Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

garandman · February 2005

I have a 97 Outback. The plastic covers on the headlamps have, over the years, become crazed and faded. Has anyone had any experience getting rid of this fading? I understand it is from the heat of the headlamps over time. I also understand that you can buy a solution at Pep Boys, etc...that will rejuvinate the plastic.

Check out the ultimate Subaru website. There are several threads there on this topic. 400 grit wet sandpaper will clean them up, but they often yellow again. There are coatings that can be sprayed on them to delay this. You can buy new ones for about $125 a side from several online suppliers.

There are a lot more folks there who have owned multiple Subarus and done a lot of work on them.

jp68 · February 2005

My security light is repeatedly blinking twice whenever the car is off and I haven't even locked it/set the alarm. Plus when I do lock it, the park lights don't flash anymore. What is it tryig to tell me and how can fix it?

hypov · February 2005

Your alarm is in valet mode.

I can't remember how to deactivate the valet...

it wouldn't be wise for me to reveal either, but the info is available in your manual

-Dave

zman3 · February 2005

On my 98 Outback I think you simply push the light in and out to toggle valet mode on and off. Disclaimer: I have never used valet mode so I am not 100% certain of this.

terumi1 · February 2005

Thanks for the informative responses. I'll let you know what I come up with. I don't think I am going to go the route of replacing them. Because, at least, on talking to the Subaru dealership, you have to replace the whole assembly...headlamp and all. Not just the covers. Maybe, garandman, you could post the online suppliers? I looked briefly but didn't find any.

Also, I am a little hesitant to spend $125 x 2 for a 1997 car. I could see spending $50 x 2. So lets see..........

Maybe the combination of the 400 grit wet sand paper and the solution that the dealer talked about would work.

I have owned the car since new and intend on keeping it for at least another 5 years.

xwesx · February 2005

Yeah, @ that price, I agree that a replacement is not the preferrable option. Both of the light assembly brackets are broken on the top of my driver's side headlight and have been for years, but I won't replace the assembly because of the cost and the fact that the bracket is cheap plastic that will likely just break again. Bad design choice.

Good luck w/ the cleaning and let us know how it turns out! Is your alternator still behaving?

garandman · February 2005

There was a running change on the design of the assembly.

Don't remember who you buy the lights from, ulitmatesubaru.net is where I got the information. I just polished mine.

xwesx · February 2005

There was a running change on the design of the assembly.

Will you please elaborate slightly?

gerard5 · February 2005

My '01 Outback S/W had both head gaskets replaced last week. The car has 25K on it. The work was done under warranty but still, two head gaskets at 25K miles? I saw drops of antifreeze coming out of the tailpipe the previous week. Had the check engine light come on a few days later. Took it in for service and the head gaskets had to be replaced. The check engine light was unrelated to the gaskets. Okay all you odd subaru owners out there, am I alone or have a few of y'all had similar experiences? It's a 2.5 w/mt. I had a new clutch put in last year. My service guy found a TSB on the clutch so no out-of-pocket money on that one either.

ateixeira · February 2005

The lamps on our old Mirage got like that, in fact they became a rusty brown.

I took them apart and literally washed the internals with a detergent. What I could not reach I just let soak, and shook water inside. Got most of it out, not all.

Didn't keep the car much longer so I can't say what the long-term effects were, but it looked good enough that I sold the car.

-juice

saywhat · February 2005

I have a 05 Leg. turbo with the free maintenance coupons. The first coupon is for a oil and filter change at 7,500 miles. Yet the dealer-ship is telling me I should change the oil at 3,000 miles. I live in Rhode Island, and we are having the usual cold weather and snow. I E-Mailed Subaru, and they said I could change the oil at 3,000 miles, or wait till 7,500 miles, depending on the driving conditions. What does that mean? It sounds like Shucking and Jiving to me. Am I missing something? (Is this because they didn't want to go against what the dealership said?) Any knowledgeable comments will be greatly appreciated!!

kens · February 2005

Subaru's recommended change interval of 7500 miles is under ideal conditions (if you read the fine print). If you drive short distances or in dusty environments, for example, you probably need to change sooner than 7500 miles.

There's probably less harm to be done by changing sooner than later. When in doubt, give your car a fresh supply of oil.

Also, some folks like to make their first oil change early. The thinking goes that because the engine is still breaking in, the oil becomes contaimated sooner.

In my case, I changed at 1000 and then 3000 before going to the regular intervals.

Ken

sduford · February 2005

My dealer not only insisted that I change the oil at 1000 miles, but they even paid for it! It is their own policy, designed to make sure people do come in at 1000.

Sly

ateixeira · February 2005

They want to get you used to going, so later on you keep going. :-)

Still, that's nice they offer the service.

-juice

c_hunter · February 2005

Most Subarus call for the first change at 3000 miles, but the 2.5 turbo motor calls for the first change at 7500 miles. They all have regular intervals of 7500 under the normal service schedule. For severe service, they call for more frequent changes.

Forget what the dealer is telling you -- the owner's manual gives all the details and you can educate yourself on the whole thing rather than listen to the dealer.

In my experience, the dealers try to get you in for much more service than necessary. Personally, I stick to the book.

Craig

fibber2 · February 2005

Gerard,

Wow, less mileage than I have: '02 OBW w/28k...

As you have probably seen from a scroll thru these boards, head gaskets are indeed a weak spot on the 2.5L engine. My drivers side began leaking and was replaced in '03 at 15k miles.

Many owners of '00-'02's received a letter last year advising them to visit their dealer for a coolant sealer additive that is supposed to alleviate the problem of scrubbing that occurs between the block/gasket/head. I am a bit surprised that they needed to replace both (90%+ seem to leak at the #4 cyl - drivers side rear), but maybe starting off fresh with new gaskets is for the best.

So no, you are not alone, but SOA seems to be taking care of customer issues reasonably well.

Steve

stantont · February 2005

I wonder if manufacturers want the oil left there to speed up break-in? My Honda Accord recommended oil changes at 7500 miles for "normal" service and 3750 for "severe", but specifically stated the original oil should be left in for 7500 miles no matter what kind of service. I wonder if they were using the bits and pieces of metal as a "lapping compound" to break the engine in. Hondas are known to be built pretty tight; they also recommended 5W20 oil.

I suspect most of us change the oil sooner than needed - cheap insurance! My friends with BMWs comment on the onboard algorithm that tracks engine usage to compute when oil should be changed. They often go 10,000 or 12,000 miles before the light comes on.

Stanton

outback jx · February 2005

Just got a used 01 Outback 2.5L with 85000 miles.

On the way home (200 miles) the engine check light came up.

I got Subaru to do the recall affecting the diagnostic code,

but nothing changed. Diagnostic says: cat is the problem.

Why would a cat be a problem so early?

Is this normal? I also have an old 98 Outback with well over 100000 miles

and no hint of any cat problems anywhere.

I am not just about to spend $1K on a new cat and labor.

Anyone knows what is going on?

Anyone knows if this could be one or both oxygen sensors?

Anyone knows if e.g. JC Whitney's catalytic converter cleaners are of any use?

Also, the oil level in the car was on the high mark

could that be the origin of the problem?

Would the cat recover if the oil is maintained on the proper level?

I certainly would welcome someone "shining some light". Thanks.

xwesx · February 2005

Very interesting. Thanks for the update! I took a close look at my lamps this morning and noted that, while they are not yellowed, they are certainly somewhat cloudy. Not really enough to notice on a daily basis because my car is always so dirty anyway. It gets 1 bath and 1 waxing per year and that's not to say it stays clean for a long time!!!

This summer when I clean it next, I will try out the brake fluid since I have a bottle hanging out. If it doesn't work, I know I have a 10-yr-old bottle of Brasso laying around here somewhere from USMA.

1 subaru owner · February 2005

This is just an uneducated guess, but I am sorry to say that I have seen posts on other forums that would lead me to believe that your car may have had or has head gasket issues. One post in particular on this website might be of interest to you. http://scott.mcgerik.com/2004/02/18/subaru-outback-head-gasket-le- ak/

The post you are looking for tells of a car that needed a new catalytic converter, and the Subaru owner got the mechanic to admit that the head gasket leak could have contributed to the early demise of the cat.

1 subaru owner · February 2005

No, Gerard5 you are not alone. I just had the drivers side head gasket replaced on my 2.5 liter 2002 Outback station wagon.

c_hunter · February 2005

They told us the same thing for our 04 TSX, which has 10K intervals. So I waited until 10K for the first oil change and the next will be at 20K. Personally, I think it's great -- it will mean far fewer services and lower maintenance cost over the life of the car. I will definitely trust the Honda engineers on this topic!

Craig

stupru · February 2005

Our 2000 Legacy GT has the exact same problem. It has gotten progressively worse and it seems like Russian Roulette: will it shift into drive or not? It sounds like we will be needing a tranny as well.

I just dropped the car off at Subaru and am waiting for the prognosis. They charged $1700 for the repair and that was with support from Subaru..Oh well..I see what happens.

kens · February 2005

I believe Subarus come from the factory with regular conventional oil.

Due to the wide range of driving conditions and habits, it's probably impossible to measure what the impact of an early vs. on-schedule first oil change would have over the life of a car. Hence the multitude of opinions from people on what the best way to break in an engine is.

The best thing to do is do what makes you feel comfortable. Definetly stick to the manufacturer's minimum, but if you want to change more often, there's probably little harm to be done if at all.

Ken

rob_m · February 2005

The headlights and fog lights on my 99 GT were pretty beat after 118k of NE highway driving. They were cloudy and kind of yellow. I used Maguire's swirl remover 2.0 which is a light polishing compound followed by a coat of Mothers Reflections High Tech wax. They came back to almost clear, and clean very easily.

As for valet mode, use the fob to unlock the car with the door open to remove it from valet mode. Rob M.

kaffey · February 2005

I'm new to the forum, and just stumbled on to this thread. I bought an 05 Legacyi last September, and on one cold night in January (in the teens, I think) it had the same problem you are describing. I waited a few minutes, and it finally started. I figured the cold had something to do with it, and forgot about it, until now, reading your posts. My brother is just about to buy a new GT, so it's a good thing my memory has been jogged by your experiences, and it makes me worried about future performance. Should I alert my dealer about this right now, or wait and see when/if it happens again?

terumi1 · February 2005

Have Brasso, will travel!

Those ANC winters are brutal...lots of salt and cynders to keep a car whitish looking. I could see the headlamps taking a beating up there!

xwesx · February 2005

Well, happily I don't visit Anchorage often, especially not during the winter. I am fairly certain that they no longer salt the roads in ANC though... instead they use copious amounts of sand! There is no such thing as a black vehicle during winter in Alaska.

rleong · February 2005

I have a 2000 Forester L with little over 100,000 miles with the same transmission problem. I got the car new and never drove it hard. The Subaru dealer said I need a new transmission and will cost $3500 for a rebuilt one! We bought this car because my Dad had a 81 Subaru GL (bought new) that had close to 200k before it was sold. I doubt I will buy another Subaru.

krzyss · February 2005

100K miles was eternity not so long time ago.

Krzys

sduford · February 2005

Absolutely! I remembe in the 70s and 80s, when a car went "around the odometer", it was a big deal!

Sly

xwesx · February 2005

Haha. Yeah, when I bought my '69 Chevy in 1997, it had 29,090 original miles on it. When I had the first I/M test performed on it, the technician wrote 129,270 on the documentation and I had to argue with him for a good 5 minutes before he finally gave up and reprocessed the form showing the correct mileage.

Of course, on my van, I show 1xxx on the odometer, and this is second time it has rolled over...

But, to get back on point, the tranny should not have gone out unless it was subjected to some sort of severe neglect or abuse. I wonder if the scouring/cleaning treatment outlined above (was it last week?) could help it, or if this is a matter of replacing just a couple defunct parts in the tranny versus a complete replacement.

My neighbor rebuilds transmissions for a living and he says the best way to get a car cheap is for it to have a bad tranny because people usually are just not willing to mess with having them fixed.

powderboy · February 2005

I too have a 2005 Outback, but mine is the 2.5i Limited...

I just took mine to the dealer to have the tranny looked at. I told them that at cold temps, it shifts HORRIBLE. It delays shifting and seems to pause between gears. Shifts are really harsh and it really pisses me off. I've had 4 Subaru's and none of them have done this in the past. My most recent one was a 2000 Outback Ltd.

They looked it over and nobody bothered to tell me that this is "normal". They just said they couldn't find anything wrong. I guess I'll just live with it until the temps get warmer.

About the brakes issue... I've had wierd instances where the brakes felt mushy, but I can't pinpoint how/why they occur.

I have also experienced the "non-starting" you're talking about... just a week ago.

The tranny does upset me though... they should tell people about that, because a new car should NEVER shift that badly, I don't care if it's trying to warm up the tranny fluid. Nonsense...

jsun · February 2005

I wouldn't wait for one minute to alert your dealer about this problem although I doubt they would do anything about it when the car isn't acting up. My dealer always uses "Unable to verify customer concern" as the excuse for not helping. I would also alert SOA (1-800-Subaru3) about this problem by setting up a case. The guy that deals with my case at SOA, Rick Pozniak, keeps telling me that my case is an isolated case and he knows of no other 05' Legacy owners having similar problems. My Case Number is 714166, and you're welcome to reference my Case # when you file yours. Between 12/22/04 and today, my 05' Legacy failed to start on cold mornings a total of 8 times when the outside temperature was in the teens and 20s. There was one other 05' Legacy owner a few weeks back who posted about the same problem you and I have had. A friend of mine who knew about my problems called me the other day that he a couple of weeks ago on a very cold day went to a Subaru dealership to test drive the 05' Legacy GT, and he witnessed in person himself exactly what I had experienced. The salesman at the dealership couldn't get a couple of their 05 Legacy GTs to crank, and it took the guy three cars to find one that finally started. Needless to say, the salesman was very embarrassed and joked "it must be the cold". If I were your brother, I wouldn't take my chances and buy the 05' Legacy unless he lives in a town with mild winter climate. I continue to believe that there is a design flaw or manufacturing defect for a small percentage of the 05' Legacys with the eletrical system somewhere between the ignition key hole and the starter. For a lot of people, this issue may never come up because they either live in a mild climate or they're just plain lucky that they didn't buy the bad ones. For the rest of us unlucky ones, we need to speak up and bring this to the attention of SOA so they could at least acknowledge the fact that there is a problem and work towards a remedy.

Jun

fitzy · February 2005

Please let me know if there is a special section on this issue. I have a 2002 OB LL Bean, nice machine. Several weeks ago after a period of heavy rain and very high winds here in NY I had several drops or water appear inside the car from the overhear light area, I noticed after the drops started to fall on my leg.......a few days ago there was some residual snow on the roof and I seen some water in the same area, no drops. The car is still under warranty, what should I do, will the dealer be able to fix the issue or make it worse??? I don't want the warranty to expire and not bring the issue up with SOA though.

Thanks.....would it be worth purchasing an extended warranty in case this issue cannot be fixed?

c_hunter · February 2005

My 02 Outback LL Bean, our 03 Forester, and my 05 Outback XT all behave the same way when cold. I first learned about this from Mike (paisan) I beleive, and he has experience with older Subarus. So I'd say it's been like this for quite a while -- at least since the mid 90s. Maybe you just notice it more on the 05??

I am not surprised the dealer was clueless. Seems like dealers don't have any enthusiasts that know all the little quirks/details like people on this board. We've heard about some pretty lame information and mis-information coming from dealers.

Craig

c_hunter · February 2005

I would be it's the moonroof drain system -- maybe plugged or leaking.

Craig

kellerc4 · February 2005

1) why does my temp guage read about 2/3 of the way up from bottom? In my 97 Accord, it was always about 1/3 up from bottom. Is this just a difference in car and engine, or is something wrong? Where does your temp guage sit normally if you own an OB wagon?

2) Why does my car idle at about 500rpm, then move up to 1000rpm all by itself, then drop down again? Shouldn't the rpm stay constant at idle?

Thanks!

Chuck

dcm61 · February 2005

Chuck - The temp. guage on my '03 OBW A/T reads just below half when warm.

DaveM

kens · February 2005

Chuck,

1) The gauge position is fairly arbitrary and can vary by manufacturer. One can't really compare the position of one make to another. Most gauges are non-linear too -- the needle will stay in it's "normal" position for quite some time before it starts to show an overheating situation.

2) Your engine also drives all the accessories in your car -- alternator, pumps, fans and compressors. When there's an increased load on any one of these items, the engine responds by increasing it's RPMs. Similarly, if you are accelerating hard, the car is smart enough to temporarily divert power away from accessories like the A/C compressor to make sure you get maximum power.

Ken

xwesx · February 2005

Chuck, as Ken was saying re: accessories, I notice that on mine the idle RPM will bump up when the cooling fans kick in. Usually they will not run constantly at idle, so when they shut off, the RPM will drop back down. Maybe this is what you are experiencing? My fans emit a fairly noticable "whirring" sound, so maybe listen for it and note whether it corresponds with your RPM fluctuation.

wilkich · February 2005

I came across this and don't recall whether it has been referenced in this forum. I had a mechanic look at out 97 Outback with 83k miles and he came to the same conclusion as the car talk guys as far as what generally goes wrong around the 60-90k mileage range. Hope it's helpful.

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/2005/January/01

jsun · February 2005

sms2,

Was your dealer ever able to diagnose your car problem. Please post an update about your car. I continue to have problems starting mine on very cold mornings and would like to know how things are going with yours. Thanks.

Jun

emmanuelchoke · February 2005

Leaking head gaskets don't necessarily ruin the catylitic converter, but the silicate in anti-freeze is the kiss of death to the oxygen sensor. When the O2 sensor becomes contaminated, it causes a rich fuel mixture which overheats the catylitic converter. Once the inner converter surfaces are fused, there is no recovery, it has to be replaced.

If the tech replaces the converter but not the contaminated 02 sensors, the new converter will fail also.

yshen · February 2005

Hi, I got my '05 Legacy back in Nov. The car runs great but there's an intermittent problem with the cruise control. On three different trips, the cruise control light on the dash starts to flicker on/off. Seems like there's a wiring problem somewhere, since I couldn't turn the cruise control on after that. The problem goes away overnight. The dealer service people couldn't find an error code in the computer or replicate the problem. Has anyone else run into this?

kathy4 · February 2005

Does anyone have advice for this: My 2001 Outback has a squealing noise when driving that will go away when I hit the brakes. The first time I noticed it, the repair shop said there wasn't a problem, but after a few months, the sound was so pronounced that I had to turn up the radio quite loud just to hear it. At that point, they said that I needed new rotors/brakes. Less than a year later, the squealing noise is starting up again. Is this normal---or more specifically, is it normal to have to get new brakes for this car every year? The dealer looked at it and said they didn't see anything. Any help or advice would be appreciated!

jay_24 · February 2005

Many 2001 Outbacks had and issue with brake squeal when in reverse. I noticed it when backingout of the garage in the morning. This was fixed by a shim kit for the brake pads. I'm not aware of any other brake issues. My 2001 has 65k on the orignal pads and rotors.

You might wnat ot try an independant repair shop that does good brake work. Do an oil change and tire rotation and they might look at the brakes for free.

--jay

gearhead4 · February 2005

wilkich,

Even though I have owned 3 previous Subarus, I have never owned them long enough to have these kinds of problems occur.

But, I keep saying "This Subaru I will keep till the wheels fall off". So, knowing what to expect around 70,000 miles will help alot- just in case I do keep my 05 Legacy 2.5i that long.

Thanks!

-Jim

jmtreetop · February 2005

I have a 2005 OBXT MT and have never had a problem starting it in negative degree weather. I live in CO. It cranks a little slower but always starts as quickly as it does when warm.

kellerc4 · February 2005

UPDATE: After some more careful observation, it

seems that the jump in my tach reading at idle is maybe related to the temp gauge reading a little hot. I was on my way home from hockey practice last night, and not half a mile into the trip, the tach jumped to 1000 while sitting at a light. I listened carefully, and definitely

heard the whirr of the fan which had kicked on. Why the fan is on that early in a ride is beyond me, but perhaps that adds some info

to the temp gauge reading hot? I plan to call the dealer today and see if they will address this Saturday when the car goes in for non-

mechanical "we owe" items.

A nagging question: I went to teh dealer Monday to drop something off, and while there asked if they could give me a printout of what they did on the 30k service so I could use it to start my file of service records. After 10-15 minutes of waiting, someone finally told me that they were having some trouble with the computer, and is

there any reason that I couldn't just get teh record this Saturday when I come back in. I agreed, but after a few days to think about

it, I am wondering if they really did not do much of anything but told me they did a full 30k service, and now they are in a bind because I am asking for a record that they do not have or do not want to show me. Thoughts?

Thanks

Chuck

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Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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