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I just got nearly nailed three times within 10 seconds. I was driving up a street alongside campus, approaching an intersection with a red light. Half a block before the light, there was a car trying to parallel park. That street is almost two lanes wide plus parking (only counts as one though), so I did the normal thing and drove around him. As I was passing him he gave up on trying to park without warning and zoomed back into the street, sending me swerving into the opposing lane (which was empty). I know he was parking and not de-parking because I saw him start the whole parallel parking process. He had plenty of room and signaled before parking, but not before coming back into traffic.
So I got back in the lane behind him. A second later, a car zoomed out of a driveway on the left and turned into my lane between the first guy and I. I braked hard and THEN the driver noticed me and she looked stunned for a second as she completed the "merge."
Now the three of us get to that stoplight (half a block - a few seconds from the beginning) and we're all making right turns. The light's green (no arrow, just green), so the first car and second car go, and I have my signal on and I'm about to as well. But a truck coming from the opposite direction with no signal starts out going through the intersection, then decides to turn left towards me. I'm driving uncharacteristically slowly after the first two incidents so a third round of sudden braking comes easily to me.
I frown, make the turn, and get all the way up to the 25mph speed limit in first before shifting and then I feel ok again.
Show me a rule book that it applies to people who are speeding. E.g., "All cars speeding on the highway with two or more lanes in the same direction should keep to the right" Then in the another rule, "Thou shall not speed." LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BACK to the stories!
We saw a VERY amusing one. I'm pretty sure she was inconsiderate, she was most definitely dangerous, but also very entertaining at the same time. Coming out to my car in the parking lot of a building supply store, I noticed this woman storming towards her car which was parked next to mine. Don't know why, but I could tell she wasn't about to check if it was clear, she was going to back out of her spot as soon as she started to turn the key in the igntion, so I sat and waited. Sure enough, she blasts backwards out of the spot, scaring the heck out of the unsuspecting pedestrain walking to their car behind her. But she wasn't done. She blasted towards the upper end of the parking lot, and I said to the wife, "I bet she wants to turn left onto the street up there." But the upper exit from the parking lot comes out where the road is divided with a raised concrete median. no left possible. I cruise to the lower lot exit, and sure enough, she comes blasting across my nose, having been forced to turn right. BUT...
She finds herself stuck behind some cars stopped by the delivery entrance in the back of the store, waiting for a big rig to back in. She flipps on her signal like she's going to go around them, then realizes that there's no place to go around them other than to go onthe wrong side of the again-divided road. So she has to wait, impatiently leaning to her left in an attempt to see dayilight. But we're not done yet...LOL
The divided road goes past a shopping plaza with multiple entrances. Tow entrances before the main entrance that has a traffic light. One delivery truck and a car are in front of her. She ALMOST dives into the first entrance, whipping back to the left at the last second. Then she goes in the second one and absolutely tears to the road right in front of the stores. The wife remarks about how she's driving like a maniac and I decide we HAVE to see what the rush is. So I get up to the light, and when it changes, I pull into the shopping center and slowly drive straight to the store fronts and a stop sign. The speed bumps in the lane across the store fronts have done their job and here she comes... right across in front of me again. I turn left behind to continue watchingthe spectacle and she seems to be done. She comes to a stop sign in front of the grocery store an puts on a turn signal. Ah, she's parking... wait... no she's not. She floors it as she makes the left into the aisle and start speeding towards the front of the lot. She can't be going back out onto the road can she?? Another left at the top of the lot, then a right and she's back at the traffic light that she would have already been through had she not dove into the shopping center. And she makes the right at the light to continue one. Up ahead, I see a delivery truck ready to make a left across her path into the grocery store, and she shows no signs of stopping. She missed the back end of the truck by less than a foot!. Then for the dramatic finish, the road comes to a T intersection with a traffic light at a 5 lane road. With no hesitation she runs the red light and makes a right. The approach to the light is uphill so it's VERY difficult to see traffic coming from your left ot make a right on red, even if you stopped. She must have put the pedal to the metal, becaue by the time I reached the light, she was nowhere in sight.
So as I said, entertaining, but VERY scary at the same time!!
I'm curious how she explained all those marks on the car when she got home.....
Nastiest noise I've heard was when the unisured and non-handicapped driver came into a one way parking lot with angled parking spots the wrong way and tried to back the cargo van into the handicapped spot next to me while I was sitting in the car. She missed making it into the extra wide spot and he rear corner caught me just at the front of the rear door, worked it's way though the frunt door panel, took the right side mirror off, and just clipped the front quarter.
I learned my lesson too... She said her insurance info was at home and that she'd call me with it. Then she called me and tried to get me to change the time of the accident sinc what she actually did was to run home and call and insurance company to get the insurance she didn't have.
Always nice to be asked to commit insurance fraud. She then skipped town. She better stay in that undisclosed location.
That's why when we travel my wife and I spend a surprising amount of time watching others. "What do you suppose he's doing?" is a common question. "Watch this - here's another planning wizard!" as a bone-head runs up the right lane at high speed and then pins himself behind the truck that we all are in the left lane to pass. People are funny.
Brake lights on a single car on a wide-open freeway are almost always an indication of a mistake, usually an inexperienced or inattentive driver. They make for cheap entertainment. Then there's the one who passed you like the wind a mile ago, but now is in the center lane running at 5 under. "Bet he's on the phone..." as we roll past. Yup - 9 times outta 10, lol!
I also used to play a variation of this as a game when my kids were very small (to keep them from asking: ARE WE THERE YET!!???
It is amazing that those that defend LLCing don't acknowledge that LLCing really impedes traffic and even more important encourages bunching. So if any little thing happens in a bunch.... well if they don't get impeding traffic, why would they get DANGER in bunching??
Also even under the best conditions it takes between 7--13 seconds to pass another vehicle. So all you have to do to figure out how long you will have dangerous bunching is to count the stack of cars and multiply it by 7-13 seconds.
One of course should be prepared to use these procivities to ones' advantage.
They will mail a letter to the offender letting them know of the observation, this can be helpful in the future because it documents their bad driving behavior.
It's only a matter of time before they cause serious harm and danger to other drivers and the archived letter will come in handy as paper trail for the DA.
I would take issue with this statement. By reducing the efficient flow of traffic at various speeds, LLCers cause local areas of congestion, and congestion increases the risk of accidents for everyone in the congested area.
I have a feeling that this phone-in-a-bad-driver report is just an automated system, where you call in, and either say or punch in the license number, and then a computer generates an automated form letter to send to the "offending" party.
By extrapolation where four lanes of interstate exist only the right lane should be used to keep the other lanes open for passing at rush hour. All so that those who want their lane open for their speeding can have it?
How many cars max can flow past a point at 62 mph (truck governed speed someone said) in one lane? Typically I 70 is two lanes through much of Ohio and Indiana and Illinois.
If the other lane is used for 66 and above, how many more cars can go past a point per hour?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So I am guessing it is a good thing that most of Law Enforcement makes the distinction (however they codify it) that only sworn officers that have observe the violation can do the enforcement.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Only my car was within the space leaving the trailer in the aisle. I locked the car where it was, disconnected the trailer and hand towed it to a spot reserved for just cars.
Is space saving kosher?
This inane LLC discussion is a great example of why the roads are so screwed up today. One side are a few who are not content just driving the speed limit, but need to enforce their views on everyone else. On the other side there are those who's hurry is more important than everyone else's hurry. Neither will yield to the other, and traffic bunches up. The rest of us who just want to clear away from the mob are stuck with this goofy group of people who seem content to drive right next to the most dangerous thing on the road, another car at 65 mph, and as a result they BOTH conspire to plug up the road.
Neither bunch is any better, safer or righter than the other!
On the other hand, though, if cars use all lanes *without regard to their speed of travel*, then (1) rolling roadblocks tend to form and (2) cars moving at rates of speed at the higher end of the speed distribution are forced to change lanes repeatedly, pass on the right, etc., if they want to maintain their desired speed.
These circumstances make the roads more dangerous and accidents more likely to occur.
The solution, then, is for drivers to balance *efficiency* vs. *safety* by *traveling in the rightmost lane moving at their individual desired speed* and to *move right whenever circumstances allow*, and *especially* to *move right to get out of the way of faster-traveling cars as soon as they can reasonably and safely do so.*
As far as I am concerned, I don't care if a guy camps in the left lane as long as he gets out of my way in time to prevent blocking my coming through at my desired rate of speed, or at least makes a reasonable effort to do so within the constraints of what he can do given traffic conditions. And I don't consider myself to be a left lane camper if there's no one I'm holding up by staying in the left lane.
Not that I stay in the left lane. I generally drive as far right as traffic allows me to given my rate of speed. Even if I'm 15 to 25 over, I still move to the right-hand lane if it's clear.
I think if everyone did this, traffic would move much more efficiently, even--no, *especially* when traffic volumes are high.
Are you saying that LLCers above the speed limit are enforcing their views on others. Or are they just expecting use all the lanes of the interstate at a reasonable speed albeit above the limit in most cases we're describing? :Roll eyes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, keep in mind that even if you're camping at 5 mph over the speed limit and getting a pile of cars behind you, at some point back there you're forcing people to drop below the speed limit. Reaction time lags, as people come up on the cars in front of them, slow down and overcompensate, will only exacerbate further back in the line. Plus, you then have a bottleneck as those drivers try to duck to the right to get around you, forcing people in the right lane to slow down, and causing a backup there as well.
Essentially, if you don't want to pass other drivers, you have no need to be in the left lane, unless you're getting over to let entering traffic merge at an on-ramp, or you have a left exit coming up (rare on an interstate). What's the sense of even BEING in the left lane, if you want to go slow? You can do that much more safely for everyone involved, in one of the right lanes.
"As long as an LLCer is doing at least the speed limit, then the only congestion would be caused by drivers who want to speed, and they are typically the ones doing the tailgating. So again, it isn't the LLCer whose creating the hazard, it's the speeder whose in such a he11fire hurry that they think they have to follow 1/2 a car length behind at 70 mph to get their message across."
bottgers, it's still the LLCer determining for everyone else what a reasonable rate of speed is, and playing the enforcer.
This is particularly true if the LLCer is in fact speeding himself; he's basically saying, 'I have decreed that 5+ is as much as anyone is allowed to speed, and will take it upon myself to prevent anyone exceeding this "speeding" limit I have wisely decreed.'
The fact is the LLCer doensn't KNOW why the speeder is speeding. He could be just an impatient person, he could have a what most people would think would be a very good reason. That is neither here nor there.
The LLCer has no basis or standing to make that judgment for anyone else, especially if he's speeding himself.
Or are you suggesting that it's ok for people to LLC at the speed limit?
I don't believe I've ever seen anyone "defend LLCing". Explaining that some activities interpreted as LLCing are not really that, maybe, but not defending actual LLCing.
...why would they get DANGER in bunching??
The "danger" you reference comes from a combination of LLCing and LLVIPing. Not either alone. One is not forced to tailgate an LLCer.
However, I fully agree, that sometimes some acts might be misinterpreted as LLCing that really aren't. If you're over there in the left lane and every blessed vehicle on the road is passing you AND you don't have a left exit coming up, than there's nothing else to call it, but Left Lane Camping. And if you're pacing the vehicle beside you, you're not only LLCing, but you're creating a rolling roadblock, because then you're not only hogging the left lane, but you're preventing people from passing you on the right. That should be a shootable offense.
Me? I'll take strict enforcement of the duty for slower traffic to keep right. I'd also like to see some action in enforcing the law against crossing solid white lines, particularly at ramps. Seems like most drivers don't even know what a solid white line means! :mad:
You are absolutely correct and I employ that for that exact reason.
My only point was that, if that entails increased risk, it took 2 to tango.
And, more to the point, it's a gross oversimplification to lump all "cars in the right lane that are going slower than I am" as LLCers.
I'll certainly grant, however, that a real LLCer is an impediment, creating more risk and generally....inconsiderate!
...if you're pacing the vehicle beside you...
This is maddening, true. But often, it is just a slow pass. Sometimes, a maddening, excrutiating, glacial pass. But this begs the question...how fast is one obligated to go on a pass? If someone wants to go 62 and comes up on someone doing 60 and does not want to go 64, are they entitled? Or must they wait 10 minutes until a slow pass will not impede a 65er coming up in the left?
If I'm passing, I own the lane. Whoever is behind just needs to wait. When I'm past I'll get over. How long do I have? Well, that's another common sense issue. If I jump into a line of traffic moving faster than me to pass someone, I'll match speed with them, so as not to slow them down. If I'm basically alone on the road, I want at least 4-5 mph differential or better, otherwise I am prolonging the pass and adding some danger to the person I'm passing. In between those two situations is a continuum that requires common sense to balance delaying the pass with unnecessary speed.
What I HATE is when I'm driving on a wide-open freeway and some pea brain comes up from the distance far behind and matches my speed, then proceeds to pace me, usually in my blind spot. JUST PASS ME!! Grrrr!!
Last week I was driving my gf's Jetta instead of my Celica to Cleveland and was wondering the exact same thing. According to the speedo, I was doing my usual "cruise" speed, which is around 6-8 over the limit. But everyone and everyone's mom was flying by me as if I was doing five below the limit.
I would answer that, so long as there is no one behind the passer he should feel entitled to pass at any speed; but if a vehicle is approaching him from behind at a substantial speed differential, it should be incumbent upon him to complete his pass with as much alacrity as possible--even if this means momentarily increasing his speed above his desired point.
Of course, a good, courteous, and aware driver would not pull out to make a slow pass in front of upcoming traffic going substantially faster than his anticipated passing speed. Once he's out there, however, if he is not comfortable with increasing his speed, he should slow down, drop back behind the vehicle he was passing and wait for the left lane to clear before attempting to pass again.
Keep Right Except To Pass. Slower Traffic Keep Right are the two variations usually seen. So from a single lane road to mulitiple lanes ( 2-7 lanes for example) the only one not under partial practical obligation to keep right is the one in the FAR right lane. EVERY other lane is by definition of the law; negotiable. This might sound a tad confusing,. For example, in CA, on one lane each way roads, the law states that a slower moving vehicle shall use the right side of the road (i.e., turn outs, pads etc ) when impeding 5 or more vehicles behind. So on mulitiple lane roads, i.e.. causeways, expressways, freeways, highways, interstates, etc the left and right side is for EMERGENCY USE ONLY. This means the right lane is exempt from moving right.
As a practical matter, if I am in the so called middle lanes, I will move right if I am impeding traffic. A sure sign that one is impeding traffic is YOU are being passed on the left and the right. An aware driver would not let the situation get to this, but that seems to be a level of difficulty and over load of information for advocates of LLCing.
So a so called LLCer who wants to go whatever speed he wishes regardless of ANYONE ELSE really DOES have a place on public roads! It is called the FAR right lane. ( Or, his other left)
As a practical matter again if I come upon a LLCer who is using the incorrect lane (should be a RLCer RIGHT LANE CAMPER) then I will pass on the (other ) LEFT as prescribed by practicality.
Agreed. My rule of thumb is (and this extends beyond this particular situation) that if my move will cause the other driver to slow, then I would not make it. But this only applies within reason, i.e., if they are within 10 car lengths or so.
...complete his pass with as much alacrity as possible...
But you beg the question. Why is the slow passer (still at or above the speed limit) more obligated to speed up momentarily than the faster passer (from further back) is obligated to slow down momentarily?
In practice, when I come upon just such a situation, I come up (assertively, as andre said) but not aggressively (too close) and wait for the slow passer to pass. I do not feel I have more rights than he/she does. Only LLVIP'ers have such super rights :=)
...if he is not comfortable with increasing his speed, he should slow down, drop back behind the vehicle he was passing and wait for the left lane to clear before attempting to pass again.
Only if he/she is out for a Sunday drive (IMO). If he/she is actually driving somewhere, he/she would be totally nuts to do that.
Not to mention that, if he/she actually did that...slow down with a LLVIPer behind, they would be assumed to be retaliating and probably bring on road rage.
As for people who wait until the last possible second before pulling out in front of me, to pass the car in front of them at maybe 1 mph or whatever, my question is this...Is your time THAT much more valuable than mine, that you can't wait the maybe 3-5 seconds it would take for me to pass you BEFORE pulling that maneuver, which could easily hold me up for a minute or more?
A corollary of this is when someone actually goes through the effort to run through a stop sign or red light to make a right turn onto the road in front of me. There could be NOTHING behind me, for as far as the eye can see, and if they had waited maybe 5-10 seconds, at best, I would be past them and out of their hair, forever. But no...they feel the need to get in front of me, slow me down, and waste MY time. In situations like this, I've just gotten to the point that if I can do it safely, I'll just blow past them. If they're going to pull out in front of me that close and go that slow, as far as I'm concerned, they're no different than a tree that fell in the road, or a pothole that's to be avoided. They're an obstacle, and not another moving vehicle that has any sort of right to be there. After all, that's one reason we have stop signs and traffic lights. You'll get your turn...trust me. Just be patient.
I myself still stubbornly use the left-turn blinker to signal "Please Move!" in spite of the fact that no one knows what it means, in conjunction with "light" tailgating (around three car lengths). You gotta start somewhere.
If I do get to the point that I need to flash my lights, during the day I'll turn the low-beams on-off, or just the opposite at night. Somebody has to irritate me royally before I'll put a high beam on somone (like if they dive and swoop in front of me and then suddenly slow me down for no reason). But even there, usually I'll hit the horn before I hit the brights.
Now we get into the inefficiency of the "right lane system" in general. Keep in mind that the vast majority of entrances and exits on a limited access road ("freeway") are on the far right. If everyone stays to the right except to pass, then access to this lane is unduely limited for those drivers entering and exiting the freeway. I would contend that it is preferrable to use the right-most center lane as the standard lane of travel, thereby easing traffic congestion in the right lane where all traffic MUST pass eventually. The far left is still reserved (primarily) as a passing lane, while other center lanes (if any) are secondary standard/transitional lanes. Now, if the road is a two-laner, the "right-most center" lane is still the right lane....
It would be far more efficient, from an overall continuity of traffic flow (not speed, but flow) perspective, if these roadways were set up to allow entrance on one side and exit on the other. The drawback is that the "fast lane" concept would be eliminated, but that is of little importance in terms of overall utility.
Nah, I don't think so.
Here, here! The absolute worst times I have seen this happen is approaching traffic lights on reds. You'll get these little passenger cars coming up in one lane with 3 vehicles in front, but decide that since the other lane only has one (or none) autos, that is the preferred lane. That driver didn't pay too much attention to the vehicle behind.... a tractor-trailer... and whips into the lane on a solid white. I bet that is so terribly annoying for truckers, regardless of the danger involved.
Hallelujah! That statement should be added to very driver's manual in the country. It is common sense and common courtesy.... both of which are anything but common these days.
I took an 11,000 mile trip back in 1999 driving my 1969 C20 from Anchorage, AK to Helix, OR to Douglas, WY, to Rapid City, SD, to St. Cloud, MN, to Columbus, OH, to Cambridge Springs, PA, back to Columbus and finally back to Fairbanks, AK. 27 days..... MANY long days on the road. I drove at 65 mph the whole way to maximize time vs. mpg. Once I hit the lower 48, I was going pretty slow compared to most other vehicles and I rarely had to pass. Through Chicago and pretty much east of there, traffic was constantly what I would consider moderate and sometimes headed toward the heavy side. When I did have to pass, I matched speed or I didn't pass. After all, what's 1-2 mph? It was often times easier to slow down a bit than to try and add 20 mph to my speed and squeeze in amongst cars who already did not give each other appropriate space for 75-85 mph.
It was so easy and obvious, and yet you should have seen all the drivers that would raise Cain about me getting in ahead of them. Apparently they had some unreasonable fear about a 30-year-old pickup with a homemade camper shell driving in front of them for 30-40 seconds. :confuse:
Of course, I have to stop trying to make sense. obviously that first sentence could have stopped at the word "thinking". I should have realized the futility of the thought at that point and surrendered!
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