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Drew
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Vans and SUVs message boards
I have a friend w/ same system, will see if he has remote I can borrow.
I have heard that body hardware and electrical systems rated poorly -- relatively frequent problems like w/ the EX doors; recalls involving A/C line, rear window vent motors, sliding door latches... could cause a poor rating in a van that is not breaking down on the highway at every turn. Don't forget that this is a comparison, and an exceptionally weak performance on a few items can really drag down rating in this merely statistical analysis.
Now, Honda's list of Odyssey recalls does not exactly please me as an Odyssey owner, but having the applicable ones fixed in my van, and as new vans are made sans such problems, in comparing Odyssey to the competition I still feel I made the right purchase decision. Odyssey's engine is a sound machine, based upon existing designs for highly reliable cars. I knew what I was potentially getting into with the EX doors; however, there are times when it is nice not to tell one's self "I told you so..."
Of course, just my humble $0.02.
It isn't. I've written a letter to CR asking why this is so when vans that rated better per its user-based evaluations *did* end up on the list. I suspect that there is a discontinuity that results from leaving outdated reports on-line.
Yes, the 200K-odd vehicle owners who respond to thes surveys are simply "mere statistical analysis." I'd rather rely on a good old salesman speil any day !
I have been getting the CR for years and you can expect the 2000 models to be more reliable then the 1999's and the the 2001 more reliable then the 2000.
I have a 2000 EX I picked up the end of the model year in June of 2000. Unlike some of the earlier 2000's it has not been involved in any recalls. I also have the Honda Care Warranty of 07/100/0. I will not have 100k miles on the car in 7 years so I will be covered for 7 years. If I should sell it to a private party the warranty is transferable and that should cover any reliability questions in the buyers mind.
I plan to keep the car at least 7 years and at the end of that period I doubt that the relibility will be much of an issue to who ever buys the car. So lets say I have to sell the car for $500 less. $500 is not a significant amount over 7 years that it would have any weight in my decision process. Even $1,000 would not be a big deal. You can figure the cost of a car at 35 cents per mile. So worst case The Odyssey costs me $36,000 over 100k miles versus $35,000 because of the CR reliability rating, and thats the worst case. It will not change my life. That is equal to 40 cents a day over 7 years.
I have now sold three cars to private parties and at no time was reliability considered by the buyer as they were old cars by the time I sold them. So I am not going to spend any time worrying about what CR rates the reliability of the 99 Odyssey in their April 2001 issue.
I hate to consider the implications of the salesman's comment that they weren't included. Hopefully, he was thinking about the LX trimline for another model. Or, perhaps, floormats weren't included for the 2000 LX, but are for the 2001?
At any rate, I'll find out tomorrow. I'll let you know how it went. (This assumes of course that you care... :-) )
--the rear spoilers are on national backorder (they claim to have never heard of one cracking!)
--they called honda techline and said the low fuel light/inaccurate gas gauge readings are normal since the tank is so flat. i was told AGAIN that having a warning with 8 gallons left in the tank was a GOOD THING! especially since the ody "only" gets 20 mpg! ...yeah, right
--they called honda techline about the homelink. they told me again that there is nothing they can do about increasing the range on my homelink remote since the problem is not with the unit but with the frequency of my genie garage door opener (which i might be able to accept EXCEPT that i have one button programmed for the entry gate to our subdivision and another button programmed for my sister's stanley garage door opener and those don't work unless my bumper is practically touching them either!)
otherwise, i'm very happy ;-)
caviller, i was looking for your posts on the latch car seats but i cannot find them THANKS TO THIS CONFOUNDED NEW TOWN HALL FORMAT. can you summarize for me or give me the msg no.? thanks
Tnks, de Hawkeye
Maybe they're playing the truth-by-literalism game we used to use on Mom ("I never saw one, Mom!" Heh heh heh, but I did see three!). And of course they are on national backorder; the things have been cracking regularly since the new design came out for model year 1999! Any that come in get installed on those owners who have noticed theirs cracked.
Aw well, you can comfort yourself in knowing that I have yet to hear a single report of any actual pieces falling off the cracked spoilers....
PS I forgot to mention. Mom wasn't fooled either....
I posted on another forum, this one should be a static link:
http://www.babyexpressstores.com/wwwboard02/messages/3070.html
I also have some links to other sites on child seats including a compatibility list at my site:
http://www.caviller.com
NAV manuals: While I was waiting for my van to be delivered, I called Honda at 800-999-1009 to request any info they could provide about the NAV units because so little was available. The gentleman I talked to suggested that he just send me an owner's manual. I was impressed! I don't know if they can do that every time someone asks, but it's worth a try. Good luck.
Chuck
Keep in mind that even though the EPA estimate is 18/25, they state that this can vary from 12-25 city and 15-31 highway. Depending where you live, many factors can take a hit on your mileage including:
-Very cold temperatures
-Snowy/slushy roads and/or winter traffic
-Defroster usage (A/C is automatic with defroster unless you turn it off manually)
-Low tire pressure
-Long idle/warmup times
-New Phase II reformulated gasoline
See the chart at the bottom of this link for more info:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfgecon.htm
Grplavloff-
I think what miniman was saying is that the problems that may plague the '99 Odyssey might not be serious engine/transmission type issues. Instead, they may be electrical issues like the power doors or recall repairs that may be annoying but not serious or causing breakdowns on the road. The brakes category is of some concern, however.
Out of curiousity, does the website show how the categories like "Engine", "Transmission", "Cooling", "Fuel" and "Ignition" are doing? Otherwise, I suspect miniman may be right as to which problems are dragging down the overall reliability.
So that seems to say if you drive 100% in the city, expect 12mpg. If you drive 100% on the highway, expect 33mpg, and that is in the range of values for gas mileage that people on this board have been reported.
The reason the Odyssey does poorly in the city is that it weighs 4245 pounds and heavy cars,or anything else that is heavy, do not get good gas mileage in stop and go driving as their weight is being constantly brought to a stop and then re accelerated and that takes a lot of energy to accomplish that.
Like that edit button, Just saw it and fixed at least a few of the errors in my post
binkybarnes - on your millenium, shmellenium post - you need a beer. Now that's an idea for Honda service Dept. You won't be driving home since you dropped of your vehicle, so why not one on the house, and suddenly the fuel gauge problem is not so bad... (Problem is that the Bud tap begins to look like the 10W30 tap after a few drinks and... no, that wouldn't be good.)
Last thought - this forum is getting awfully long, never seen them get into the thousands before but I am not complaining. It's good not to have to find the latest Odyssey forum number. Trying to keep up w/ the Superbowl #'s!
I will be sending out letters to the regional Honda office and the dealership to take advantage of my lemon law rights.
Do you have any suggestions? Thank you!
I had door prpblems. Honda zone office called me at work to follow up on the repairs after I wrote to them to complain. The dealer called the tech line during the repair, and for a problem that occurred every other day, having gone 1 1/2 weeks w/o a recurrance yet is cause for cautious optimism. Thus, doors can probably be fixed, just lean on Honda and the dealership to do it right. Transmission problem is disappointing, perhaps try to get them to extend your warranty too.
Good luck.
Drew
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Vans and SUVs message boards
http://hometown.aol.com/bgsautointeriors/91LEGREAR.JPG
http://hometown.aol.com/bgsautointeriors/91LEGREAR2.JPG
de Hawkeye
"Out of curiousity, does the website show how the categories like "Engine", "Transmission", "Cooling", "Fuel" and "Ignition" are doing?"
The survey results for the `99 Odyssey showed four problem areas. They were as follows, with percentage ranges (I rounded to nearest whole pct) for each one: brakes, 5-9% ; electrical, 9-15% ; "integrity" - 9-15% ; hardware, > 15%
The survey results for the `99 Dodge Grand Caravan showed a total of 3 problems, all in the 5-9% range: suspension, "integrity", and hardware.
The `99 Toyota Sienna results were better yet: hardware, 5-9% .
I realize that there are some people here whose egos are caught up in their car-purchasing decisions and thus are very defensive about the Odyssey. But the plain-and-simple fact is that the Odyssey just hasn't proven to be a very reliable vehicle. that doesn't mean that it isn't a very good choice for other reasons.
I agree with the argument that reliability is not likely to hurt resale value for someone keeping their car for a long time. It is also true that the vast majority of reliability problems in any vehicle do not cause injury or death.
The major concern over reliability for many of us is simply the time it takes to deal with problems: the vehicle has to be hauled over to the dealer. Most problems are taken care of in a day. Some aren't. Ironically, these tend to be at opposite ends of the spectrum: catastrophic problems, such as transmission failure, or insidious little ones like a partially functioning automatic sliding door for which you have to go back 2,3,4 times before it is finally fixed. Electrical problems tend to fall into this category. Given all that, the categories of the reliability problems are not, in most cases, as important as the overall frequency. That, at least, is the case if you are busy and your schedules are full.
You are pushing a 4300+ lb vehicle, excluding yourself and any other contents, in stop-and-go driving. There is no magic here.
"But the plain-and-simple fact is that the Odyssey just hasn't proven to be a very reliable vehicle."
I don't disagree. This is not the point. The point is what types of problems, and if they have been resolved. Indeed, if miniman is right, many of these issues have had recalls, and/or may have been fixed for 2000 or 2001.
The subscriber is ultimately responsible for categorizing problems on the survey, so this is all speculation anyway. Still, the '99 was a first year model and based on the types and frequency of reports on forums like this one, it does seem like mimiman may be correct.
"Given all that, the categories of the reliability problems are not, in most cases, as important as the overall frequency."
I don't always agree. Casastropic areas like those I mentioned (engine, transmission, ignition, etc) may not only be a safety hazard, but often require immediate attention. Other areas like "Hardware" often have problems that can be resolved on the next service visit, and are merely annoying in the meantime. None of this is to defend the '99 Odyssey's reliability record.
Thanks for passing on the information!
That's why I said "most cases."
I have heard you need to be sure that the vehicle was actually produced for sale in the US. Other than the sticker, How do you verify this ?
The dealer actually mentioned that all his are produced for the US before I even asked. He said the "nonUSA" one's auto climate controls read out in degrees I and can't be changed to degrees F. That didn't sound right to me since every car I have had with a digital hemp can be either I or F.
Anyone have any comments/advice ??
Thanks
That's the issue we're debating. Is Odyssey (at least for 1999) one of those cases where the type of problems is important (as in post #1014), or is it just not a very reliable vehicle in general. As you stated, key competitors are doing much better for that year anyway, so for used car buyers, it probably wouldn't make a difference if it is one of those cases or not.
adobeman-
I think Odysseys sold in Canada also have DRLs and heated mirrors. Someone might also confirm if they have a different VIN numbering system. You could always get the VIN from your dealer and see if you can call Honda to confirm it is a USA warrantied vehicle. I also wonder if the MSRP/options label will be different. The bottom of mine lists a port of entry (Buffalo) and delivery point, as well as US-specific info like 50-state emissions and a notice that US Law prohibits alteration of the label. You may not get the USA warranty book, either.
I think the only reason to stay away from a model made for sale in Canada is the lack of a Honda warranty valid at all USA dealers. Otherwise, the van is identical, and has a few extra minor features. From what I've read, most Canadian-spec models sold in the USA have had their speedos changed to read in mph so that shouldn't be an issue.
If Honda allows its dealers to discriminate against Canadian Odysseys it would be totally irresponsible of the company not to verify vins for prospective customers.
I live in Buffalo. I've thought of buying a Sienna or an Odyssey in Canada and simply taking it there for service. The Sienna would probably be the better choice for something like this, tho.
CR does classify problem areas, so you can pick a car with those that look the least odious to you. Some are probably ambiguous. For instance, brakes are a problem area on the `99 Odysseys. That conjures up all sorts of scary , like slamming into a truck in an intersection. Then again, the problem may be noise or something else reasonably benign. This is where partisanship comes into play :-)
Thanks for the help.
The paint application on the Hidden Hitch Round Tube is better than a Draw-Tite Square type. (Doesn't mean this applies to all square types.) I have the Round tube on my 2000 Odyssey and had a Draw-Tite on my 1996 Blazer which was traded in. The Hidden Hitch will be shipped to you without a box from Bageco and will get scratched, I touched it up with Rustoleum before installation. Remember, this is just a hitch and will eventually rust anyway.
I bought the hitch for carrying bikes as well. I'm also using it as protection in case I get rear-ended, even though it is rather low. I figure with a short extension and a hitchball, it should offer enough protection. Roof-mounting a bike rack is a bad idea on minivan's and SUVs. Even if the bike weighs less than 18 lbs., it can be a struggle. Plus, you don't want to forget low-clearance situations which could snap your seatpost, or worse, your entire roof.
I've also applied reflective tape on the back of the hitch for added visibility. I also put tape on the inside of the tailgate and all parts of the inside of alll 4 doors.
The only drawback to the hitch is it reduces your rear angle of approach or departure when dealing with any graded surface, which I'm sure you are aware of already. I also use my hitch with an aluminum hitch-haul for carrying big things I don't want inside the van.
The Toyota's reliability is *significantly* better.
"All I can say to those who whine about trivial things going wrong with their Oddysey's is be glad you do not own a Chrysler van. If you don't belie me than go to the message boards for the Caravan's or Town and Country. "
There are something like 15-20 times as many of those on the road as there are Odysseys, so you would expect 15-20 times more posts in the complaint boards if all else was equal. In reality, the ratio is much smaller.
Hope this helps.
I will offer kudos (and my purchasing $$) to the company that succeeds in matching quality, features and safety in the mix I prefer (not necessarily in that order). In 1999, Honda was king. Maybe not in 2003-7 when most of us current Odyssey owners return for a new van. Performance on rating scales is fluid, and can vary from vehicle to vehicle and year to year for a manufacturer. Quality standards were tapped by Honda to gain entry into US market which began with the joke-like CVCC in an era when most everyone drove monster-sized American cars. Now look at Honda. I stil have faith in my Odyssey, and expect it to provide years of trouble-free service. I am not married to any manufacturer or country of origin, and will spend my future purchase dollars as wisely in the future as in the past. If they fail their customers, they will have a glut of vehicles in the future and some other manufacturer will have the waiting lists.
Hope they do not let us all down on this van; only time will tell.
I've got mostly Yakima equipment, but the Performance value is hard to ignore. I've got an older unit that did not fold down. If I'm not mistaken the new units do fold down. It doesn't have the fancy lock system like a Yakima/Thule, but it does the trick.
I can't justify paying $300+ for a Yakima/Thule hitch unit when the Performance functions just as well without all of the bulk. It is pretty simple to use as well. I go back to the LaPreAlpina bike rack days of the early 80s before Yakima came on the seen. Racks have come a long way.
I've done a little research on the Canadian vs. US Odyssey and have satisfied myself that odometer issue mentioned in earlier posts on this board is a non-issue with respect to the vans offered by the broker I am talking with. The vans are imported by a licensed auto importer and the speedometer switch is done under Washington State Patrol supervision. Kilometers on the original odometer are converted to miles and the new odometer is advanced to reflect those miles. The State Patrol signs off on the change and the new odometer, as well as the title, accurately reflect vehicle mileage at the time of transfer.
I am satisfied that the switch over is done legally and that the vehicle title will accurately reflect actual mileage. Unless there are problems with the odometer later in the car's life, there should be no problems certifying that the mileage on the odometer accurately reflects mileage on the vehicle.
The other issue mentioned, dealing with US Honda dealers refusing to honor the manufacturer's warranty, is more problematic, and I am still investigating.