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Comments
Prediction: This blind spot WILL cause more accidents, either in a parking lot, or on the highway. People who buy this car are not going to be experienced in driving a panel van.
Bob
There seems to be a good share of parking lot accidents regardless of blind spots because so many drivers just do not pay attention to their surroundings. You might have to be a little more careful in the Element, but I believe most good drivers will know they need to take more care in turning and backing up. On your side, I suppose the blind spots will make it easier for careless drivers to get into trouble.
I will be at the NY Auto Show this Saturday and hopefully there will be an Element on display with both seats stowed. I'll try to check out how much rear window can be seen above the seats and how large the side-view mirrors are.
I like the tail gate, the suicide-style doors with a huge opening, the spare tire that's stored inside, the hole for tall cargo, and the price range ($16-21k is impressive).
Dislikes? Seats only 4, this takes it off my list (2 kids and a nanny, need 5 seats).
Note to hosts: can we rename the topic "Honda Element" now that we know the real name?
-juice
Just how safe are those suicide doors going to be?
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The "suicide" rear door won't open before the front door is open, so it shouldn't be a big concern. It'll be like pickups and the Saturn coupe.
I say ditch the hole but offer a gargantuan moonroof, like the CR-V Open Air that people raved and raved about.
You could carry long cargo on the standard roof rack, or by leaving the partial hatch back open, so the hole seems gimmicky.
-juice
Honda deserves credit for taking a chance on the Element. But when people see one on the lot next to a CR-V, which vehicle will they go for? The CR-V is not as exciting, but it doesn't look like Super Mario's car either. How many young buyers really need an extreme-looking car that they can spray out with a hose, anyway?
I like the Model X, but I'm weird. It's a good value, but it's feature content is close to the CR-V and it's only marginally less expensive. I know it's a "lifestyle" vehicle, but do you guys think 50,000 buyers a year will go for it? Or is it Honda's "Aztek?"
I'm going to be watching the Element closely. I really do think it's cool, in a bizarre kind of way. Bet it'll look good in silver.
I hope it's a hit with BUYERS, not just people who go to autoshows.
With the Aztek, the designers used a trowel.
Bob
On the other hand, I've seen lots of pictures of Elvis drawn with an airbrush. Most of them are on black velvet...;)
-jim
Um, Jim? Me about 11 years ago. Having an eye catching car that is useful to boot is what every young guy wants.
One CR-V owner is complaining loudly about it being $2k cheaper.
Pontiac took a Montana and removed utility to create the Aztec. Honda took a CR-V and added utility to create the Element. It's the exact opposite.
-juice
I agree that the Element has some things going for it, Honda engineering being #1. It's a bona-fide "lifestyle activity vehicle" without all the testosterone.
BUT is it cool? Will it pull sales away from the Vibe/Matrix twins or the X-Terra? IMO those vehicles are more hip and masculine, less Japanimation.
I guess the sales will tell the tale. I hope it does well, as it might inspire other manufacturers to aim squrely for unique niche vehicles.
I'm still waiting for my AWD four-door convertable that seats five and costs under $20,000...
Since Subaru has been putting the same mechanicals in a ~$24000 vehicle that they are putting in a ~$17000 vehicle for years, you don't have a problem with what Honda is doing.
I guarantee if Honda put the engine and ATTS (and whatever else made it somewhat unique) from a Prelude (when it existed) in a lower priced vehicle there'd be plenty of people who wouldn't like it.
Because these are SUVs rather sport coupes or whatever doesn't mean people don't care as much about their vehicle and can't be upset that the mechanicals from their ~$23000 vehicle are most likely going to be the same as in a ~$16000 vehicle.
I do like the Matrix, and think it will succeed. But it may be too conventional for some. I think it'll appeal to a totally different buyer.
Thing is, Element is a niche vehicle, not many Hondas are. You can't think of it in the traditional sense, comparing it to mainstream cars. People will buy it BECAUSE it is not mainstream.
You want mainstream? Honda will be happy to sell you a CR-V or an Accord. They've got those bases covered. If it were a mainstream SUV it would compete directly with the CR-V!
ticktock: I disagree with the mechanicals being the same, because Element won't have AWD or even ABS at those low end prices, and to me that makes a huge difference in the way the powertrain performs, going and stopping.
Honda was smart. They took a basic platform and engine, cut costs where young men most likely won't notice (5th seat, carpets), and wrapped it up in a package their parents will HATE. That is exactly what they want!
-juice
Old folks hate loud music. Mazda MP3 reached cult status among 25 year old. Well, almost.
The New Beetle is front engine, front drive! It's a sin to contradict tradition like that, old folks might say. Yet they were on E-Bay for $25k for a while, with long waits.
Just a thought.
-juice
But since when is that anything new?
TickTock - Let's take a more reasonable example. Let us say that Honda took the engine from the S2000 along with the same slick shifting 6 speed gear box and put it into a coupe (like the Prelude). Then they charged 29K for the car. How would S2K owners feel about it? Probably not too bad. They still have the drop top, the rock solid chassis, and the race inspired brakes.
The same deal goes for the CR-V and Element debate. A CR-V at 23K includes a host of common features. At 21K, the Element still has a plastic interior with a rubber floor, no moonroof, and who knows what for equipment.
Here's my guess, based on what I've seen from past and current Honda models:
At $16K + change, the Element offers the 2.4L engine without AWD. There are no tinted windows, the interior is completely plastic and only comes in one color (probably a gray), and there's a 4 speaker stereo with cassette. It should have power windows, locks, and maybe cruise control. The retractable roof panel may be an option. Side air bags will also be an option. ABS is not an option.
Add AWD and you raise the price well above $17K. This would be the LX model that competes with the CR-V LX. Note that the CR-V is less than 2K more.
At $20K, you get an upgraded stereo, tinted windows, a single disk (or possibly mp3 player) with six speakers, alloy wheels, the retractable roof panel, interior colors that match the exterior, ABS, and side airbags. AWD is indluded, but an automatic transmission bumps the price to $21K. You still have a hard plastic interior, a donut spare, fewer seats, less sound dampening, and a host of other missing refinements.
You ain't saving much. And you aren't getting the same level of refinement the CR-V offers.
I agree with you that the Element is a niche vehicle with strong appeal for certain buyers. I'm curious to see if Honda can find 50,000 of these folks in the first year of production. It seems like a lot to me.
Also, if parents will HATE the looks of the Element, why would they help their children obtain one? I think many young people buying new vehicles rely on their parents to at least co-sign for them.
Varmint -"charming in a funky way" - perfect description.
jim
and that implies "eternal goodness," even if the styling seems strange. Besides, the parents won't be driving it, the kids will.
Bob
jim, looks like you'll be waiting forever for that AWD four-door convertable that seats five and costs under $20,000...
OK, it may not be beautiful, like an Accord or Acura RSX, but IMHO it is a really nice-looking vehicle. In any case, function rules over form with a vehicle like this and the Honda engineers have executed it perfectly-- washable interior, removable rear seats (and form a bed!), chip and scratch-proof side panels and bumpers, huge entry area, etc.
They may be targeting this vehicle to males younger than 25, but like nwng (post 62) I have a family too. My wife and I are 29 and we have two kids (4.5 & 2), and I think this would be the perfect car for us. I even showed the pictures to my wife and she loved it too!
I admit, when I saw pictures of the Model X, I wasn't too sure about it, but I really like the changes they made. I liked what I saw, the minute I saw it. And I've been huge Honda fan for 15 years. I've always admired them, not only for their reliability and performance, but also for their commitment to safety, the environment and excellent quality for the price.
My first ever Honda was a 1994 Accord that my wife and I bought in 1998. Although, our time with it was short-lived, since we need something a little bigger when our daughter was born two years ago. We really wanted a Honda, I found the driving position of the CR-V cumbersome and wasn't too impressed with the crash test results. And the Odyssey was too big for us and the price it was commanding was way out of our range. We ended up with a Mazda MPV--our first new car. I like it OK, but I sure wish the Element had been out then. Oh well--by December, it's out with the MPV and in with the Element!!
My 23 year-old son drives a '96 Subaru Impreza Outback (my choice), and my 18 year-old daughter drives a '92 Prelude (her choice, not mine). I (we) paid for the vehicles, and so far no problems, and everyone is happy.
Bob
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
After years of producing well made, non descript, bland, cars,( except the NSX, RSX, etc.) Honda has decided to take styling risk. I applaud Honda and think the New Element will be a smashing success. We are in the Golden age of automobiles. There have never been such a wonderful variety of choices at an affordable price point.
I only wish the Element was made in Japan where the quality still seem to score better with JD Powers. The CRV was always made in Japan until 2002 and Consumer Reports rated it the most reliable sport utility made.
We also can thank the strong dollar for foreign cars offering the most value now. And it should get even better.
I am so looking forward to test driving the new Element and considering it as a purchase option.
Lets hear it for the Element which speaks to the Individual who is not afraid to stand out from the crowd.
You're right Brandon, Honda is to be commended for stepping up with something delightfully different.
I can't wait to see one of these babies in the "flesh." It's gotta be a sight to behold.
I wonder if they left the "sunroof" in the back of the vehicle because the roof over the front seat is reinforced to compensate for the lack of a b-pillar between the front and back doors. I don't think I'd ever need a cargo gate on the top of a vehicle, but I love a good moonroof!
-jim
Another possibility is simply the lack of space. You can't have two pieces of glass sliding into the same space. The roof isn't long enough to accomodate both.
-jim
Honda should have offered a large glass roof with Element.
Anybody notice the rear seat pushed rearwards? Lots of legroom for the second row, and may have been done to improve side impact crash safety.
Well, Bob and I are hitting the NY show tommorrow so we'll definitely take a close look and try to share some interesting observations.
Jim: I bought my first new car without my parents help, but interesting thought. Even if most people do get help, I'm sure there are 50,000 out there than can afford the Element by themselves.
Subzero may have a point. It may attract extroverts that would otherwise buy an XTerra or Matrix.
Know what's funny? The washable interior is IMO the best innovation. It's genious. Our kid has a food fight with herself every time we're in the car, and I'm the one who loses every time!
To be able to just hose that out? Are you kidding me? Brilliant.
-juice
LOL i agree i love the washable interior because it makes cleaning much easier. u wouldnt even need a vacuum a broom would work fine.
BTW, the "search on topics" feature does not link to this topic.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
since you are so fortunate to be able to go the show, do me a favor and grab some pizza, soda and ice cream from the cafe and sat in the element, ooops... and watch how the Honda reps clean up the floor. And make sure you get a biggie size soda.
Stadium seating? Truly, really, much higher floor for the 2nd row vs. the 1st. Maybe 6" higher?
The map pockets in the doors were neat, had drain holes, and were really huge. The dash design was totally unique, very avant garde. The shifter grows out of the dash like a tree, or an old Alfa, or the new Civic Si.
Overhangs were very short. It's probably not as long as the CR-V outside, but still very, very roomy inside. Taller, too, I'd guess. We couuld not get in it.
The plastic cladding is not painted, so scratches can be buffed out. Again, see my toddler if you don't think that matters, or her cousin who decided to "draw" with his Power Ranger on the side of our car. Huge bonus.
Suicide doors open wide, but rear access is still easier in the CR-V. Better for young men and their friends than for a family, IMO. I think it only had 4 seat belts, too.
Biggest difference? SEVENTEEN inch rims! 17", that is not a typo. Big tires that fill the wheel wells, too. CR-V needs these big time. I went with Bob and we both agreed this is more tough-truck vs. CR-V's car-like demeanor.
The rear moonroof is big and they say it'll be standard. It actually serves back seat passengers, too, pretty neat. Like the Outback, sort of, if you've seen those.
I can't say enough good things about it. I'm very impressed. Tons of character, spunk, style, moxy. Hard to believe given how vanilla the Accord and Civic are that this comes from the same company (no offense, those are fine cars).
Plus, it looks even better in person than in photos. It will turn heads. Be ready to get lots of feedback, both good and bad. You will have people's undivided attention, not unlike the Beetle and PT Cruiser when they were new.
Thumbs up!
-juice
Speaking of tires, the Pilot uses 235/70x16.
Bob
-juice
It is interesting to note that Pilot has a more truck-like tire profile (almost 6.5" rubber), about 0.5" more than that in MDX.
I hope Element gets (atleast) 16" and that also goes into CRV. I recently saw the new CRV with larger wheel and wider tire, it looked good.