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Comments
Thanks.
Most people who have looked at different warranties carefully recomment getting the Honda warranty, not an "aftermarket" one.
The above web site belongs to our own Shaganasty. It contains some dealers who sell the HCW for about $900. He says at his site that if you e-mail him he will update the list for you. He also has a check list for when you go to pick up your car.
In addition if you look back on the posts you will find a number of dealers listed for the HCW. You may have to buy it from out of state but that is not a problem.
I mistakenly bought a non HCW and then got a copy of the HCW. I saw the HCW was much better and covered more things with fewer "fine print areas". The Honda dealers will also honor it right away. So I took it back and got the HCW.
If you go for the non HCW the dealers love to sell you because they make more, you will most probably not get a warranty as good as the HCW.
Divide the number of miles since the last fillup by the number of gallons to get the miles per gallon.
Keep track of this over a few tankfuls.
Now, on each fillup, reset the trip odometer. Say you've calculated that you have recently been getting 20 miles per gallon. Since you have a 20 gallon tank, you know you will run out of gas when your trip odometer reaches around 400. Play it safe and fill up around 350 or so.
This method should be failsafe as long as your odometer is working, and it doesn't depend on any lights or gauges. If your driving habits change (A/C usage, extreme cold, lots of stop-n-go traffic), you may want to play it a bit more conservatively.
I misunderstood what you were asking. Several days ago a joker named Sam was on the boards spreading BS about the Oddysey and the Nissan and using CR as his back-up. I thought you were referring to that. My thoughts about the all vans that everyone argues about in hers are basically..take everything you know about Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, and Ford as manufacturer's, and anything other than the Toyota, or the Honda seems like a bad choice. Companys that build crummy cars and trucks build crummy vans. There's no mystery involved.
Meanwhile, although we love our 99 GC SE, I recommended the Odyssey to my sister and brother in law who plan to get a 2001 Odyssey this summer after looking at all minivans at the big Auto Show last month.
I had a bad experience with Grand Honda in Elmhurst this morning as they tried to sell me an Ody DX with key less remote, roof rack, and security system for $28,600. This was a price for me to order it... And when I said that this was way too high for me he wanted me to give him a check made out to them for $2,500 in order for me to find out if they would accept my counter offer. This was needed to be sure I was serious about buying the van. Salesman was Howard Chung. I was seriously out-of-there
Apart from that I'm still interested in the Ody as it does seem like a great van, but I find the information on reliability to be somewhat lacking. CR just doesn't give enough detail for me although I do find it helpful. I just went on the NHTSA web site to see how many complaints there were on the Ody http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/compmmy1.cfm
I was surprised to find 116 records for the 2000 Ody (must type Honda truck, Odyssey, 2000) and not all were about the doors. Lots of trany problems and strange stuff like the power seat moving on its own...
I figured the Dodge Caravan will have many more. But the Caravan only had 44 (Dodge truck, caravan, 2000) and the Grand Caravan another 23. These were also substantial problems (trans) mixed in with some simple ones. (One said they had 3 new transmissions in the first 9 months of ownership). I also noticed many were repeated which really messes up the stats...
I really liked caviller's (#1064) information about the reliability and the problems of just counting the number of complaints but how does Jack Gillis' Ultimate Car Book 2000 get their data? Are they polling people? Do they talk with the dealerships? Do they use a weighting system or is every complain just counted. It seems to be hard to say which van has more "serious" problems. Seems like it should be simple but then look how the election turned out. I figure if you talk with a honda/caravan mechanic you would get some good info.
IMHO Honda builds reliable cars but the Ody isn't quite up to the civic/accord quality and I'm not talking just about doors. It seems this van was much more complicated that 96-98 model (those were amazingly trouble free) I apologize for the long posting. Here are a few summaries that I cut from the NHTSA site that some of you might find interesting.
MY WIFE EXPERIENCED A CASTROPHIC FAILURE OF THE RIGHT FRONT SUSSPENSION. THE WHEEL BUCKELED UNDER THE CAR AFTER THE SUSPENSION BROKE. SHE WAS TRAVELING AT 30M
WHEN BACKING UP HILL, WILL INTERMITTENTLY HEAR A SINGLE, LOUD CLUNK FROM TRANSMISSION. IT GETS WORSE WITH TIME. CURRENTLY, HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN IT ORIGINAL
DASH LIGHTS FAIL TO ILLUMINATE DASH PANEL
THE SEAT-BACK OF THE DRIVER SEAT WILL START TILTING BACK AUTOMACTICLY. IT HAPPENED ALL WHEN THE KEY IS IN THE OFF POSITION. WHEN THIS HAPPENED, THE DRIVER SEAT
INTERMITTENTLY POWER-OPERATED SEAT WILL RECLINE ON ITS OWN, SQUEEZING THE REAR OCCUPANT'S LEGS. DEALER HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM.
POWER SEAT BUTTON MALFUNCTIONED, CAUSING SEAT TO RECLINE ONTO THE REAR PASSENGER.
HUSBAND TAPPED WINDOWSHIELD FROM THE INSIDE OF CAR TO KILL SMALL BUG AND WINDSHIELD CRACKED ON THE OUTSIDE. WINDSHIELD IS INDENTED ON THE OUTSIDE. THE INSIDE HA
WHILE TRAVELING 45MPH vehicle BECAME STUCK AT FULL THROTTLE. DRIVER WAS ABLE TO SLOW DOWN & STOP BY PUTTING VEHICLE INTO PARK. CONSUMER HAD VEHICLE TOWED TO
REAR SEAT BELT ON DRIVER'S SIDE, GOT CAUGHT AND WOULD NOT RELEASE. MY SON WAS STUCK IN SEATBELT AND EVERYTIME HE MOVED, IT TIGHTENED. IT WAS SO TIGHT AROUND H
Even of CS claims the '99 Odyssey is unreliable as a consumer we should give it credibility since they don't get money from advertisers!!!
I understand that; thanks. I have no problem with someone attacking my views. Personal attacks are another matter (tho once someone gets into those it's usually because they have nothing else to say).
I looked at the complaints for several other vans as well. This seems like a very eclectic collection. Do you know where these come from ?
A truly fair report would be to ask only owners who have both vehicles, to minimize as much bias. Or, to ask someone from another planet who has no knowledge of the brand:reputation correlation.
Just like reported crimes, a purse-snatching may go unrecorded in a poor neighborhood, but it could be a statistic and a big news item in a more affluent area.
Second, I thought I should share my experience. I have test driven a '99 Ody that had 97,000 miles on it and it ran like new. Everything including the doors (no power doors) functioned like new. I have test driven Sienna, Nissan and Dodge. They all were good, but Ody is for my family's life style. I have put down a deposit for '01 SS EX and expect it in March. I'm trading my '98 Expedition for it.
Jack Gillis' Ultimate Car Book derives their Complaint Index from data compiled by the Center for Auto Safety and the NHTSA (if memory serves correctly). I expect the 2001 edition within a week or two, I will update the forum when I get it.
Gfc4us-
Please post the link showing JD Power's dependability data broken down by model. I was under the impression such data was only available to full subscribers (thousands of dollars). Perhaps you meant the Initial Quality survey? If so, this has little to do with long term reliability. I'd also be interested to know if you have a statistical correlation between reliability and the cost of an extended warranty, or the percentage of purchasers in online forums. If so, please post it as a basis of your comments.
Based on information presented, it seems likely that Sienna is probably the most reliable minivan, and Windstar may be the least reliable. Everything else is probably in the middle, and too tough to make a comparison, especially for current model year vehicles. Of course, the difference from top to bottom may not be all that great in absolute terms. Even CR acknowledges this. Unless reliability is by far your main priority in a vehicle purchase, these differences may not be a big deal. If you have data showing otherwise, you're welcome to add it. For those who prefer anecdotal data, I suggest browsing through reviews at http://www.carreview.com/reviews/vans_minivans/ and http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-Vans_Minivans . Incidentally, the 2000 Odyssey is currently the top rated van among reviewers at both sites. Not enough 2001 reviews are in as of yet.
Grplavloff has added quite a bit to this discussion, including some of the data you quoted improperly in your previous post. In addition, I believe grplavloff is in the process of purchasing a van, and not a Honda owner or dealer.
Do you subscribe to CR? Do you know where they get their funding? Do you know how they derive their reliability ratings? If not, I suggest you purchase the April 2001 edition when it hits the shelves. You might also scroll back in this archive to learn some details about their methodology.
Nowhere in my post did I say that Honda builds trucks. You should learn to read for content in case you ever wanted to go to college.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
The display is awful bright. Can it be dimmed?
And then again, I think even dimmed sometimes I would rather not have it one at all. Can it be turned off/blanked out?
Here `tis. You do have to enter the models you want to look at. "Mid-term" and "long-term" reliability ratings appear below "initial." Note that the interim data is available for manufacture years through 1999; it's not yet available for 2000.
"I'd also be interested to know if you have a statistical correlation between reliability and the cost of an extended warranty, "
I can't give you that. But I thought that it was interesting that the salesmen at 2 Honda dealers, a Chrysler dealer, and a Dodge dealer pushed extended warranties while the salesman at both Toyota dealers that I visited told me not to bother with them, after I brought up the issue. I'm not to sure what to make of it; perhaps it's just a more subtle sales pitch than I am used to (at least that is what my Inner Cynical voice tells me :-).
http://www.jdpower.com/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwards.jsp
I dunno, that seems a heck of a stretch to me. And based on what I see in the forums here - ALL of them - I don't see any evidence that ANY manufacturer has an adequate supply of "objective" owners.
grplavloff, thanks for the JD Powers link. I never see them (or the manufacturers) emphasizing long term reliability. Any new car should rate pretty highly in initial satisfaction, imho.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Look at the warranty as an insurance policy. Would you want to drive your Ody for a bunch of years with no comprehensive damage insurance? The cost is cheap, maybe $100 per year. It covers broken windshields, etc. When that rock whacks the windshield, and it costs $300 to replace, the comp insurance makes a lot of sense. But what if you never have a claim?
That's what insurance is--it spreads the costs over the whole spectrum of buyers. Some benefit, some break even, some never have claims that come near their cost of the premiums.
So, on the Ody, if by some bad luck your tranny lunches out at 75,000 miles, you can either pay about $2500 for a new one, or claim it on your warranty (insurance policy).
Your tolerance for risk should be the determining factor. If you can afford to risk the large claim, then "go bare" and don't buy the extended warranty. If you would be a hurtin' puppy if you get hit for a $2500 repair, then you should seriously consider an extended warranty to cover that risk.
As for the Toyota saleman- maybe he had already made his quota for the month?
So here's the next question. How does a manufacturer back up their product? Despite my vexing EX door problems, Honda (dealer and Zone Office) have gone out of their way to help and follow up w/ me. They also extended my warranty to 5/50. I think they have confidence in their product, and I have seen them go out of their way to help. (of course I had to go out of MY way to bring my van in 4 times). But I will say, problems were not show stoppers (like tranny might be) and I was able to delay one of the visits to coincide w/ oil change and inspection another time; making the best of the situation.
MTSANG: I have Michelin tires. I am not motoring up unpaved, unplowed roads with 4WD vehicles skidding at the base of the mountain. However, I think TCS gives me the edge on slippery surfaces -for example, I made it further up my sloped driveway with my TCS Ody than my front-wheel drive (but no TCS) sedan.
Really?? Where did you find this information? Please define "almost every" as a percentage of Ody owners.
I think you're full of it. But, if you can show me that this statement is indeed true, I will eat my humble pie.
Dave
There were two, one each at separate dealerships. Both seemed anxious to sell cars, vans,ANYTHING. Except insurance. Actually, it's the financial guys - at least at these dealerships - who sell the extended warranties. But both salesmen told me ahead of time not to bother. I did it anyway: I got a quote for Toyota Corp extended warranty on the net and took it in with me. The dealership matched it, which meant that it ended up selling it to me for close to 30% less than it originally quoted me. The dealership also matched (well, found a bank that agreed to match) the interest rate offered to me by e-loan, thus saving me a fair amount on that as well: I simply brought in a copy of the email that e-loan sent to me. An hour or so of work up front surfing the web avoided a lot of pain-in-the-butt negotiating time with the dealer.
I am firmly convinced that present-day cars are a heck of a lot more reliable than their predecessors 20 years ago. At the same time they are a heck of a lot more complicated. I was looking at Honda's and Toyota's minivan brochures and started thinking about how much more is in a base car model nowadays than there was in my 1974 Dodge Dart which I bought new for apx. $3200. Looking at the Sienna CE, the bottom-of-the-line model, I saw the following standard items that were either options on my Dart or simply were not available: automatic transmission; power steering; disk brakes (they were one of three options I bought on my Dart); auto-off headlamps; daytime running lights; foldaway mirrors (my Dart had one mirror that you adjusted by pushing/pulling on it); intermittent wipers; rear window defroster; AC & multizone heating/cooling; airbags; head restraints; tachometer; warning lights; tilt steering wheel; sattelite audio controls; independent front seats; overhead console; vanity mirrors; power outlets; clock; ABS; rear seatbelts; remote fuel-filler door releases; radio/CD combination (an AM radio was an option...).
The next time one of you come across an older (50's through 70's) car, take a look at what was typically in front of the driver in controls and instruments. The car(s) will appear bare to you.
If my mileage doesn't improve, an average year of driving will cost me about $400 more than those who are getting high teens mpg. Obviously, my dealer is going to claim that "driver variation" is producing my low mpg, and while mine is low, it is within their range. I'm still thinking about squaking enough to make them test the compression. I must say that I am dissapointed. If I knew of this problem, and the average reliability (vice accord reliability) that I have experience from Honda in the past, I probalby would have bought something else.
One last point - the gas tank gauge & warning light is purely a design flaw. Somebody screwed up. Honda should fix it for free.
They list features as:
auto on/off
manual defeat switch
adjustable bass volume
adjustable low pass filter
max power output 80W
normal power output 40W
frequency response 20-400 Hz
distortion 0.5%
they have the list price at $299.00 for the subwoofer and attachment kit.
-Trevor
http://www.usatoday.com/money/consumer/autos/mauto695.htm
Odyssey's relatively low center of mass and superior handling/braking should help avoid rollovers compared to many SUVs. Honda also touts it's "4-ring shell" design to protect passengers if you are in a rollover. Would be nice to see some dynamic rollover testing for verification. I believe the NHTSA is currently working on such a test, but it may be a couple years before anything happens.
See this link.....
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96026.htm
(the worst off-set results)
They have only positive things to say about it. No negative comments For example best designed, third seat, safety, "V-6 engine provides faster acceleration than competing vans, and its responsive steering lets it corner almost as well as a sedan--very unusual in such a big vehicle."
They do say that if you are looking for a deal you might consider the Ford Windstar LX, when you buy it for $300 over dealer cost and with the $1,000 rebate you can get it for $1,300 less then the Odyssey LX.
"Though most mini vans ride well,the Odyssey's independent rear suspension, rare among mini vans, produces an especially smooth highway ride. And in a segment where safety matters, the Odyssey gets five stars in all government crash tests."