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Or perhaps it's a room issue. Perhaps the accord engine is slightly more compact.The blunt short nose makes for a small engine bay.
Ditto for the trans. Perhaps the flat floor puts space for mechanical components at a premium.
Boy Rope, you sure think the Element is going to be slow!
I hope not. If the El is too slow or too small I guess I'll get a pilot or a used MDX but my work will destroy the interiors of those vehicles...
I can't wait for a reputable third party to do a test/review with some numbers..
The gentleman's bet is on...C'mon Element!
Don't fail us...
now, up to date...all honda accessories carry a 12 month/12000 mile warranty, or the remainder of the original factory warranty, whichever is greater, as with all honda replacement parts.
The only difference is on the intake:
-Dual Stage on the CRV ( gives the Torque peak at a lower rpm)
-Single Stage type on the Accord and Element ( Cheaper$$..)
Power is almost the same:
CRV: 160HP @ 6000rpm
Accord ,Element: 160HP @ 5500rpm
Torque is almost the same but at a higher rpm on Accord & Element:
CRV: 162 lb-ft @ 3600
Accord, Element: 161 lb-ft @ 4500.
I read an article where this dude stripped out absolutely everything out of his civic hatch that could be removed just to get it as light as possible.
plus if this thing has the same drive train notice the mpg ratings on it the crv and the accord
the accord stomps them both with over 30 mpg. If all the power train components are the same wind drag (and weight )must be a big factor on fuel economy. other than stoking some punks ego why bother.
I know I am going to test drive them all before I make my decision.
A while back I took a trip to car max and test drove a 98 crv then got into a civic (i know its a loosing comparison to the newer vehicles) but it really did drill home the sluggishness of the old crv.
needless to say I'm gonna compare them all while I'd rather have a wagon or van to haul stuff in, but if the accord is ergonomic enough in its refinements and if element doesn't impress with price/functionality/utility I might spring on an accord or crv especially if the torque is screwed up .
surely honda isn't going to let it fly if it wont move especially with one of the biggest complaints on the old cr-v was the lack of power.
hopefully they have it worked out somehow (I hope)
I'd like to think that honda has learned from that mistake and has some other reason for the torque differences than saving a couple of lousy pennies (and looking at prices thats all it is is pennies ) look at the flak that they have caught at taking the double bones off the civic and the subsequent return oF dual wishbone in 2006
Peak torque, you mean. Because, comparing the torque curve in CRV versus Accord/Element engine, it appears to me that Accord/Element version has a stronger torque output from 2000 to 3000 rpm, and CRV version has stronger torque curve from 3000-4000 rpm. Past that, Accord/Element torque curve is stronger hence same peak power is delivered earlier, 5500 rpm versus 6000 rpm.
This only shows that peak torque rpm is an insignificant number to draw conclusions upon.
The review makes it sound like Element has a rough,noisy, and slow ride. "Crude" is another word used in the review, and the suicide doors are more problematic, than functional, IMHO. I'm not convinced that for $16-21K it's such a great value for college students. Most college students don't have that kind of money to blow on a new "lifestyle" vehicle.
I see 2002 2wd auto RAVs go for 18K after rebates in California, 2wd CRVs for about 19K, or Tundra pickups for 16-20K. All of these could be a more refined alternative, depending on one's real needs. Of course, the Element will be different, cool looking, with a little more functionality for some people, and then price or crudeness doesn't matter.
So he didn't like the engine noise, and he complained about hard seats. He seems to me like an old newspaper auto "journalist" who measures things by the Buick standard.
I'll wait until I can read a real review and drive it myself. :P
Face it, the Element's a cheap trucklet for the "gotta have it" crowd. Certain sacrifices were made (it was designed to be cheap, slow, and loud) to keep the cost down. If Honda had tried to build a plusher, more-powerful Element for $25K, exactly who would buy it, looking like it does?
Think of the Element as a Honda version of the Jeep Wrangler and don't take it personally if someone says it's less-refined than a Civic.
Bob
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_042033
I have no problem with someone disliking the Element, but Jim Mateja is not one of the respected opinions of the auto world. *roll eyes*
BTW, he appeared expecting for a bouncing ball experience instead of a stiffer ride.
He may not have the "respect" of his peers, but his review strikes me as honest and informed, "sideways balance" not withstanding.
Then again, somebody could come along and claim the Element is the end-all, be-all of autodom, and I still wouldn't be impressed by it. It's a Suzuki built by Honda that lacks any off-road ability.
Anything else?
Anyways, the new posts are all interesting (except the one with the Aztek having a V-6, I'm glad no one responded to that), but I agree with the latest review. It's not like Wardlaw's review of the new Accord at all (i.e. unnecessarily harsh).
Then again, somebody could come along and claim the Element is the end-all, be-all of autodom, and I still wouldn't be impressed by it. It's a Suzuki built by Honda that lacks any off-road ability.
Remember kids, hate leads to suffering.
Now imagine that engine in the Element. Or maybe in the Acura CR-V.
-juice
I think there is some room for a product in between, though an Accord wagon would be just right.
-juice
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/73408/article.html
Here's the larger image
http://decagon.interserver.net/~hondasuv/user/Varmint/Element pics/CRVElement.gif
Did Edmunds and thecarconnection.com test drive 2 different vehicles?!
I thought the target was the young crowd?
this info makes it look more like the crv crowd
this review does seem better than the other and definitely more encouraging other than this news about pricing and trim levels
Likewise, I looked at a CR-V LX and the asking price was close to 22K - ABS isn't even available on the LX CR-V.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
-mike
Maybe Mateja just didn't "get it."
Ropedart, The Element isn't meant to be an off-road vehicle. It's targeted at youth who like outdoor activities, so it's really intended to get you to the bottom of the ski resort or the biking trail. It has AWD so you can traverse slippery conditions... this is not a mountain climbing vehicle. You can call it a poseur vehicle if you want, but Honda hasn't tried to make this car out to be a Jeep Wrangler competitor.
On another note, I can't think of another vehicle that could carry that much STUFF in the same price range. A base Xterra begins where a loaded Element ends, so I suppose they're almost comparable... but again, the Xterra is a truck.
I know it doesn't appeal to a lot of you here, but for people like me and my wife, it's very appealing. It can carry a whole lot of stuff, or our dogs, yet still get good gas mileage. Frankly, there isn't a truck that can compare on fuel efficiency, so we'll be comparing the Element with other small cute-utes and some of the larger compact wagons like the Jetta Wagon.
Here is another CR-V variation for the European market. Check it out.
The Edmunds review is very encouraging. The reviewer wrote that the Element does not lose much performance with the auto as compared to a stick. That surprises me.
I have shopped Xterra's as well and they have their appeal but aside from being inexpensive and SUV-like I don't think that Xterra and Element are very comparable.
The Xterra has good cargo space but is slow and gets horrible fuel economy ( a bad combo IMO )and it handles like a garbage truck.
The Element, while it will have merely adequate power at least it will be among the best handling utility vehicles if the Edmunds review is any indication.
I see variations of about 10 ft-lbs, with each engine carrying the advantage at different rpm. That's not huge, but you could feel the difference.
The Element is better at very low rpm, which will maybe be good to pull that weight during relaxed driving. And the Millenials won't mind revving really high to get that peak torque.
XTerras are as unrefined as older pickups. The drive is just awful IMO. I would hope the Element would have a far more refined ride.
For a real world price reference, fitzmall.com's cheapest XTerra 4x4 V6 is $21,012, and that is very skimpy with the options (no ABS, cruise, power, keyless), or roughly like an Element DX at several grand less.
Plus, I loved the styling on the original XTerra, but Nissan put these ugly glasses on the new one, so it looks kinda "geeky" now. They ruined it.
-juice
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/49774/page022.html
"Yanya" is kind of a goofy name, but they've taken it one step further with the convertible treatment.
much of the pitch was affordability
and now it appears that the ex will be quite close to an lx crv 2 or 4wd
with abs and alloys being the "major" differences
its just puzzling
BTW, that review wasn't bad at all, even calling it peppy.
-juice
He basically said Honda is way underestimating the market for this car (his term) and that it will jump demographics beyond the target like the new Beetle did.
I think he's right. I've got a wife and two young kids and based on what I know so far am ready to buy one. Only concerns I have is whether it is just too slow or too small.
Anyone know the dimensions of the rear with the seats in place? Tough to tell from pictures, but might be OK.
Thanks and great info from all the posts.
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/243/auto/Utilitarian_box_puts_the_adventurous_in_their_Element+.shtmlone works:
Hey. Who has experience with buying a first run car from Honda or other brands?
Do you suppose minor glitches might be common in the first batch of Elements?
I know it's a Honda but still, I have read here at Edmunds that the Acura MDX was a bit glitchy at first.
Hmm. Too bad the stick/AWD does not come out till 5/03. May have to settle on another configuration.
http://www.newstrove.com/content/suv/
and please limit your quotes to a paragraph or two so we keep the copyright lawyers happy.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
They did the same thing with the RSX's backseat - 3 people can actually squeeze back there, but they placed a plastic try in the center to effectively prevent that.
I remember reading reviews of the pilot where the only thing the author could slam on it was the column shifter blocking the stereo controls.
while at first it seems picky. it at least gives the impression the reviewer had actually sat in the vehicle long enough and put enough thought into it to actually find a point to complain about.
instead of just scanning it and moving on to the next article they were going to write
many of the auto reviews these days just give bland descriptions that could have easily been lifted from company press releases or interior photos
( we all can see pics of these wheels on the net or at shows, but only a select few are allowed inside, or even better behind the wheels until the official release)
I like seeing honesty rather than stuff that appears quite similar to product placement.
if it's sweet call it sweet, if it stinks or is cheap say so
if you notice something interesting that honda hasn't already said or isn't readily noticeable please by all means spill the beans
(the low body roll comments are interesting, as are the rear seats lack of comfort)
this is the direct link to the boston site cut and paste http://www.boston.com/cars/automobilia/
I find the DX deal a form of bait and switch. Yes Honda wants to sell mostly loaded EXs. Dangle the cheap base model you never buy. The lack of a LX model irritates me. I could deal with an DX. The AC and cruise installation would be manageable. Even I see the sunroof is burned into every Element. Just get a hack saw and open it up. The most disturbing thing is the lack of standards ABS on a thing this heavy. You need all the help you can get to stop it safely.
I do not want to see Element pricing getting into somebody elses V6 territory. You will get a case of "buyer regret". Everytime you see an Xterra, XL-7, Sante Fe, VUE, Tribute/Escape, whiz by you are thinking U ripped yourself off. Or if Honda upgrades later you won't mind. I think if you pay more than $19K you are a fashion victim.
It was nice to aim low (age wise) but the success of the El will hinge again with boomers, yuppies, GenXers. Honda will not and should not admit it is a BIG BOX DELIVERY VAN. Road trip you bet. Road trip to big box stores like Costco, Ikea, Walmart, Home Depot, ToysRus. Don't pop the youth storyline.
It is true the Xterra is rough but that is part of its macho appeal. The rough ride can have a visceral joy to it. Perhaps car reviewers have spent too much time in Buicks. Its suspension is crude but it can take punishment. It can go where the Element can't go. So dude there's bragging rights. On the other hand the CRV suspension could be wrecked by just roadkill.
You can sleep in the back of an Xterra.