Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Firm isn't always bad, it just requires more attention to seat design than does a "fluffy" seat.
Okay, "uncomfortable" was a little strong. Less comfortable than the competition is a better way of saying it. That fact that you use your van as a work van definitely helps me to understand why you like Stow N Go so much. I would have picked the DCX vans over the Toyota and Honda as well if there was a constant need to take the second row seats out...
Hey, I just went to your carspace site and noticed your birthday is June 18... That is my birthday as well
Small world..
Not sure what the big deal is. If seat comfort is a big issue and you find your seats comfortable, be happy with your choice. If someone else doesn't agree or finds another seat more comfortable, so what? No harm in telling people the differences. They're gonna check them out in person at some point, anyway.
A friend of mine that works for GM told me something very interesting. He worked in seating a few years ago and GM was trying to improve their seats. When a GM engineer needs seats for a new vehicle, many times they almost design the seat from scratch for their specific vehicle. VW for example uses a basic frame/base for EVERY seat design for VW/Audi/Seat etc....then build on top of that base maybe adding motors or lumbar etc..but it's not a total redesign. That's why you get comfortable seats in a Jetta/Golf, even at $15k.
It doesn't sound good - no service records, was a lease vehicle. The 1998 Toyota models were ones prone to sludge, even when owners could prove reasonable oil changes. Lease vehicles tend to suffer more abuse and less frequent oil changes, so the possibility that this vehicle has or will sludge is much greater.
There is a Toyota sludge warranty, but it is for only 8 years and unlimitedm miles, so yours is up sometime this year, and to get the warranty repair, you have to prove reasonable maintenance. Cost to repair a sludged engine is in the $3000 - $4000 range at best.
If you have your heart sold on this vehicle, you need to see if the seller (I am assuming this is at a dealership) will offer a warranty against sludge OR have a mechanic you trust pull the valve cover to see if it is clean (the only way to check for sludge with certainty) -- this may cost $100 or so. If you try to use this as a negotiating tool, I would try to get the price significantly below the asking in order to cover a potential high $$$ engine repair.
My advice would be to not buy a used Toyota of this vintage unless the seller can produce a full maintenance history.
Scoti
Thanks so much for your reply. I think im going to take your words of wisdom. I was on that ether high, needed someone to knock some sense into me
What years are good for toyota siennas ???
Well its back to the hunt
Small world..
Didn't realize I put that down anywhere. Yes, we are getting close to adding another one on. Happy Birthday to you in case I don't get on around then.
IF the owner can prove it was properly maintained and can provide you these records you may still want to consider the earier models. Not every vehicle got sludge.
My guess is the Dodge/Chryslers, or Toyota/Honda, although a used Japanese will be much more worn in that price range.
Your thoughts?
(My 01 Acura TL has traction control and it makes me feel so much more confident / safe in winter driving.)
I know that Hondas have traction control going back to 2001.
On Toyota, Dodge and Chrysler (the other candidates, I don't know). Chrysler T&C currently has traction control on a couple higher trim levels.
Can anyone shed more light on what years and trim levels I may need to go for?
Thanks!
I would also look into the Ford Freestar/Mercury Monterey,as they are cheap, have that fold flat 3rd row, and some trims have AdvanceTrac (albeit probably none of the ex-fleet models) but others would probably tell you to look elsewhere.
A well used Honda Odyssey (mine with 90,000 miles is KBB valued at around $11,000) could be a good buy as it will last you far beyond 200K miles. (being a Honda, afterall)
Good luck!
I know GM had it on their Minivans starting 1998? maybe 1999.
I agree with your assessment of the Kia, I personally would rather drive an older Honda or Toyota, but some people like to own newer.
The 06's do look much improved (drove one when we shopped recently), but I agree with you that I need more time before I buy Kia/Hyundai...
I would say that the average vehicle will get about 150k miles. I would not say that just because its a Honda it will get 200k, there are just too many factors that play into the longevity of a car especially when you buy one with higher mileage or one that is used. I would say 150k and anything you get after that would be bonus.
In my area the price of Toyotas have been dropping. For 15 or under some examples at local dealerships are :
02 CE with 55k is 12k.
00 XLE with 69k is 11k.
00 LE 75k is 9500.
Honda Oddyssey
2000 LX 65k miles asking price 11,950.
2003 LX 68k miles asking price 14,900.
Dodge Grand Caravans
There are TONS of off rentals right now, one listed is an SE for 12,999 with 29k on it and its certified (so the warranty is 8 year/80k powertrain, 3 month 2,000 maxium care, 24 hour roadside assistance). There are several with under 20k for 14ish. SXT's with under 20k are listing at the top of your range at 14,995. If you really wanted to go cheap, they have a gazillion of 2000-2001's with around 50-60k on them for about $8,000.
Kia's can be picked up right and left, loaded for around 10k, even under if you are patient and look around.
I have to agree. I was extremely disappointed when the new model came out and the pricing was higher than Kia's normal pricing. I think that was the biggest mistake that they made (Hyundai also). They could have sold TONS MORE if they would have kept their target market the same.
In fact we still have many sitting on our lots around here untouched. I have seen ONE actually owned and driving on the road here. When I went into the Kia dealership they kept pushing the van even saying they could take a TON off the price just to get them out on the road.
People are not going to spend as much as a Toyota knowing the resale value is going to be horrible. I would love to wait one year and then pick up a used one for way way less.
What kind of deals have you been able to get?
What was your buying experience like?
Where did you buy from?
How do you like the Quest?
This "June Offer" clearly states the $6,000 rebate is off of MSRP .... I am sure I can get them to do around invoice and then have them take the 6K off.
Any suggestions, ideas, opinions, etc will be GREATLY appreciated ..
Thank You,
HondaKid
Scary. First of all it was 91 Degrees out. The vans were sitting in the sun, so they were a bit hotter. The SXT had a HORRIBLE shutter when I turned on the AC. It almost killed the engine it was so draining. It also was NOT pushing out what I would call cold air, at all. I drove the van for almost 45 minutes and even with front and rear AC the van still felt warm.
With the AC running the van had absolutely NO power. I had to push the pedal all the way to the floor to get it to even want to move. Ridiculous.
Next was the SE. It actually performed better than the SXT, but was still struggling to cool off the entire van. It had only front AC, but it did BETTER than the SXT. The seats in the SXT and SE were cheap.
The smaller van, well it was interesting. It actually had some pep (maybe because it had the V6 and wasn't carrying the longer wheelbase with it?? The AC still struggled, I thought, but was able to cool the van down.
The front was invisible to me. When trying to park it and such I could not tell were my front end was. That was a bit different to me, I have been driving cars with visable front ends.
I had a hard time finding the controls and operating the radio (I saw that mentioned above). The readout on the 05's was almost impossible to make out. As a newbie in a vehicle it would take a while to get used to those controls. The model I drove did not hava audio controls on the steering wheel, which really was stupid.
The speakers STUNK!!! I don't know why Dodge even wasted their time with those.
Other than that they were nice to drive. I was HIGHLY concerned with the AC issue in the SXT. My friends bought an 04 in which the alternator was dead within the first 5,000 miles. The doors, oh the doors in the SXT were power and they upon first approach got stuck. We had to manual pull them to get them to open, but they worked after that.
By the way, they are advertising used SXT Grands with around 15k on them for 14k. Brand new 06 Carvans (not the SXT's, short wheelbase) for 11k.
As for the radio, the Grand SXT has the better speakers (maybe the SWB SXt as well). It isn't the best OEM system, but far from the worst I've had.
Last time I was at dealer for oil change they performed a TBS adding a shield to the condensor, to protect it from damage.
Ford Fairlane Concept
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
Now here they (johnny) come (lately) again with a car to 'replace their minivan.' Yet, the thing has regular (not sliding) doors. Sorry, but sliders make the minivan...without them, you have something else, but not a minivan.
You can get convenience, comfort, power, 5+ seating, etc, in pretty much any other type of vehicle, but only one has the sliders. Call it a people mover all you want, call it a replacement for your minivan too, but don't expect it to do the #s in sales that minivans do, bcuz there's enuff competition for this new type of vehicle..plus, ford isn't known for making big vehicles that are good on gas, so to me this is just another Freestyled-attempt to defray attention from their moronic and eroding leadership decisions of the past 6+ yrs..
I consider my Freestyle as a Ford 500 station wagon, no matter what Ford wants to call it. Not too tall, not to short, and I'd rather have regular car doors and not sliding doors, which are either too difficult to close unless automatic, slow to open/close, and present more problems down the road than regular doors. The Freestyle's 2nd row seats flip forward, and it's easy to access the 3rd row when I need to. I just prefer the driving characteristics of a car.
Motor Week did a comparison of the Freestyle vs the Odyssey. Most people would say that of course the Freestyle isn't even close, but then it did pretty well in the article. Better and driving and handling but lost mostly for space, so if you don't need the space, then cars like the Freestyle, Fairlane, Edge and other crossovers are a good alternative to the full sized minivan.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050502/FREE/505020705&Searc- hID=73248434937503
"What it all comes down to is this: We look at which vehicle fulfills its purpose better, not necessarily which is the fastest or nimblest or sportiest. Sure, all those things matter, and even contribute to making a vehicle safer (the ultimate family-friendly feature). To this end the Ford does have one big leg up on the Honda, especially with its available all-wheel drive. But in the end, the win goes to the Odyssey, by a hair—and that’s nothing to be embarrassed about."
I did notice in the new GM van (pontiac) that it has the rail system just like the Dodge GC.
There does not seem to be many forums to discuss the Entourage. "Performance" or "Prices Paid" discussions like I have used before for other vehicles.
Has the van come out? It is limited to certain areas of the country ? Is it too early or are folks & the industry just not too excited about it?
Thank You
Addressing some previous negative posts -
(1) Why would anyone consider the Uplander w/ the other options that are out there? The simple answer, unfortunately for GM, is price (not MSRP necessarily, but price after discounts, negotiation, etc).
(2) "It's ugly." Granted, it's not as "beautiful" as your typical minivan, but I like the "SUV-like" front end and larger wheels. Also, the interior is nicely done (features the "next" generation GM interiors... similar to the new Tahoe, Yukon, etc... much nicer than what we've seen from GM in a long time).
(3) Sc00bs mentioned poor crash test results and dexcool / 3.4L problems... I think he's out in left field here (maybe thinking about an older Venture?). The Uplander has excellent crash test results and a 3.5L (or 3.9L) engine that, while not state of the art, is very proven & reliable.
Hyundai Entourage (2007+)
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
You can get a DCX van with stow and go for just as much of a discount
That's a good point. I guess I was primarily thinking about the Honda and Toyota (in terms of being more expensive @ point of sale). The DCX, as well as the Ford, Kia, etc can all probably be had for close to what you'll pay for the GM van.
If the S&G is a critical feature for you, the DCX is the clear choice. For me, it wasn't... I liked the seats in the Uplander a little better & simply folding them over or pulling them out (albeit they are pretty heavy) seemed to provide more than sufficient cargo carrying options.
In general, when looking at everything, I simply preferred the Uplander over the other options in that price range (DCX, Ford, Kia, Mazda, etc) for various reasons. All had their pros & cons... but I liked the GM drivetrain & interior a little better, so that's what I went with.
The discounts / deals on the GM vans don't seem to be that great right now, but given their slow sales I'd expect that to change pretty soon to clear out the 06's.
Biggest dissapointment I have is that ABS is optional on the short wheel base versions, and I could find only one such short wheel base minivan equipped with ABS in an internet inventory search of all the 10-15 Dodge or Chrysler dealers in my area. And that one is gray, which is not a preferred color for us. Bummer! DC should make ABS standard on at least the upper end short wheel base models (IE Caravan SXT). Don't understand why the dealers are not ordering more of them with ABS. ABS is standard on all versions of the long wheel base models, however.
The deals are just amazingly good. I can get a comparably equipped short wheel base Caravan similar to our 1996 Caravan for about $4K less than we paid for our 1996 as a leftover new minivan in March 1997! About $6k off MSRP
We might just hold off a few months, or even up to a year and keep checking the available stock and work a deal when I see what we want at one of the local dealers. Otherwise, could go with the long wheel base version, but it will be my wife's call as I am not sure whe wants to drive a longer minivan than she has now.