracts due a few months ahead, oil companies compensate for the increase in the cost of their raw product. But, that does NOT EXPLAIN why some places just do not go up, even after that news. The reason, though, is the market itself. Besides, in today's situation, I still do not believe gas prices would drop dramatically over time, even the market was flooded with oil. Unless, of course, you've determined a way to operate your vehicle on Light Sweet Crude?
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Have you ever noticed that all cellular companies have comparable plans? How about pizza places--they are all priced close to each other. Other stores watch Wal-Mart and price competitively with them. Have you ever noticed that a comparably equipped Camry, Accord, Galant and Impala all cost roughly the same? It happens in all industries--it's just that the oil companies are the only ones who get scrutinized for it.
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PF Flyer
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How do you think new oil is discovered each year? How do you think it's transported from some of the most inhospitable places in the world and hauled halfway around the globe? The profit these companies make is what allow investment in new production exploration and development. Without that, well then, oil would be high.
(As a note, I don't work for any oil company, gas station, or refinery. My motives are not biased.) My opinion simply reflects that in a market-based, capitalist society, you need to let pricing work itself out. Only in collusion or racketeering situations are screams of "the big bad company's gouging us" valid. Think about this: Wal-Mart has found a way to drive down the price of virtually every consumer product out there, from TVs to toilet paper to clothes to computers. If there was a way to substantially undersell gas stations, would they not do it? Sure, but gas at Wal-Marts that sell gas, although lower, is not substantially so. Gas prices are not a result of gouging by oil companies at the pump. Believe or not, but bottgers, you've got to come to terms that just because something is not good for you, does it mean it's a grand conspiracy of evil.
Now if I really wanted to, I could walk to work in about an hour. The drive might take about 7 minutes. But if I were a few miles further out, that wouldn't cut it. I'm sure, in a roundabout way, I could take a bus there, but with God-only-knows how many transfers, and I'm sure it would be an incredibly convoluted route!
Before I moved, I was about 13-14 miles out from work. I could drive it in about 25 minutes. Or in that same 25 minutes, I could walk to the closest metro bus stop. And that bus only went to the subway station, so I'd have to then get another bus that went to work!
Most people are over a barrel when it comes to fuel prices, but there are things you can do to still save here and there, like consolidating trips, keeping the car tuned up, tires inflated, cutting out all the un-necessary trips, and so on. Basically the generic stuff they tell you on the internet and the news every time fuel prices rise and people start whining.
My point, in general, though, is this:
Many people in my town work in the nearest largish city, 30 mins away. For those people, gas is major cost, as it's 60-70 mi of driving everyday. If gas prices were such a horrible thing, these should either a) move closer to the job, b) find a different job closer to them, c) get a more efficient car or d) stop complaining about how it's the government's fault a commodity that is in high demand globally is not as cheap as they'd like.
Apartment rents and house prices are not that out of line in the large city as to make moving there from my town an unrealistic idea. People just want to live where they are. Fine, here are the consequences. Perhaps they like their SUV or land barge, so they don't want to buy a Civic or Cavalier. Fine, here are the consequences. And on and on. The point is none of the horror is really because gas prices are too high. It's because the mitigating actions are unappealing.
Finally, a bit of math--perspective, if you will.
Say you drive this 30 mi one way commute everyday. (Forget running errands, etc--just look at the commute).
If you drive a Durango and get perhaps 15mpg (see how easy the math works with made up numbers?). That's 4 gallons of gas a day, 20 per week, 80 per month. For commuting only. At 1.25/gal, that's $5/day, $25/week, $100/mo. At $2/gal, that's $8/day, $40/week, $160/mo. $60/mo, granted can be a lot for many people. But, if $60 is a make or break thing, how can they complain while driving a 15mpg veh? These are the kinds of things that drive me crazy. Complaining about the state of gas prices in general? Understandable. "Gee, I've never seen it this high", kind of stuff people say. But, to be outright upset over it while tooling around in a Suburban makes no sense.
Topic? Another increase in NE WI on Saturday. Now at $1.869/1.929/1.989. Up 0.080 in a week or so.
I've gone back through the posts here and just as an example, in the same time period my fellow host Mr_Shiftright has report almost a 10% increase in price. Might be interesting if you've posted prices here on a regular basis to go back and see what you were reporting around March 1st and compare it to what you're seeing now. Maybe there's some geographical pattern that makes sense...
PF Flyer
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The other posters are absolutely correct, in our society gas is every bit as necessary as food, clothing and shelter. I can eat ramen noodles if I choose, I can buy my clothes at Wal-Mart, and I can live in a smaller house; if my finances dictate that I need to. However, we all need to get to work every day to support ourselves, and for many driving is the only real solution.
The oil companies are acutely aware of this and price gas accordingly. The increase in prices will push more people into more efficient cars, but even that will only make a small dent in our countries need for gas.
BTW, I do take the bus to work about 90% of the time, but I do have to make some time and convenience sacrifices, and my company provides the bus pass for free. If I had to buy my own bus pass, it would only save me about $30 per month, and wouldn't be worth the daily inconvenince.
Also to PF Flyer, here in SLC UT, gas is running about $1.88 for reg unl. which has been on a gradual upswing from about $1.79 a month ago.
Yes, I'm sure oil companies do nothing all day but sit around and try to figure out how much they can increase prices exactly without ticking too many people off. As for the backhanded dig, feel free. I personally couldn't care less that because you cannot understand fundamental economics, you choose to insult my ethics and motives. Boo hoo. Point of fact, which bears repeating since you chose a knee-jerk, haha response instead of reading all my posts, is that I own no oil company shares, know no one who does and am only vague acquaintances with people who manage a gas station.
"If I had to buy my own bus pass, it would only save me about $30 per month, and wouldn't be worth the daily inconvenince."
which is precisely my point (and one, that mind you, pretty much destroys the point of the "oil companies must be bad--they're raising the price of a product we all need" theory). If taking your car only costs $30/mo over a bus pass, then what the heck difference does if make what the gas price is? It goes up $0.25 and now you would save $40 a month? I guess I just don't get how griping about the big bad company solves anything. Closest personal example is this: I don't like Wal-Mart. Personally, I think it destroys small business, takes advantages of its workers and in general, just a bad thing. Thus, I don't shop there. But, those are emotional responses. I accept the fact that pump tons of money into communities through property taxes and employs large numbers of people, many of whom might otherwise be unemployed. And to many, most importantly, it gives low prices on everyday items and gives oridnary folks (like me) a chance to get a nice TV or clothe and feed my kids (if I had them). These are good things for the economy in general. In addition, it's hard to be taken of advantage of when you don't have to work there. Don't like the pay or health benefits? Go work at an equally low-entry job with no benefits.
So, as much as I don't like Wal-Mart and exercise my right not to shop there (I make a probably equally bad decision by shopping at ShopKo or Target), I don't dismiss it as an evil retail empire. And why don't people scream and shout about Wal-Mart like they do oil companies? Because who cares? TVs and jeans are cheap! Gas is expensive!
Uh wait, never mind Wal-Mart tops the Fortune 500 list (ranked by revenue) and most likely out-profits all the others, too. But, profit's good if it helps me, right?
If someone could give a logical answer...a truthful one, not based on speculation, I think most people would be more comfortable the current situation.
Does any of this make sense?
Just my opinion here folks...and no, I don't work for an oil company or Wal-Mart, I work for the U S government.
The Sandman :-)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Mazda Mania
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PF Flyer
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In addition, you can look at the difference between metro Chicago and other parts of IL. A lot of this difference can be attributed to the formulations the EPA requires be used in different parts of the country. Yet another refining process or step for what otherwise is the same product has to introduce cost. And, when you contemplate that these reformulated versions are typically used in urban (and thus, likely high demand) areas, you only need a basic understanding of economics to see what those prices are higher.
This has been my only real point. That gas prices are not and cannot be totally correlated to the price of oil. And further, if the POTUS or anyone else could get oil prices down, it does not assure a similiar reduction in gas prices. (Although, I admit, it certainly is probably the best way to try).
I'd love to see price breakdowns, justifications, and correlations to past increases every time prices jump for unknown reasons. Of course, when you're gouging, you don't have to do that. Money buys right.
You illustrated the perfect difference here. You can choose to shop at other stores because you don't like the way Wal-Mart operates, but people buying gas don't have that option. Sure I could buy gas at Sunoco instead of at the Exxon station, but what's the point? They all operate exactly the same way, and they all charge within a few cents of each other for their product. The oil industry and its prices are strongly ruled and regulated by the iron fists of OPEC and big oil companies. If you don't think they can do exactly what they want, you must be living under a mushroom! BTW, what's up with the taxes in your state? They're ridiculously high? My outlaws live in Wisconsin. I have to admit it's a beautiful state and I wouldn't mind living there myself, but the property taxes are outragous! What is so expensive there that they have to have such high taxes?
Wisconsin's sales tax is 5%, but sales tax in any state is never a truly punitive thing. Our property taxes are generally high, but that's a function of our school and local use funding mechanism. I live in a small town of 4500. The only funding my town has to pay its police, fire, street maintainence, etc is from its share of property tax. Toss the cost of schools in there and that tax needs to be high to do the funding. Of course, we have a full-time police and a full-time fire department and rescue squad. Can't have low taxes and all the services.
bottgers, I see your point that gas stations cannot compete in the same way that Wal-Mart competes with the local 5 and dime. My only point is that I simply do not believe the reason for a price increase (or what the price is to begin with) is the result of some nefarious plot. You may and that's fine. We can agree to disagree, no? All I'm saying is there are so many variables that I don't believe you can simply point to big oil and say "they're jacking the price".
Now, I guess they could have gone out and bought more fuel-efficient used cars, but that's easier said than done. Those two battlecruisers weren't worth their weight in scrap metal, so there was no resale value. And any used car they bought to replace them would have to be inspected. Sometimes it's easier, and safer, to just go along with what you know, than dumping it for an unknown that could become a money pit.
87 - $1.699, up 2 cents from 3/29
89 - $1.799, up 2 cents from 3/29
93 - $1.879, up 2 cents from 3/29
94 - $1.919, up 2 cents from 3/29
diesel - $1.579, unchanged since 3/12 at least
Diesel still $1.499 at the Mobil in Hackensack.
Mount Arlington Exxon, Mt A, NJ:
87 - $1.749
89 - $1.849
93 - $1.939
kcram
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I totally agree. You can argue the cost/benefit savings even say what you gain in fuel economy overrides the cost of the car, etc--but I can tell you from personal experience, sometimes it's easier coming up with an extra $5 than it is to come up with the money for a car...
$1.799 for regular 87, $1.899 for mid-grade, and $1.999 for premium.
I hope prices start to drop soon, but I'm afraid we will likely see $2.00 for regular by Memorial Day.
--18fan
You stated ,"Uh wait, never mind Wal-Mart tops the Fortune 500 list (ranked by revenue) and most likely out-profits all the others, too. But, profit's good if it helps me, right?" at the end of post 1561. Well I am here to tell you you are dead wrong. In this years Fortune rankings, Wal-Mart is number 1 in revenue, with around $260 billion, and profit of $9 billion on that revenue. Exxon was number 2 with revenue about $220 billion, and profit of $21.5 billion.
There is my exact point, Exxon earns a profit at over 2 times the rate Wal-Mart does.
Just wait till next year, I'll be willing to bet Exxon and the other oil companies all report record profits from this year's sales.
BTW, the prices just keep creeping, running around $1.91 for regular unl. here now.
As to prices in general, I keep hearing panicky news reports touting "record gas prices" or "record milk prices" and the like. Well, yeah, since when have prices NOT been at 'record highs' for almost anything? With the exception of electronics, I can't think of anything that costs less than it used to. Ten years ago, I probably could have bought a house in my neighborhood for $200k, now a tear down is worth $400-500k just for the lot, but I don't hear any news flashes about that. Which do you think has a greater impact on people's lives, their inability to pay huge mortgage payments or dropping an extra three bucks in the tank once or twice a week? Adjusted for inflation and salaries, gas is as cheap or cheaper than it's ever been.
Back on topic, gas is holding here at about $2.099-2.299, more or less the same as two weeks ago.
Was down in Doylestown over the weekend and on the trip (basically across the eastern half of PA) $1.759 for 87 seemed to be the standard low price. A couple of places were as high as $1.85 in Quakertown, but within 2 miles you could find less than $1.80.
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
The chat room opens 15 minutes before the scheduled chat time, so come early and get a good seat! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!
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PF Flyer
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