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Again, the whole point of these is to prevent the brakes from raining brake pad dust all over the wheels. Nothing is more disgusting than a disc-braked car with alloys covered in brake dust.
How do the 'black drums' as you call them affect the touted workings of the wheels and brakes? They don't. Not in the least.
The only thing you've lost is the ability to SEE them. Obviously to you and I'm sure to some others, seeing the rotor is going to be important. Me? Over time I'm not going to WANT to see the nasty, dirty, rusty rotor, caliper and suspension pieces.
If it were a Porsche or something of that caliber, no I wouldn't want the wheels covered. But this is a Mazda that's going to see the worst conditions that Ohio and Michigan Winters have to offer, and those pieces are going to get ugly while remaining functional.
If you like the concept and want a set - call Kleen Wheels. If you don't - don't.
Here's a link.
Why have "superior" four wheel discs and then compromise them?
http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/survey/brakes9.html
"Aftermarket Kleen Wheels Dust shields: They shut down the rounded Taurus' natural wheel well air flow. I had almost red-hot brakes after cruising down the highway with only this simple change. No dust, but...Severe brake fade. Even with CM pads. Nuff said."
So hey it's your car but why have the superior fade resistance of disc brakes for hard use but then apply Kleen Wheels which would possibly compromise them under hard use. Might as well have rear drums like the rest of the regular vehicles out there that seem to function just fine.
Vocus - An "I told you so."?!?! Nice.
If you're right and large amounts of dust indicate poor brake materials, I'd better tell the guys I've seen with the 3-series cars exhibiting exactly what I'm talking about. Or the Audi's or Jags I've seen. They're all getting inferior materials on their cars.
But like I said, believe what you want.
I have a nice 2 lane freeway off-ramp as part of my typical drive. It's a 180 degree turn followed by a long straightaway. I have had several opportunities to pass cars on the outside of that ramp and 6 goes into the best drift I have felt in any FWD car. The looks I get range from disgust to pure shock as I pass these other cars at +20mph. The tires squeal quite a bit, but the 6 stays in complete control. IMO, that's one of the best feelings that driving can offer.
ANYONE who drives can mash the gas pedal in a straight line. You, me and even my grandmother could do it. It is another thing entirely to have the stones and skill to stomach squealing tires and the ensuing drift of a 3,000 pound bullet mere feet from a guardrail.
rofl...good grief, Mario Andretti-lite get over yourself. The "stones" to make a car squeal on a corner...yeah that's a tough one, lol. Lets see you do that with a RWD car, oversteer threatening with just a bit more throttle. The 6 handles nicely but it's no Miata or RX.
Can't you like both equally? I had a 91 LX 5.0L Mustang notchback 5sp with around 300 hp and boat loads of torque (yes, it was modified). That car would terrorize 99% of the cars on the road in a straight line. Power induced oversteer was a touch of the pedal away. There is NOTHING like the sound of a rompin' stompin' American V8, especially a healthy Ford 5.0L. Was it fun? Hell yeah! Is my 130 hp Protege ES fun? Hell yeah!
No, of course not, it may not be a tough one for some people. But the fact remains, and my point since you appear to have missed it, is that compared to mashing the gas in a straight line, it most certainly DOES take more guts (stones, cojones - let me know what the BG approved word is) and skill to go around a 60mph corner at 80 with the car in protest.
I'd wholeheartedly disagree...it takes pretty much zero skill to negotiate a 60 mph posted on-ramp at 80 in a brand new so-called sport sedan. Tell me you're zipping through at 110+ I'll be impressed. 20 MPH over the limit in a car built in 2003? Nah. Those signs are posted for all cars...thus a guy in a 1967 Camaro can safely manage that corner at the posted limit.
Sorry you don't need to modulate your steering inputs, throttle or anything else in a 2003 FWD midsize sedan when taking a 60 mph corner at 80. Where exactly does the skill come into play? Press gas, turn wheel...that's it. The car will exhibit a bit of the usual FWD understeer but that's about it for exciting theatrics.
BTW, you're doing something wrong if your tires are squealing on a 60 mph posted ramp and you took it at 80. Sounds like you turned in too late...
This all got started 'cause MaltB drifted through a corner and enjoyed it on the way to work. I agreed with him and said I think it takes more guts to do that than trying to accelerate in a straight line. I wasn't talking about some 300hp+ RWD 'stang or Ferrari. We're talking about the 6 and cars for mortals.
You seem to have taken issue with the fact that you and I disagree. To quote you "Get over yourself." I can't remember a single thread where your opnion was anything but 180 degrees opposed to mine. However, I chose not to argue and attempt to belittle your postion (as you have with me) by letting you have your own opinion.
To the average Joe who wouldn't know what to do with a RWD car, the difference in necessary nerve is significant. 'Scuse me for talking to a group so far beneath you BG.
I was laughing at the bragging and the statement that it takes skill and "stones" to do something so simple...something one can do without fuss or bother in a 91 Honda Accord, let alone a brand new 2003 Mazda6.
Yeah fun comes in all shapes and sizes and I'm glad he's enjoying his car, but to insinuate that something so mundane requires moxie and driving skill is where I draw a line.
Maybe the kids so many people mock with their lowered Civics can teach some people in here a thing or two about how to really push a car to a point where skill and gumption come into play.
The 6 can do so much more...
BTW, sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention.
Finally I'll be able to see this car in person and make my own opinions.
Anyone else in Canada been for a test drive yet?
BG -
Fair enough. I completely agree - a '91 Accord could do it without issue. An old Chevette could probably pull it off.
What I'm talking about, and where I think the disconnect between you and I has been, is that I don't think the problem in this scenario lies with the car. It has everything to do with who's driving it and the nerve they possess.
To you and me, looking down at the speedo, seeing 80mph and taking a curve intended for 60mph won't illicit much of a response (perhaps a heavier foot?). Others will simply flip out and go for the brakes. They're liable to become concerned more so than say, rolling at 70 and planting the accelerator on the floorboard.
Gotcha.
Finally I'll be able to see this car in person and make my own opinions.
Anyone else in Canada been for a test drive yet?
fowler3
So how much snow do you have?
The South Shall Freeze Again!
The 6 will drift with a certain level of confidence, if you will, without understeering. This is a very rare gift, and all those who are arguing the merits of the this attribute must not understand it. Slightly drifting is the fastest way possible to negotiate a turn.
BTW, regarding speeds- the stock 16" wheels have gotten me through 20mph turns at 60mph, without drifting. I get nervous after that because of all the sand in the road.
Really, I think the handling aspects are so good, I don't see the need to argue them. Those that want to argue against the '6 just don't know how to drive aggressively. It's not just about better tires, it's about angles, feedback, and timing.
Squealing your tires is a lot easier than a four-wheel drift, and flooring any car takes zero skill.
I know the 6 is fun, but at the very least, wait until the road is clear of other traffic to do your antics.
The big difference between the 6i and the 2.5s is that the all Mazda6's have a sporty (though comfortable) suspension setup, whereas only the 3.5s Altima has the sporty suspension.
Actually, handling is such a strength of the '6, it bests the Altima in any trim. You won't get the torque steer or the understeer that can plague the Altima. Ride quality is very good also, but I won't comment further on that because it makes certain Accord owners here get defensive.
The 2.5 alty has better low end power but they cheaped out the suspension on that version vs the 3.5. In terms of handling and ride, the 6i kills the 4cyl alty (IMO).
1. 6s in Canada? I'm calling my dealer tomorow and see if they have any for test drive?
2. Don't hit refresh, just hit "Read Subscriptions" - you are double posting.
Dinu
I had to read all of these post before I made a comment. I believe this conversation started with Maltb talking about how nice it was to feel his 6 drift. From the sound of most of your conversation I feel like I'm in a forum with Evil Canival's family members. But I find myself agreeing with CDNP5's statement that mentioned, everybody has a different level of skills, as far myself I'm a novice by every sense of the word.
BUT, I love the feel of power that the Mazda 6 offers me. And the keyword here is ME! I would love to be able to take a curve at 20, 30, or 40 miles over the posted speed limit but there's something about dying that scares me to, well, you know. Besides when I'm driving with my wife if I even attempt to show her what the 6 can do, she'll be grabbing the dashboard and the overhead handle, stomping on her side of the floor (as if she had brakes over there), and turning colors to the point where I think it would be better to just drop her off at the morgue, that is if she doesn't kill me first (smile).
What I'm trying to say is this car is fun, fun, fun to drive. Most of the time when I hear your comments, I have no idea what you're talking about. But it sure does sound nice! I guess if I were to tell you some of my favorite moments you would call me a "wimp" to the third degree. So for those of you who have no mercy on people who don't have the skills you have, all I'm asking that you give me (and people like me) a chance to enjoy whatever feeling we choose to express in this forum. In other words, let's show a little respect to each other, and let's not be so critical.
On a positive note this forum is and has been a great place to get advice. And one of the best links I've received was from STRETCHSJE who posted this link on post # 6477, http://www.MazdaRevItUp.com/ . From what I can tell, Mazda is traveling to different parts of the county to teach people like me how to be a competent Mazda6 driver (then maybe I can get back here and talk your language). And who knows, they may be able to show some of the more experienced driving enthusiast in this forum a thing or two. But regardless of what happens with my new learned skills I'm willing to bet ANYONE, that my wife still won't let me drive like a Mazda maniac in rush hour traffic.
Zoom, zoom, zoom
Taken from an interview on RotaryNews: Mazda listens and responds, and I think it shows. The '6 is just about exactly the car I'd have built if I were designing a midsize (on a budget). Maybe they are reading this- give me RWD!
My previous car, a '99 Chrysler 300M was great at drifting. Don't laugh. 300M handles really well, especially when equipped with Performance Handling Group package (mine was). I used to take curves at high speed all the time.
I appreciate that Mazda6 drifts well too.
P.S. it can be dangerous to get used to taking corners at high speed. If conditions are not perfect and/or tires are not new anymore, you could get in real trouble. I almost did once, my 300M almost did a 360 because the road was a little wet and tires were getting old.