Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Which brings up my second comment. We are on the wait list for a 2002 EXL-RES. We aren't big leather seat fans, but for anyone considering the I-VES or other after market add-on RES you might consider this. We have friends that bought a 2002 and had the I-VES system put in. The signal connection between the VCR and the stereo system is literally a radio signal, and on his system there was plenty of static and interference. With the built in DVD system from Honda, you get really nice central controls on the head unit, EXCELLENT sound quality on the DVD system, and the ability to "zone" the system (DVD movie through headsets while stereo plays separate CDs in the head unit). So I guess what I am saying is, aftermarket systems (even the I-VES from Honda), are usually not hard-wired into the audio system, and are never going to work as cleanly as the EXL-RES does. IMHO.
Paul
Hope you enjoy yours as much as I have enjoyed mine. Only problems I had was for Dash Lights, had module replaced twice under warranty.
Seems like most ppl here are happy with their Ody's any input will be appreciated.
shellymeister, we too are considering an 02 Ody, although probably not until the spring. I'd be interested in hearing about what you like best about the new 02 features.
Most people don't have tranny trouble. Our 00 shows no signs of it. But it does appear that the likelihood that one could have problems is greater than just pure random chance would cause. There does seem to be some kind of design and/or manufacturing issue. Overall, I think the Ody is less likely to have problems than just about any other minivan. But one of the problems that comes up a lot in that unfortnuate small percentage of vehicles with troubles is a very bad problem with the tranny.
Is it bad enough to dictate a recall? I don't know. I have not seen any figures, but my guess is that well under 10% of vehicles have it. The percentage may seem higher here because people with troubles are more likely to seek out forums to get/share info and vent. A lot of happy owners just lurk or never visit.
Of course, we have no idea how serious or costly these problems are, margins of error, number of respondents per vehicle, or how respondents may have been biased by the editorial content of Consumer Reports.
In any case, Odyssey compares favorably to other Minivans overall and in the Transmission category in Consumer Reports, and the transmission category does not appear to track the frequency of online complaints.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't buy the extended warranty. I've never bought one, and looking back on the repair histories of the Toyotas, Nissans and Mitsubishis I've owned, an extended warranty wouldn't have been a good investment on any of those vehicles. But I'm sure sorry now that I didn't buy one for my Odyssey. To their credit, Honda has agreed to pick up all but $1,400.00 of the repair costs, but even that amount upsets me for a repair that shouldn't be necessary. Why, even my old Chrysler Town & Country lasted significantly longer than 45K before its transmission blew up!
I still think that the Odyssey is quite a nice van. But, prospective Odyssey buyers need to be warned that this vehicle is not mechanically invulnerable, as many have claimed. You may well have the experience of Caravan and Windstar drivers waving at you as they drive by while your Odyssey sits disabled on the side of the road!
They list the '99 as a reliability risk, but that's it. Predicted reliability is average overall, which isn't bad, but Honda has been better. The Civic also dipped to an "average" rating. It had been better ever since I can remember.
Ted: I feel your pain, but the odds are the Caravan owners will be parked right next to you, and the Windstar owners wouldn't even have made it that far.
-juice
The '99 transmission problems seem to first appear in one of two ways: either a leak (which may not always be noticed), or rough shifting. Our first transmission started "thunking" into reverse -- first slightly, but then increasing in both volume and delay time. By the time it was diagnosed and the new transmission was ordered and arrived at the dealer a month later, we had completely lost the reverse gear. 18 months later, the replacement transmission started leaking slightly, and this time they didn't let us drive the van home but instead gave us a loaner car for 5 WEEKS while we waited for the new "updated" transmission (we were #350 or so on the waiting list), and they extended our warranty by 2 years gratis. So what do you conclude? Does Honda know that '99 Odysseys have poorly designed transmissions, and are they concerned that it could become a safety issue? Absolutely.
Does this mean that all '99 Odysseys are going to have a transmission failure? Of course not. Most won't. But if I had a '99 that was still under warranty, I'd consider an extended warranty, or ask my dealer about any service bulletins and request a transmission inspection.
What makes me mad is that when I do decide to sell the '99, I'm going to have to disclose to buyers that the car has had three transmissions. That's when it's going to hit me in the pocketbook.
I am also an extended warranty fan. Yes, I know they are a bad deal most of the time. But I know in advance how much that bad deal will cost me, which i can't know about possible repairs.
You can roll the cost of an extended warranty into the loan, which helps a lot of people. The problem is for me, the price is already pushing my limit.
-juice
Consider: my van only had 33000 miles on it. I do not tow anything with it (no hitch even installed). I rarely haul anything heavy in it (occasionally a pinball machine, but usually then I would only have 1 or 2 people in the van, so weight-wise it would be pretty much a wash). I don't live in a hilly or mountainous area of the country. I don't believe I drive the vehicle in an abusive manor. I do all the recommended services, usually at Honda.
Fact is, all Odysseys are created equal, it is fair to expect them to all wear out the same components since they are all built from the same parts, asembled on the same assembly line. I suspect that many of the people that say "I am not having any problems with my Odyssey transmission" need to back the van out of their garage and look for the spot. If/when you find it, you need to schedule an appointment with your dealer, assuming you are still under warranty...
IMHO
I do agree that all 99-01 Ody owners (myself included) should be aware that this problem does occur on what seems to be a "higher than purely random error" basis and looking for leakage and paying close attention to how the tranny shifts is a very good idea.
Driver factors may also influence tranny longevity, though in your case I think that was not the case.
If you were a lead foot that towed a large boat every day in hilly San Francisco, then it would. ;-)
-juice
1. The dealer may sell some of these for up to twice what we here at ETH pay for. From what I have read, if you buy a current 7/100/0 warranty for, I think the current price is about $975, the dealer only makes about $200. So your average risk cost is actually $200/7yr = about $30/yr. That is a cost you will never miss, or if you do you probably can't afford an Odyssey, or other new car, in the first place. You save a lot more then that with the low interest costs these days. Cars cost a lot of money and the cost of the warranty is a very small part of that.
2. If the dealer tells you you do need an expensive repair you tell him OK, go ahead and repair it and you get a rental car for free. Without the warranty I am not going to trust the dealer, and am going to have to go to other dealers for a second opinion, and they will probably charge to check it out. On my Buick the dealer said I needed a new transmission and, even though I did not think I did, I had him do the job. I ended up with a brand new transmission after 45,000 miles. My transmission then lasted another 100,000 miles before it also failed. That paid for the warranty right there. Also he replaced my A/C compressor for some reason and it lasted till I sold the car. Actually my brother drove the car for another 20,000 miles, with the bad transmission, before he sold it as is, to someone.
3. The warranty is transferable and makes it so much easier to sell your vehicle to a private party. You get more if you sell it to a private party
4. The manufactuor does not charge extra for first and second year vehicles, so that is were it is really a good idea to buy the extended warranty.
5. You will know what your repair costs are on your vehicle
6. It is great piece of mind.
7. The vehicle/extended warranty combination can be considered about equivalent to buying a super reliable vehicle, for the small extra cost. Most of us would be willing to buy a super reliable Odyssey for only about $1000 more then the standard reliable Odyssey. It is not really exactly equivalent, as you have more of a hassle factor when your vehicle breaks down.
From all of the above you get more value then your pay out for an extended warranty, so it pays you. It does not cost IMHO.
You can offer a buyer more piece of mind - "It's in great shape; since it is under warranty, if there was anything wrong I would just go have it fixed." This is a big competitive advantage. Besides our 00 Ody (bought new), I recently bought an old style Ody. I shopped around and narrowed it down to one that an individual had and one at a Honda dealer. Price played into it of course, but a big plus was the dealer's ability to sell me HondaCare effective immediately.
I am sure someone will post that the math doesn't work - the average cost of repairs is less than the cost of a warranty and that's how they make money. That's true. But I don't own a thousand Odys; I own two. That's not enough to spread around the cost of replacing a tranny (which is unlikely to occur, but twice as likely as for most folks).
Just look at Toyota, they have proven over the years that you can build a vehicle that is close to perfect. I think Honda comes a close second. I don't think the the fact that the 99 Ody is having tranny problems negates this. Keep in mind, that was the first time Honda began manufacturing a brand new vehicle in a brand new facility. It is not uncommon for that to happen. So if you want to reduce the odds of having problems buy from a manufacturer that consistently build better quality cars (Toyota, Honda) and avoid brand new cars from brand new plants (I ordered the 2002 Ody to replace my 2000 Ody and I am praying it is not from the new Alabama plant).
I also avoid extended warranties but not because I think their worthless, only because I most likely will upgrade to the new Odyssey before my warranty expires on the current vehicle.
I think the Odyssey is the best Minivan in the market by a wide margin, at least for now. Maybe the new 03 Siena when it comes out next year will be better but maybe not
In 12 months inventory will be higher on the lot but see no real deals forthcoming. Perhaps less over MSRP gouging.
INKY
I think that is the one aspect of extended warranties that I find border line rip-off. The very first new vehicle I purchased they offered me a 5 year extended warranty. So sitting there at the dealer, I said "Wow, 5 years plus the 3 years I'm already getting, I'd have a warranty for 8 years, that's not too bad of a deal", at which point the sales person corrected me and explained the 5 year extended warranty began immediately, not at the end of the factory warranty period (by my math, they were actually offering me a 2 year warranty, although I would certainly be paying for a large portion of it during the first 3 years that the vehicle was already covered by the manufacturer). So essentially, they are convincing the consumer to buy (partially at least) that which is already included for free.
o Don't assume that all pre-'02 Odysseys have the same transmission. Honda updated the design after the 1999 model production. I have only heard of problems with the '99.
o Forget legal disclosure requirements. arbarnhart, I hope that if you replaced the transmission on a car twice you would disclose it when selling the car.
o As for extended warranties, you've all offered some great food for thought. In the end, it's insurance; it has a different value for different people, depending on risk profile and financial profile. I for one wouldn't buy one on anything except a camcorder ;-).
Of course you might be lucky and not have to spend anything. But if the average repair cost is 975-200= $775, then on average, the average person, who buys an extended warranty on a Odyssey, is only spending $200 more then he would have over the 7 year period, if he did not have the warranty.
That average cost of 200 should be taken over 4 years, as you say,not 7 years, because a 7 year warranty is only for 4 years. Except on the 7 year warranty you do get a free rental car, if the car is in overnight or longer, + road service for the full 7 years. You do not get this if you do not have the extended warranty.
$200/4yrs = $50/yr extra.
The $50 is worth it to me for the piece of mind alone. For others they may consider it as insurance they don't want to pay for. I would say on anything else, except a vehicle, I can think of at the moment, extended warranties are not worth it and I don't buy them.
RE: 3783 My 99 has had no problems
I believe that in addition to being lucky, the way to have a more reliable car is to take care of it and drive it carefully. I do not do unnecessary accelerations, or hard braking on my Odyssey, or tow a heavy vehicle with it, and have all scheduled maintenance done on time.
But as far as the cost of the extended warranty, I will concede that if you shop around, the actual sales person selling the warranty is not making a huge heap of money on it. My only issue is, I don't tend to separate out "what the sales person gets" and "what the insurance company gets" when I look at it, to me it's just an extra $975, all at once, up front, probably financed with the car, that is paid during ownership month number 0 of having the van. If the payment of that fee were spread out somehow equally during the course of the actual warranty period, it might make sense to me. And let me just say, financed into the van loan is not the same as spreading it out equally, you might pay it off in small amounts each month, but they (Honda, whoever) definitely get all their money from you up front, either directly or from your finance company, and you are paying interest on it as you go. So the cost of that warranty, given the time frame it's paid, and the fact that most of us probably aren't buying 30k vans with cash, is substantially higher than $975.
That said, I agree, it is certainly peace of mind for some people to have it. I just have to ask, are you prepaying the total amount of every repair the van might ever need, or more?
So I personally would not pay $1000 for a 5 year warranty, but if it were 7 or 8 years I might.
-juice
We didn't get one for our ML320 and now 4 years have passed and warranty has expired last month. As all cars do, everything seems to go wrong AFTER the original warranty expires. My husband kicked himself for not getting it way back when. So, now we have decided that, when the repair bills reach $2,500, we will consider trading it in. AND, we will definitely get an extended warranty for our next set of wheels.
I doubt that anyone would ever research the fact that you had added the leather yourself, but the question is, will you be as happy with it as if you had waited just a little while for what you want to come in?
signed,
still happily waiting for my EX-L RES to come in...
Cut to the factory DVD system. Everything can be controlled from a very slick head unit, and the sound quality was impressive. Signal is hard wired, and you could play a DVD through the wireless headphones and still play a CD through the head unit and speakers at the same time.
When the sales staff says "we can install a RES in this van for about the same money", everyone needs to realize they are NOT installing the same system available from the factory. Either in looks, performance, functionality, or resale value.
And the gentleman that raised the side airbag issue made a real good point. How will you ever know if the airbags will deploy properly in the event of an accident? The dealer I am sure will assure you that the aftermarketr leather installation will not affect this, but will you ever know for sure? And is it something you want to take a chance with?
Go with the factory leather I am certain it willbe better athan anything you can install aftermarket. I suspect the dealer is looking to make additional profit by have you opt for aftermarket.
Although the factory system is nice, there are a few things to consider about an aftermarket system:
1. You can customize it any way you want to. Size of screen, placement, number of screens, head unit, placement of player, and how much you want to spend. They color matched the trim ring of the screen, looks factory. You can face the DVD player forward so front seat passegers can manipulate it, or backwards under the passenger seat so the people who will actually be using it can change disks.
2. Several shops I talked to about upgrading my speakers said that it would make a difference, but ultimately the limiting factor of the system is the head unit. I don't know if you can buy a RES optioned Oddy and then change out the head unit, but you might. Going this route would mean that the DVD would be hard-wired like the factory system, with no loss of sound quality with a better head unit. You may lose steering wheel controls, though.
3. I paid less. $1200 for the whole system, including screen, DVD player that also plays mp3s, 120V converter for playstation, 2 wireless headphones, fm-modulator, and remote. $200 more for an extended, 5-year warranty, for a total of $1400. I may add a head unit with its own screen, so the player will be hard wired and the front passenger can enjoy the movie also.
4. An aftermarket system would allow you to have an entertainment system and NAV. I know you can do this with the factory system (according to posts on Oddyclub), but would require extensive modification to the factory system.
Just some things to consider. I'f I'd been able to get an EX-L/RES in the first place, I would have done it, but aftermarket options aren't necessarily second rate.
Mike
-juice
The Traction Control(TCS) works well when trying to start up on ice or snow and the ABS works well also.
I Have the Michelin Symmetry tires that came on the van.
The main thing to rember is take it easy-no jack rabbit starts, no quick stops and leave manuvering room to avoid the idiots that are out there with you on the road.