I am just curious why the V8 would have that much better gas mileage than the T6 (other than the 4 sp transmission issue).
Anyway, we bought a T6 about 2 months ago and we are very pleased with our decision (the other choice was MDX - looks and safety features were a bigger factor than gas mileage for us. MDX has a great engine but its look is definitely dated and due for a redesign -- next yr I think). BTW, the T5 is fine but seemed to work hard on hills and we decided against it as there are lots of hills where we live. I think the T6 is about 1 sec quicker in 0-60 than the T5 and for us that was a factor.
But my wife has now reconfigured the car to keep the four year old away from the 6 year old. Now the baby (in a britax roundabout) goes in the middle, with britax boosters on either side. as a result, we now use neither the integrated booster in the middle, nor the latch attachments on the outboard seats. but everyone seems to be happy. of course, good luck getting to the 3rd row with a roundabout in the middle of the 2nd row. fortunately, it's rarely used.
Gee, you were allowed to put a link to another car site in your post. I tried that once to answer a question and had my message deleted.
The referenced review is rather fanciful. Either the 2.5T tested was defective or the Canadian version is different or it actually had a diesel and the reviewer didn't know it! The forums are full of first-hand reports from mountain areas that the 2.5T has plently of power. I, for one, frequently travel over passes, on highway truck routes requiring passing, and off-road with no trouble at all. We even tow a small travel trailer (about 2000 pounds) on many trips and the 2.5T works like a champ. The T6 certainly has more "punch" at highway speeds but the 2.5T is no dog and can hold its own. Plus, the better gas mileage and longer range on a tank are advantages.
Thanks for sharing. I'll take your comments into consideration at the dealership. Btw, the March 2004 issue of CR gave the XC90 a poor reliability rating. Any reasons for concern? Having had very good experiences with Honda Accords and an Infiniti G35, reliability is a high on the list.
As for the external link, they haven't spotted iyet or the url decoration hid it.
The CU reliability mark has been discussed in many forums. A summary of the objective comments:
1. CU's reliability rating is generally misunderstood by readers. It is not a subjective rating like most. Rather, it is a percentage of reported defects per 100 owners compared to an "average car." The percentage ranges are quite small. Thus, the XC90 does pretty well in individual defect categories but not as well as the "average car" and so gets a poor predicted reliability mark.
2. The XC90's overall rating is "Very Good," 17th out of 28 mid-size SUVs. This rating is heavily influenced by reliability and tested fuel economy. Since they reviewed a T6, fuel economy was not that great. In any case the overall rating is rather subjective as it is based on assumed priorities.
3. The data for the XC90 rating was from late 2003, early in the production, and was less than 300 respondents. The minimum CU uses is 100. With such a small sample, a few erroneous reports can shift the rating.
4. The car surveys are sent to CU readers and have little quality control. It's up to the respondent to decide what is a significant problem to them. There is no way of knowing how much the data were influenced by minor problems such as tarnished lugnuts, misadjusted audio systems, abused keyfobs, etc.
5. New survey data are being gathered for release later this year or next year. We will have to wait and see what the second-year reports say.
6. There were some early problems with the XC90, as expected with a new car. Some of the annoying ones (transmission shift delay, turbo whine) involved the T6. Few 2.5T owners have reported significant problems in the forums. All have been fixed.
7. It would seem that CU's reliability ratings are more pertinent to used cars than first-year models. Perhaps a better indicator is "Would you buy that car again?" The XC90 is among the 33 "Most Satisfying" cars and the Volvo brand ranked 8th out of 33 in "Dealer satisfaction."
Take CU's reliability rating with a BIG grain of salt and interpret it carefully.
Where is it that they say they are planning a 6 sp transmission? I don't see that in any of the press releases posted. Also, what's Yamaha's reliability rating when it comes to engines? Who'll make the tranny? $42+ K is alot to gamble with. I like the Volvo, but don't like trouble. Our 98 Passat has soured me considerably. It's a nice car, but I've had too many electrical problems, not to mention lack of good build integrity (roof liner trim falling down)
According to the reports, the Yahmaha V8 will be built in Japan, so one would think that reliability has the potential to be very good. By the way, I know that Yamaha produced the V6 and V8 engines used in the old Ford Taurus SHO; in what other applications were/are Yamaha engines used?
The tranny will be an Aisin Warner unit I believe. Since Volvo has just publicly acknowledged the V8 I'm not surprised that you haven't found any press releases about the tranny. i'm sure Volvo doesn't want to sabotage T6 sales.
I've had my XC90 for about a year and a half, and it's been great. Now I have 5 month old twins, and a 5 year old and the car seat thing is a nightmare. The infant seats are so big that you can't move the 2nd row seats forward an inch. My 5 year old often has friends come over, so we put them in the 3rd row. I'm using booster seats back there, and his legs are smooshed into the back of the 2nd row. And he's TINY! But I am supposed to use a car seat in the 3rd row, right? Anyone have any suggestions????
1)What kind of sales tax and other taxes do you pay on the car through this program? How does it compare to the US?
2)When do you actually pay for the car? If I were to finance, would the payments start once the car is delivered, or when I sign the agreement? Or is it a cash-only payment program, and if so, when do I have to foot the bill?
3)If I want to pick up my car, say, 4 months after I sign, is that possible?
4)Lastly, does anyone know if the travel deal (free tickets and one night hotel stay) will continue in 2005? The website says it's over Dec. 31, 2004. If it doesn't continue, would it be possible to buy the car in December and not pick it up until next April? Anyone know?
1. You pay exactly the same taxes and registration fees, as you would with the "normal" purchase, but from the lesser purchase price, so you have about 10% of savings here as well (proportional to the sales price). 2. You have to pay in full no later than 30 days prior to the delivery date. If you finance, your finance contract will commence at the same time - 30 days prior to the delivery. 3. Yes it is possible, if there is a quota for the OSD available. Normal lead time is 12 - 16 weeks. 4. More likely - yes. This deal was available for 3 - 4 years already, and there is no indications that it's going to end. However, 4 years ago, in March of 2000 I have gotten only one ticket and a free night. It has changed to two tickets in April of 2000, if I am not mistaken.
I am a very unhappy owner of the xc90. I have 25,000 mi on my T-6. It is not very good in the snow(i live in the northeast). The turbo hesitates all too often for too long. The seating is less than kid friendly or adult friendly for that matter. I am on my third set of tires!!! Shocks, wheelbearings and an axle bolt are some of the most recent troubles!!!
just a word of warning. I purchased an xc90 and have been in service shop way too many times and I am now trying to get Volvo to buy my vehicle back. Don't let Volvo put off fixing anything. I was told I hit a pot hole and that was the reason for my tires wearing prematurely. Two sets of tires and now I have over the 18000 mile limit for lemon law in NJ. Check with your Consumer Affairs Division and find out what mileage limit and time limit you have to address problems.
Well, Brian, I live in the northwest snow zone and the XC90 is great--with the proper tires. Perhaps you are trying to use the stock Michelins which are known to be weak in snow. Why are the tires being replaced every 10,000 (or whatever) miles? That is abnormal and may indicate an alignment problem or something else. As for the hesitation, that is the transmission programming, not the turbo; your dealer should have had a software update for it. Can't comment on the shocks and bearings but the axle bolt is a simple fix that has been around for about a year. Ask the right questions and I'm sure many people here can help you.
I would hope that most of the "bugs" of the XC90 have already been worked out in the 2003 and 2004 models and will not be reintroduced in 2005 by the addition of a new V8 engine / transmission, especially one made by Yamaha.
As for the T6 engine, unless they price the V8 quite a bit higher than the T6, I really can't see anyone buying a T6 that gets WORSE gas mileage than a V8 (at least BMW's new X5 version) and barely performs any better than the standard Volvo 2.5 engine. And I don't think Volvo has much, if any, room to price the V8 higher than the current T6. So, IMO, the T6, which has widely been criticized as a mismatched engine for an SUV application, will soon be history.
Look for the T6 to be dropped after the V8 intro, maybe. Put it this way, look for a new T6 in 2 yrs. Volvo is working on a smaller I6 that will work with the new trannys that are coming out. That engine will supplant the 2.5T 5 cyl for SUV duty. The V8 will be priced higher than the T6, no doubt about it. Look for the V8 to be part of a limited issue XC90 Premier edition.
Yes I thought the 05 would be the safest bet. Reading through all the experiences that people have had does not give me the greatest feeling of confidence for the 04.
Thanks for your response. One (or two!) more questions:
What's your experience with placing OSD orders for the XC90 - is the quota high enough not to have problems, or do you have to contact multiple dealerships to find an open slot?
Also, if I were to place an order this fall/winter (for pickup next spring, probably) - what year car would I be getting? I thought I read that the new year models are released in May. So pickup in March/April would be a 2004? Is this correct?
1. The quota is not dealer driven. Volvo allocates some number of units for the OSD for each year. Since the total OSD volume is small - around 2000 units (all models together), I do not think that there would be any problems with placing the OSD. At least I've done it twice and did not have any problems with it. The dealer might not know, and might want to sell a car from their stock, instead of OSD, then it that case you can call directly to Volvo of NA and verify the availability.
2. The model year change over is in September - October, so if you order your car for the Spring 2005 delivery it would a 2005 model for sure. You can get 2005 model in October - November 2004.
OSD, Early on there were limits on the XC90 for OSD. Now you should have no problem ordering one. Rule of thumb is 3 months prior to your anticipated travel date.
I heard from the dealer that the $1806 rebate is not available if you go with a lease with VFNA (Money Factor .00187; Resid. 55%), but you can still lease with someone like Chase and get the $2000 lease cash, although the MF will be slightly higher.
Okay so I have a few concerns in purchasing a 2004 xc90. My wife and I went and test drove the 5 and 6 cylinder. The 6 was much more responsive and we are leaning in that direction. However, to my questions.
1. How long has volvo been making the v6 engine?
2. Is it going to be completely replaced by the v8?
3. Have there been any issues with the v6 other than poor gas mileage?
4. I like the 5 cylinder and I know that volvo has been making that engine since the early 90's, but I am concerned that it will not be able to handle the xc90 long term being that the xc90 has 800 pounds on the station wagon that the engine has been standard in for years. Does anyone else have this concern?
5. The dealer said to me that it wasn't for sure yet on the arrival of the v8 for 05. Anyone know the truth to this?
I would buy this thing tomorrow, if I could get past the concerns with the engines. If volvo hasn't made the v6 all that long, and it is going to be replaced, then why would anyone buy the v6 as mechanics would never see it in the shop being that there are so few of them on the road.
any other advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
The T6 engine has been around for quite a while - being used in the S80 for several years. So even if Volvo phases it out of the XC90 line-up (likely), I wouldn't worry about mechanics forgetting how to work on one. On the other hand, the resale value may drop even more quickly if it gets phased out.
I stopped by the local Volvo dealership and their word on the V8 is that it is absolutely coming in the 2005 model year, they Just couldn't give me a month yet. The sales manager, who is a bit of a car enthusiast, told me that he thinks it will be well worth the wait. The combination of the extra power and 6 speed automatic should make it much more responsive than the T6, and probably more fuel efficient as well.
By the way, he mentioned they had two XC90 T6's come in for turbo replacements in the last month. One was covered under warranty, but Volvo NA is balking at covering the other one because it came in 2+ quarts low on oil and had a non-Volvo approved trailer hitch. When I asked the cost if not covered, the reply was "don't ask".
I'm gald I've decided to wait for the 2005 models, the XC90 V8 will be on the top of my must drive list. As far as the 2.5, I think it can handle "light duty" just fine. But if you are in need of a heavier duty SUV (hills/mountains, off road, boat towing, or just a lot of driving with a full load of people and cargo), you should probably look elsewhere. Our neighbor that has a 2.5 traded a V70 T5 and they have no complaints, other than getting to and from their ski house with 4-5 passengers. They do not do any offroading or boat hauling. I think we could get by with a 2.5, but if the V8 isn't too much more expensive, would likely go in that direction.
We have the T6 and love it. We don't tow anything with it, because I believe that towing with a FWD-based vehicle is a recipe for disaster.
We live in Colorado and the turbos are wonderful. At this altitude, normally-aspirated engines suffer from a 20% loss of horsepower. The turbos don't.
We also have a 302HP Lincoln Aviator (no complaints). While the Aviator is a towing machine, the T6 is equally responsive in Denver and even more so in the mountains - thanks to the forced induction of the turbos.
While the V8 and 6-speed transmission are great, I suspect it will be at least a $5K premium as they move the XC90 upmarket against the V8 X5 and ML.
Is the V8 the same as the one going into the new Land Rover LR3 (Discovery?)
Thank you for your reply! I need to get an SUV soon and had just decided on the T6 when I heard of the V8 but have concern about the bugs of any new model - but the last volvo I got which I still drive went obsolete about 3 months later so I definitely do not want to get a T6 if they are going to significantly remodel it. I go over serious mountain ranges regularly so am not that interested in the 2.5 - I'd rather not pay a fortune for the coming V8 but will if it means avoiding a T6 model that is going out. Would you recommend the V8? I usually keep a car for at least 5 years.
Thanks! It sounds like-from both you and volvomax that the V8 may be worth waiting and paying for in terms of lasting for several years -I do not want to get another car that is about to stop production.
coachhomer The I6 engine predates the I5 engine. The two are related to one another. Volvo makes 4,5, and 6 cyl engines off the same basic design. All in all the I6 has been a very successful design. The limiting factor in the driveline is the transmission. It can't take the full output of the engine. So the engine output is limited in 1st and 2nd gears. As for the I5's ability to handle the XC90's weight, don't worry. Volvo has lots of experience w/ small engines moving large cars. The 240's had 4 cyl engines from 90-113 hp moving 3300 lb cars. These engines run forever,almost. Volvo won't say if the V8 will totally replace the T6. Given the suspected price point for the V8 I doubt it. the V8 is scheduled to debut in the first quarter of 2005. The engine is NOT shared w/ Land Rover or any other Ford entity. If you don't mind spending over 50k, and probably not being able to get a "deal" I think the V8 is going to be superb. Otherwise, I have no problem recommending the T6.
This is my speculation, so take it for what it's worth.
(1) My guess is that the V8 engine will be no more, or marginally more expensive for Vovlo to produce (or buy) than the T6 engine. A couple more cylinders, a few more pounds of steel in the engine block, but less two turbochargers and other related attachments. The 6-speed transmission may be more than the 4-speed, but overall, I would be very surprised if the total manufacturing/procurement cost to Volvo would be more than $500-$1,000 more than the the current T6 engine. It's not as though Volvo is buying a limited production engine from AMG or Motorsport. The Yamaha V8 is no more intrinsically complex than the T6, it's just better in an SUV application.
(2) If Volvo wants to attach a bunch of other goodies to the V8 engine offering and price it at $50k, I think they will run into market resistance. I'm just one buyer, but the 2.5 looks good to me at $36-$37k (current prices with incentives), the V8 with a few other extras at $42k+/-. (That's about $3,000 more than I could purchase a MDX w/ Navigation for today). I do not believe the XC90 will have wide market appeal as a $50k vehicle simply with a V8 engine and 6-speed transmission. There is just too much good competition well below that price.
(3) I think the 2.5 is the more likely survivor than the T6. In basic form, it provides Vovlo with a competitive entry price, gets decent mileage, and has enough power for many buyers. The T6, especially with its 4 speed transmission, is a flawed product. Less power than the V8, worse mileage, and not that much less expensive, if at all. Worst of all worlds in a three engine line-up. And Volvo barely sells enough XC90's to support a two engine line-up. Frankly, I don't think it would be a bad idea for them to pick one engine (V8) and just run with it. Works for the Pilot/MDX, GX470, and other higher volume SUVs. Volvo isn't Porsche.
Like I said, speculation form a prospective buyer, so take it for what it's worth.
I am in a position where I have to make a buying decision pretty soon, The new ML is only out in 06 and Acura MDX is is also coming out with a redesign. This means that for "Now" Volvo XC90 has the most up to date look in the SUV world I think it looks great and the mileage of the 2.5 is great aswell. My question is does Volvo correct thier technical problems as they build thier cars or do they waite until the next year to put in to effect all the fixes. I dont think I will be able to wait till the O5 based on the fact that my trade in vehicle is getting more and more milage and losing its value as a down payment for the XC90. Any insight would be welcome
habitat1: " As far as the 2.5, I think it can handle "light duty" just fine. But if you are in need of a heavier duty SUV (hills/mountains, off road, boat towing, or just a lot of driving with a full load of people and cargo), you should probably look elsewhere."
We drive the 2.5T in the mountains, off-road, tow a 2000# trailer, and run up to the ski areas frequently with no problems. It has plently of power and seems to be a fine engine. More power would just be wasteful, IMHO.
Volvo is constantly updating their products. Sometimes to correct shortcomings, other times they just found a better way of doing things. 2005's will be out in October
I think Volvo can price a V8-equipped XC90 at around $50k, with high-end options as standard equipment.
There's plenty of market precedent and apparent buyers at that price point. A well-equipped Lexus GX470 is over $50k, and it's basically a much plusher 4runner with the V8 option and some more options. The Mercedes ML500 is around $50k, and the next-gen M-class will probably have a price increase. A well-equipped V8-powered Touareg can top $50k as well.
The 2.5T and T6-replacement XC90's can compete in the $40's with the MDX, RX330, etc. as they are doing today (and successfully, too). The XC90 competes well in both ranges with its blend of Volvo safety and up-to-date features.
While I'd love to buy a well-equipped V8 XC90 in the mid-$40's, I highly doubt that'll happen.
I'm considering either the XC90 purchased through the military plan at a very good price(not sure which engine yet) and the Toyota 4Runner. I've read many negative comments here about the XC90 and am especially concerned about the poor reliability rating by Consumer Report. I'm also concerned about the addition of an 8 cyl engine making the T6 lower in resale. I know that the XC90 is an extremely safe vehicle, but I don't want to be going to the dealer every week for small things. I currently own a 2002 4Runner SR5 and have had no problems with it after about 25,000 miles. Consumer Report rates the 4Runner very highly in all categories. Can I get some input from you all to help me make a decision? I need to make a decision very soon. Thanks.
I can get the rebate until today (DC area) on the 2.5T so long as I don't take another incentive (e.g., $2000 lease cash, if leasing from anyone other than VFNA). Don't have any information about whether the June incentives will also be offered in July. My guess is that the answer is out there, but that dealers are being closed lipped since they want to make as many sales/leases as possible in June. I also heard from dealers that the residuals are going to change for the worse in July since it is past the half year mark, although I have no independent confirmation of this. My guess is that all of this is marketing ploy to try to boost the June numbers as much as possible and that July will have the same offers since dealers will need to offer incentives to clear out their inventory before the 05 models arrive in September.
I'm trying to decide between the T6 and 2.5AWD, and I've read tons of messages debating the two - there seems to be no consensus. However, we will definitely be getting the 7 passenger vehicle. I'm wondering if those who are happy with their 2.5s have the 7 seats, as that option adds a lot of weight. Those with 7 seats - what's your take on this?
Also, I'm seriously looking into the OSD program, and I emailed the overseas people and she said the 2005 OSD prices come out in the next few weeks. I called my local dealer last week and he said they're the same as the 2004 prices. Does anyone know what's accurate?
I'm planning on ordering a 2.5T AWD pretty dressed up. Climate,Nav,Premium Pack,18" Whls, Prem Sound,wood steer wheel, Bi-Xenon,Reverse warning. Any comments on any +/- on these options? I'm solid on 2.5T AWD after several test drives.
Apparently, too late to hit 04 model. Any ideas if there's any mod's on 05 vs 04? Also, anticipated 05 delivery?
Dealer says things move faster when sold rather than dealer stock. This is X-Plan purchase. Looks like X-Plan pricing is a decent advantage?
I just recently purchased a T6 through the military sales program and am awaiting delivery. So far the experience has gone very well. I can give you more feedback once I take delivery. I see a lot of negative feedback on the T6 but am certain that I made the right choice. The gas mileage difference between the two is like 4 MPGs and is about the same as my S70 gets now. My minivan gets maybe 21 if I am lucky but hangs around 18 in the city. I've only driven a T6 once so I can't say much about the 4 speed, but from I remember it was not an issue, but then again I did not drive a 2.5T either. As far as Volvo v.s. a Toyota, one of the reasons I went with the Volvo was that I felt that I could get a better deal on a great vehicle with Volvo. Couldn't find the same savings on a Toyota.
1. The Volvo site says delivery is covered from port to your dealer. This seems to indicate there is no normal ~$700 trucking charge. Correct or not? 2. Does the round trip ticket cover flying into Sweden and out of another city on the continent? 3. Time line: Order and pick up ~3 months later. After drop off receive vehicle at dealer? Total ~5 months after placing order before receiving vehicle. 4. I assume vehicle must be picked up before July or wait until August-September for model changeover. And if it is picked up in July you will be driving last years model when it finally reaches the US? Thanks
Thanks for your input. Yes, I've seen many negative comments, as well. It's confusing to say the least. I looked at Consumer Reports and most, if not all, of the Volvos don't rate as highly as the Toyotas. I really like the body styling of the XC90 and the safety aspect of Volvos in general. But, I'm also looking at reliability and cost of ownership/repairs. The military price also is really good.
Another thing is that I want a vehicle that I don't necessarily have to "baby". In that I mean I would like to be able to hitch a trailer up the the SUV and maybe take a load to the land fill. I can't see myself doing that with the XC90 T6 or moving furniture for my daughter around. It seems to me that the T6 would be too high-end and nice of a vehicle to do things like that. The 2002 4Runner I have currently I fell that I don't have to baby it. That's thefeeling I want in my next SUV. The only reason I selling my 2002 is that I can get a good price for it here in Koe\rea before I return to San Diego and that it is somewhat narrow on the inside. In 2003, the 4Runner was widened by about 5-6 inches and it makes a big difference. Another observation I made when I drove the XC90 was the center console extends out from the dash more than I am used to. It also seems to flare a bit, reducing your leg space foor the front seat occupants. So, I'm still looking for a tie breaker between the 2 vehicles. Any other comments you have during your seach and decision would be helpful. Thanks again.
You are comparing different kinds of vehicles aimed at different markets. The XC90 is a car-based premium SUV designed for outstanding family hauling, safety, comfort, good manners, and flexibility. The 4Runner is a truck-based SUV designed to be more capable off-road but also cheaper, less refined and not as safe.
CU's reliability rating means little in a new vehicle and should be taken with a large grain of salt. See other posts on the subject.
Baby the XC90? That's up to you. I tow a couple of small trailers, one which is used mostly for dump & gardening runs. To carry messy objects in the back we use a plastic liner tray behind the second row--works like a charm. Much driving off-pavement, too, and it does quite well with great comfort. I have owner a couple of jeeps and find the XC90 to be superior in almost every way except for extreme off-roading.
Comments
Anyway, we bought a T6 about 2 months ago and we are very pleased with our decision (the other choice was MDX - looks and safety features were a bigger factor than gas mileage for us. MDX has a great engine but its look is definitely dated and due for a redesign -- next yr I think). BTW, the T5 is fine but seemed to work hard on hills and we decided against it as there are lots of hills where we live. I think the T6 is about 1 sec quicker in 0-60 than the T5 and for us that was a factor.
But my wife has now reconfigured the car to keep the four year old away from the 6 year old. Now the baby (in a britax roundabout) goes in the middle, with britax boosters on either side. as a result, we now use neither the integrated booster in the middle, nor the latch attachments on the outboard seats. but everyone seems to be happy. of course, good luck getting to the 3rd row with a roundabout in the middle of the 2nd row. fortunately, it's rarely used.
V8 6 speed auto.
mileage should improve based on tranny change alone.
The referenced review is rather fanciful. Either the 2.5T tested was defective or the Canadian version is different or it actually had a diesel and the reviewer didn't know it! The forums are full of first-hand reports from mountain areas that the 2.5T has plently of power. I, for one, frequently travel over passes, on highway truck routes requiring passing, and off-road with no trouble at all. We even tow a small travel trailer (about 2000 pounds) on many trips and the 2.5T works like a champ. The T6 certainly has more "punch" at highway speeds but the 2.5T is no dog and can hold its own. Plus, the better gas mileage and longer range on a tank are advantages.
As for the external link, they haven't spotted iyet or the url decoration hid it.
1. CU's reliability rating is generally misunderstood by readers. It is not a subjective rating like most. Rather, it is a percentage of reported defects per 100 owners compared to an "average car." The percentage ranges are quite small. Thus, the XC90 does pretty well in individual defect categories but not as well as the "average car" and so gets a poor predicted reliability mark.
2. The XC90's overall rating is "Very Good," 17th out of 28 mid-size SUVs. This rating is heavily influenced by reliability and tested fuel economy. Since they reviewed a T6, fuel economy was not that great. In any case the overall rating is rather subjective as it is based on assumed priorities.
3. The data for the XC90 rating was from late 2003, early in the production, and was less than 300 respondents. The minimum CU uses is 100. With such a small sample, a few erroneous reports can shift the rating.
4. The car surveys are sent to CU readers and have little quality control. It's up to the respondent to decide what is a significant problem to them. There is no way of knowing how much the data were influenced by minor problems such as tarnished lugnuts, misadjusted audio systems, abused keyfobs, etc.
5. New survey data are being gathered for release later this year or next year. We will have to wait and see what the second-year reports say.
6. There were some early problems with the XC90, as expected with a new car. Some of the annoying ones (transmission shift delay, turbo whine) involved the T6. Few 2.5T owners have reported significant problems in the forums. All have been fixed.
7. It would seem that CU's reliability ratings are more pertinent to used cars than first-year models. Perhaps a better indicator is "Would you buy that car again?" The XC90 is among the 33 "Most Satisfying" cars and the Volvo brand ranked 8th out of 33 in "Dealer satisfaction."
Take CU's reliability rating with a BIG grain of salt and interpret it carefully.
Since Volvo has just publicly acknowledged the V8 I'm not surprised that you haven't found any press releases about the tranny. i'm sure Volvo doesn't want to sabotage T6 sales.
1)What kind of sales tax and other taxes do you pay on the car through this program? How does it compare to the US?
2)When do you actually pay for the car? If I were to finance, would the payments start once the car is delivered, or when I sign the agreement? Or is it a cash-only payment program, and if so, when do I have to foot the bill?
3)If I want to pick up my car, say, 4 months after I sign, is that possible?
4)Lastly, does anyone know if the travel deal (free tickets and one night hotel stay) will continue in 2005? The website says it's over Dec. 31, 2004. If it doesn't continue, would it be possible to buy the car in December and not pick it up until next April? Anyone know?
Thanks!
2. You have to pay in full no later than 30 days prior to the delivery date. If you finance, your finance contract will commence at the same time - 30 days prior to the delivery.
3. Yes it is possible, if there is a quota for the OSD available. Normal lead time is 12 - 16 weeks.
4. More likely - yes. This deal was available for 3 - 4 years already, and there is no indications that it's going to end. However, 4 years ago, in March of 2000 I have gotten only one ticket and a free night. It has changed to two tickets in April of 2000, if I am not mistaken.
Given the number of issues that come with any "new" model -won't the V8 have lots of bugs to work out as the 2.5 and T6 did?
As for the T6 engine, unless they price the V8 quite a bit higher than the T6, I really can't see anyone buying a T6 that gets WORSE gas mileage than a V8 (at least BMW's new X5 version) and barely performs any better than the standard Volvo 2.5 engine. And I don't think Volvo has much, if any, room to price the V8 higher than the current T6. So, IMO, the T6, which has widely been criticized as a mismatched engine for an SUV application, will soon be history.
That engine will supplant the 2.5T 5 cyl for SUV duty.
The V8 will be priced higher than the T6, no doubt about it. Look for the V8 to be part of a limited issue XC90 Premier edition.
What's your experience with placing OSD orders for the XC90 - is the quota high enough not to have problems, or do you have to contact multiple dealerships to find an open slot?
Also, if I were to place an order this fall/winter (for pickup next spring, probably) - what year car would I be getting? I thought I read that the new year models are released in May. So pickup in March/April would be a 2004? Is this correct?
Thanks again!
2. The model year change over is in September - October, so if you order your car for the Spring 2005 delivery it would a 2005 model for sure. You can get 2005 model in October - November 2004.
I'll see you at the FDC in Gothenburg on Tuesday. Travel safe.
BSK
Look for the loud family of four (two young 16-21 girls) of Russian decent. We usually are easy to locate :-)
thanks
Scott
OSD,
Early on there were limits on the XC90 for OSD.
Now you should have no problem ordering one.
Rule of thumb is 3 months prior to your anticipated travel date.
1. How long has volvo been making the v6 engine?
2. Is it going to be completely replaced by the v8?
3. Have there been any issues with the v6 other than poor gas mileage?
4. I like the 5 cylinder and I know that volvo has been making that engine since the early 90's, but I am concerned that it will not be able to handle the xc90 long term being that the xc90 has 800 pounds on the station wagon that the engine has been standard in for years. Does anyone else have this concern?
5. The dealer said to me that it wasn't for sure yet on the arrival of the v8 for 05. Anyone know the truth to this?
I would buy this thing tomorrow, if I could get past the concerns with the engines. If volvo hasn't made the v6 all that long, and it is going to be replaced, then why would anyone buy the v6 as mechanics would never see it in the shop being that there are so few of them on the road.
any other advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
scott
I stopped by the local Volvo dealership and their word on the V8 is that it is absolutely coming in the 2005 model year, they Just couldn't give me a month yet. The sales manager, who is a bit of a car enthusiast, told me that he thinks it will be well worth the wait. The combination of the extra power and 6 speed automatic should make it much more responsive than the T6, and probably more fuel efficient as well.
By the way, he mentioned they had two XC90 T6's come in for turbo replacements in the last month. One was covered under warranty, but Volvo NA is balking at covering the other one because it came in 2+ quarts low on oil and had a non-Volvo approved trailer hitch. When I asked the cost if not covered, the reply was "don't ask".
I'm gald I've decided to wait for the 2005 models, the XC90 V8 will be on the top of my must drive list. As far as the 2.5, I think it can handle "light duty" just fine. But if you are in need of a heavier duty SUV (hills/mountains, off road, boat towing, or just a lot of driving with a full load of people and cargo), you should probably look elsewhere. Our neighbor that has a 2.5 traded a V70 T5 and they have no complaints, other than getting to and from their ski house with 4-5 passengers. They do not do any offroading or boat hauling. I think we could get by with a 2.5, but if the V8 isn't too much more expensive, would likely go in that direction.
We live in Colorado and the turbos are wonderful. At this altitude, normally-aspirated engines suffer from a 20% loss of horsepower. The turbos don't.
We also have a 302HP Lincoln Aviator (no complaints). While the Aviator is a towing machine, the T6 is equally responsive in Denver and even more so in the mountains - thanks to the forced induction of the turbos.
While the V8 and 6-speed transmission are great, I suspect it will be at least a $5K premium as they move the XC90 upmarket against the V8 X5 and ML.
Is the V8 the same as the one going into the new Land Rover LR3 (Discovery?)
The I6 engine predates the I5 engine. The two are related to one another. Volvo makes 4,5, and 6 cyl engines off the same basic design.
All in all the I6 has been a very successful design. The limiting factor in the driveline is the transmission. It can't take the full output of the engine. So the engine output is limited in 1st and 2nd gears.
As for the I5's ability to handle the XC90's weight, don't worry. Volvo has lots of experience w/ small engines moving large cars. The 240's had 4 cyl engines from 90-113 hp moving 3300 lb cars.
These engines run forever,almost.
Volvo won't say if the V8 will totally replace the T6. Given the suspected price point for the V8 I doubt it. the V8 is scheduled to debut in the first quarter of 2005.
The engine is NOT shared w/ Land Rover or any other Ford entity.
If you don't mind spending over 50k, and probably not being able to get a "deal" I think the V8 is going to be superb. Otherwise, I have no problem recommending the T6.
(1) My guess is that the V8 engine will be no more, or marginally more expensive for Vovlo to produce (or buy) than the T6 engine. A couple more cylinders, a few more pounds of steel in the engine block, but less two turbochargers and other related attachments. The 6-speed transmission may be more than the 4-speed, but overall, I would be very surprised if the total manufacturing/procurement cost to Volvo would be more than $500-$1,000 more than the the current T6 engine. It's not as though Volvo is buying a limited production engine from AMG or Motorsport. The Yamaha V8 is no more intrinsically complex than the T6, it's just better in an SUV application.
(2) If Volvo wants to attach a bunch of other goodies to the V8 engine offering and price it at $50k, I think they will run into market resistance. I'm just one buyer, but the 2.5 looks good to me at $36-$37k (current prices with incentives), the V8 with a few other extras at $42k+/-. (That's about $3,000 more than I could purchase a MDX w/ Navigation for today). I do not believe the XC90 will have wide market appeal as a $50k vehicle simply with a V8 engine and 6-speed transmission. There is just too much good competition well below that price.
(3) I think the 2.5 is the more likely survivor than the T6. In basic form, it provides Vovlo with a competitive entry price, gets decent mileage, and has enough power for many buyers. The T6, especially with its 4 speed transmission, is a flawed product. Less power than the V8, worse mileage, and not that much less expensive, if at all. Worst of all worlds in a three engine line-up. And Volvo barely sells enough XC90's to support a two engine line-up. Frankly, I don't think it would be a bad idea for them to pick one engine (V8) and just run with it. Works for the Pilot/MDX, GX470, and other higher volume SUVs. Volvo isn't Porsche.
Like I said, speculation form a prospective buyer, so take it for what it's worth.
This means that for "Now" Volvo XC90 has the most up to date look in the SUV world I think it looks great and the mileage of the 2.5 is great aswell.
My question is does Volvo correct thier technical problems as they build thier cars or do they waite until the next year to put in to effect all the fixes.
I dont think I will be able to wait till the O5 based on the fact that my trade in vehicle is getting more and more milage and losing its value as a down payment for the XC90.
Any insight would be welcome
We drive the 2.5T in the mountains, off-road, tow a 2000# trailer, and run up to the ski areas frequently with no problems. It has plently of power and seems to be a fine engine. More power would just be wasteful, IMHO.
Sometimes to correct shortcomings, other times they just found a better way of doing things.
2005's will be out in October
There's plenty of market precedent and apparent buyers at that price point. A well-equipped Lexus GX470 is over $50k, and it's basically a much plusher 4runner with the V8 option and some more options. The Mercedes ML500 is around $50k, and the next-gen M-class will probably have a price increase. A well-equipped V8-powered Touareg can top $50k as well.
The 2.5T and T6-replacement XC90's can compete in the $40's with the MDX, RX330, etc. as they are doing today (and successfully, too). The XC90 competes well in both ranges with its blend of Volvo safety and up-to-date features.
While I'd love to buy a well-equipped V8 XC90 in the mid-$40's, I highly doubt that'll happen.
Guy
Also, has anyone gotten this rebate in the southeast? Florida? I am seeing totally different pricing in my area versus others.
thanks for the help
Scott
Also, I'm seriously looking into the OSD program, and I emailed the overseas people and she said the 2005 OSD prices come out in the next few weeks. I called my local dealer last week and he said they're the same as the 2004 prices. Does anyone know what's accurate?
Thanks!
If you plan to seat 6 footers in there forget it. Above 5'-7" and you start to feel tight.
My wife which is 5'-3" said they are very comfortable. Her longuest trip in there was 1 hour.
Hope this helps!
Guy
Apparently, too late to hit 04 model. Any ideas if there's any mod's on 05 vs 04? Also, anticipated 05 delivery?
Dealer says things move faster when sold rather than dealer stock. This is X-Plan purchase. Looks like X-Plan pricing is a decent advantage?
2. Does the round trip ticket cover flying into Sweden and out of another city on the continent?
3. Time line: Order and pick up ~3 months later. After drop off receive vehicle at dealer? Total ~5 months after placing order before receiving vehicle.
4. I assume vehicle must be picked up before July or wait until August-September for model changeover. And if it is picked up in July you will be driving last years model when it finally reaches the US?
Thanks
Another thing is that I want a vehicle that I don't necessarily have to "baby". In that I mean I would like to be able to hitch a trailer up the the SUV and maybe take a load to the land fill. I can't see myself doing that with the XC90 T6 or moving furniture for my daughter around. It seems to me that the T6 would be too high-end and nice of a vehicle to do things like that. The 2002 4Runner I have currently I fell that I don't have to baby it. That's thefeeling I want in my next SUV. The only reason I selling my 2002 is that I can get a good price for it here in Koe\rea before I return to San Diego and that it is somewhat narrow on the inside. In 2003, the 4Runner was widened by about 5-6 inches and it makes a big difference. Another observation I made when I drove the XC90 was the center console extends out from the dash more than I am used to. It also seems to flare a bit, reducing your leg space foor the front seat occupants. So, I'm still looking for a tie breaker between the 2 vehicles. Any other comments you have during your seach and decision would be helpful. Thanks again.
CU's reliability rating means little in a new vehicle and should be taken with a large grain of salt. See other posts on the subject.
Baby the XC90? That's up to you. I tow a couple of small trailers, one which is used mostly for dump & gardening runs. To carry messy objects in the back we use a plastic liner tray behind the second row--works like a charm. Much driving off-pavement, too, and it does quite well with great comfort. I have owner a couple of jeeps and find the XC90 to be superior in almost every way except for extreme off-roading.