I did this on my 99 Legacy Sedan last winter. Total time of the job was about 1/2 an hour. Bulbs cost about $15.00. I replaced all three while I was in there. Good Luck! Rob M.
I just brought my 97 legacy L wagon in for service because the outside front door handle would no longer open the door. Picked it up and was surprised at how much it cost: $133 for the latch, plus 1.5 hours labor x $70/hr to remove and replace the drivers door. Could any with experience working on these cars or with similar repairs comment on whether it really takes an hour and a half to take a door off and put it back on again? I admittedly have never removed a door myself, but this strikes me as a lot of time for what ought to be a relatively simple procedure.
I tried removing the existing antenna and had very little luck. I opened up the lining in the trunk, but I cannot reach the fasteners, though I can see them. I doubt if the antenna should be accessed from outside, by opening up the panel adjacent to the rear door.
In the mean time, I managed to find a generic antenna, again at Wal-Mart for < $10. The instructions say I should pull out the existing antenna from the top, cut the connecting wire, attach it to this new antenna and just insert the new antenna back in. No panels to open!!
Sounds reasonable to me. I'd rather they be careful with doors to avoid damage, and also line it up perfectly when they reinstall it, not to mention clean and apply new lube to the latches.
Good Day, Here at work one of my co-worker bought a 05 legacy lmtd nice very all the toys. I have to say the legacy is sharp. She is having a code being display in her odometer the code is IIL.5 can any of you subaru owner help.
ill5 means illumination level 5 and should be displayed only whenthe headlights or parking lights are on and you are ajusting the dash immumination lights (range from ill 1 to 5). It should stay on for a few seconds after you ajust them.
If you are getting this when the headlights or parkign lights are off it seems like a problem, as well as if it just happens by itself w/ those lights on.
I have a 2001 LLBean with 75k and it has been a great car, with the exception of the brakes. I have had the rotors turned twice and the brakes work fairly well for about 2-3 months and then begin to pulsate and gradually get worse. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this problem and if so have you found a good aftermarket solution. Subaru says, "what problem?". I was thinking about some Brembo rotors and ceramic pads. I hate to trade in a great car but the brakes are driving me nuts. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Guy
Turning the rotors can make them thinner and more prone to warping. Overtigthening the lugnuts can contribute to warping too. It's something that affects virtually every make out there. Though, warped rotors generally don't affect the braking output, they just give you that pulsating feedback.
Aftermarket is certainly a fine way to go for rotors.
Thanks for the reply. I had a Pontiac GP with real wire wheels and had the problem of warping the rotors with an impact lug wrench so am familiar with that problem. I specifically told the mechanic to use a torque wrench so I don't think that is the problem. You might have something about the rotors being to thin. Especially if the steel was faulty and prone to heat up and warp to begin with. I didn't mention tho that this is my wife's car and she is 65 and drives like it. What makes me suspicious is the fact that the brakes work fine for a couple of months and then just gradually go out of true.
Warped rotors are the most annoying feature of my 02 VDC. The fronts were turned at 20k, and replaced under warranty at 35k. The rears were turned at 35k. Now at 45k, the fronts are again warped and need turning, at my expense. The rotors on my wife's 04 VDC warped at 15k and were turned, under warranty. In theory, the dealer, who is the only one to work on both cars knows to not over torque. And, as best I can tell from talking with the service tech, the problem is often (and was for my wife's car) out of round warping, not rust or glaze build-up.
Patti of SOA who was so helpful to many of us once said that Subaru required the use of an on the wheel lathe. I am told that my dealer disputes this with SOA and likes to take the rotors off so that they can turn both sides, (which they say you don't do with the on the wheel lathe). The dealer has also told me they see no difference in long-term results whether they use an on the wheel lathe or take off the rotors to turn them. I don't know if SOA thinks the on the wheel lathe does a better job or just save them the additional labor costs of taking the rotors off the car.
I can't understand why SOA hasn't come up with a fix as it must cost them big bucks to turn and replace rotors under warranty. I know some folks never get warped rotors, and that there have been reports of warped rotors even when torque wrenches are used.
I could almost have written your reply. I knew I wasn't the only one with this problem. My rotors were turned on the car and both sides were machined at the same time (pretty sure of that). The frustrating thing about this is that I had a Honda Accord wagon (1991) and sold it with 157k and the brakes front or rear were never touched. Not even pads. How hard would it be for Subaru to buy a Honda and copy the brakes. In any case I've about decided to try an aftermarket combo but don't really know which would work best. I was hoping someone had discovered something that works well.
Might just as well throw my hat into this ring. The rotors were turned on my '02 OBW at about 20k miles, and now at 34k suffer severe pulsation. I have noticed a couple of things about them: 1) There is a tech service bulletin out about inner front pads that are prone to sticking. Apparently there was a run of slightly oversized backing plates that bind up in the carrier and do not retract properly. Sure enough, both inner pads are down to near nothing, while the outers are still very thick. 2) When the pulsing gets bad, I can gain temporary relief by doing a hard stop from high speed, then continuing to roll a bit until the brakes cool. So I suspect that it is indeed a buildup of transfered material (probably from those inner pads that stay in contact when hot), and it is possible to scrub it off. This may work for a week or two, then it gradually returns. Jim (jfl) and I discussed this during my visit out West last week.
Anyone with specific recommendations on parts, or should I just go for another set of OEM pads and rotors?
I've continued to have both our cars serviced at the dealer. I've asked more than once, but they tell me there is no SOA upgrade for pads or rotors. If you are still within the 3/36 warranty (or perhaps close), rotors and pads are covered under the 3/36 wear warranty. I know about glazing and rust as a cause for "warping", but when my wife's car was done a few weeks back, the tech was clear that the rotors alone were out of round and there was no rust or glazing. Martin
I'm puzzled by the term out of round as it relates to rotors :confuse: I can see where they can glaze, pit, get surface corrosion, or have excessive run out.
But when viewed from the side its a round disc of metal. I've never seen one turn oblong before.. :P
BTW - when the time comes for me to do new rotors I'll definitely be going aftermarket. Not necessarily complaining about Subaru's only. Front rotors were the biggest complaint I had on all of my Mercury Sables. Never had set make it into the 20k range w/o warping.
I was going to post on a couple of the "other" Subaru forums and see what a couple of the heavy hitters recommnend. I am not interested in up-sizing them, or putting on 4-pots or anything else. But I have to believe there are better rotors out there.
It blows me away that there is this type of problem with factory rotors (and not limited to just Subaru, apparently). I am at 196K on my car with original rotors and if I have to replace them at all, I will be surprised/disappointed. That's actually one aspect of the car that works well and always has!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Same here. No major hardware changes required, as I left my 'boy racer' tendencies far behind. The existing combo meets my needs. The pads are 'soft' enough to respond reasonably well when cold, yet don't leave gobs of black dust behind. But I have never had as much rotor runout problems (pad transfer, huge raised rust spots if the car sits at the airport for a week) as with this car.
OK guys, go do your homework for me and report back!
Yes, out of flat would be more accurate. But excessive runout is what we are talking about. The tech service bulletin that fibber2 mentioned might be getting close to the culprit. I also was told that the inside pads were worn excessively. If they are dragging all the time that has got to be generating a lot of heat. (thus the possibility of warping-and probably not doing much for gas mileage either.) I found lots of aftermarket rotors and pads on the tire rack website. Most of the other brake vendors don't even mention the Outback,(not high performance I guess). From what fibber2 says tho, the problem might be more related to the calipers which the tire rack doesn't even list. I don't mind going aftermarket but I hate to spend a bunch of money shooting in the dark. Maybe some of the real wrenches will respond.
As Steve (fibber2) and I discussed it last week, it was the backing plate on the brake pad that was over size and preventing the inner pad from retracting. As you point out, that could lead to excessive heat and warping. We also felt that the continuous contact between pad and rotor could leave a residue on the rotor when parked. (Which Steve has experienced.)
My 2000 Legacy has not had any of these problems. I changed the pads at 65k. In hindsight I should have just changed the rear pads as the front pads still had quite a bit of lining. The new pads, front and rear, are fine 60k miles later. I'll stick with Subie parts when it's necessary to replace the rotors. YMMV.
I'm not sure there is one cause or one solution to the problem of uneven pad wear or "warped" rotors. The tech told me that there was no glazing on the rotors of my wife's 04, just an uneven surface that resulted in feeling pulsation in the pedal. The pads on my 02 were not worn when checked by the tech, but there is pulsation in the pedal. I've wondered if the extra weight of the H6 generated more heat build-up that caused "warping". I'm also wondering if the OEM rotors just aren't sturdy enough to handle the heat build-up (in addition to the uneven-sized backing plate problem described by Steve). Martin
Agree... there appear to be multiple gremlins at play here. And realize that I am only guessing at what is causing my specific situation given the evidence at hand. My brakes will literally lock up if parked hot & wet for a week. Put it in gear, and rev to 1500 rpm to break them free. Then thump thump thump for a week thereafter. And of course the dealer told me they could find nothing wrong - pistons retract, calipers were moving freely on the carrier, etc. So given the premature wearout of the inner pads on both sides, I can only conclude that they were not aware of, or ignored the TSB.
Steve- Perhaps we can also agree that "iffy" dealer diagnosis and repair should be added to the mix. (Remembering the run-around you had with your head gasket repair). It hasn't helped my comfort level when I'm told by the service Manager that 'warping" results from rust build-up due to salt use on the roads in the winter, and then I am told by the person doing the work on the car that rotors that are "warped" have no rust build-up or glaze on them. Brakes aside, we find our cars pretty solid and well-built and are happy with our purchases. Martin
When I bought our Bean it came with a bunch of free oil changes. I normally change my own oil but since it was free I decided to let the dealership perform it. As is my habit I checked the oil as soon as I picked it up. It was 2 qts overfilled (no exaggeration). I drained out two quarts and called the dealer. Needless to say, I was not a happy camper. A paraphrase of thier comments is, "well mistakes happen, we won't charge you for the extra two quarts". My car has never darkened the door of Bub Clary Chev/Subaru since that day. Not exactly the way to build customer confidence. However, in spite of that incident I still believe this car is as good as I have ever owned, with the exception of the brakes. But here is the bottom line; we are thinking it's time to get a new car and because of what I am hearing on this forum and after what Subaru has done to correct the problem, we will look elsewhere for a replacement. I have to wonder how many others will do the same.
Hi All, Though I would weigh-in on my least favorite topic - Outback brakes! My '02 Bean went through two sets of front rotors and pads in the first 25k. Benefiting from help on this board and my own checking, it was clear that the dealer was over-torquing the lug nuts by 40-60 lbs! I have not had a hint of pulsation in the last 30k because I always check after the car goes in for service and re-torque as needed.
Anyway, I just had my 55k oil change and the dealer was good enough to "inform" me that my pads were at 80% wear and that I should have them replaced for $520.00 (included machining the rotors). :surprise:
I told them I would wait until the 60k service. I checked TireRack and they have NEW Brembo front rotors for $66 each! Pads are about $40 a set. I doubt I even need the rotors machined at all, but I thought this quote was absolutely ridiculous! Needless to say I have found a good local mechanic to do all my work from now on! I replaced my rear rotors previously, and I know it is a one-hour job for an amateur without a proper lift!
Question - TireRack also sells Frozen Rotors by Diversified Cryogenics at $115 each. Anyone had any experience with these? Are they worth the extra $50 each?
I would be sure to check the torque after getting the car back from service. SOA advises 65-72 ft. lbs. on the lug nuts. I have experienced the DEALER consistently going over 100 ft lbs!
Yep, it is bad for the brakes, and for the alloy wheels as well. Some mfgrs have steel inserts buried in the lug nut region of the alloy hub to absorb abuse, but Subi does not.
I always have them write on the service order to hand tighten to 70 ft-lbs when it goes in, and my Craftsman Microtork wrench is readily at hand to check!
Note to all: remember to dial these units back to zero when not in use, otherwise the accuracy suffers.
I've asked the dealer I use (designated as a Subaru Stellar Performer) to hand tighten the lug nuts. Their response: "Our techs don't have the time". Martin
Would anyone know what component in the ignition system would most likely have failed to generate that code P0303 (#3 Cylinder Misfire). It's on a 2000 outback. I have 71K on it.
Then get your own torque wrench and re-tighten them each time.
I got one from Sears for about $40, the type that sort of "pops" when you reach the torque specified. Then get one ratchet the size of the lugs (21mm? I think?). Takes about 1 minute per wheel, is all.
The most obvious thing to check is the wire. It may have slipped out of the harness and it burning through against a hot part. Check all wires to prevent kicking yourself when, though you know which one was #3, the car didn't* and the problem was with #1 or so.
* Said sarcastically, but sometimes people are sure they know which wire is which only to have to backwards, be safe and check all.
Have had my 2.5 ltd outback for 10 months now, almost 26,000 miles. Very pleased with vehicle except that, in the past few weeks have had headlamps on both side go. First one was on driver side & dealer replaced under warranty. Than, another one went this Sunday & I had a trip planned so went to Peb Boys & bought one for $15 (actually two so that I can keep a spare) I am not the most mechanically inclined on such matter & they ended installing this for me on passenger side. Took about 15 minutes to reach in there & change it. Seems to me I read on message board others have had similar problems. Any comments out there???
Put new Bridgestone RE-950s on my '00 OBW Ltd. a week or so ago at about 72K. The original Firestones were replaced at 36K even though they still had some tread left but one had a half dollar sized hunk out of the sidewall and I didn't want to tempt fate. The Michelin MXV4+ that went on at 36K still had 6/32 left but I want to use them on my '94 Lincoln Mark VIII. The Mark VIII MXV4s have been on since 1998 and are down to 3/32. I don't put many miles on that car (800 -1200/year) so a new set of MXV4s that would run $600 would rubber rot before the tread was even noticeably worn. This way the Subaru gets new tires and the Mark VIII gets replacements with better tread.
Did not go with the MXV4s on the Subaru. The RE-950s have much better ratings on Tire Rack in just about all areas and are significantly cheaper -- A little over $400 at Costco, compared with $535 for the MXV4s (after the $60 rebate).
--K9Leader 2000 OBW Ltd., 72K (my daily driver) 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, 104k (fun car) 1998 Toyota Sienna, 115K (family hauler) 1993 Volvo 940, 104K (safe wheels for the kid) 2004 Mazda 6s, 15K (wife's company car)
That kind of answer "torques" me off. okay, terrible pun, :P but you after all are paying for their time. Sheesh.
Bring your own torque wrench and re-torque them on the lot. In plain sight. In front of possible new customers. Be sure to tell anyone that asks exactly why you have to re-torque your own lug nuts.
There are dealerships and there are stealerships....
I found, much to my dismay, that a 21 mm socket WILL remove the 19 mm lug nuts (I guess as long as they aren't torqued to 100 ft. lbs, that is!). Problem is, it will also remove the corners on the hex nut.
I have a reversible (19 mm X 21 mm) Snap-On impact socket and inadvertently used the wrong side one time as I was rotating my tires. As I removed the first lug nut using my impact wrench, I realized something wasn't right. I checked and found that I had used the 21 mm side. The nut was stuck into the socket, but I was finally able to remove it. The corners of that nut were slightly rounded off, but I have never had a problem with it since. I did, however, mark the 19mm side of the socket with brightly colored paint to (hopefully) keep that from happening again.
I have had the RE-950's for about 10,000 miles and I love them! I also went to CostCo and got them for about $100 each (installed). They even HAND-TORQUE all the lug nuts to manufacturer specifications. Funny that SOA won't share these same specs with the dealers!
I bought my '02 Outback a few months ago, it now has about 56k miles, A few weeks ago the driver's side headlight burnt out, a week and a half ago the passenger's side went. I also ended up buying 2 the first time around so I had a spare in the car. I don't know if the 05s and 06s are different from the 02s, but mine took less than 5 minutes to replace. Once you know what to do the next time it should be easier. No tools are required, just twist the white cover, pull it back carefully. Remove the 2 wires from the bulb, press and move the metal retaining clip that holds the bulb in place. Just pull the bulb out. Be careful not to touch the glass on the new bulb.
We have to remember that the headlights on the new Subarus are DRL's. They are on ALL the time. I had both mine replaced after almost a year as well and I drive 18,000 miles a year. If that's the worst thing to go wrong so far...that's good.
When I almost come to a stop, I hear a clicking (I don't know how else to describe it) coming from around the brake pedal. Sounds like a caliper noise...but I'm pretty sure it's around the pedal. Just started happening. I have almost 20,000 miles on my 05 OB Ltd.
I would really like bigger brakes... has anyone replaced the rotors with bigger ones yet on the 05 OB? Would I need different calipers too? I find the brakes on the highway to be insufficient...sometimes scary. :surprise:
I don't know about the noise, unless it is the ABS. I have not had any brake issues w/ my 05 OB (base engine) w/ 31k miles. I have had a few close calls w/ dear on the highway and felt nothing but conifident w/ my stopping ability. What is happening that you find insufficient?
Comments
Thanks!
Luke
In the mean time, I managed to find a generic antenna, again at Wal-Mart for < $10. The instructions say I should pull out the existing antenna from the top, cut the connecting wire, attach it to this new antenna and just insert the new antenna back in. No panels to open!!
Do you think this will work?
-juice
-juice
v/r
Fig.
Check the other discussion.
Krzys
-juice
If you are getting this when the headlights or parkign lights are off it seems like a problem, as well as if it just happens by itself w/ those lights on.
Guy
Aftermarket is certainly a fine way to go for rotors.
-Brian
Patti of SOA who was so helpful to many of us once said that Subaru required the use of an on the wheel lathe. I am told that my dealer disputes this with SOA and likes to take the rotors off so that they can turn both sides, (which they say you don't do with the on the wheel lathe). The dealer has also told me they see no difference in long-term results whether they use an on the wheel lathe or take off the rotors to turn them. I don't know if SOA thinks the on the wheel lathe does a better job or just save them the additional labor costs of taking the rotors off the car.
I can't understand why SOA hasn't come up with a fix as it must cost them big bucks to turn and replace rotors under warranty. I know some folks never get warped rotors, and that there have been reports of warped rotors even when torque wrenches are used.
1) There is a tech service bulletin out about inner front pads that are prone to sticking. Apparently there was a run of slightly oversized backing plates that bind up in the carrier and do not retract properly. Sure enough, both inner pads are down to near nothing, while the outers are still very thick.
2) When the pulsing gets bad, I can gain temporary relief by doing a hard stop from high speed, then continuing to roll a bit until the brakes cool. So I suspect that it is indeed a buildup of transfered material (probably from those inner pads that stay in contact when hot), and it is possible to scrub it off. This may work for a week or two, then it gradually returns. Jim (jfl) and I discussed this during my visit out West last week.
Anyone with specific recommendations on parts, or should I just go for another set of OEM pads and rotors?
Steve
But when viewed from the side its a round disc of metal. I've never seen one turn oblong before.. :P
BTW - when the time comes for me to do new rotors I'll definitely be going aftermarket. Not necessarily complaining about Subaru's only. Front rotors were the biggest complaint I had on all of my Mercury Sables. Never had set make it into the 20k range w/o warping.
Larry
Larry: Any specific recommendation on rotor suppliers?
Steve
Larry
Same here. No major hardware changes required, as I left my 'boy racer' tendencies far behind. The existing combo meets my needs. The pads are 'soft' enough to respond reasonably well when cold, yet don't leave gobs of black dust behind. But I have never had as much rotor runout problems (pad transfer, huge raised rust spots if the car sits at the airport for a week) as with this car.
OK guys, go do your homework for me and report back!
Steve
I found lots of aftermarket rotors and pads on the tire rack website. Most of the other brake vendors don't even mention the Outback,(not high performance I guess). From what fibber2 says tho, the problem might be more related to the calipers which the tire rack doesn't even list. I don't mind going aftermarket but I hate to spend a bunch of money shooting in the dark. Maybe some of the real wrenches will respond.
My 2000 Legacy has not had any of these problems. I changed the pads at 65k. In hindsight I should have just changed the rear pads as the front pads still had quite a bit of lining. The new pads, front and rear, are fine 60k miles later. I'll stick with Subie parts when it's necessary to replace the rotors. YMMV.
Jim
Agree... there appear to be multiple gremlins at play here. And realize that I am only guessing at what is causing my specific situation given the evidence at hand. My brakes will literally lock up if parked hot & wet for a week. Put it in gear, and rev to 1500 rpm to break them free. Then thump thump thump for a week thereafter. And of course the dealer told me they could find nothing wrong - pistons retract, calipers were moving freely on the carrier, etc. So given the premature wearout of the inner pads on both sides, I can only conclude that they were not aware of, or ignored the TSB.
Steve
Though I would weigh-in on my least favorite topic - Outback brakes! My '02 Bean went through two sets of front rotors and pads in the first 25k. Benefiting from help on this board and my own checking, it was clear that the dealer was over-torquing the lug nuts by 40-60 lbs! I have not had a hint of pulsation in the last 30k because I always check after the car goes in for service and re-torque as needed.
Anyway, I just had my 55k oil change and the dealer was good enough to "inform" me that my pads were at 80% wear and that I should have them replaced for $520.00 (included machining the rotors). :surprise:
I told them I would wait until the 60k service. I checked TireRack and they have NEW Brembo front rotors for $66 each! Pads are about $40 a set. I doubt I even need the rotors machined at all, but I thought this quote was absolutely ridiculous! Needless to say I have found a good local mechanic to do all my work from now on! I replaced my rear rotors previously, and I know it is a one-hour job for an amateur without a proper lift!
Question - TireRack also sells Frozen Rotors by Diversified Cryogenics at $115 each. Anyone had any experience with these? Are they worth the extra $50 each?
Thanks!
Matt
Matt
I always have them write on the service order to hand tighten to 70 ft-lbs when it goes in, and my Craftsman Microtork wrench is readily at hand to check!
Note to all: remember to dial these units back to zero when not in use, otherwise the accuracy suffers.
Steve
I got one from Sears for about $40, the type that sort of "pops" when you reach the torque specified. Then get one ratchet the size of the lugs (21mm? I think?). Takes about 1 minute per wheel, is all.
-juice
* Said sarcastically, but sometimes people are sure they know which wire is which only to have to backwards, be safe and check all.
Did not go with the MXV4s on the Subaru. The RE-950s have much better ratings on Tire Rack in just about all areas and are significantly cheaper -- A little over $400 at Costco, compared with $535 for the MXV4s (after the $60 rebate).
--K9Leader
2000 OBW Ltd., 72K (my daily driver)
1994 Lincoln Mark VIII, 104k (fun car)
1998 Toyota Sienna, 115K (family hauler)
1993 Volvo 940, 104K (safe wheels for the kid)
2004 Mazda 6s, 15K (wife's company car)
Bring your own torque wrench and re-torque them on the lot. In plain sight. In front of possible new customers. Be sure to tell anyone that asks exactly why you have to re-torque your own lug nuts.
There are dealerships and there are stealerships....
Larry
I have a reversible (19 mm X 21 mm) Snap-On impact socket and inadvertently used the wrong side one time as I was rotating my tires. As I removed the first lug nut using my impact wrench, I realized something wasn't right. I checked and found that I had used the 21 mm side. The nut was stuck into the socket, but I was finally able to remove it. The corners of that nut were slightly rounded off, but I have never had a problem with it since. I did, however, mark the 19mm side of the socket with brightly colored paint to (hopefully) keep that from happening again.
Live and learn.
Len
Matt
-juice
I would really like bigger brakes... has anyone replaced the rotors with bigger ones yet on the 05 OB? Would I need different calipers too? I find the brakes on the highway to be insufficient...sometimes scary. :surprise: