Acura Integra GSR Customizing and Modifying

only1harry · February 2002

Oh boy, you have a lot to learn

When pushing down on the suspension or shocks, they 're supposed to return (to the top) and stay there, not oscillate! You 're not supposed to see them go up and down. How do you know you have aftermarket shocks? and how do you know they can handle 300,350 or 400lb springs? Shocks are made for a specific spring rate when they 're non-adjustable. If you 're going to get custom spring rates, then you need adjustable shocks to match those rates. Plus adjustable shocks help tremendously with auto-xing because you can change the handling characteristics of the car where they 'll give the fastest lap times. I think you better find out what type of shocks you have on there. They 're probably stock. I tried pushing down on my brother's Type-R and the most I could get it down was maybe 1/2". GSRs & ITRs have stiff shocks to begin with and not much suspension travel. They 're not like your typical Civic, Corolla or American family car that you can push them down 4". I can push down on the front of my mom's Corolla down several inches with 1 hand with no problem. Can't do that with a stock GSR. You do have a GSR right? If so, they come with the front upper shock tower brace/bar (what you 're describing). 24mm front sway bar is also standard on the GSR (LS/GS have 22mm ones).

dinu01 · February 2002

Thanx for all your input. Harry's were like complete road-tests! Thanx again guys! I will definitely be back here to check on other responses and finally post what I bought mid-late May.

Dinu

garados · February 2002

Yes, I have a 1995 GSR sedan. It doesn't oscillate at all. I think I described the behavior wrong. As for the shocks, I didn't know that the stock GSR shocks were so stiff, so I retract my statement of having aftermarket shocks

Thanks for the help.

cjhannan · February 2002

I'm racing tomorrow at our region's first autocross of the year. It's called the "tune up" day b/c it's not a points event -- just a day for people to try out new stuff, changed stuff, and dust off their driving skills. It's been over 2 months since my last race so I'm more than ready to dodge the cones again. I'm hoping that I don't forget all I learned last year, and am looking forward to see how much I can close the gap on the class leaders. Should have nice weather down here, too - highs in the upper 50s. Wish me luck!

garados · February 2002

Good Luck!!

only1harry · February 2002

That's good. It's been exactly 3 mos for me and the earliest auto-x event here is on March 17th with the M-Club, another month away! What sucks is, that I can't buy anything, not even the DOT R tires that I need to race, because there's much uncertainty in my job with the outsourcing business. The execs and my VP have been working feverisly with 4 outsourcing vendors (there's been about 20 of them walking around for the last 4-5 weeks) to help them come up with their $$ #s and see if they can do it cheaper. They have the end of the month as a deadline to tell us if they 're going ahead with it or not, or if they are down to 2 finalists/vendors. Once they announce that they 're down to 2 from 4, then it's certain it's going to happen and I 'll probably start looking because I know they 'll bring in people with 1/2 the salary to try and get them to do the same job. So this is going to suck big time and I 'll probably be racing in STS with my current setup if I race at all. I 'll have to rely on my skill alone because there are many other cars with much better suspension setups than mine (Preludes, Civic Si, Celica GTS's, Subaru 2.5RS, etc. many of them with coilovers). But I don't think that would worry me as much as getting a new job if it comes down to that..

chem123 · February 2002

http://www.petitiononline.com/cel21/petition.html

cjhannan · February 2002

Well, I had a very good day yesterday at our Solo II event. I ended up winning STS (for the very first time). Granted, this was a non-points event so some of the usual STS big guns were missing, but I did manage to beat last year's STS champ by more than 1 sec. And I'm still in a state of disbelief So, what was different about this event? First, we were not at our usual Solo II lot (Turner Field); we competed at the Atlanta region's old site (Lakewood Amphitheater) which has really old asphalt and tons of pebbles and debris all over the place. Needless to say, good traction was a problem for most cars, especially the ones that ran in the a.m. groups. The course? Mostly open and fast - a typical Atlanta course - with only a few tight hairpin-type turns. It also had some good down hill sections, which really helped my torque-less wonder. My car? No change from last year. His car? Same, no changes. My driving? I didn't feel any better or worse a driver since the last event. But obviously, I was doing some things right. His driving? Well, that's the variable I can't figure out. Tony is not the kind of guy to sandbag an event (what purpose would that serve?) and I'm sure he drives to win just as all of us would. So what happened? Maybe he just had a bad day, as happens occasionally to all of us. But if I hadn't coned once on my last run, I would have beat him by over 2 secs. The guy who finished 2nd overall last year in STS (drives an Impreza RS 2.5) didn't compete b/c his car was in the shop. Having him there would have also helped me gauge what was going on because AWD on that course would have been very helpful. The only thing I did differently was to soften up my rear shocks and add more air to the rear tires to help my car rotate better and it made a slight noticeable improvement. Now that I think about it, I'm guessing that the cold weather (it definitely did NOT get in the upper 50's as predicted - it was sunny but cold and windy) helped neutralize his stickier street tires, and his Nissan 240 SX (RWD) had a hard time putting power to the ground on the slippery surface. Anyhow, I got me a first place trophy! Something I never thought I'd get so soon. And I'm enjoying it, too. Too bad for me this wasn't a points event

Now I'll have to prove this wasn't a fluke

only1harry · February 2002

Good job Casey! I bet softening up the rear shocks helped. I 'll bet anything that it did. If I have mine too firm in the back I can be 1 or more secs slower. As soon as I realize it and soften them up, I can be 1-2secs faster depending how big the course is and how it's setup. Softer shocks means faster transitions and better turn-in most of the time. I think you also said this was a faster course with not too many turns. You have the power advantage over the 240SX and should be faster on the straightaways. Sticker street tires (& R tires) don't do as well in cold weather as less stickier ones, so that probably helped too. I think you will also find that the RE730s will perform better this season than the last. They 're well broken in and should have less tread now which is good for dry traction.
Now, I 've said this before. I do better in certain courses than others. I can tell because people I normally do better than, would either beat me or be very close to my times. This is most likely YOUR type of course that you do well in and that your car behaves better in.
Out of all these factors I mentioned I believe the last one carries the most weight. The same goes with other cars. I 'll beat certain Miatas etc. in some courses, and in others, they kick my butt. The individual course and wether it benefits our car's power & suspension capabilities to the fullest, have a lot to do with it.

integraguy16 · February 2002

I need a new hood (mine's dented), and I want a cold-air intake with bypass-valve. I'm planning on getting a carbon fiber OEM style hood. What do ya'll think I should do first? I just installed my exhaust. Also, what is the best CAI for the money? Is the Arospeed front-mount-intercooler style anygood? Thanks.

cjhannan · February 2002

I agree and believe all of those variables you mentioned played some kind of role, small or large, in why I was faster on Sunday. The course was a ton of fun, and my car felt stronger than usual (probably due to the nice cold air). Whatever the reason(s), a win is a win in my book. The guy I beat, who is the STS champ from last year, was a real gentlemen about it, too. He came up to me after everything was over to say congrats and great driving. That's one of the great things about the Solo II crowd at the regional level, most folks really go out of their way to be helpful and courteous, and are pretty good sports, too.

only1harry · February 2002

My car always feels more powerful & responsive in the winter. The CAI sucks in real COLD air in the winter, and not 80-90deg warm air like in the summer time. Definitely better than 150deg. air that factory or warm intakes take in.
A win is a win, even if the guy was driving with 1 good eye. That's right. Show them how it's done! (that's what the announcer said over the speakers when I got FTD at the end of the morning runs at Rye Playland, a NYR SSCA sanctioned auto-x, and it felt great). Let it feel good and be proud. Kick those non-Acura/Honda cars' butts! :-)

only1harry · February 2002

I 'm not familiar with that intake you mentioned. The AEM is famous for the highest power & torque gains on Integras, especially VTEC ones.
Are you asking whether you should do the hood or the CAI first? Flip a coin.. I would 've done the exhaust last. The CAI would 've made your car noticeably more powerful. The exhaust gains you can only feel at high speeds and slightly at very high RPMs. The CAI is noticeable throughout the REV band.

only1harry · February 2002

best brake link I 've ever seen!! You have to read this.

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

I 've read many but this one seems to be the best so far.

It talks about a lot of the myths associated with warped rotors, their association with pads, facts about street pads, high end street/race pads, race pads, bedding them in properly, etc. A lot of it we know already but I learned some new things too. This guy goes into detail about how the pad & rotor work together and different variations of symbiosis between the 2 and failure scenarios. The guy who wrote this apparently worked for Shelby and did a long term brake study. Good stuff. Got it off the H-T competition forum.

I 'm glad he confirmed (and that it 's not a myth) that high end street/race pads with high heat limits don't grip as well when they 're cold. Now I know for sure my Axxis pads are more for racing than street because they 're not as good when cold. He also seems to favor carbon metallic pads (more recent) over semi-metallic ones for various technical reasons he discusses plus less chances of warpage. I think my MMs are semi-metalic (not 100% sure though), not sure about the Porterfield R4S that I may switch to this season (just to see if they 're better). The R4 I believe is carbon-metallic but a bit too much for street and I hear they don't grip for anything when cold or in cold weather so they tend to be a little dangerous. Like the guy says, there 's no such thing as a good all around street/race pad. There are pads that are good for street and low speed stopping and those that work best when hot or stopping from higher speeds.

chem123 · February 2002

Get the AEM CAI since you have a GS-R--it is definitely the most cost-effective thing you can do powerwise on your car. CF hoods are controversial because some people say brand X fits better than Y and then someone else will say the complete opposite. Unless you get a really cheap quality one, you should not be worried about it breaking. The worst things to worry about are fitment and making sure it doesn't fly up on the freeway because it wasn't closed correctly (get hood pins). Go to groupbuycenter.com for good prices on both of these things (coximport.com Ianmichael for the intake). Still, I would drive my car stock longer if I were you.

carcrazy2 · February 2002

What about COMPTECH Ice Box with Short Ram Intake. See Team-Integra.com (when the site is restored) for HP gains versus AEM CAI.

chem123 · February 2002

Sure, I've heard it's great...but integraguy16 only asked us what order he should get the stuff in so I didn't put much thought into what intake he should get. From what I have heard, people go with Comptech so they don't hydrolock their engines (something that can't happen with the Ice Box, but has a possibility of happening with the AEM--if you are an idiot) but I'm not sure which one gives you more power. However, the Box is more expensive. Lots of satisfied customers with both products.

cjhannan · February 2002

Harry, yes, that article was incredibly well done. I really like the way he dispelled a lot of the common mis-information about brakes, how they work, and brake failure. I'm going to file that baby away for future reference.

chem123 · February 2002

ditto on the great article...thanks Harry

garados · February 2002

that was a great article. Answered a bunch of my questions. Thanks

only1harry · February 2002

Hey Casey, and everyone else, if you see a good post on H-T again about camber & toe discussions by auto-x champs let us know. Dave Fauth did not answer my questions when I asked him what toe & camber he 's running up front. I 'm sure he 's gone over it before and just didn't want to bother. He used to say "it's a secret" but I think he 's revealed them to others.. I did a search but gave up too soon. Didn't have the patience

It 'll be interesting to see what happens when Dave goes up against Daddio in DSP this year with his new (used) RWD BMW 325is, that is if Daddio will stay in DSP with his Neon.

garados · February 2002

I'm going to get a custom exhaust made, and I was wondering if $80 was a good price for mandrel bent, aluminized steel piping and all associated welding. Also, 2.25 in is good enough for NA, right? and 2.5 in is good for top end, but the low end will suffer right? just making sure. Thanks.

zmp · February 2002

Hi everyone, I wanted to get your help and advice on solving a major problem I'm experiencing with a 1999 Acura Integra GSR I just bought a month ago. This car is a Certified Acura car, which means that it had to meet some standards before certification. A 150-point inspection must be done to the car prior certification. I bought my car in Jackonsville, two hours from Orlando, where I live. While driving to Orlando, I noticed some odd noises and vibrations in my car. My brakes need to be replaced, and the master cylinder is leaking (according to an inspection made by Acura in Orlando) just to name a couple of problems with the car. I have called the manager of the dealership in Jacksonville to let them know of the situation, and to get the money to fix the brakes, I also sent him a fax because he never answered my phone calls. It has been almost two weeks and I have not heard from him yet. I called Acura Client Services, but they said that they cannot do anything to help me, and that I had to talk to the manager of the store which I tried already.

I don't know what else to do, and I'm getting very frustrated and upset. Please let me know if you know a way to get out of this situation. Thank you so much

only1harry · February 2002

$80? sounds like a great deal!! Is that from the CAT back? or axle-back? What about a free flow muffler? You got the 2.25 & 2.5" right..

only1harry · February 2002

I recommend you keep calling the dealer's General Manager or the dealership owner. If I were you I 'd drive down there and talk to them and ask them why they 're not returning the calls. It is illegal for them not to fix your car or pay to have it fixed. By law most dealers have to warranty the car for 90 days. Just tell them you 'll take them to small claims court if they give trouble. Don't let them BS you. Make sure they understand that the trouble started on the first day when you picked up the car. They might want you to bring the car to them so they don't have to pay the other dealer. If the Master Cylinder is going, then it can be very dangerous to drive the car because the brakes can malfunction. Ask them to pay for a tow truck if they want to work on the car (I doubt they 'll do that).
It's funny you mentioned M/C. I had a Master Cylinder go bad on me too on my '99 GSR but I didn't know it. I just knew the brakes were working horribly and had to keep my distance from other cars. I was probably braking with only 2 wheels. Anyway, just keep bugging them and you can call the district attorney's office too in Jacksonville and speak to an Asst. DA and tell them what happened. They are violating state & county laws by refusing to fix your car. Does this car have over 50k mi? If not, then it's under warranty by Acura or until 2003. The Master Cylinder should be covered anyway. Not the brake pads or rotors. Good luck!

garados · February 2002

Yeah, it's a cat-back. Also got a straight through muffler by hayame. 2.5 inlet, 2.5 through, 4 inch tip. On this other guy's car, it sounded pretty good, and it's deep, not like a bumblebee fart.

chem123 · February 2002

Simply threaten to take them to a small claims court and that should do the trick. Good luck.

cjhannan · February 2002

Really sorry to hear about the problems with your GSR. Please tell us again what year it is and how many miles are on it. As Harry mentioned, I would be relentless and persistent about calling the dealership and trying to contact the GM or the owner. Those folks hate to be harassed by unhappy customers and usually ask someone to take care of your situation so they don't have to hear about it any more. But it could be a long process, unfortunately. Did the dealership you bought from have anything like a 30-day warranty from the date of purchase on your car? Even if you're over 50k miles, they would be obligated then to cover any needed repairs then. I feel for you, man...

zmp · February 2002

Wow! Thank you so much for your help and advice. Finally, last night I got a call from the Sales manager in Jacksonville, he said he was going to take care of the brakes, but that I had to drive again to J. to get them fixed, he said that Orlando was charging too much. I called Acura in Orlando, and I am going to tell you these guys have been great to me, they gave me a discount to save me the trip to Jacksonville, and they are also going to make an inspection to my car to make sure that everything else is all right. I'll let you know how it goes, and thanks again.

only1harry · February 2002

Didn't I say the Jacks. dealer would want you drive the car to them? They don't want to pay "retail" to have your car fixed. Anyway make sure they agree to pay the discounted price Orlando is charging. Looks like everything is working out now. There are good dealers out there and there will always be crappy ones. I have the same thing up here. 15-20mi. away is Fedder's Acura. They stink, they treat you like you own a Chevy Cavalier and they have a totally different tone of voice and attidute towards you than does Curry Acura where I bought the car which unfortunately is 50mi. away. These people at Curry would do anything so you 're happy. They don't want to see you leave mad or disappointed. They even wash your car after every visit

That's the difference between an Acura Precision Team dealer and a non-Precision dealer. BTW, if you look at acura.com, Florida has the most precision team dealerships than any other state! NY only has 1 compared to like 8-10 in FL!

cjhannan · February 2002

Harry, on your Neuspeed rear lower tie bar, how does this mount to the car? Do you have to remove the two main sway bar brackets to install, or can you leave them alone? The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking about getting a rear tie bar, but because of the way I mounted my sway bar, it would be a PITA to remove the brackets, so I'm wondering if I should even bother. Thanks.

only1harry · February 2002

didn't have to touch the sway bar or anything, but then again I have a Neuspeed sway so it may be mounted differently.
The Neuspeed tie bar is lower than the sway bar and goes on the subframe where the LCAs mount. You install it between the 2 LCA mounting points of the subframe. It was pretty easy to install but you might need a 2nd person to push the LCA arms back towards the subframe to line them up while you 're putting the bolts through. The Neuspeed tie bar comes with longer bolts (screws) and larger heavy duty washers.

chem123 · February 2002

http://mouton.best.vwh.net/sccasolo/Lists/2002/stprepm.html#Honda

cjhannan · February 2002

Thanks Harry. If you take a look at the Comptech lower rear tie bar on their website, it looks like their system is much more involved where the tie bar itself is overlayed on top of that part of the subframe so that the sway bar brackets get attached to part of the tie bar. Looks pretty good and solid, but it's not an option for me. Glad to hear other brands don't do it the same way. Does Neuspeed sell the lower tie bar in black? I really don't want a shiney [non-permissible content removed] bar hanging underneath my car!!!

integraguy16 · March 2002

worth it? I'm trying to justify $75 to my dad. My parents are letting me modify my car little by little (and I do mean little), as in, a small part every month, and a big part every 2 or three. I've already had my big part (exhaust), but my mom wants me to get my clear corner lights next. She wants to "see where her money's going."
My next "big" part is a CAI, probably next month, and after that my new hood or taillights. Oh, and would a CF hood with a vent/scoop + a short ram intake = a flat hood + a CAI? Thanks

garados · March 2002

The shortshifter is, imo, not that great of an upgrade because the stock shifter is short enough. All you need to do is get a different knob, and you'll get the same effect because the stock knob is freakin long. As for the shortram adn the scoop, my friend just cut out part of his hood right above the intake filter and it worked great. you just need to make sure that there will be airflow over the filter. Have fun!

cjhannan · March 2002

Check out the link below and let me know what y'all think. I happen to think the guy is full of it...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=137629

only1harry · March 2002

I got the black lower tie bar. $69.95 from shox.com. Silver is more.. That was the lowest price I could find. The black has "Neuspeed" written on it though with yellow letters. Anyone driving behind you can see it or read it if they 're close enough

only1harry · March 2002

That's great! I was right then

FSP is a good class for your Civic to be in. You 'll be going up against 8V Golfs mainly (new & old) and Escorts. Now the VWs have a huge aftermarket and the Escorts have plenty to choose from too. We have 1-2 FSP Escorts here that do well in that class. One of them is a station wagon! It's lowered at least 1.5" with springs, has adj. shocks, sway bar & R tires. They 're hard to beat if you 're on street tires. Once in a while we get an FSP Saturn (base model) and I was surprised when it took 1st place. Those early '90 Saturns are pretty light and with spring/shock/sway bar combo with R tires was very agile. I 'm surprised we don't see more of them.
Here we get mostly Golfs & Escorts in FSP, not too many Civics either. I think most Civic DX/LX owners just go overboard with mods and end up in SM or in a Prepared class. Sometimes an aero-kit or cross drilled rotors alone will bump you up to SM. You don't even have to have any real mods. One guy last year only had aftermarket calipers in his Audi A4 and raced in SM most of the season. What a shame. He was really stock and usually last in the class because he didn't stand a chance. Towards the end of the season I convinced him to get a chip and he finally did it. He dropped his times by about .75sec. Those chips really do give them a lot more torque & HP.. He was noticeably faster.

only1harry · March 2002

Yeah that guy is full of it. I gave him a little piece of my mind. Although he does have a point about true coilover kits vs. coilover sleeves, I have no doubt that if they did get broken GC or Skunk2 kits it was because of many years of road racing and lack of inspection. Under street, auto-x, and occasional road racing you 'd never get those to crack unless they were really old. You 'd have to be really stupid to regularly road race with coilover sleeves and not inspect them or take them apart every once in a while. I would do that with true coilover kits where the threads are on the shock, let alone sleeves. Frequent road racing requires a lot more maintenance & part replacement.

garados · March 2002

I have a question about these shocks. I have seen them with height adjustablility and I just wanted to know what these "perches" really are. What I'm trying to get at is, is it possible to lower or raise a car with just the shocks? The reason that I ask is because there are these springs that I have found that lower the car about 1.5 inches, but I want to keep the stock height. And also, what are the limits of these shocks, 400lbs/in 600 lbs/in?

cjhannan · March 2002

yes, you can lower the car by using the perch settings on the Konis, but I've been told you're better off lowering the car with springs, because you'll gain the advantage of getting stiffer spring rates over stock. Harry probably knows better the pros and cons about this, so I hope he weighs in here, too. Both front and rear Koni yellow are reported to handle a spring rate of up to 600#s, but that's really supposed to push the limit of these shocks, and that you'll likely need to rebuild them sooner than with a softer spring. I plan on swithing over to GC coilover with springs in the neighborhood of 400f and 450r, and the Koni's should handle that just fine. What spring rates are you thinking of?

garados · March 2002

I'm thinking of 300lbs-350lbs in front and 250-300 in back. I've heard one guy say 400lbs was the max, and then I heard 600 lbs was the max of the yellows. I just wanted to know the truth just to make sure the limit wasn't like 300lbs.

garados · March 2002

I'm confused. Are there two types of yellows? One with the height adjustable perches and one without? If this is true, what are the part numbers for each kind of shock for a 95 gsr? if not, then disregard this post. Thanks

only1harry · March 2002

No, there's only 1 Koni Yellow (Koni Sports) for our cars, and it has the height adjustability which is not recommended by many pro's because the springs would be compressed more at all times. This can cause the spring coils to touch more often. The disadvantages of that is that your ride will be rougher than usual and the springs will be more prone to cracking since they 'll be banging up against each other more often than they were designed to than if you if you just left them at their usual height. I heard that this also causes rapid "sagging", meaning the springs start losing their properties/spring rates and elasticity. You really don't want to go much lower than 1.5" anyway because after the springs settle, your drop will be 1.75" & probably more. The Konis I have (almost 2yrs old) have 3 spring perches. The bottom & top ones lower or raise the car (middle one is stock height) about .75-1" respectively. My springs were designed with a .75-1" drop. I didn't want to compress them further because of the problems that have been reported and I explained above.
Now I 've heard that Neuspeed sells Koni Yellows that have 5 height adjustments. They say these are custom made by Koni for Neuspeed. Not sure about that but those increments should be smaller than what I have but they also cost more than the regular Konis that you can shop around for. With Neuspeed, you probably only get 1 price, most likely list price.
Although many say the Konis are good for up to 600lb/in., I 've raced against a '95 GSR with 800F/650R rates on Koni Yellows. This guy also did a lot of roadracing (he kicked my butt in auto-x by .8s) but I don't know how long he had the Konis for. I asked him if they were revalved and he said no. Anyway they 'll handle the spring rates you 're considering which by the way are almost identical to the GC street kit. The GC street kit with Konis is very good for a daily driver and weekend auto-xing. This guy from the Philly region came to my club with his '00 GSR and beat me twice (the 2nd time around I matched his best time in the fun runs though, but it didn't count) with just the regular GC street kit & Comptech 22mm sway. I don't think his skill level was as good as mine but he still beat me because he had a better suspension. The GC street kit is probably the best way to go if you have an average commute and don't want the ride of 400+ spring rates. It's about 350F/275-300R.

cjhannan · March 2002

Harry, good explaination about using the perches. I knew there were some other reasons I'd heard about why it's not a good idea to lower the car that way, but it's been so long I couldn't remember. But, holy crap, 800 & 650 spring rates for off the shelf Koni yellows? Some how, I just don't think so... Not that I don't believe you, but I think that guy might be full of crap. I can't imagine that regular K yellows can hold up to those rates for very long. Wasn't it Dave Fauth who recently told us that his re-valved K yellows are 25-50% firmer than the standard issue ones? Seems to me you'd need to have your shocks matched more closely with spring rates that high...

only1harry · March 2002

I believe the ~600lb/in. rule for the Konis that we all go by, is an estimate and hear say.. Noone has ever said that Koni does not recommend using them with spring rates over 600lbs. This guy definitely had Koni Yellows because I could see them. Now whether they were revalved or not I don't know. He claims they weren't. He was running close to full firm in the front and full in the rear he said. This car had 8" (or 8.5") wide 14" rims sticking out of the fender and the rear didn't compress almost at all (wouldn't come near the tires). I 've mentioned this guy before because whenever I lose to someone I always post it here and discuss their mods. I guess you thought he had revalved Konis.
Now get this. In a NASA event I attended last year, there was a g5 Civic ('92-95) with 600F/475R GC coilovers. He was on Illumina shocks going on his 2nd season! Now it's possible one of these guys or both had leaking shocks and didn't realize it.. don't know, but that GSR handled nicely probably more because of its extra wide wheels & Hoosiers than the springs.
So I 'm not so sure about this 600lb/in. rule of thumb, but I guess everyone figures if you 're going to go that high or higher than 600, you 're taking racing seriously and revalving your shocks should go without saying..
Oh, I almost forgot. There was a guy on H-T last spring/summer, with 600F/800R spring rates on off the shelf Koni Yellows. He was complaining of too much oversteer. Don't remember what name he went by.

cjhannan · March 2002

There's a guy at H-T.com with a GSR and GC coilovers at 450F and 600R, and he regularly autocrosses and does track days with this car. He says oversteer is no problem anymore. In fact, he says he's got oversteer even under throttle, if you can imagine that! And that would take some getting used to... =:-o)

only1harry · March 2002

You have to learn how to drive the car all over again and take some time to get used to it when going with 30-35% higher rates in the rear. Such higher rates in the back are not good for the street though. Many have complained about that. You can easily forget and ease off the gas on a turn and have the tail come around. On the track you concentrate more and know what to do, like being on the gas throughout the turn or when the car is not in a straight line. On the street you drive more relaxed.
It happened to me when I first got the Konis. I was running them much firmer than I do now. I had them at least 1/2 turn up front and a full turn in the back or more because my first couple of events I kind of liked the tail come around and then slam the gas to straighten it out (until I realized this was hurting my times). The light turns green and the car in front of me makes a left and I follow. I hit the gas kind of hard at first and then realized I was going a bit too fast and would hit the car in front of me if I didn't slow down as I was turning. It was so embarassing. I eased off the gas a little and the tail came around (to the right) a foot or 2, and thank god I wasn't going too fast otherwise I would 've hit the curb. The car straightened out pretty fast mostly due to the low speed and me giving it some more gas. So I pulled over and dialed up the front another 1/4 turn or so and brought the rear down a little and the car was fine after that.. on the street anyway. Those soft springs we have in the rear just get overpowered by the shocks if they 're too firm, and hardly compress. I have pics where I 'm 3-wheeling (you 've seen it) with only 3/4 turn in the back (6-7 lines - 40% firm?) and the 'outside' rear tire was still not inside the fenderwell and actually almost 1" below it. The shock won't compress as easily when too firm, and won't let the spring compress either. The bigger rear sway bars we have also don't allow much flexing. The upgraded sway bar takes away most of the forces going to the outside (on a turn)spring & shock, and transfers very little of it. And that's when we get the fishtailing or the opposite when at WOT, the pushing effect, because the outside spring & shock don't compress as much thus keeping the car pretty linear/flat and the car slides sideways. Now when I dial down (or dial in softness as most say) the shocks in the back, it allows the springs to compress more and this translates to quicker turns for me where the car follows the direction of the turn easier and results in better & faster turn-in and quick transitions from side to side. Although I admit I 'm full on the gas with firmer shocks, the car usually stays nicely planted on a turn or sweeper, steering is slower to respond however, and when coming out of lets say a right turn, I need to make a gate on the left, it takes longer to point the car that way because the shocks are rebounding slower due to too much firmness. This causes the car to push/understeer in my case. And if after that I have a slalom to go through, forget it. The responsiveness is not there. Stiffness dominates and although it produces almost no body roll, the lightning fast left/right responsiveness (that I get with softer shock settings) is gone, resulting in me going slower through the slalom. This kills my times. A 3 or 4 cone slalom can hurt your times 1sec or more if not taken properly and with the right speed. We usually have 2 of those around here.
If and when I get high rate coilovers, I 'll have to experiment with higher Koni settings. I have no choice and have to at least match the higher spring rates with the proper dampening. I 'll have to adjust to all that all over again and I will experiment with even firmer Koni settings to at least emulate some of the other drivers in my area that race w/custom rate coilovers and Konis set at full firm. I 'll then evaluate what works best for me and produces the best times.
Again though, like I 've said before, I have found out that firmer settings work a little better at NASA, BMW & Porsche clubs that design their courses as mini road racing ones. While at SCCA clubs/chapters, I go softer on the Konis because of their tightness & slaloms that demand quick transitions and steering response. So I 've come to learn that to get the fastest times possible I have to always adjust the Konis according to how the course is designed. Sometimes I sacrifice the 1st & 2nd run to get the feel of the course and the car while adjusting the Konis.

cjhannan · March 2002

if we could go to some private course on non-race days to practice, practice, practice, along w/ tuning and testing various shock settings etc. so that we'd spend less time on race days to dial in the best settings. After all, seat time and experience count for sooooo much in autocrossing. Sure seems to me that all the compeitive drivers at the division and national levels are guys who aren't exactly new to the sport. We've got our first points race this Sunday and I'm already getting psyched! I'm buying a used Suspension techniques rear/upper strut tower bar from a friend for $30 and will be putting on the car on race day. I wonder if I'll notice any difference... Also need to get off my duff and order the lower rear tie bar I talked to you about earlier. I'm sure hoping that I can repeat my driving performance of a couple weeks ago. We're playing for real class points now through the end of Sept. So, gentlemen, start your engines!!

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