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Diesel engines, which is better: Ford, Dodge, Chevy
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kip
Isn't CAT's only contribution to NAVISTAR limited the injectors? Hmmmm.
Hunter
Hunter
Right now I think Ford has the best package, in a year or 2 I think GM will surpass them. IMHO
Back on topic, I agree with Catam. All three engines are phenominal. I did buy a Ford for the reasons he stated, although I am not sure where he is going with the GM thought. Would you elaborate on that Cat?
American made trucks. Is there such a thing as 100% American made anymore. I don't agree with sending all the work to Mexico and taking jobs away from Americans. But what are we going to do about it??
All American auto companies have plants scattered all over North America, Canada included. Are you going to start complaining about the Cannuks too?? It makes more corporate sense. They can make more for less.
It sucks but it's the truth!!
A company that has both union and non union employees is called an open shop. This situation is usually temporary. The atmosphere is polarized with passionate members of each group and most of the agenda is political on both fronts. This is a bad situation for the company the union and all the employees. Eventually the minority group will or at least should bow out. Most Unions will not allow an open shop for this reason. It is an all or nothing proposition because it is so detramental to have opposing philosiphies work in the same place.
I don't mean to get up on a soap box here. I am a union worker and always will be yet I have absolute respect for people who are non union. Some places need organized representation and some do not. The one thing I will not tolerate is ignorant people and their anti union sentiment grouping all union workers into a made up image of laziness and corruption.
As for the union discussion, Unions were a great thing once upon a time. We can all thank them for a 40 hour workweek instead of whatever your employer felt was appropriate.
Many union's still are good, and provide a valuable sevrice to both employees and companies.
I believe where unions started getting in trouble is in more recent times work conditions have improved for all, so union's have increasingly focused their energy on representing the needs of a few disgruntled employees rather than advocating for the greater good of all employees. The union where I work, (I am not a member, but have attended some meetings), seems more worried about trying to fight for the job of one deadbeat employee with an illigitimate grief, than helping the rest of the hard working honest employees.
When union's fight for people who need to be "fired" due to tragically bad performance, they due a diservice to themselves, the employees and the company.
At any rate don't want to offend anyone, as I said I am sure their are many good union organizations out there. The vast majority of Americans are hard working and honest, it is sad that a few bad apples paint such a bad picture at times.
Back to unions. Don't let yourself think for a second that the need for unions is over. If employers went unchallenged we would loose all of the benifits our forefathers/mothers fought for. You want proof take a look at some of the "right to work states" out there. Unions set the standard for all workplace benifits and without them rest assured they would rapidly diminish.
Unfortunately you and Pushplay are right. A lot of energy is spent defending undeserving people who have figued a way to use the system to do as little as possible without getting fired. Although this happens it is not the epedimic that everyone seems to think. The problem is that when a case of this nature comes up it is newsworthy and gets a lot of press. This is what John/Jane Q Public has read about or seen on TV and the only info used when they form an opinion about unions. What doesn't get any press is the daily workings of the unions providing a fair working environment for the rest of the membership.
Pushplay, I didn't slam you, I reacted when you slammed me an every other union member in the country. You said "Nobody is lumping everyone together just stating the facts" but in your previous post you said "If you have been around unions at all you know that the only thing they are worried about is getting something for nothing and I was in a union once". That sounds like lumping everyone together to me. Now that you have informed me that you were SEC/Treasurer you may have shed some light on the problems with your particular union. As I stated before a union is only as good as its members. People who complain about situations without doing anything to rectify them have no business in a leadership position. If there is a problem fix it. When you quit and run away only to assign blame from afar I ask why didn't you use your position to solve the problems you were having when you had the chance. It takes a strong person to take responsibility and solve difficult problems. Anyone can quit and assign blame to others for their shortcommings. The responsible hard working majority do not end up with nothing as you said before. They get all of the benifits we have all worked so hard to attain. The few deadbeat stragglers we have to put up with is a small and temporary price to pay as they will eventually hang themselves.
Define for me what hard work you did to DESERVE all of those benifits. Did you increase production and profits for the company? Or like in most cases the union argued that all people have rights to all of these freebies. Unions make me ill, they foster laziness, you have admitted it yourself, they fight for the deadbeats.
I was in a union once at UPS. We voted to strike, the US govt said no way. Tell me what good the union did there? They are past their prime. If my workers tried to unionize I would simply close the doors. Unions are dinasours, wake up man.
Does anyone out there prefer anything other than the Ford combo as far as diesels are concerned. It seems unanimous on this thread.
I really do like the Ford, I had a Dodge Cummins before the Ford, no brand loyalty here. The engine was very stout, the rest of the truck left much to be desired. I put five transmissions in that truck before selling it with 180k working miles. The engine still ran perfectly and had good power, I can't fault the Cummins. The Chevy has been a problem. They have tried to appeal to 1500 owners with a HD truck. I had an engineer from Allison come and ride in my truck. The trans is great, the computer programming GM uses, compromises it with big loads. I hauled 15k lbs back from Atlanta in fourth gear because the trans refused to hold fifth gear. 5mpg in a diesel truck, pretty sad. I think my visit with Allison has sparked a computer upgrade that MAY fix the problem. The Duramax is very strong, and very quiet, no complaints there. For a workhorse though I have to reccomend the Ford. Leaf springs and solid axles may not ride the best but they are better in a heavy duty application. The Power Stroke is on the way out but I think it is a great engine. Either the Ford or Dodge can be seriously upped in power as well. Something to consider if towing big stuff with your personal truck. Mine are stock because they are for work, with multiple drivers. I have to reccomend the Ford, I have owned a lot of vehicles and this one has been really good to me.
Who in their right mind would buy an automatic in a truck built to haul heavy loads??
I've said it before and I'll say it once more: The only reason to put an auto behind a diesel is if you only use the truck for show or a grocery getter.
If you use your truck for work you'll lose every time with an auto.
Quit complaining and get a manual in that "Duramaxi-pad"(I mean Duramax:)and all your problems will disappear!
Todays diesels are detuned programmatically for various reasons. Primarly these are whimpy auto- trannies and differentials. Dodge experienced these problems early on and made improvements as of course did Ford. GM implemented a very beafy Allison with stainless drive line, and huge differential to ward off failures.
I've not reprogrammed (chipped) mine and probably won't. Don't need more power and it goes just fine stock. Drove a turbo diesel one time and was hooked.
I am not a fan of simply "chipping" a vehicle. I like Banks systems because the address airflow restrictions on the intake, exhaust and in the intercoolers. "Chipping" your truck is a great way to blow it up.
jcave is right on. The engines can easily destroy the drivelines. Then fuel economy is a facotr, longevity, etc.
The auto tranny can only handle so much torque, as can the standard clutches so to do extreme tuning you've got to invest in more than just a chip. I went with an approx. 50hp and 80lb-ft increase in my Ram and the mpg went up by 1 when towing, down by one when empty (heavier foot probably). I can tow with that and have no problems with the auto tranny (which I, my driver, and my wife prefer) or my EGT's getting out of hand.
the driveline, everything lasts longer."
HUMM, that's funny that seems to be the big complaint around here!
"My Auto is slipping" "My Allison tranny won't hold 5th gear" "My automatic is overheating"
Tell me why then do Ford and Dodge slightly de-tune their diesels for the auto trannies?? Maybe it's because they can't handle the stock torque ratings!!!
Show us a manufacture who doesn't have a lemon engine or tranny from time to time. Problem here is getting them to step up and fix it. This of course leads to another sore subject, quality trained technicians. At least with Cummins you're not stuck with dealership service. Not flaming dealerships necessarily, some must be good.
This PSD is my first automatic. Don't tow heavy loads so hopefully it will hold its own. Do miss the clutch and being able to select gears, however, the auto is a blast to drive.
I have a problem with certain people on here who use their truck for a workhorse and beat the piss out of them. Then turn around and complain that their trannies are failing. If you use a truck like that you have to expect things to wear out.
I have seen a stock Dodge tranny on a Cummins go 180k before any problems. But this person was real anal about maintenance and care of the truck. Plus he only towed a boat 2-3 times per year. And did some traveling unladen during the summer months. So it can be done. Just don't complain when you use the truck for work and things break.
Issue I have are those who mod them to death, blow it to smithereens, then whine.
Take care
Later,
Chevy came out with a new rig, 2000lbs more towing capacity than my Ford. I thought, this is the truck for me if it can pull more than the one that is working very well. The allison does not overheat, it even has a factory temp gauge, a very nice touch. But when they say it can go 22k combined that is what I expect, is that so unreasonable? It will not pull in fifth because of a GM computer program snafu. Allison has looked at the truck. We put a laptop in it and drove it loaded for half a day to collect data. By allisons own admission this is not how they want the trans to perform. I do not beat the trucks. You would never know the milage on the Ford without the odometer, it drives and looks nearly as new. You pegged me wrong.
When I bought the Ford there was NO power difference between auto and manual. The Ford message boards were showing trouble with the six speed, the dealer, a heavy truck dealer selling light duty pick-ups as well recomended this set-up. They were right it works. Chevy mis represented the truck, sure I'm pissed, it cost neary $40k. I suspect you would feel the same. Now factor in trying to make money with it while it sits in the shop.
As for the old C/K trucks, the older the better, our '92 K1500 is still going strong (knock on wood), even after my hubby's beating. My '84 K25 is my favorite - we're sticking a 400+ sb into that as a "toy". After the bad luck with our 2000 cc, I was about ready to get the '84 back out - but Chevy's doing a buy back on that one & we're ending up with a '02 cc diesel/allison combo...hope it runs! (To each his own, but I still like the C/Ks better.)
Can anyone tell me what type of mileage I can expect? The dealer said everyone he's spoken with is getting around 20. We were getting about 15 with the 454 in our 2000. THANKS.
I had a salesman tell me he had a customer getting 20pulling 20k lbs. Take it with a giant grain of salt.
They actually do downgrade the power output to save on the auto transmissions. They do measure at the flywheel with all accessories installed per SAE standards.
Ford really didn't de-tune as much as they didn't "increase" the latest autos to manual specs.
I hate to say it but..........I TOLD YOU SO. LOL!!
The reason you can't order a Cummins HO with an auto is because Dodge doesn't make one strong enough to handle the extra power. That will all change with the new heavy duty coming next fall.
V12Power:
I'm impressed with the tranny in the Ford lasting that long. Even being worked hard. I guess I misunderstood your previous post.
As for your Duramax, I hope that Allison gets everything straightened out for you. I'm not a Chevy fan at all. I hear some really nasty horror stories about them not standing behind a product. But I hope you can get somewhere with it all.
On a side note, does/has anybody here driven a D-max with a manual. Do they even make a manual for it? How does it compare to Ford and Dodge?
Just curious.
I have a reg cab long box F350,same wheelbase as an ext cab shortbox. Its not like the old days, these things all ride pretty good empty.