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So while one might be self rightous camping in the fast lane at the speed limit or under and this might help ones sense of vigilantism and self righteousness, for my .02 cents I likeand follow the policy of not being DEAD right!
Does anyone else get the impression that the drivers that are really, really slow (going like, 20 in a 25 or 30 zone, where everyone does their usual 5-10 above), are the first to go through lights that are turning red?
They never stop for yellows; they plod on through, and the light changes to red before they're all the way through. I can't tell if it's just old people... I think I've seen a wide variety though. But they just won't vary their speeds, neither to match the societal norm, nor to slow down for a yellow. You'd think they were in a hurry?
They never stop for yellows...
Stop? For yellows???? Good grief, why would anyone do THAT? :=)
...the light changes to red before they're all the way through.
What's wrong with that? Unless you'll be stuck in the intersection at that point and creating gridlock (a common occurence in Manhattan traffic), there's no problem as long as you get into the intersection before the red and get out the other side before cross traffic starts up.
Yellows are to let you know what's coming as you approach the intersection and judge whether you get in before it turns red. Without the yellow (as it was in the old days) folks would be going thru red lites all the time, couldn't help it.
The people I'm talking about are going through lights that turn yellow before they're even close. As in, lights that turn red right after they've entered the intersection. Maybe that's not too unusual, but like you, I would've expected slow drivers to err on the side of stopping early. It's like they're in no hurry when they're plodding along at 20mph, but they don't have the time to stop at a light...
Not that everyone doesn't do this. I've just always thought of it as one of those traffic laws, like speed limits or jaywalking, that people are flexible about following.
If CA is like any other state, then I admit to a little distress. It is pretty clear that so called "Red Light" running is very dangerous even if T bone accidents are very rare, but can be very deadly and injurious. So while it can be said the laws are clear, the realities are: they are not.
An example, if I am stopped at a intersection and get the green light to go and in fact do go and a red light runner hits me or I hit him, a falacious no brainer assumption would be it was the red light runners fault. and they bear the full consequences for violation and financial compensation.
In fact, there is a law on the books that says that it is illegal to enter the intersection if it is "unsafe" to do so. So in fact I can be held up to fully responsible for acting on the green light!!!!!!
Another example; if the red light runner does not have insurance,etc, etc,. the CA law allows that person to sue. (the so called deep pockets). It is indeed an EVERY DAY occurence that even though they were "fully" at fault and drive without benefit of MANDATORY insurance; they walk away with insurance money.
I am sure glad I was not on the front lines in WW2, I don't know crap about baseball, even though as a kid I got to see Willie Mays at work in center field more times than folks can imagine.
I'm in shapiro's corner on this one. The Acura driver's actions (as described) were definitely inconsiderate.
As for sailor's defense of pushing the limits of yellow lights, perhaps he was just attempting to generate controversy, but there is a safety aspect to consider.
When I first moved to the Puget Sound region, I was warned of red light runners, but I didn't realize the full implications until one day when I stopped for a yellow light. As I slowed, a Mitsubishi, coming from behind me, swerved around my vehicle and went through the intersection on red. Around here stopping for a yellow could get you rear-ended. (For those out there who like to second guess other posters: I could have entered the intersection on yellow, barely, but would have exited on red).
Now, whenever I "stretch" a yellow light, I check my mirror to see if anyone follows me through the intersection. Frequently, two or three cars go through behind me. Once, one of them was a school bus!!! Stopping for yellow is definitely inconsiderate to the drivers behind you who intend to run the light on red.
james
Well, it was probably misinformation. Running a red light means passing the crosswalk line (entering the intersection) after the light turns red. It's not illegal to be in the intersection when the light turns red. For example, waiting to make a left turn would frequently lead to a red light ticket if this were not so.
State laws govern this and who knows what any state would do, some do not believe in science for goodness sake! But this is the legality situation, in general.
... I've actually seen...people pulled over for going through on a yellow that turned red...
They probably were speeding or committing some other infraction.
I don't think anyone is disputing that here.
...it is illegal to enter the intersection if it is "unsafe"...
This is a general catch-all that applies to almost everything. "Unsafe driving", in the judgement of a cop, is always ticketable. But we're talking about specific laws.
And I think we're all in agreement that having no insurance is inconsiderate.
You forgot to mention how unsafe small cars were :=)
There is rarely a need to generate controversy here :=)
Obviously, there's a safety aspect with respect to red lights. The point was what the definition of the violation was, period.
Stopping for yellow is definitely inconsiderate to the drivers behind you who intend to run the light on red.
I don't think they warrant being considerate to.
OTOH, stopping for a yellow when the following car can likely pass safely and legally thru an intersection behind you is definitely inconsiderate IMO.
Of course, just like waiting for slow passers, one must respect other's threshold of safety and also be prepared for it.
So the Acura driver should NOT have jumped/cut in front. He should have not tailgated. KShapiro could/should have just let him cut, etc. etc. A pass while probably legal and doable MIGHT not have been the correct choice in this instance. It could have turn out differently (good or bad, ruffled feathers or no ruffled feathers, )but obviously it did not. So in that sense; no harm, no foul.
I don't think anyone is disputing that here. "...
A gold star for you on the cut and past of PART of my quote, but you left out the real meaning, as the lead in to the next sentence!!
"..."So while it can be said the laws are clear, the realities are: they are not."
I didn't see any, that was my point. If there was any 'real meaning' that is relevant, you could clarify, if you choose.
Traffic should stop before entering an intersection or crosswalk
for a yellow light unless the vehicle is too close to the intersection
to stop safely. A yellow arrow means the signal is changing from
green to red, and gives the driver a chance to stop safely.
(NJ Driver Manual)
So the law, in NJ at least, is biased towards having the motorist stop under yellow BEFORE entering the intersection, the only excuse for not doing so being that the motorist did not have time to stop before entering the intersection.
I am not saying that people drive like this or should, or that this law makes sense. As li_sailor suggested, it would make most people making left turns across traffic guilty of moving violations. (Edited to add: actually that's not true: one could enter the intersection under GREEN to make a left turn, and if the light turned yellow after he was already in the intersection, there'd be no violation; but if he entered the intersection under yellow to make a left turn when he could have stopped, it *would* be a violation. At least as I read it....)
But I did want to point out that the law is there (in at least one case), and by my reading of this law, if a law enforcement officer saw a car enter an intersection under yellow where it could have stopped prior to entering it, it would be within his discretion to write a ticket.
Oregonboy - you got it right.
ruking - That's your interperation. Mine was it was done intentionally. Of course, I could have plowed into his rear-end also.
Note: "I wasn't mad". I was exercising my legal option to pass a slower driver in the oncoming lane when there was no traffic in a designated passing zone.
"A pass while probably legal".
Take the work probably out.
"doable MIGHT not have been the correct choice in this instance."
Don't you just love back-seat drivers?
"If it were me"
I don't buy it the "if it were me" routine. I did nothing illegal. The other person needed some perspective. The type of argument you are making is this: If I cut someone off and the person I cut off get's out of the car and beats me with a baseball bat, it's my fault for provoking him. Right? They should throw me in jail instead of him.
Green means go
Yellow means go faster.
Thats how it seems to me in and around the greater Philly area. Now back to my cheesesteak, whiz with.
Regards,
Kyle
"If it were me"
I don't buy it the "if it were me" routine. I did nothing illegal. The other person needed some perspective. The type of argument you are making is this: If I cut someone off and the person I cut off get's out of the car and beats me with a baseball bat, it's my fault for provoking him. Right? They should throw me in jail instead of him. "
That might be your conclusion and intrepretation . It is NOT mine. So really, now that you "gave him a lesson" do you really think he LEARNED anything? I am guessing his intrepretation was the same as yours: WHAT AN A......H....
I didn't see any, that was my point. If there was any 'real meaning' that is relevant, you could clarify, if you choose. "
That is what you might think, but it is not true! And why would I want to clarify? For your further mis characterization and misintrepretation? You are already good at that stand alone.
for a yellow light unless the vehicle is too close to the intersection
to stop safely.
Yes, that's good advice, generally. In no way does that indicate that being in an intersection while the light turns red is a red light violation.
Obviously, the purpose of the yellow light is to provide timing info...as you approach the intersection, you must have something to base your decision on whether you will be legal or not. If you posit that entering the intersection just as it turns yellow (impossible to avoid) and not being clear before it turns red is ticketable, then yellow lights are useless in this regard.
But I did want to point out that the law is there...
What law?
...if a law enforcement officer saw a car enter an intersection under yellow where it could have stopped prior to entering it, it would be within his discretion to write a ticket.
If unsafe action was involved, this is always true. However, there is no basis for writing a ticket for going thru a yellow or for being in the intersection when the light turns red, by themselves.
You are already good...
Please limit your posts to the subject matter, which does not include me, personally. As per TH agreement, thanks.
Then you should take the first step and leave me out of it ."As per TH agreement, thanks"
How long have you been here in TH? 5 1/2 years? And you still don't understand the difference?
Let's stick to the topic, please.
"What does a green light mean?"
"It means I'm gonna have to yell at Frannie or she's gonna sit there all day!"
"What does a yellow light mean?"
"It means Naomi's gonna speed up and try to kill us both!"
"What does a red light mean?"
"It means Ellen's gonna fix her hair in the rear view mirror!"
I'd really like to keep this topic open for discussion of the insane stuff that people observe out there, but if every subject that comes up is going to turn into "I'm right, you're wrong" and get beat to death in an attempt to prove that, retirement of the topic is an option.
Now, whenever I "stretch" a yellow light, I check my mirror to see if anyone follows me through the intersection. Frequently, two or three cars go through behind me. Once, one of them was a school bus!!! Stopping for yellow is definitely inconsiderate to the drivers behind you who intend to run the light on red.
james "
This might be a tad apples to oranges, but in CA ,what you are describing might be one of the unintended consequences of not preparing to stop on yellow and actually executing a stop before the light turns red. You actually run a higher risk of getting into an accident by complying with the customs, courtesies. conventions, laws, etc. etc. than if you were the borderline scofflaw and speed up during a yellow etc etc.
My perception however is, the laws are fashion around the fed safety standards, BUT states areas etc etc, do have local specialities or peculiarities. I was in a NM ican town at a light guided intersection, trying to make a left hand turn, signalling of course. As some NM icans can attest, a left turn signal arrow can mean YIELD to on-coming traffic before turning left. As a CA ian, a left turn signal arrow means left turns have the right of way!!! Luckily, the on coming NM icans sensed a tourist and stopped to let a "knuckle head" through.
If a light turns yellow as you approach and you determine that you will not enter the intersection before it turns red, stop before the intersection. Otherwise, proceed, with caution.
And if that light has a camera, which means it most likely has a shorter interval just waiting to increase revenue with no regard for safety, then I'm going to punch it to make DAMN sure I get through before I get a picture taken! :shades:
Y'know, one thing that's nice about some of those big old cars from the 70's and 80's, is they had the fuel filler behind the license plate. So you can "forget" to close it back up. i.e., no license plate in the picture! Not that I'm confessing to anything here! :P
Again, from the passage: "...Traffic should stop before entering an intersection or crosswalk for a yellow light unless the vehicle is too close to the intersection to stop safely...."
Nothing about determining whether the light is going to turn red before you enter; it's only about whether there's SPACE to stop before you enter. At least, that's how I read it.
As I re-iterate, it's real easy to be a back-seat driver. If I had to do it again, I would have passed him sooner and faster. :P
Any ways I was driving along on a four lane city street (two lanes in each direction) going slightly over the limit in the right lane. The only other traffic was a dump truck ahead of me in the right lane going much slower than me and a mini van doing the exact same speed as me in the left lane about 5 or 6 car lengths back. As I quickly approached the dump truck I signalled for a lane change and changed lanes. The mini van which was going the exact same speed as me for almost a half mile gunned it. This idiot ran right up on my rear end switched over to the right lane and tried to pass me blowing on his horn. Due to the location of the truck this guy couldn't pass me and when I passed up him he flipped me off.
This guy was going the exact same speed as me until I used my turn signal. Why is it that the turn signal for many is an invitation to speed up so you cannot merge?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have a couple of other pet peeves I'd like to add relating to backing up in inappropriate places. A couple of weeks ago I was bound towards work crossing the Walt Whitman Bridge coming into Philadelphia. I have an E-Z Pass, and as I'm pulling into one of the pass-only lanes, the car in front of me comes to a stop. I guess he didn't have a pass and had gotten into the wrong lane. So he sits there a few seconds even though the gate has risen--with E-Z Pass, they just take your picture and track you down later if you're a scofflaw--then tries to back up. I guess he didn't want the ticket....
Anyway, by then there are two or three cars queued up behind me, no way to back up...the guy blows his horn waves out the window for me to back up...I just put my hands up, like, I CAN'T, dude...finally he takes off.
This all must have taken a couple of minutes, just sitting there.
Another thing I see, which I think is absolutely NUTS--and among the most dangerous things I see people do regularly--is someone backing up in the breakdown lane of an expressway because he missed his exit. Just last week I saw a woman in a late model Nissan minivan backing up on 42/I-76N just past the I-676 interchange, apparently trying to get back to it.
I see the backing up to off-ramps often as well. It is very tempting on open stretches of highway where the next exit is miles upon miles down the road....
What amazes me though, is how poorly many of these folks back! They are going 2 mph in reverse and weaving right,left,right,left..... :confuse: :P
Any ways since the robbers at the Illinois Tollway Authority doubled the tools for non I-PASS users I have been boycotting the tollways.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I was on this windy 4-laner, going up a very steep grade in the midst of a town in BC. I was driving my 1969 Ford Econoline and had a mechnical problem the day before.... my valve stem broke on the intake of the #1 cylinder. I pulled off for the night, pulled apart the cylinder in the morning and ran it off 7 for the last 1000 miles of my trip. But, since it was the #1 cylinder, it really killed the HP of the engine. I had to nurse that puppy like it was a newborn. So, in order to keep it going down the road, I had to manually shift and stay in 1st from 0-30 mph, 2nd from 30-50, and D from 50+. So.... back to the situation.
I am in the right lane, rapidly approaching a dump truck going about 15mph with a full load. There is an 80s F150 in the left lane, rapidly approaching me (at first). The SL on this stretch of road was 80 km/h (~47 mph?) if I recall correctly. I had it in 2nd. As I slowed down behind the dump truck to let the F150 pass, I had to dump it to 1st to keep pulling the grade. If I would have been slowed to less than about 20 mph, I could not have made the hill and would have been stranded or forced to U-turn to the bottom and try again. I figured the F150 would quickly pass, I could hit the left lane, pass, and all would be good. No. The F150 slows to the point that it is barely gaining on me. At this point, it is about 4 car lengths behind of me and I had to make a split-second choice: stay to the right and the van dies, cut to the left and inconvenience the F150. I chose to cut to the left. I signaled, turned in, gave that beast all I could muster to accelerate, and quickly pulled back into the right after passing the dump truck. This guy (driving the F150) comes up next to me, swearing the most colorful expletives in rapid succession - many of which I had never even heard in that context (!), and waving his 1-fingered salute (Canadian style) across 3 kids lined up along the bench seat. I felt sorry for the kids, but I still hold that I made the best decision (even though I was in the wrong) and would have felt apologetic towards the driver if he hadn't responded with such immaturity.
BTW I see that your in Alaska, I spent a few years on what we called "the rock" (AKA Kodiak).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
He probably didn't like you pulling over right in front of him. I think he was right to be upset.
I mean really who knows, he could have very well taken on the Good Sam mantle rather than be a displayer of the one finger signal.
He wasn't passing me and i didn't pull over right in front of him.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I was in the wrong and readily admit that, but he was responsible for his own actions.