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My girlfriend drove a 6s manual this weekend and was really impressed. She is just worried about reliability. I know it is new, but for any of you who have actually bought one, any problems so far?? Any comments to her about reliability?
I own a Protege5 and a Miata and love both of them. The other car she is looking at is a Lexus IS300. I told her why pay more for basically the same equipment level and warranty period. Only difference is FWD vs. RWD. She's currently driving a Audi A4 and has had quite a few problems with it and the dealer. Thankfully, I was able to sell my A4!!!
Could someone please define Drift Oversteer Understeer.
Last night I had the 6s AT on an extended 100 mile drive. With 4 adults in the car and using the sport shift I took an inviting donut on-ramp for some fun. I was accelerating up it quite well and the tires were holding a perfect line without squeeling. As I approached the much slower old "muscle" car ahead of me and let off the accelerator the tires bit hard and started to turn me even tighter. What did I experience here? (besides some adrenaline)
My girlfriend drove a 6s manual this weekend and was really impressed. She is just worried about reliability. I know it is new, but for any of you who have actually bought one, any problems so far?? Any comments to her about reliability?
I own a Protege5 and a Miata and love both of them. The other car she is looking at is a Lexus IS300. I told her why pay more for basically the same equipment level and warranty period. Only difference is FWD vs. RWD. She's currently driving a Audi A4 and has had quite a few problems with it and the dealer. Thankfully, I was able to sell my A4!!!
I've had that same experience on on-ramps a few times myself. Another thing that happened the other day was I found myself in the left lane closer to my exit than I expected. I passed two cars at 70, crossed 2 lanes, all around a slight bend in the interstate. It was pretty sweet.
Oversteer is when the rear wheels are carving a larger arc than the front wheels. This is often described as a "loose" condition, as the car feels like it may swap ends, or put more simply - the back end slides out.
Understeer is when the front wheels are carving a larger arc than the rear wheels. This is often described as "push" or "pushing" - as the front end feels like it is plowing off of a corner.
Further acceleration only compounds the push, as weight shifts back to the rear wheels and off of the front wheels, leading to a further lessening of the car's ability to turn in.
A drift is set up essentially when you're doing both at the same time. One way to achieve this is by oversteering while slowing a bit in the early stage of cornering. As the rear wheels start to slide outward and the front end heads towards the inside of the corner, you neutralize the steering (as in center the wheel) and add power. The car will take the corner with all four wheels sliding. Not for the faint of heart.
No serious problems with the actual car and driving. For some reason, my 6 has some computer problem that Mazda recognizes but doesn't know how to fix. It turns on the 'check engine' light once every 2 weeks or so. They tell me there's nothing wrong with the car (and this first happened more than a month ago and I haven't noticed anything either). BTW, it took about a month of my owning it for the light to come on the first time.
I just have to drive out of my way to the dealer once in a while to have them make sure the light isn't telling me something more serious and have them clear the light out. They said Mazda's working on it and will have a fix "soon."
That's the only trouble I've had with the car. As I said, though, it's nothing serious and doesn't affect my driving.
Be careful with the throttle when you are pushing a car. As ruefus's excellent definitions/examples state, the throttle can make all the difference in where you end up.
malt - I posted this question earlier for you and stretch, but I guess everyone got so excited about driving techniques it got ignored. Anyways, I'm still debating the 6i vs 6s question. I have read that the 6s does not have the same handling dynamics as the 6i. And, since the car was really designed for the 4-cyl engine (1.8L, 2.0L or 2.3L), I suspect that it just isn't the same car with the V6. I guess I'm looking for input as far as how much the extra weight affects the handling. If it affects it a lot, then I guess I'll pass on the V6. I haven't driven the 6s-MT yet, but I was very impressed with the 6i-MT. Any thoughts?
sorry, I saw it but I don't have enough time behind the wheel of a 6s to know. I'll try to get a chance to drive one hard in the next few weeks but finding an M/T without someone behind the wheel can be tough.
I like the sound the V6 engine makes, but like Malt, haven't been able to push it around at its limits the way I have with my own. The car seems perfectly balanced with the 4cyl engine- sometimes even oversteering- which is almost unheard of in a front wheel drive car, and adding more weight to the front would almost certainly upset that.
If you read all the posts here, there are a few people who have taken both out, and the concensus is that the 4cyl handles much better, even as good as the V6 is. The discussion here about the car drifting and being tossable applies mostly to the 4cyl equipped cars.
Besides, the 4cyl engine is incredible after a thousand miles on the odometer, right malt? And 30mpg city- I still can't believe that!
I do almost exclusively city driving, and the factory tires fight for grip all the way through 2nd gear which takes me up to 60mph. That suits me well because I rarely get to go that fast in the city, so more power isn't necessary.
On the highway, it doesn't seem powerful, but 3rd gear extends to nearly 90mph. I've haven't quite carried the car that far in 3rd gear yet, but getting to 80mph came pretty quickly and still had lots of oomph at speed.
To those who don't like to shift, now, it's a different story. You won't get much in 5th gear.
So it all depends on how much work you like to do when you drive.
The '6 doesn't have what it takes to compete with the CamCords. Technologically, Ford/Mazda doesn't have what it takes to compete with the likes of Toyota and Honda. Their sales have proven time and again that their products are second rate. For example, their flagship 220hp V6 is lagging behind the competition, which makes it outright unsafe to merge on the highway with so little power. Though, I guess it's for the better- without standard ABS, the car is just asking for trouble.
During my test drive of the '6, I found the drive engaging- so much so that I was unable to talk on my cell phone. Not that I wanted to, because the lack of dual climate control made me dizzy- the three dials made it much too complex to turn off the heater. The car didn't ride as well as the Accord, which has a much softer and luxuriously floaty ride. I was able to feel the car communicate bumps, and the steering was much too quick. That could cause an accident. When I hit the brakes, the brakes were so firm that I was almost rear-ended. With Ford engineering, I'd hate to see this car after a wreck.
I saw another '6 squealing its tires around a turn, all four wheels drifting as if the car was sliding and had lost its grip. The driver seemed to be having fun- what kind of sick people drive these Mazdas? It must be the lack of anti-lock brakes, because I know that's never happened in my Camry, which has out-handled a Mustang before.
All-in-all, I was very disappointed in the '6. The V6 is missing modern advancements that come standard on other cars, such as an automatic transmission. The engine has a tendency to produce a throaty roar that succeeded only in making me miss important instructions from my self-help audio tapes. I only saw four cup holders up front, which won't cut it for my normal commute. I was so upset after my drive that I didn't even look at the trunk, but seeing as the car looks like a miniature Millienia, I'm sure the trunk isn't useful for groceries, let alone family trips.
As I got back in my Accord to drive home, I realized how numb the steering and suspension was, and I was finally able to concentrate on other things while driving. Thank goodness, thinking about driving while on the road gives me a frightful headache.
They're a little off. 2nd redlines at 57-58mph but can be taken to 60. 1st gear is so quick that it's hard to tell, and I've never taken 3rd to redline. I've tested the speedometer of the '6, it's perfectly accurate.
I hope everyone understands my previous post is just a joke. I bought a '6 after all, sheesh.
Really, I'm worried this thread will slow now that these arguements have been beaten to death. They don't have the longevity of the "I hate SUVs" thread. Two days ago, there were only a handful of posts the entire day. I know, I know, just one day this thread is out of the the "Hot Threads" list here on Edmunds and I panic. I rely on this thread for amusement at work, people, keep posting!
There's a lot in development. Greddy and DuratecPerformance are making turbochargers for the 4 (280hp+ easily), there are several lowering springs out, and lots of intake/exhaust/headers in development. There are some bodykits in Japan already available.
The car is new, so not a lot is out, but a whole slew of stuff is being developed. There's no question the 4cyl engine is going to be the one to mod. It's an amazing engine (so say the aftermarket producers), and there isn't enough room under the hood with the V6.
Sarcasm on the internet or in print is often difficult to see. Stretchsje, don't be surprised if your post gets quoted seriously in ads, by people whose point of view IS the same as your 'joke' post, or by people who just didn't get 'it.'
Also, be aware that some come here and read only a post or two and leave. Some may read that post and decide to buy an Accord or Camry. Of course, if they do that, they probably were going to anyway, and you did them a service by confirming what they already knew. (Then again, why would they be here at all if that were the case?)
for the humor! I "got it" and was laughing. The 6 board is definitely one of those that I want to read, hoping to discuss the car itself... but too often I read about the same old same old... and from the SAME people - over and over again.
Good to see a sense of humor, even though I was involved in the 'fun' yesterday.
I'd be careful about chasing HP - (and yes, I know this is something of an old argument), but when you start adding HP, the concern becomes where the engine makes it. If it's way up near redline - who really cares? You've got to literally strangle the motor and run close to the rev limiter to get at it. Reliability then becomes an issue.
If it's down low, fabulous. But for the most part, that's unlikely. A lot of times when power is added, it pushes the overall power curve higher up into the rev range. At low, in-town speeds, the car becomes an absolute pig. Peaky is the word I guess - shrinking powerband. Looks great on paper and during bench-racing, but isn't terribly useful on the street.
Thanks for the speed info. I suspect the calculated numbers are higher because the tire aspect ratio isn't precise, and also because the calculated diameter doesn't take into account the fact that the tire "squishes" a little due to the weight of the vehicle and decreases the effective diameter.
What? Me? Whoa. Wwwwait a minute. Not two days in a row.
So my motorcycle heritage shines through. Ok, I admit it. Peaky engines with tiny power curves up near redline on bikes (or cars) suck.
The point was this - adding HP to the stock engine may result in more power, but packaged in a smaller power band that begins farther up the rev range.
I never said peaky engines were bad, but the transmission is geared to take advantage of the stock motor. Start pushing the power around the tach and you may not like what you end up with. The end result may not be as much fun as the original.
I totally agree with your review. I wish Mazda hadn't changed a thing from the previous 626. That car was friggin gorgeous and oh, such a pleasure to drive. After all, it's not often that you get to drive a stick shift that feels like a Mack truck in a passenger car.
One thing that really annoyed me was that I saw a guy in a 6 pulling a trailer with a couple dirt bikes on it. Doesn't that idiot know that to pull anything you need an SUV (the patriotic kind)? I bet the joker got like 25 mpg on his trip too. This doesn't bode well for supporting an invasion into Iraq.
The engine light was on in my overnighter too. Our dealership is one of 20 Nationally called a QMD or Quality Monitoring Dealer. We get the first fixes on these problems as we are part of the national team to resolve the issues with our Master Technicians. Perhaps your store will be getting this info from Mazda soon.
ANYWAY the engine light is on because it has recognized a change in vacuum pressure in your system causing you to be less efficient in your emissions. This is due to a small plastic clip (or ending) on one of the vacuum hoses (I think it is near the firewall) that has broken making the connection loose. This didn't change the way the car ran for me at all (even when pushing it a little).
One of those silly little things you get with new suppliers and new products.
Mazdamarla - the sport package also includes the fog lights, black interior and the optitron (?) back light gauges which are always red lights on a black background instead of red on an silvery-white.
I understand the reason my tires bit hard with the weight transfere back to the front. I was more curious as to what the technical term was for it.
I don't know the terms but I can handle the car. Besides always having a love for driving (especially if the wind is in my hair) I have even had a little training in spins and corrections, driving lines etc before taking the afternoon in a Formula4 car at Laguna Seca.
I posted the 4th fastest time of 16 men and 4 women (and remember I am one of the later) and am the only one of those four that never tasted dirt during the day (of course I broke loose once but that just ads the beauty of learning where the limits are). Given more time behind the wheel, the finess would have beaten the testosterone laden men, ,who were out for pure power (who pushed much harder than their skills)
What does this have to do with the 6? Everything. That is why I love the 6. Those who want pure power (not to imply that is you maltb) can buy another car that will make them happy. For me, Power and 2 way Communication between car and driver, makes us one. While driving... I am Mazda6...hear me roar;)
I don't know if this got covered or not...since the 6 board is so popular!!!
but...a new package will be available starting with Feb allocation.. which means it will be in the showrroms for May.
1AP...Appearance Package which will be avail on the 'S' and 'i' models. It includes front air dam, side sill extentions, rear skirt and exhaust tips....(not avail with sport pkg & mud guards) MSRP $900
I just check out their website/build your own, and they've now added stand-alone options for Fog Lights and Sport Grille. Also have a separate Appearance Package with some of the components from the Sport Package, but not all.
Hopefully they'll keep tweaking and make the Power Moonroof and Spoiler stand-alones, too. And do it for the Hatchback, also.
Would also like to have GRAY interior, not black. But you have to have black if you get the Sport package. I want gray!
Keep emailing Mazda to let them know what you want! MUSA@mazdausa.com
Loved your posts. I guess since the 6 is such a big step down from the 626, it's not going to sell nearly as well. And don't get me started on the depreciation...lol
>> For example, their flagship 220hp V6 is lagging behind the competition, which makes it outright unsafe to merge on the highway with so little power. <<<
Thanks for the info doying. I'll print that out and take a copy to my dealer when I go in next time. Hopefully that'll be enough for them to figure out what the deal is and stop the annoying light.
1AP...Appearance Package which will be avail on the 'S' and 'i' models. It includes front air dam, side sill extentions, rear skirt and exhaust tips....(not avail with sport pkg & mud guards) MSRP $900
Good to read that they're listening to the small bunch of us who don't want a spoiler.
Now if only they'd release an MPS we'd be in business. A thicker rear swaybar (to make the car oversteer or at least neutral) would be nice too but that's a simple aftermarket mod.
I understand the reason my tires bit hard with the weight transfere back to the front. I was more curious as to what the technical term was for it.
What you described was textbook understeer. If you let off the throttle too abruptly, the rear of the car can swing around as the fronts gain traction and the rear unloads. I spun doing exactly that in a FWD car on my first track day.
Comments
I own a Protege5 and a Miata and love both of them. The other car she is looking at is a Lexus IS300. I told her why pay more for basically the same equipment level and warranty period. Only difference is FWD vs. RWD. She's currently driving a Audi A4 and has had quite a few problems with it and the dealer. Thankfully, I was able to sell my A4!!!
Drift
Oversteer
Understeer.
Last night I had the 6s AT on an extended 100 mile drive. With 4 adults in the car and using the sport shift I took an inviting donut on-ramp for some fun. I was accelerating up it quite well and the tires were holding a perfect line without squeeling. As I approached the much slower old "muscle" car ahead of me and let off the accelerator the tires bit hard and started to turn me even tighter. What did I experience here? (besides some adrenaline)
I own a Protege5 and a Miata and love both of them. The other car she is looking at is a Lexus IS300. I told her why pay more for basically the same equipment level and warranty period. Only difference is FWD vs. RWD. She's currently driving a Audi A4 and has had quite a few problems with it and the dealer. Thankfully, I was able to sell my A4!!!
Understeer is when the front wheels are carving a larger arc than the rear wheels. This is often described as "push" or "pushing" - as the front end feels like it is plowing off of a corner.
Further acceleration only compounds the push, as weight shifts back to the rear wheels and off of the front wheels, leading to a further lessening of the car's ability to turn in.
A drift is set up essentially when you're doing both at the same time. One way to achieve this is by oversteering while slowing a bit in the early stage of cornering. As the rear wheels start to slide outward and the front end heads towards the inside of the corner, you neutralize the steering (as in center the wheel) and add power. The car will take the corner with all four wheels sliding. Not for the faint of heart.
I just have to drive out of my way to the dealer once in a while to have them make sure the light isn't telling me something more serious and have them clear the light out. They said Mazda's working on it and will have a fix "soon."
That's the only trouble I've had with the car. As I said, though, it's nothing serious and doesn't affect my driving.
Oversteer - On top of the cow.
Understeer - Under the cow (of course).
Drift - What snow does in the winter.
Maybe I aught to post this type of sh...stuff in the Accord or Jetta topics. Ok by you Pat?
If you read all the posts here, there are a few people who have taken both out, and the concensus is that the 4cyl handles much better, even as good as the V6 is. The discussion here about the car drifting and being tossable applies mostly to the 4cyl equipped cars.
Besides, the 4cyl engine is incredible after a thousand miles on the odometer, right malt? And 30mpg city- I still can't believe that!
Now back to our regularly scheduled flames...
On the highway, it doesn't seem powerful, but 3rd gear extends to nearly 90mph. I've haven't quite carried the car that far in 3rd gear yet, but getting to 80mph came pretty quickly and still had lots of oomph at speed.
To those who don't like to shift, now, it's a different story. You won't get much in 5th gear.
So it all depends on how much work you like to do when you drive.
Now can we debate disc vs. drum brakes again? Or maybe sales totals? How about dual climate controls? LOL
During my test drive of the '6, I found the drive engaging- so much so that I was unable to talk on my cell phone. Not that I wanted to, because the lack of dual climate control made me dizzy- the three dials made it much too complex to turn off the heater. The car didn't ride as well as the Accord, which has a much softer and luxuriously floaty ride. I was able to feel the car communicate bumps, and the steering was much too quick. That could cause an accident. When I hit the brakes, the brakes were so firm that I was almost rear-ended. With Ford engineering, I'd hate to see this car after a wreck.
I saw another '6 squealing its tires around a turn, all four wheels drifting as if the car was sliding and had lost its grip. The driver seemed to be having fun- what kind of sick people drive these Mazdas? It must be the lack of anti-lock brakes, because I know that's never happened in my Camry, which has out-handled a Mustang before.
All-in-all, I was very disappointed in the '6. The V6 is missing modern advancements that come standard on other cars, such as an automatic transmission. The engine has a tendency to produce a throaty roar that succeeded only in making me miss important instructions from my self-help audio tapes. I only saw four cup holders up front, which won't cut it for my normal commute. I was so upset after my drive that I didn't even look at the trunk, but seeing as the car looks like a miniature Millienia, I'm sure the trunk isn't useful for groceries, let alone family trips.
As I got back in my Accord to drive home, I realized how numb the steering and suspension was, and I was finally able to concentrate on other things while driving. Thank goodness, thinking about driving while on the road gives me a frightful headache.
I hope everyone understands my previous post is just a joke. I bought a '6 after all, sheesh.
Really, I'm worried this thread will slow now that these arguements have been beaten to death. They don't have the longevity of the "I hate SUVs" thread. Two days ago, there were only a handful of posts the entire day. I know, I know, just one day this thread is out of the the "Hot Threads" list here on Edmunds and I panic. I rely on this thread for amusement at work, people, keep posting!
anyone see any performance mods available for the 6 yet? Anything that can squeeze out another 30hp?
The car is new, so not a lot is out, but a whole slew of stuff is being developed. There's no question the 4cyl engine is going to be the one to mod. It's an amazing engine (so say the aftermarket producers), and there isn't enough room under the hood with the V6.
http://www.duratecperformance.com has a lot of stuff in development for both engines, and says 30hp should be easy to attain.
Also, be aware that some come here and read only a post or two and leave. Some may read that post and decide to buy an Accord or Camry. Of course, if they do that, they probably were going to anyway, and you did them a service by confirming what they already knew. (Then again, why would they be here at all if that were the case?)
Thanks for the lightening it up!
Other than APPEARANCE, what will the differences be?
I'd be careful about chasing HP - (and yes, I know this is something of an old argument), but when you start adding HP, the concern becomes where the engine makes it. If it's way up near redline - who really cares? You've got to literally strangle the motor and run close to the rev limiter to get at it. Reliability then becomes an issue.
If it's down low, fabulous. But for the most part, that's unlikely. A lot of times when power is added, it pushes the overall power curve higher up into the rev range. At low, in-town speeds, the car becomes an absolute pig. Peaky is the word I guess - shrinking powerband. Looks great on paper and during bench-racing, but isn't terribly useful on the street.
Oh, and I loved the "review".
a) What is less torque steer?
b) What is a more fun and rewarding drive?
c) What is more driver interaction and shifting?
d) all of the above
Don't forget to buzz in before engaging in the debate reufus has chosen :-)
So my motorcycle heritage shines through. Ok, I admit it. Peaky engines with tiny power curves up near redline on bikes (or cars) suck.
The point was this - adding HP to the stock engine may result in more power, but packaged in a smaller power band that begins farther up the rev range.
I never said peaky engines were bad, but the transmission is geared to take advantage of the stock motor. Start pushing the power around the tach and you may not like what you end up with. The end result may not be as much fun as the original.
One thing that really annoyed me was that I saw a guy in a 6 pulling a trailer with a couple dirt bikes on it. Doesn't that idiot know that to pull anything you need an SUV (the patriotic kind)? I bet the joker got like 25 mpg on his trip too. This doesn't bode well for supporting an invasion into Iraq.
ANYWAY the engine light is on because it has recognized a change in vacuum pressure in your system causing you to be less efficient in your emissions. This is due to a small plastic clip (or ending) on one of the vacuum hoses (I think it is near the firewall) that has broken making the connection loose. This didn't change the way the car ran for me at all (even when pushing it a little).
One of those silly little things you get with new suppliers and new products.
I don't know the terms but I can handle the car. Besides always having a love for driving (especially if the wind is in my hair) I have even had a little training in spins and corrections, driving lines etc before taking the afternoon in a Formula4 car at Laguna Seca.
I posted the 4th fastest time of 16 men and 4 women (and remember I am one of the later) and am the only one of those four that never tasted dirt during the day (of course I broke loose once but that just ads the beauty of learning where the limits are). Given more time behind the wheel, the finess would have beaten the testosterone laden men, ,who were out for pure power (who pushed much harder than their skills)
What does this have to do with the 6? Everything. That is why I love the 6. Those who want pure power (not to imply that is you maltb) can buy another car that will make them happy. For me, Power and 2 way Communication between car and driver, makes us one.
While driving... I am Mazda6...hear me roar;)
but...a new package will be available starting with Feb allocation.. which means it will be in the showrroms for May.
1AP...Appearance Package which will be avail on the 'S' and 'i' models. It includes front air dam, side sill extentions, rear skirt and exhaust tips....(not avail with sport pkg & mud guards) MSRP $900
Hopefully they'll keep tweaking and make the Power Moonroof and Spoiler stand-alones, too. And do it for the Hatchback, also.
Would also like to have GRAY interior, not black. But you have to have black if you get the Sport package.
Keep emailing Mazda to let them know what you want! MUSA@mazdausa.com
/WebX?ed_displayMakeModelRelatedD- iscussions@@.ee92044!make=Mazda&model=6
LOL...ROFL...FOCROFL........
great going.....and was that original?
Good to read that they're listening to the small bunch of us who don't want a spoiler.
Now if only they'd release an MPS we'd be in business. A thicker rear swaybar (to make the car oversteer or at least neutral) would be nice too but that's a simple aftermarket mod.
It's not selling well yet. So don't speak too soon.
What you described was textbook understeer. If you let off the throttle too abruptly, the rear of the car can swing around as the fronts gain traction and the rear unloads. I spun doing exactly that in a FWD car on my first track day.