I agree with whartonman, although if he is a graduate of Wharton he probably does not need to worry about the 15% difference in fuel costs between the xc90 vs the MDX.
Forgetting the cash and philosophical aspects, needing to refuel every 200-250 miles or so of mixed driving is a pain the [non-permissible content removed]. That could mean refueling every 2 to 3 days at the rate whartonman puts on miles - I would hate that.
We put about 9000 miles of mostly city driving per year on our cars which means refueling about every 1-2 weeks which is tolerable. The MPG seems low compared to similar SUVs in terms of size and weight.
However, whatever anyone is getting out of the showroom will probably not tell you much of the long term story. And, how people drive is more important than the platform, in my experience. When I first got a Vette I was getting 16mpg on the trip computer, when I try I can now get 22mpg with mostly local mileage, driving style makes a huge difference. Add to that the turbo or twin turbo, I think, and I'm guessing the differences could even be greater, so somebody else's experience might not give you what you think you are getting. FWIW And BTW, your additional information did clarify why it is of interest to you, very well, which is what I was interested in.
And, yes I look at the posted mpg, which wasn't out yet when I test drove both models, but then I would just factor it by what my driving style gets compared to other things I drive and their posted numbers. Again, FWIW. Good luck finding somebody with current input.
I also agree with the comment about tank size, loved the 40 gal tank in the 6.2L diesel we had for ten years in a Suburban, biggest problem was to remember to top it off every so often when you didn't have a long trip to make. Then again the 11 gal tank in the '87 Pulsar which only gets about 24mpg can be a pain to keep full on occasion.
Figure 12-15 city and 16-18 highway.For the T6 Keep in mind that driving habits greatly influence mileage. Floor the twin turbo alot and see what happens. The 2.5T is a better choice for mileage concerns
Real world experience, calculated, not trip computer, in an '00 Excursion with V-10, doing a slow trip once just for a test at no more than 65 mph and I got 15+ over two tanks. At normal driving I get just over 14mph highway which is about all we do with the beast. Must admit I wouldn't want to drive it local much. Not recommending the ExcuseMe unless you have a need. Also it doesn't have stability control which is why I'm following the XC90 discussion.
Car & Driver's SUV comparison test had the T6 (with Versatility) averaging 16mpg on their 650 mile "road trip," a mix of highway and city. That sounds about right.
Just a comment... its not too bizarre to care about mileage on a $40K vehicle, I find it a hassle to fill up as often as I do now. If the tank was twice the size then that would be another story.
However what *really* bothers me are people who buy the $40K vehicle and then wonder if they can get by on cheap gas. C'mon the hassle of refueling is one thing, but the cost for each fillup is a question people in this market should not be asking.
True, it always floors me that someone buys an expensive car but wants to put the cheap stuff in it. Even when the book calls for premium. Keep in mind that it takes 2-3000 miles for a Volvo engine to give you real mileage.
To me miles till empty or range is more important than pure mileage. I have a car that gets 18-19 miles per gallon. But my range is only about 270 miles. I drove an expedition for a weekend and the computed miles till empty was 380+ with a full tank. Give me car with a 30 gal tank and 12 mpg rather than one with a 14 gal tank and 18-19 mpg. It sucks to have to fill up twice a week and I figure it wouldn't cost me much more to fill up a larger tank less times.
Cars worth £30 MILLION sank to the bottom of the English channel Saturday the 14th after two ships collided in fog. Among the 2,862 new top-of-the-range motors on board the holed Tricolor were BMWs, Volvos (1900 vehicles) and Saabs. "http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12197254,00.html"
After reading a Swedish paper I found out that 250 of the vehicles where XC90 headed for the US and UK market. I sure hope no one get a delayed delivery of their XC90.
Something like $49 million bucks worth of luxo cars sank in that collision; actually the pic I saw in the morning paper showed the ship floating on its side. Maybe someone can pick up an ultra cheap "salty" XC90 or BMW in coming weeks!
I think ill get first pick, ill tke a white bmw and white xc90, haha. If this affects me, volvo betetr pay for an overseas delievery porgram for my entire family. Stupid captians, probelm exploreing the interrio of the xc90, and didnt see the incoming iceberg ;)Haha.
I believe that my car may have been aboard the ship that sank in the English Channel. My car was due to arrive at the dealership by X-mas and I haven't heard that it had arrived in a U.S. port prior to the ship collision, therefore it may have been enroute to the U.S. I am still waiting for my dealer to call me back with any info. and confirm whether or not my car was aboard this ship. Does anyone know how many of the 250 XC90's were bound for the U.S.?
i am one of the expectant owners of the xc90 due to arrive this month (i live in the east coast). i'm not sure if one of the vehicles that went down the english channel was mine. i will check with my dealer.
meanwhile, if you want wood dash kit on your xc90, autoaccessorystore.com already carried it (aside from exoticwooddash.com as posted earlier - which i can't seem to find!). you can view the parts at "http://www.bitrim.com/woodkits/wd493.gif". the full kit is on sale for $199.
I've had my T6 for 2 weeks so far and I love it. Very comfortable, the Dolby Pro Logic stereo system is AWESOME, put a CD in there and you'll think your in a concert hall. Rides great, I like it so much better than the MDX.
The only downside so far is people continually want to ask questions take a look at it (some have asked to sit in it). ORDER IT IN BLACK w/ the tinted windows w/ the 18' inch wheels. I can't believe I even like the wood steering wheel. It feels smooth when your turning corners.
I don't see any listing for the XC90 model for wood dash kits at autoaccessorystore.com.
I have not heard whether my XC90 went down. It was slated for delivery in early January, and left Gothenburg Dec. 2. I don't know if they ship them to Belgium before going on (since this ship was coming from Belgium). I wonder if it would still be in the English Channel 2 weeks later.
dougf2, You seem to be the only one with a confirmation on the sunken XC90's. I have one on order through a CA bay area dealer for delivery Dec. 30, but can't get any information on whether it was on that ship. It was supposed to arrive at a port near LA on Dec. 20th. What dealer in what area are you working with and what was your ETA? I'm assuming you're in California based on your post above. Any information is much appreciated.
Wow, the ultimate rollover test! Or was it an omen? I got a call from my dealer today (east bay SF)and although my ordered xc90 wasn't on the ship my order slated end Jan would be pushed back till mid april. They had a cancellation occur on a similar car we'll get ours end Jan as first anticipated. They have cancelled the security package I'm told.
91 is the recommended octane for the T6. We've had ours for two weeks now. My wife loves it. I haven't really had a chance to drive it very much, but I am very pleased with the combination of comfort, luxury, performance, and functionality. Does anyone have experience with buying Volvo extended warranties? The dealer quoted over $1800 for 5 year/100k, and that sounded pretty high to me.
Has anyone order via European Delivery? Please provide any details as far as how many persons are allowed to go? Discounts on MSRP? Pros and Cons? Thanks.
Not available yet. Volvo will be accepting orders starting in Jan for deliveries starting in May. Cars will be '04s. No word on pricing,that is there will be no discount from US MSRP, but we don't know if Volvo is raising the price on the '04's. Currently Volvo is offering 2 free roundtrip tickets.
My car was scheduled for 12/30. My current S80 lease was up in October, and was extended for up to 6 months, so I'm ok thanks.
My dealer is Pleasanton Volvo. My car has been reordered for a March 10 delivery (I'm told that's the best they can do - they're a good dealer though).
I'm still a little unclear about it all though - I guess the car was going to be late, as the ship was going to England, then to Baltimore, then through the Panama Canal to California, and it still has to be fixed up at the port. My understanding is that it is a several week process. So I guess my XC90 would actually have been ready about the 2nd week of January.
i've just inquired from my dealer, and told me that my xc90 luckily was not one of those going down the ocean (he said most of those vehicles are bound for the west coast).
back to the wood dash kit: there are 2 stores that carry them right now, but the kit won't be available until after 3 weeks because the shipment comes from japan. you can't order a different color or style, however, because the ones they are providing are supposed to "match" the wood used in the shifter panel, which is sherwood (no burlwood, rosewood or even carbon fiber). you have to go with the same wood style even if it looks really fake!
now the 2 stores are:
1) autoaccessorystore.com and can be contacted at support@autoaccessorystore.com (the parts can be seen at "http://www.bitrim.com/woodkits/Wd493.gif", with full kit of 23 pcs. selling at $199, and half kit of 12 pcs. selling at $129.
2) first impressions carry a full kit (31 pcs.) at less price, for $150. they can be contacted at "autowood@aol.com" attn laurie or lisa. the parts, i was told, are original and carry the volvo logos.
3) exoticwooddash.com - i think they carry it but so far i am unlucky trying to get feedbcak from them.
I have an order for a T6 to be delivered in early March. Unfortunately, I am being told that it will ship without Bi-Xenon HID headlamps. This is an option I find nearly necessary and am willing to pay the extra in the req. climate package in order to obtain. Are any of the XC90s shipping with Xenon lights? Does anyone know if Volvo can add this option after delivery when parts become available? What about aftermarket lamps?
Found out yesterday from my dealer that my car did not go down with the ship. Still waiting to hear if my original Jan 2, 2003 delivery date still stands.
Are available in limited quantities. A March car should be able to have them as an option. We have a few cars coming at that time w/ the headlights. Sadly, I don't think you will be able to retrofit them to yours.
in response to inquiries about xc90's with xenons, i would say there are a few out there now. in fact, my dealer called me last week if i would like to take a t6 complete with bi-xenons and premium package (instead of the 2.5 that i've ordered). however, i declined his offer when he told me it'll cost me an extra 5-6 grand. so, i'm back to my 2.5t. maybe there are manufacturers out there who specialize in HID's, and would be able to retrofit the new xc90's, with similar or equivalent headlight intensity. anybody with information please let us know!!
Are you considering buying the Infiniti FX45, the Volvo XC90 or Lexus RX 330? A tv producer is looking for folks who are likely to buy one of these vehicles in the future. If you fit the bill, and would be willing to share part of your experience with the media, please send your daytime contact information and vehicle shopping list to jfallon@edmunds.com by January 15, 2003
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...is how two ships can collide with one another. I mean, the oceans are wide enough and we now have GPS Systems and RADAR. How can something like this happen? Maybe someone can fill in the blanks for me?
---- I was very "adament" and was able to get the boosters for free, but buyer beware on this one. Take your car seats with you for the test drive and haggle for their seats if need be. The available intergrated booster works great but only if you have one child. ----------
What did you say to customer service at volvo to convince them to give you the free boasters? or did you get them from the dealers?
I mean, the oceans are wide enough and we now have GPS Systems and RADAR. How can something like this happen? Maybe someone can fill in the blanks for me?
GPS tells you where you are - not where the other guy is. Rough seas can block your radar until it's too late to take corrective action. As for width, the actual corridors for shipping lanes are fairly narrow.
Unfortunately my XC90 was among those lost on the Tricolor. My dealer informs me that Volvo is reallocating production capacity originally intended for the European market to North America. They say I should expect retail delivery "some time in March."
On a lark, I submitted an inquiry to Volvo customer service via their website. Here is the response I received:
"Volvo has a positive solution for customers who's vehicles was aboard the Tricolor. Please contact your sales manager for further assistance."
Waiting another 3 months to receive my vehicle doesn't sound like much of a 'positive solution' to me. Is there something my dealer isn't telling me?
Volvo allocated new vehicles to those dealers that lost XC90s. As these cars are unbuilt it will be March before they can be delivered. Volvo does not have any stock of already built cars to draw from.
Having finally driven the T-6 with the third seat, I have to say it really is not designed for even five people to sit comfortably more or less seven! The middle seat in the second row is hard and not suitable for trips longer then to the mall. The third row has no leg room and really only fits the bill for second graders and younger.
If you expect to take more than four people, older than 12 to the beach or a mountain weekend, IMHO, this is not the car, unless some of your passengers are diminutive or tolerate of numbing discomfort.
I have been following this car for over a year, hoping that it would fit all my needs (stand-out unique appearance,3d seat,luxury,performance,cool options [such as night vision],gas mileage and safety.) BUT, you gotta have a little room in the back rows.
If you are the least bit concerned about the room for your passengers and a more spacious distance from your passengers, make sure this car is what you really want. I have decided the XC90 has tried to do too much in this shell.
I know you all love this car, so please be kind and just consider my view while your research your next ride. In the mean time, I'll stay on the sidelines in see what's coming out next.
I had a silver xc90 with nav and xenons, btu it sank, so now we have to settle on a ruby red w/o nav or xenons, but we got the dealer to take off 500 dollars off of installation of nav(b/c its 1000 over factory price to have it dealer installed), we ca still back out b/c we have a deposit on a silver 2003 mdx with nav, but we would have liked to have that other volvo, but our original dealership was not willing to help, so we movd to another dealership. What a shame, how much worse publicity can u get when losing that many hot-selling cars.
I was thinking the same thing and I am so glad you mentioned it. I thought the xc70 was roomier in the second row and that in the xc90 the 2nd row middle seat seemed useless. I keep coming back to ordering one, then I read your post and now I am not sure. I will be putting a carseat in the second row in th e middle seat with boosters to each side. I have the xplan and I had been waiting to use it but looks like a no go. Was thinking about the aviator but I am questioning its safety as it wouldnt be as safe as volvo, but itwas a good size inside and I can use xplan. Ughs! Will I ever make a decision?
Wow, all this talk about the roominess (or lack thereof) of the 2nd row doesn't sound very good to me. I will need to put 2 car seats in the 2nd row. So with this amount of space, I guess only the car seats will occupy the 2nd row. That'd be a bit of a waste.
Regarding X-Plan, I inquired about it around November and X-Plan said December eligibity. And then I checked the X-Plan website recently and the XC90 is still ineligible. Realistically, I would say that late Summer 2003 eligibility would be the earliest, if at all.
Just a thought on car seats, and have to admit with our only kid out of college I don't have any experience. Except for soft stuff on the floor, if you have car seats occupied, why would you ever put anything in the same row of seats that could shift, drift or get banged into the car seats? Seems some kind of net or dog fence with everything in the back or 3rd row would be safer.
As to seating, hardly ever get in a back seat of anything but tried the 2nd row at the demo drive and at 6' 3" I sat down with no issue, that doesn't speak to long term riding, I know. That was also before I cranked the front seat back to where I liked it, and there was great room there.
Comments
Forgetting the cash and philosophical aspects, needing to refuel every 200-250 miles or so of mixed driving is a pain the [non-permissible content removed]. That could mean refueling every 2 to 3 days at the rate whartonman puts on miles - I would hate that.
We put about 9000 miles of mostly city driving per year on our cars which means refueling about every 1-2 weeks which is tolerable. The MPG seems low compared to similar SUVs in terms of size and weight.
And, yes I look at the posted mpg, which wasn't out yet when I test drove both models, but then I would just factor it by what my driving style gets compared to other things I drive and their posted numbers. Again, FWIW. Good luck finding somebody with current input.
I also agree with the comment about tank size, loved the 40 gal tank in the 6.2L diesel we had for ten years in a Suburban, biggest problem was to remember to top it off every so often when you didn't have a long trip to make. Then again the 11 gal tank in the '87 Pulsar which only gets about 24mpg can be a pain to keep full on occasion.
Keep in mind that driving habits greatly influence mileage.
Floor the twin turbo alot and see what happens.
The 2.5T is a better choice for mileage concerns
However what *really* bothers me are people who buy the $40K vehicle and then wonder if they can get by on cheap gas. C'mon the hassle of refueling is one thing, but the cost for each fillup is a question people in this market should not be asking.
Just my opinion...
Even when the book calls for premium.
Keep in mind that it takes 2-3000 miles for a Volvo engine to give you real mileage.
After reading a Swedish paper I found out that 250 of the vehicles where XC90 headed for the US and UK market. I sure hope no one get a delayed delivery of their XC90.
Steve, Host
Call 1-800-WET-CARS.
We are waiting to hear about the XC90's that were sunk.
He will know this afternoon the details on who lost what, and if one of them is yours (or mine), they'll replace it by the end of February.
It's a good story to tell your friends, anyway.
meanwhile, if you want wood dash kit on your xc90, autoaccessorystore.com already carried it (aside from exoticwooddash.com as posted earlier - which i can't seem to find!). you can view the parts at "http://www.bitrim.com/woodkits/wd493.gif". the full kit is on sale for $199.
I will not get a replacement until March.
I am a victim.
Steve, Host
The only downside so far is people continually want to ask questions take a look at it (some have asked to sit in it). ORDER IT IN BLACK w/ the tinted windows w/ the 18' inch wheels. I can't believe I even like the wood steering wheel. It feels smooth when your turning corners.
NICE !!!!!
I have not heard whether my XC90 went down. It was slated for delivery in early January, and left Gothenburg Dec. 2. I don't know if they ship them to Belgium before going on (since this ship was coming from Belgium). I wonder if it would still be in the English Channel 2 weeks later.
You seem to be the only one with a confirmation on the sunken XC90's. I have one on order through a CA bay area dealer for delivery Dec. 30, but can't get any information on whether it was on that ship. It was supposed to arrive at a port near LA on Dec. 20th. What dealer in what area are you working with and what was your ETA? I'm assuming you're in California based on your post above. Any information is much appreciated.
Volvo will be accepting orders starting in Jan for deliveries starting in May.
Cars will be '04s.
No word on pricing,that is there will be no discount from US MSRP, but we don't know if Volvo is raising the price on the '04's.
Currently Volvo is offering 2 free roundtrip tickets.
My car was scheduled for 12/30. My current S80 lease was up in October, and was extended for up to 6 months, so I'm ok thanks.
My dealer is Pleasanton Volvo. My car has been reordered for a March 10 delivery (I'm told that's the best they can do - they're a good dealer though).
I'm still a little unclear about it all though - I guess the car was going to be late, as the ship was going to England, then to Baltimore, then through the Panama Canal to California, and it still has to be fixed up at the port. My understanding is that it is a several week process. So I guess my XC90 would actually have been ready about the 2nd week of January.
back to the wood dash kit: there are 2 stores that carry them right now, but the kit won't be available until after 3 weeks because the shipment comes from japan. you can't order a different color or style, however, because the ones they are providing are supposed to "match" the wood used in the shifter panel, which is sherwood (no burlwood, rosewood or even carbon fiber). you have to go with the same wood style even if it looks really fake!
now the 2 stores are:
1) autoaccessorystore.com and can be contacted at support@autoaccessorystore.com (the parts can be seen at "http://www.bitrim.com/woodkits/Wd493.gif", with full kit of 23 pcs. selling at $199, and half kit of 12 pcs. selling at $129.
2) first impressions carry a full kit (31 pcs.) at less price, for $150. they can be contacted at "autowood@aol.com" attn laurie or lisa. the parts, i was told, are original and carry the volvo logos.
3) exoticwooddash.com - i think they carry it but so far i am unlucky trying to get feedbcak from them.
Thank you in advance.
A March car should be able to have them as an option.
We have a few cars coming at that time w/ the headlights.
Sadly, I don't think you will be able to retrofit them to yours.
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Review your vehicle
At least all the turbos are now water cooled.
The ship's captain should have used the Nav systems from one of the Volvos!
Sorry, that's cruel. Hope those waiting get them soon. At least all of the crew survived.
Beautiful SUV, by the way. Makes the Cayenne look like an Aztek.
-juice
-juice
I was very "adament" and was able to get the boosters for free, but buyer beware on this one. Take your car seats with you for the test drive and haggle for their seats if need be. The available intergrated booster works great but only if you have one child.
----------
What did you say to customer service at volvo to convince them to give you the free boasters? or did you get them from the dealers?
GPS tells you where you are - not where the other guy is. Rough seas can block your radar until it's too late to take corrective action. As for width, the actual corridors for shipping lanes are fairly narrow.
tidester, host
On a lark, I submitted an inquiry to Volvo customer service via their website. Here is the response I received:
"Volvo has a positive solution for customers who's vehicles was aboard the Tricolor. Please contact your sales manager for further assistance."
Waiting another 3 months to receive my vehicle doesn't sound like much of a 'positive solution' to me. Is there something my dealer isn't telling me?
-juice
As these cars are unbuilt it will be March before they can be delivered.
Volvo does not have any stock of already built cars to draw from.
If you expect to take more than four people, older than 12 to the beach or a mountain weekend, IMHO, this is not the car, unless some of your passengers are diminutive or tolerate of numbing discomfort.
I have been following this car for over a year, hoping that it would fit all my needs (stand-out unique appearance,3d seat,luxury,performance,cool options [such as night vision],gas mileage and safety.) BUT, you gotta have a little room in the back rows.
If you are the least bit concerned about the room for your passengers and a more spacious distance from your passengers, make sure this car is what you really want. I have decided the XC90 has tried to do too much in this shell.
I know you all love this car, so please be kind and just consider my view while your research your next ride. In the mean time, I'll stay on the sidelines in see what's coming out next.
I was thinking the same thing and I am so glad you mentioned it. I thought the xc70 was roomier in the second row and that in the xc90 the 2nd row middle seat seemed useless. I keep coming back to ordering one, then I read your post and now I am not sure. I will be putting a carseat in the second row in th e middle seat with boosters to each side. I have the xplan and I had been waiting to use it but looks like a no go. Was thinking about the aviator but I am questioning its safety as it wouldnt be as safe as volvo, but itwas a good size inside and I can use xplan. Ughs! Will I ever make a decision?
Karen
Regarding X-Plan, I inquired about it around November and X-Plan said December eligibity. And then I checked the X-Plan website recently and the XC90 is still ineligible. Realistically, I would say that late Summer 2003 eligibility would be the earliest, if at all.
Jayson
As to seating, hardly ever get in a back seat of anything but tried the 2nd row at the demo drive and at 6' 3" I sat down with no issue, that doesn't speak to long term riding, I know. That was also before I cranked the front seat back to where I liked it, and there was great room there.