Honda Element

crv16 · February 2003

You have to remember where the Element was displayed -- DETROIT -- home of the big 3. I've read posts before about this kind of thing happening to non big-3 cars. People intentionally scratch cars as a form of protest.

ateixeira · February 2003

I bet disgruntled Aztec salesmen are the ones cratching that cladding! ;-)

Payload is 675 lbs IIRC, says so right on the door jamb.

-juice

sarahb3 · February 2003

I've had my Element (4wd, EX, auto) for 4 weeks now and I love it! Have 1200 miles on it and average 23mpg. Have not had problems with the cladding,seats rocking, floor bubbling. Yes, the front seats are a bit low, but when I have passengers in the back they can see out the windshield "above" me and they loved the "safari" feel!

I had my Element in Canaan Valley WV during the President's Weekend snowstorm. The vehicle did great. It handled well on the snow-covered roads and only got stuck when the snow got so deep that the vehicle "high-centered". The Jeep Cherokee in front of me and the RAV 4 behind me had the same problem, I might add. Wading through snow (and the melting slush that followed a few days later) and then getting into the vehicle with the plastic floor and no carpeting to worry about was another pleasure. Oh, and I thought the "suicide" doors were a neat idea but now that I have them I am delighted with how EASY they make my life, since I always seem to be hauling something in and out of the car.

Attention "Meinrad": As for power, my husband and I had the car loaded up with all of our ski gear, what seemed like a month's worth of clothing, coolers, etc. and when we drove on the interstate through western Maryland we cruised up the big hills at 55mph with no problem. It's possible we could have gone faster, but since the engine is still young I'm trying to not stress it. Suffice to say the car did not feel underpowered in the least.

The only quirk I'm experiencing is that the plastic 'finger hold' in the rear window/hatch keeps coming out when I pull the hatch closed. Also, I'm really surprised that a vehicle marketed towards the outdoors crowd doesn't come with a interior built-in outdoor temperature display (which often appear in other vehicles in the rear view mirror or some similar place). Those are pretty minor quirks, eh?

-Sarah

gee35coupe · February 2003

They seem to make power everwhere. I have an Accord with the same engine. Never have to go above 3500 rpm even to accellerate briskly. Coming from a 2000 Civic SI it's a totally different animal.

ateixeira · February 2003

Sarah: not to minimize your experience in any way, but the highest peak near MD is at about 3000 ft above sea level. Someone out west might laugh at that, especially in the Rockies.

I bring that up because altitude causes a loss of power because the air is less dense. Only a turbo with excess efficiency will not lose power once you're a mile high or more.

You can get an afermarket mirror with a compass and a temp gauge, they're not too hard to install. I think Donnelly makes some, yeah, check here:

http://www.donnelly.com/products/interiorvisionsystems/default.as- p

gee35coupe: no replacement for displacement. The 2.4l has 41% more of it.

-juice

autoshow · February 2003

I was at the auto show and saw the hideous scratches. These were not simple, rub out scratches! There were thousands of them, all over anything plastic on the car. They occurred when I simply leaned in to see the motor! It was unbelievable, and certainly the main topic of discussion for anyone who walked up to the car.

I personally asked the Honda rep if they planned to do anything about the scratch issue I saw. He said that sometimes they make changes, but he is unaware of any. Furthermore, he told me that the car displayed was the upgraded plastic. The other model that was on display did not have this, and it was so damaged, they literally had to remove it from the display floor.

There were many other models of Honda's at the show. I also examined them and they did not have ANY of these scratches. Honda really needs to fix this issue, as it made a great vehicle look bad, and now I'm having second thoughts about my upcoming purchase.

ateixeira · February 2003

It's possible to get scratch-resistant cladding. Forester, Avalanche, Grand Cherokee, even CR-V owners haven't complained about the cladding on those.

Maybe they just need to change suppliers.

-juice

canpam · February 2003

I am not a Honda owner but have taken a great interest in the Element. I finally got a glimpse of one and it looks good to me--even better in all black. It looks like it will sell really well any near a beach. Although I am no where near a beach I would consider this vehicle if my family grows any more. I wonder will Honda take away some of the cladding to make it more appealing to older drivers? I still think its a great looking vehicle, just wondering?

ateixeira · February 2003

will Honda take away some of the cladding to make it more appealing to older drivers?

No, and the answer is right there in the question. Manfacturers want to draw in younger buyers, people that will buy 10 more new Hondas in the future and influence possibly dozens of other purchases.

Those are the demographics they target, but of course they'd be happy to take anyone's money. :-)

I read a while back that the median age of Civic buyers was 36 for the last generation, but had moved up to 42 for this one (my numbers are approximate, that's what I recall). That had them alarmed and was part of the reason for the Element's extroverted styling.

Marketing is a funny thing. The Focus sells in lower volumes than the Escort did, but it's still considered a huge success because the buyers are a lot younger and they came with fewer incentives. Never mind the recalls.

-juice

autoshow · February 2003

At the auto show they had an element that was completely hard-cased-- no cladding. The entire vehicle was made out of the same material, no plastic at all.
It was slick, but I haven't seen any similar ones elsewhere, and it was behind ropes and we weren't permitted to see inside it. It had a special name-- I can look through my pictures if anyone is interested.

Anakin · February 2003

You're probably referring to the panel van concept with the flame job and ground effects. It was pretty slick.

ateixeira · February 2003

I think that was more of a show car to demo the potential of aftermarket accessories. IIRC it was sort of a mobile concert stage.

-juice

PS It could have just been painted plastic panels, you can't tell if it was sheetmetal

ateixeira · February 2003

Found it, it's the Studio E concept:

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/83142/page022.html

-juice

Anakin · February 2003

I'll save time, for the lazy.

ateixeira · February 2003

I bet is still has the plastic. You can see the seams that divide the sheet metal from the plastic on the regular Element.

I like the beefy rims and the window tint.

-juice

slow43 · February 2003

Are the Elements door/body seams larger to allow for expansion and contraction like the Saturn plastic panels?

dindak · February 2003

Saw my first 2 Elements on the road this week. Both of them were driven by older people, one a 40-45 year old woman, the other by a 60+ woman.

I somehow think this vehicle is appealing to older folks who think it's cool rather than the younger people it's suppose to be marketed to.

Just an observation.

sarahb3 · February 2003

juice: I know all too well that western MD's hills don't compare to the Rockies (I'm a devoted skier living in the mid-Atlantic!), but Meinrad had asked for people's impressions of the Element's hill climbing ability while loaded with gear AND said that s/he lives in western PA, which is topographically almost identical to western MD. So I felt that my impression would be helpful. It obviously doesn't apply to what one may or may not experience when driving in western US mountains.
- Sarah

meinrad · February 2003

Thanks Sarah, your impression of the power seems to be echoed by others I've found on other boards.

At this point I'm feeling more comfortable and don't think it's going to be an issue.

My wife may be stopping to drive one today as the dealer she passes for work pulled 3 off the truck yesterday afternoon. I don't know what models they were though.

ateixeira · February 2003

Good point, Sarah. I hadn't notice he was in PA.

Saw not one but my first two (!) Elements on the road today. They really stand out.

-juice

vadn1 · February 2003

So, I decided that the element has caught my eye. Now it comes down to which model wo choose, the DX or EX and is 4wd worth having. I hear there is more maitenance involved in a 4wd car, but how does this work with the RT 4wd. Also, is manual better than Automatic. I live in a small town and work is only 1/4 mile away from home, No traffic ever. To get anywhere I have to drive on freeways. Live in florida, so I only see rain, no snow. I do plan on using the element on small dirt roads or on the beach about 5% of the time I would be driving the mini-ute. Any suggestions on which model would be better?

anonymousposts · February 2003

If you are going to be driving on the beach I would opt for the 4WD. I had a 2WD RAV4 and tried some sand driving and it didn't like it too much. And since you aren't in traffic I would go for the 5-speed for increased MPG and increased power. Not to mention sticks are just more fun to drive. DX vs. EX? I would have to get the EX for the extra power stuff, the skylight, and the stereo. But if that stuff isn't important to you then save your $$$.

varmint · February 2003

I agree that the manual will give you more power and more fun, but Honda has geared it so low the mpg is actually lower. For fuel economy, get the automatic.

anonymousposts · February 2003

My mistake. I would still take the 5-speed for more control and power. Also, we will have to wait a few months to compare a 5-speed 4WD EX to the automatic since Honda is waiting before offering that combination.

ateixeira · February 2003

EX has ABS and A/C standard, and yeah I'd get 4WD for your intended use.

Extra maintenance should entail a rear differential that will need gear oil replaced every 60k (maybe 30k), but it's just two bolts and shouldn't be any harder than an oil change. Not sure if RT4WD requires any more maintenance besides that.

-juice

jnes · March 2003

Go EX!!
We looked hard at this before we bought and went for the EX and after driving our car for 2 months now I am so glad we did. The DX has no radio; the Honda radio is one of the most intuitive radios I have seen in a car. The DX has no air conditioning; since the Element has no carpeting, there is nothing to absorb moisture. The aircondioning condenser comes on whenever you turn on the defroster to suck the excess mointure out. After leaving 2 dogs in the Element while I shop it can be pretty foggy. This is a nice feature. The EX has ABS brakes and the DX does not. Add to all this the several small features that the EX has, sun roof, plug-ins, etc... and your $2,000 spent to get the EX is well spent.

Just my thoughts.
Joan
http://www.eburg.com/~jneslund/matt/Honda_Element/

anonymousposts · March 2003

Those pictures make us want an Element. They are so cool.

miker000 · March 2003

I am considering buying an Element and I have 3 key questions: 1) Has anyone had experience driving the AWD in snowy northern areas? How was it? 2) Does the boxy shape make it difficult to drive in high cross winds? 3)How are the headlights?

Thanks

jnes · March 2003

I checked back cause the guys said my pics were cool, but since I am here again I will answer your 3 questions as well.

1. Our winter in Washington State has been mild, but I do read other boards where people in the North East have been loving their Elements, even in heavy snow. They say that the Element is wonderful in icy conditions.

2. To be honest I am surprised how stable the Element is in the wind. I gave up a van for the E and the Element is very stable in wind, surprisingly so.

3. Grin, this is why I had to post.... This is why I love the E - the headlights are wonderful. They are wide and bright but have a shelf on the light that somehow keeps the lights from glowing into the eyes of others. On my other Element Forums, people have changed out the bulbs with even brighter halogyn ones and they say that the lights are even better.

If you want I can email you the other boards that I read for the E.

tpat3 · March 2003

The Boston Globe auto writer, Royal Ford, had great things to say about the Element in the sloppy stuff. We've lots of snow here the past few weeks and he said it handled snow covered roads with drifts very well and stopped great when he stomped the brakes on an icy downhill.
The link isn't up for some reason right now or I could't find it, but it's in the March 2 Sunday Globe.
He has previously said how stable it is and thinks safety overall is very good. Good luck.

rslarner · March 2003

I have a couple questions on the Element:

1. Is there room to sleep inside for camping? Are the seats easily removable?

2. Do you have to open both doors to get into the back seat, or does the back door open independently?

3. Does this vehicle make sense for a new baby expecting couple?

Thanks!
Ross

ateixeira · March 2003

I can answer #2 - the back door is not indy, you have to open the front first.

Take your stroller and baby seat with you to try them out. I think the small tail gate would make a good diaper changing platform, and you'd even have a small rain cover.

-juice

varmint · March 2003

The front and rear seats can be folded flat from front to back; forming a built in bed. The rear seats can be folded up against the sides fairly easily. Removing them is also possible, but I'm told the process is not quite as easy.

utanapishtim · March 2003

There's an accessory which adds a tent extension onto the back of the Element. The rear gate's clamshell bottom door extends the floor perfectly when open, so you have more room. I'm sure it would be great for warm weather, but not so great to open the cab in the winter (then again, people who camp in winter must be masochists anyway). There's a Honda place right by my house which has a DX indoors, I'll fold up the seats ( a 10 second job)and let you know about floor space (I'm 6'2").

As a note to others considering the Element, the room in there is crazy! I'll be test driving a 4x4 version Friday with my folks, and let you all know about the feel and road noise.

utanapishtim · March 2003

You can grab the stock Honda items online from a couple different dealers, who sell them MUCH closer to dealer price, and ship the USPS anywhere in the US. I priced out a whole kit hypothetically (Remote entry, alarm, bungees, cargo net, wheel locks, splash gaurds) and the savings were VERY impressive. I looked at HandA but check through the back messages in the Element forums for another site or two.

meinrad · March 2003

Having a baby is one reason we're excited about the element. Everything is washable, which is a good thing for babies, considering they make a mess, spit up, and all that stuff. As they get older, they will undoubtedly get muddy and then go climbing in the car.

gee35coupe · March 2003

The ultimate baby carriage. The may be bad for the image Honda was going after but hey talk about a huge new market. Everybody has a baby sooner or later.

meinrad · March 2003

It is funny the market that seems to be buying these things. My friends 67 year old father is buying one soon, after the lease on his current car is up. I've never seen him snowboard or anything, so I'm pretty sure he isn't the target demographic.

ateixeira · March 2003

I guess those unemployed 22 year olds can't afford them after all. ;-)

Actually, now that I think about it you could put a child seat on one side and lay the other flat for a nice surface to change diapers, with open-wide doors easing access.

Later on, though, when the kids start to grow up, it'll be a bit of a pain to let them out whenever you drop them off because you have to remove your seat belt.

-juice

gee35coupe · March 2003

magnetophone · March 2003

Well I'm in the under 25 demographic, and I want one! I think it depends on where you live...

I live in a city where the median age is 30, so it's only natural to see a young person driving an Element.

In Palm Beach, Florida, I bet they'd be old.

gee35coupe · March 2003

I'd buy one if I had room for it in my driveway. It's kinda crowded right now.

hondas2000fan · March 2003

I've seen many posts here stating that you get the skylight on the EX. You actually get the skylight on the 4wd models, including the DX. The 2wd models will not have the skylight, even on the EX.

Thanks.

ateixeira · March 2003

Then the passenger has to un-do his/her seatbelt. Either way you can't skip that step.

I noticed even the 3rd row in the big GM vehicles (Tahoe) use those built-in seatbelts, to make them easier to remove. I think this is something Honda should copy for the front seats on the Element.

-juice

gee35coupe · March 2003

They don't have to pay for the car. Inconvenience them instead of you. That was my point. If the passenger does the seatbelt thing it's no concern of your own.

philly2002 · March 2003

For those of you wishing to install Honda Parts and acessories independently PLEASE be aware that Honda will not offer a Honda Warranty. Accessories must be installed by an authorized Honda Dealer to qualify.

Many of the dealers know about Honda accessory discounters and some are willing to negotiate for competitive pricing.

rerenov8r · March 2003

Kind of a non-issue. The accessories ARE covered by a 12 month, 12K mile warranty REGARDLESS.

Yes, if installed "at or prior to" delivery by dealer Honda sweetens the warranty to run with the full vehicle warranty BUT the odds of any warranty creeping up with accessories after a YEAR is very, very small.

ateixeira · March 2003

The passenger would be my wife (or even me), and we pay for the car together.

Lemme guess - you're single! ;-)

-juice

madski · March 2003

I think this car is perfect for a new baby, or, as we have, a 2 1/2 year old. The back makes a perfect changing area, and, if you were to buy a minivan (which I was considering) you would have to slide open the rear door just as you will have to open the rear "suicide" door. It would be nice if it opened independently, yet it makes sense for safety of the kids. The other thing that would be great is if the rear windows opened more, not just the little pop out kind. Well, same case as the minivan. We tried the carseat on our test drive, and it was fine. Now, I am just waiting for my lease to be up to get into my Element EX. And, I am in my late 30s, and feel that Honda targeted one market, not realizing that it would appeal to more! Ciao.

ateixeira · March 2003

That's not really an improvement - child safety locks have been mandatory for a decade or more. Neither of my rear doors open from the inside.

Plus you have a choice with swing-open doors, just flick a switch.

However you could say it's less of a trade-off with little kids because you always get out first anyway, for their safety. It'll only be an inconvenience when they're older and you do drop-offs.

By the way, the Mazda MPV and the upcoming Toyota Sienna have rear windows that open, it's pretty cool to see vans that have 'em.

-juice

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